Should Religious Symbols be Displayed on Public Property?

Should Religious Symbols be Displayed on Public Property?

Eighty-five percent of Americans claim some form of religious affiliation. The public display of religious symbols, though, is always controversial, whether we’re talking about the Ten Commandments in a courthouse or nativity scenes in a park. In the ongoing debate about religious imagery’s proper place, where do we draw the line between private faith and public religious expression?

Next question in Religion in Society

This content is inappropriate
Loading

Please select the category that most closely reflects your concern about this content, so that we can review it and determine whether it violates Civility 101 or isn't appropriate for some other reason.
Abusing this feature is also a violation of Civility 101.

Explanation:


Regarding Question
Should Religious Symbols be Displayed on Public Property?

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • Naumadd
    Yes, if ...

    If those charged with guardianship over publicly-owned properties not only welcome but encourage the symbols of all religions represented in the United States, giving them equal presentation and allowing no one religion to dominate any other, then yes, religious symbols ought to be displayed on public properties as representative of key influences in American culture.

    Unfortunately, it's unlikely such equal representation on publicly-owned properties by those charged with their guardianship will be welcome or encouraged. As it happens, we do not live in a culture which equally respects all philosophical beliefs and practices. In that view, NO religious symbols ought to be allowed on publicly-owned properties in order to prevent domination by the symbols of Christianity.

    We must encourage equal respect, or we must discourage any representation at all.

    - NaumaddUS October 10, 2008 7:59PM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • CharlieBravo
      Symbols

      Most things humans do are symbolic of something or other. In the U.S. we have ''freedom of religion'', not ''freedom from religion''.

      - CharlieBravoUS October 13, 2008 11:49PM

      Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag Side: Yes

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

      • Naumadd
        A Non-Issue ...

        I used to think that one does indeed have freedom from religion until I realized that we each have a highly individualized religion assembled one piece at a time over the span of our lives. Religion, after all, is simply the practical expression of what one believes and loves and there is an incredible diversity of beliefs and loves at any one time among the collected individuals of the United States and of the world.

        It is now my belief that "freedom from religion" is a non-issue because one certainly has a religion, whether or not one calls it that. The name of one's practice need not be called a religion, certainly not in the same sense the word "religion" is popularly used. Suffice to call it one's personal "way of life". No, "freedom from religion" is rather nonsensical out of context. In truth, it neither exists nor is desirable to anyone who loves their life and wishes for it to continue. What one has, wants, needs and must rightly demand in the United States, and I dare say everywhere there are individual human beings, is freedom from the forced involuntary intrusion of the religion of another to replace your own. I, you and every human being must be free to adopt whatever religion or "way of life according to my beliefs" we like. What neither of us has the right to do is to force our respective religions onto the religion freely chosen by each other or another. This is freedom of speech, freedom of choice, freedom to believe and practice what one wishes provided we respect that freedom in others. This is precisely why these two - freedom of speech and freedom of religion - are grouped together in the way they are. They are equal to free will with respect to the free will of others.

        What we have and must have is freedom to live respectfully according to our own choices. Religion, in its broader meaning, is simply the manner in which one lives what life one has until one no longer has it.

        There is only one way to be "free of religion" and that is to no longer have life. Nevertheless, the way to be free of the religion of another is for them to be respectful of your private choices, and you of theirs.

        - NaumaddUS October 16, 2008 7:54PM

        Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

        Thank You for your Comment

        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • SocialistBetty
      You always contradict yourself.

      Okay, not always. But I see you do it a lot.

      You say, well of course - in an ideal world, of course!

      And then you continue on and say that it's not an ideal world so NO, of course not! Reality trumps the idealist in us all!


      And then you vote the way of the do-do... the ideal world that doesn't exist... to the complete contradiction of what you've just stated.


      ..............................................i don't get it. You're voting "Yes, if" knowing full well the "if" part doesn't exist.


      But while we're on this subject of equal state-sanctioned representation of religion, let's just see how far we get if campaign for all religious holidays to be national holidays... not just Christian holiday. What do you think?

