Experts and users discuss islam, muslim, war on terror: Does Islam Promote Violence?

Regarding Question

Does Islam Promote Violence?

The Religion of Peace?????

Not all Muslims are terrorists; but all the terrorists are Muslim.

Everyday, somewhere in the world, there is an act of terrorism being committed by a Muslim.

If you wish to see a list of the murder and mayhem "the religion of peace" is contributing to the world every single day, log onto the website "thereligionofpeace".

- Sivan July 24, 2008 6:45AM

Reply to this Recommend (3) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- All terrorists are Muslim?
  
  Please check your statement. It is not factual. What do you call Timothy McVeigh, if not a terrorist?
  
  - deenybeeny September 24, 2008 8:35AM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: Uncommitted
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
  - Sivan
    
    Timothy McVeigh was not an institutionalized religion. He was a single individual who was a radical lunatic and a mass murderer. And, if you're going to blame Chrisianity, please name the Christians who are currently blowing up hotels and driving bulldozers into groups of civilians in order to murder innocent people?
    
    To repeat, not all Muslims are terrorists. But all