      - SocialistBettyUS January 1, 2009 11:40PM

      Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag Side: No

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

      • Naumadd
        No Straight "Yes" or "No"

        Which is why I said, "Yes, if ..." One's "yes" or "no" is necessarily contextual. "Yes" if certain conditions, "no" if certain other conditions. I take issue with the fact most the questions on the site are looking for a "yes" or a "no" when very seldom can either be arrived at out of context. I believe I was quite clear on the conditions where I would answer "yes" and the conditions under which I would answer "no".

        For the most part, governments in the United States chose to be rather one-sided in their treatment of religious expression, however, there have been notable exceptions where fairness has been exhibited. I believe generally the answer to the original question is "no", however, context sometimes warrants a "yes" answer.

        You want a single "yes" or "no". I'm telling you there can be none as the question is put forward here. It is a glaring fault in the way debate is conducted here.

        - NaumaddUS January 2, 2009 5:21AM

        Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

        Thank You for your Comment

        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

        • SocialistBetty
          But the "if" doesn't exist...

          ...the "if" is the ideal situation that isn't happening now. The question deals with the current situations as they are, not as you would like them to be.

          You've checked the side of "yes" based on a balance that isn't occurring. You said "NO" in your response because of the current situation, but still voted 'yes'. You're skewing the results.

          - SocialistBettyUS January 2, 2009 12:32PM

          Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag Side: No

          Thank You for your Comment

          We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

      • Naumadd
        On National Holidays ...

        If you have to ask, I believe it more appropriate to restrict religion-themed holidays to a single "National Day of Spirituality" or "National Religion Day" or some such. I would abandon jewish and christian holidays altogether as national holidays. To make them "national" is a slap in the face to those outside the big three - Judaism, Christianity and Islam. The celebrations of these religions are not "national", they are special interest, even if those special interests make up a large percentage of U.S. population. "National" is a larger category than even the combined category of Jew/Christian/Muslim. If these holidays were truly "national", one would see displays of paganism, buddhism, hinduism, Shintoism, Taoism, etc. As it happens, pagans do celebrate many of the same days or near to them, but only because christianity appropriated those celebrations in order to marginalize the pagan traditions that predate that religion.

        In any case, the national holidays we have based primarily in the religious traditions of only one or several religions, in my opinion, are a misuse of governmental authority and power and, to be more blunt, stinks of a majority dictatorship.

        - NaumaddUS January 2, 2009 5:32AM

        Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

        Thank You for your Comment

        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • bagpiper2005
    Who Cares?

    If atheists are offended by religious symbols, there is something terribly wrong with them.

    People have the right to believe and profess their beliefs just as the atheist has a right to openly profess his disbelief. Richard Dawkins and Kent Hovind, two totally opposite ends, but both have the right to profess their beliefs, but they don't have a right to try to completely remove one belief system or the other from the public domain (note I'm accusing both Dawkins and Hovind of said behavior)

    - bagpiper2005US October 16, 2008 1:21PM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • Naumadd
      Symbolism ...

      What offends "atheists" - a term used by theists, but not a necessary term for non-theists - is the forced imposition of the symbols of the religions of others onto property belonging to all. Namely, non-theists do not "Trust in God" as U.S. money suggests, nor do we hold to the narrow, patriarchal and superstitious views of the Christian "Ten Commandments". We are also not "one nation under God" when there are so many who worship and live differently to the Jewish, Christian and Muslim philosophies and practices. Government is wrong to represent these views on properties belonging also to many who do not value them without recognition of the values they DO hold. My beliefs, my practices, my values and symbols are not represented in the very christian views submitted so frequently by the very government that is supposed to represent me equally to those who are christian. I and many others have beliefs, values, practices and symbols that are not represented respectfully by the U.S. government and public properties. Until government changes its views and practices, it is in violation of the thinking and spirit of the American revolution, the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution and its important amendments.

      Government must represent all ... or it must be replaced by one that does.

      - NaumaddUS October 16, 2008 8:08PM

      Reply to this Recommend (2) Icon flag Side: Yes

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • mangueken
    Funny argument

    My input in this is in accordance with some other posters here:
    1) if the state puts any religious symbol up for any holiday than it has to put all of them up.
    2) by not putting up any religious symbols state and other government bodies save tax payers a needless expense.
    The government doesn't say a person can't put his particular faith symbols up on private property so that undercuts the "freedom from religion" argument. Do want you for your holiday on your property with your money. Seems pretty fair to me.

    One basic flaw I see with this argument is that the reality of our founding fathers and why they wrote the constitution and the bill of rights the way they did, is either because some of them were atheists or because they were from people who came from minority religions in their mother country. either way they understood the dangers of having a religious majority try to wield fair secular policies.
    Everyone is more than free to practice their religion according to their beliefs, you're just not allowed to impose those beliefs on anyone else, even if you are part of the majority. They, intelligently, designed the two documents so that might wouldn't make right.



    - manguekenUS December 10, 2008 11:51AM

    Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag Side: No

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • madninjamonkey
    We shouldn't be hypocrites

    If people can put up crosses and other Christian symbols in public spaces, let's not form a mob if a Muslim puts up a picture of Muhammad or an atheist puts up a sign stating that there is no god. Freedom of expression is a Constitutional right, so we should be able to express ourselves but also let everyone else do the same. Religion should only be displayed in public places if all aspects of religion are also represented - not just God and Jesus, but Muhammad and Buddha and Brahman and no one at all.

    - madninjamonkeyUS December 28, 2008 8:38PM

    Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag Side: Yes

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • ckidwell7098
    Two sides to every coin.

    Naturally, the main problem with this issue is offending individuals. Nearly all comments focus on this. However, what if there was a symbol of evolution on public property?

    Many choose to look solely at the atheist or other groups that may be offended by any religious symbol of any sort, but what about the other views. Would it be okay to show a symbol of evolution because it is a widely believed theory that has large amounts of credible evidence? Most would answer yes to this, though it may offend some religious groups.

    I see NO PROBLEM with allowing religious symbols on public property. I HOPE that it offends people. I want them to question their current beliefs, I want them to have to defend it from what the symbol might proclaim.

    If I was jewish, I would want somebody to question my faith. I would want somebody to attack my philosophy. I would feel the same if I was islamic, christian, hindu, etc.

    Philosophies need to be attacked, faiths questioned. This is what progresses our thoughts and our ideas. Symbols in public do that very thing.

    - ckidwell7098US February 19, 2009 4:16PM

    Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag Side: Yes

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • The Antagonist
    Symbolism is a form of expression

    If a Jesus (Angel etc) statue can be on public property, so can a statue of Satan. Let's be fair. Treat ALL equallly. No religion ? That's fine too. Express it.

    - The AntagonistUS July 14, 2009 12:06AM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: No

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • muffmonster36
    Should Religious Symbols be Displayed on Public Property

    NO not in my opinion only because in this country there are many different religions andinstead of agreeing to disagree that want to fight and kill or you know something idiotic if it wasn't for that I'd say yes but people are crazy in the name of religion can't just say well that not my kind but it ur's that is ok with me the thing is when it is all said and done u'll found out if ur right or wrong

    - muffmonster36US September 9, 2009 2:51AM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: No

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument
Religious Symbols Reflect Culture
- From Dr Paul S Vickery
Yes Side
By Dr. Paul S. Vickery - History Prof., Oral Roberts University

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument
Religious Symbols Reflect History
- From Dr Paul S Vickery
Yes Side
By Dr. Paul S. Vickery - History Prof., Oral Roberts University

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument
Religious Symbols Should be Privately Funded
- From Dr Paul S Vickery
Yes Side
By Dr. Paul S. Vickery - History Prof., Oral Roberts University

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument
Religious Symbols Should Not Promote Hatred
- From Dr Paul S Vickery
Yes Side
By Dr. Paul S. Vickery - History Prof., Oral Roberts University

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument
The U.S. Constitution Allows Religious Symbols on Public Property
- From Foundation for Moral Law
Yes Side
By Foundation for Moral Law - Defending Our Right to Acknowledge God

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • lyntel
    Religious symbols

    Maybe people ought to read the legal document called Frame of government, dated May 5, 1682, for Pennsylavia written by then governor, William Penn. this is how government is supposed to be framed.

    Article XXXIV "That all Treasures, Judges, Masters of the rolls, sherriffs, Justices of the Peace, and other officers and persons whatsoever, relating to courts, or trials of causes or any other service in the government; and all members elected to serve in province Council and General Assembly, and all that have right to elect such Members, shall be such as possess faith in Jesus Christ, and that are not convicted of ill fame, or unsober and dishonest conversation, and that are of one and twenty years of age, at least; and that all such so quailtied, shall be capable of the said several employments, and privileges, as aforesaid.

    Article XXXV "That all persons living in this province, who confess and acknowledge the one and Almighty God, to be the Creator, Upholer and Ruler of the world; and that hold themselves oblidged in conscience to live peaceable and justly in civil society, in on ways, be molested, prejudiced for their religious PERSUASION, OR PARCTICE, in matterds of faith and worship, nor shall they be compelled, at any time, to frequent or maintain any religious worship, place, or ministry whatever.

    Article XXXVI That, according to the good example of the primitive Christians, and the case of the creation, every first day of the week, called the Lord's day, people shall abstain from their common daily labout, that they may the better dispose themselves to worship God according to their understanding.

    Yes Religious symbols should be on every government owned property.

    - lyntelUS December 11, 2008 7:19AM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • lyntel
    Ignorance

    Today our country is suffering because of American History ignorance; the lack of knowledge, education,and experience. This is where our problem lies as to whether or not religious symbols should be allowed on Public Property. The rule of law is the rule of discipline. Law is used as the rod of correction.
    My opinion has no value whatsoever.Facts and evidence produce truth. If you are really interested in finding the answer to whether or not religious symbols should be allowed on Public Property please read-- Fundamental Agreement or Original Constitution of the Colony of New Haven, June 4, 1639 written in the Avalon Project under the 17th century. This is from Yale Law School--The Lillian goldman Law Library. After you read it--send it to to the Supreme Court Justices so they can receive some education and knowledge.
    These forefathers formed a divine Providence. They formed one nation under God and this is in the law books prove it.It proves that our government was formed, created and made according to the mind of God. Read it--see it for yourselves.When you are done reading that, go to, Mayflower Compact:1620--there you will see more as to how our government was framed according to God. These are truths--they aren't opinions.
    The men purposed in their hearts to make a government after the likeness of God's customs, manners, and ways. Unity with God is the perfection of all things--even a perfect government. Where did the divine Providence go to? This is what our forefathers formed. Ignorance is changing the divine Providence Form of government that our forefathers fought and died for. Religious symbols?? People let's start putting them everywhere. Congress shall make NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion or the free exercise thereof. We have a God given right to display religious symbols to prove to all that we are one Nation UNDER GOD. These articles prove that God was in control of forming our government in the beginning. Read the facts, evidence, and truth and weep!!!

    - lyntelUS December 18, 2008 1:40PM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • SocialistBetty
    Hmmmm....

    "An establishment of religion is an official, government-sanctioned denomination, where a particular church affiliation is supported by tax dollars and enjoys legal benefits that other denominations do not."

    So, pretty much the Constitution is violated when state and federal employees have paid time off on Christian holidays... that's what that means.

    - SocialistBettyUS January 1, 2009 11:49PM

    Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag Side: No

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • Naumadd
      In a word ...

      yes. As I stated above, Christian holidays ought not be "national" holidays. The "nation" is composed of many more categories of beliefs and practices than simply christian. Federal sponsorship of narrowly-focused religious holidays are inappropriate. Government employees ought to be allowed vacation leave or personal holidays if they wish, but official recognition of specific religions unbalanced and unfair representation by government.

      - NaumaddUS January 2, 2009 5:38AM

      Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • purelabor
    shallow people

    I have found that most people that are offended by symbols are narrow minded. They have to be stupid to be offended by a cross or other symbol on public property. I am not Jewish, but I don't have a heart attack because I pass a Star of David. I am not offended by any symbol. That is for narrow minded people that think they are better than anyone else.


    - purelaborUS February 25, 2009 1:23PM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument
Censoring Symbols from Public Creates Less Freedom & Official Atheism
- From Foundation for Moral Law
Yes Side
By Foundation for Moral Law - Defending Our Right to Acknowledge God

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • Blue Linchpin
    Keeping religion out of the government is not censorship

    Allowing the government to place a religious symbol on public property means either all religious and nonreligious symbols must be allowed to be placed: otherwise the government is endorsing one religion over another.

    Refusal to endorse a religion is NOT censorship. Everyone is free to display their religious symbols on themselves, their property, and speak about it freely.

    - Blue LinchpinUS December 18, 2008 10:14PM

    Reply to this Recommend (2) Icon flag Side: No

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • F2XL
      Right but...

      "Allowing the government to place a religious symbol on public property means either all religious and nonreligious symbols must be allowed to be placed..."

      So what wrong with a little diversity in terms of belief systems? Does a stone with writing or a cross or image of the FSM harm anyone?

      - F2XLUS December 19, 2008 9:37PM

      Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

      • Blue Linchpin
        ?

        No, nothing is wrong with diversity, and I'm not sure what you're asking.

        I'm saying if you put up a cross, you have to put everything else up, or else it's endorsement. That includes FSM if someone wants it.

        - Blue LinchpinUS December 20, 2008 9:28PM

        Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: No

        Thank You for your Comment

        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

        • F2XL
          Agreed

          "I'm saying if you put up a cross, you have to put everything else up, or else it's endorsement. That includes FSM if someone wants it."

          I too feel all views irrespective of the belief have a right to be represented, which would mean everyone that wants a symbol in public should have that representation if they find it important to them.

          - F2XLUS December 20, 2008 11:36PM

          Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

          Thank You for your Comment

          We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

          • Blue Linchpin
            But life isn't so ideal

            Just look at the outrage over the atheists signs. We'd be foolish to think such a policy would actually be in place: it's better to keep religion away from government and let people display their signs on their own land.

            - Blue LinchpinUS December 20, 2008 11:55PM

            Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: No

            Thank You for your Comment

            We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

            • F2XL
              I live in the region where that occurred

              And I can tell you such events would be less common if everyone had a right to their public expression and thus LEARNED to accept the fact that we are all different.

              - F2XLUS December 21, 2008 4:57PM

              Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag Side: Yes

              Thank You for your Comment

              We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

              • Blue Linchpin
                I agree, but

                You're missing the point. They are not going to let everyone have a right to free expression in government buildings. There WILL be a line drawn, and that lesson would not be learned. Would they allow a Church of Hitler? Church of Scientology? Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Atheists? etc, etc? There will always be a line drawn.

                - Blue LinchpinUS December 21, 2008 6:53PM

                Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: No

                Thank You for your Comment

                We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • lyntel
    Thomas Jefferson

    While reading the Virginia Statue for Teligious Freedom writtem by Thomas Jefferson in 1779, I see where Religious Symbols have nothing to do with the seperation of Church and State.

    Ignorance is the lack of knowledge, education, and experience.

    Sec.2 of the Virginia Statue for Religious Freedom:
    "Be it enacted by the general Assembly, That NO MAN shall be COMPELLED to FREQUENT OR SUPPORT any religious worship, place, or ministry WHATSOEVER". This is about being forced to go to church and being forced to finacially support any church. Nor(shall any man) be enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise SUFFER on account of his religious OPINIONS OR BELIEFS;"

    So far, this does not pertain to any religious symbols at all.

    ""but that ALL MEN shall be FREE to PROFESS, and by ARGUMENT TO MAINTAIN, their OPINION in matters of religion, and that the same (OPINIONS) shall in NO WISE diminish enlarge, or AFFECT their CIVIL CAPACITIES. Do symbols affect peoples civil capacities?

    Sec 3. And though we well know that this assembly elected by the people for the ORDINARY PURPOSE OF LEGISLATION ONLY, have no power to restrain the acts of succeeding assemblies, constituted with powers equal to our own, and that therefore to declare this act IRREVOCABLE would be of NO EFFECT IN LAW; yet we are FREE to declare, that the rights hereby asserted are of the NATURAL RIGHTS OF MANKIND, and that if ANY ACT shall be HEARAFTER passed to REPEAL THE PRESENT, or to NARROW ITS OPERATION, such act shall be an INFRINGEMENT OF NATURAL LAW.

    Religious symbols is the object in question. Symbols are not a religious place of worship, nor are they a ministry. They do not ask for membership, not do they ask for financial support. They have a natural right to be erected by man anywhere. It is our natural nature to celebrate the birth and ressuraction of Jesus Christ our Savior. These religious symbols are establishments of faith--they are not establishments of religions! Simple as that. These silent symbols do not burdern people for financial support. Religious symbols have a silent voice.They only speak to the eye of the beholder. They are not in any way, shape, or form, disrupting public or civil order in our land. Instead, it is the athiest who are disrupting the establishment of civil order. These religious symbols bring beauty to our country which brings peace, love and charity throughout our land.

    There might be a wall of seperation between church and state but there is not any law calling for the seperation of religious symbols and state. These symbols are not an establishment of religion--they are an ESTABLISHMENT OF FAITH. It is not against the law to display religious symbols on any public owned property. It is in fact our DUTY to display these symbols that represent religion, "OR the duty which we owe to our Creator". This is only one way to perform our duty which we owe to our Creator.

    - lyntelUS December 22, 2008 9:22AM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • Naumadd
    Yes

    Censorship of religious symbols from public properties would be rather wrong when a balanced approach to representation would be the better solution. Unfortunately, very few in government opt for a balanced approach which is why the symbolism of specific religions has crept into government endorsement. On any account, excluding any religious symbolism from public properties is by no means an endorsement of "atheism" - it is rather an endorsement of balance and fairness.

    If you oppose that, it's rather good for the rest of us you must abide by the U.S. Constitution like everyone else.

    "Atheism", by the way, isn't a philosophy or a religion. "Atheism" is a possible result of one's beliefs and practices but it is not and cannot be the basis of them. As the traditionally religious so aptly point out, that would be a "religion of nothing" which is nonsensical and, contrary to what many of them happen to believe, no one actually "practices atheism". Whatever the "atheist" happen to believe and practice MAKES them "atheistic", i.e., their positive beliefs and practices as seen from the theistic point of view renders a negative image in the theist mind. No one can operate from a negative. One can only live a life founded on positive beliefs and their associated practices.

    Have you ever actually asked an "atheist" what their positive beliefs happen to be? I can assure you, unlike the theist who necessarily begins with "god exists" to reach their other philosophical conclusions, beliefs, rituals, etc., the "atheist" does not begin with "god does not exist". No. That is rather one of their very last conclusions, not the first or even among the first. If any "atheist" tells you that is where they begin, they have little understanding of how they wound up with that conclusion or are simply adopting that position on a whim or to parrot those they respect.

    In any case, in all honesty, you ought to take an interest in an individual's positive beliefs. They are far more relevant to their character than are their negative conclusions about YOUR beliefs.

    - NaumaddUS January 2, 2009 5:53AM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument
The Founders Proposed a Religious Symbol For the First Seal of the US
- From Foundation for Moral Law
Yes Side
By Foundation for Moral Law - Defending Our Right to Acknowledge God

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • Naumadd
    Fortunately, ...

    ... such symbolism was not adopted. It was likely realized this symbolism had less to do with the higher American value of "mutually guaranteed liberty for all" than it related to rather divisive religious beliefs. You wish to make that point that these men allegedly proposed these seals as some evidence they endorsed christianity and the christian bible as the official set of beliefs and practices of all americans and thus christian symbolism ought to be endorsed much the same way today.

    It is clear they did not make such endorsement. Their focus was much more on the value of "liberty"

    ... where it belonged.

    - NaumaddUS January 2, 2009 6:01AM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument
Most Americans Support the Posting of Religious Symbols in Public
- From Foundation for Moral Law
Yes Side
By Foundation for Moral Law - Defending Our Right to Acknowledge God

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • Naumadd
    "Most" versus "All"

    Unfortunately, our government isn't merely a representative of "most of the people". It is a representative of ALL of the people and their liberties. It is right one be be free to display one's beliefs and practices on privately-owned properties, however, public lands belong to ALL of the people, not simply "most" of them.

    This is the point that has to be repeatedly made and with little gain in understanding on the part of those who worship "most" rather than "liberty for all".

    - NaumaddUS January 2, 2009 6:03AM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument
Symbols Should be Displayed Whether Purpose is Secular or Religious
- From Foundation for Moral Law
Yes Side
By Foundation for Moral Law - Defending Our Right to Acknowledge God

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument
What is the Issue and How Did It Arise?
- From William Martin PhD
No Side
By William Martin, Ph.D. - Baker Institute, Rice University

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument
What is the Law, At Least So Far?
- From William Martin PhD
No Side
By William Martin, Ph.D. - Baker Institute, Rice University

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument
Thou Shalt Not! -- The Ten Commandments
- From William Martin PhD
No Side
By William Martin, Ph.D. - Baker Institute, Rice University

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument
Crosses, Nativity Scenes, and Menorahs
- From William Martin PhD
No Side
By William Martin, Ph.D. - Baker Institute, Rice University

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • Babaroni
    Mixing religious symbols doesn't make it better

    This concept that it's perfectly okay to put a manger scene on the courthouse lawn, so long as you toss in a menorah, a star and crescent, and a santa for good measure, is silly. Not only is it confusing and bizarre, as pointed out in the comment above, but also it still violates the establishment clause. Governmental endorsement of a variety-pak of religions is still government endorsement of religion. It is still using public funds to pay for what amounts to "religious advertising." The fact that the government is giving prime-time billing to Christianity plus a nod to Jews and another nod to Muslims does not excuse a thing.

    Thomas Jefferson's cautionary letters about separation of church and state were not addressed solely to states which endorsed a single religion. They were also addressed to states which had given official support and endorsement to several religions.

    Beyond the fact that it would be impossible to fully include every possible religion, in an attempt to "make it fair," there is also the fact that many religions and ideologies (such as atheism) stand in direct contradiction to one another (as has been at issue with the atheist organization's sign in the Christmas display). Any "peaceful co-display" of the emblems or symbols of such conflicting ideologies is likely to quickly become a shouting match.

    The government (our representatives, spending our funds) simply has no place in the middle of such disagreements. The only way to keep the government OUT of the middle of such philosophical head-butting is to have the government keep its hands clean from any involvement in the first place.

    If Christians wish to display Christmas decorations and manger scenes, they should do so on private property, not at the public's expense. If Jewish people wish to display menorahs, again, do so at home or on the synagogue's property. And so forth...

    - BabaroniUS December 19, 2008 12:14AM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: No

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument
Let's Use Some Common Sense and Courtesy
- From William Martin PhD
No Side
By William Martin, Ph.D. - Baker Institute, Rice University

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • obrienr
    "Common sense" and "courtesy" don't enter into it.

    The U.S. may not be a de jure Christian nation, but it is a de facto Christian nation, and there is nothing in the Constitution that forbids civic religion at the state level. (As Justice Harlan noted in Griswold v. Connecticut, the incorporation doctrine is "historically unfounded.")

    - obrienrUS October 11, 2008 2:15PM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • Brady
    Courtesy

    In case "Oh no! Someone might get offended" Well Christians might get offended when they see a gay couple holding hands in public, but does anyone care about that? No! It doesn't matter if Christians or whites or men or Republicans get offended by anything! Everyone just tells us to buck up because we appear to be the ones in power (with the exception of Republicans). People in general need to grow up and stop whining to the government when ever something offends them! It's a diverse world. Don't like being the minority? Well move somewhere that you aren't! Don't try to change the way we do things in America to meet your "needs" and take away what we hold dear.

    - BradyUS December 31, 2008 3:00AM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • Naumadd
      "We"

      Unfortunately, there is no clearly defined "we" that you mention. The "we" you speak of is a smaller class than the "we" which is "all the people". What you hold dear isn't precisely what another holds dear, however, I will grant you that, at least in the United States, what unites us is our value of "liberty for all". That necessarily includes persons that lie outside of the "we" you are likely thinking of.

      The "gays holding hands in public" you mentioned are no different than any other individual or group of individuals wearing christian crosses or any other religious symbolism on their person in public. Although individuals can of course display what they like on their persons and on their personal property, public endorsement on public property, i.e. official government sanction, must be balanced and fair or no sanction can be expressed at all. For government to be selective in its endorsements out of the diversity of the United States is to play favoritism which is unequal representation by government - clearly irresponsible of a government "of the people, for the people, by the people".

      Your private person - which, as it happens, includes you private property - is necessarily distinct from "public property". If you can keep a clear distinction between the two in your actions, no offense is likely to occur. Be as unbalanced as you like with what you own, however, it is mandatory that publicly-owned properties be balanced and fair in their representation of those who own it - all of the people, not simply the majority.

      - NaumaddUS January 2, 2009 6:15AM

      Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

      • Brady
        Government sanctions.

        The government bears the right to hold religion in favor of "irreligion", so long as they do not promote a specific religion. Our nation was founded on faith-based principles! If someone has a Christmas tree or nativity scene on public property, then those who celebrate other holidays around this time of year should have their say, but anti-religious groups shouldn't have the right to put up some sign full of hatred, and so against the holiday spirit, and idiot governor Christine Gregoire here in Washington State has allowed one to do.

        - BradyUS January 6, 2009 12:37AM

        Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

        Thank You for your Comment

        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

        • Naumadd
          Get a Civics Education Refresher

          "Our nation was founded on faith-based principles!"

          Clearly it was not. If this were so, matters of religious faith would be explicit throughout the U.S. Constitution with wording very reminiscent of certain religious documents some claim to be the basis of the founding of the United States and the writing of its supreme laws. As it happens, the highest values serving as the framework for our national constitution are inalienable individual rights and the liberty to exercise them. It is that fact of one's life that gives you rights and an understood social agreement of "liberty in return for liberty". Since the beginning, the individual has had primacy over government. This is evident in the wording of the Constitution restraining the powers of government, not the liberties of individuals. There is also no clearly defined role written into the U.S. Constitution for an alleged "deity" or for any religious prophets or "messiahs" general or specific in individual rights and liberties nor in the government they establish for themselves.

          The U.S. Constitution, not any religious text, serves as the supreme law of the land. The highest values of the U.S. Constitution are respect for individual life, that individual life's rights within a civilized society and their liberty to exercise those rights provided their mutual respect for the liberties of others. The constitution expresses the value of restrained government and the most liberty for the most people.

          At the very foundation of our nation, no deity, no specific or general religion, no religious texts, no religious authorities are granted rights or liberties above those of the individual and their chosen form of government. If our nation's foundation were "faith-based" as some claim, you would expect our originating documents and laws created afterward and rooted in their values to be incredibly and primarily oriented toward the explicit values, commandments, laws, guidances, practices or patterns of traditional western religions.

          They are not.

          On that last matter, I will say this: skepticism, critique and rebuttal related to your specific philosophy and set of practices isn't inherently hateful. In my view and in the views of many others, such expression is considered to be for the good of those who appear clearly under the spell of poor thinking rooted in traditions or habits they find hard to break, let alone hard to abandon.

          The sign in Washington does you a favor. It's to be expected you would not see it as such. Nevertheless, it contains things that need to be said, even if those who hear them do not wish to. I saw it as a positive message and still do. To me, it is a message of hope that reason prevails over unreason. It is no different from the act of a mother or father assuring their child there are no monsters in the closet, so be at peace. If you need the child's security blanket or teddy bear to feel safe, so be it. Perhaps you will grow out of such dependence.

          Perhaps not.


          - NaumaddUS January 6, 2009 7:47AM

          Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag Side: Yes

          Thank You for your Comment

          We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Religious Symbols in Public?

Loading
  • Yes
  • No
Vote
View Results

Ask Your Friends to Vote

Spotlight

Loading
  • William Martin PhD
    William Martin (Ph.D, Harvard, 1969), is the Harry and Hazel Chavanne Emeritus Professor of Religion and Public Policy in the Department of Sociology at Rice.... More

Subscribe to Opposing News

Biweekly updates on new debates and experts

Loading
Thank you for signing up

Please check your email to confirm your subscription.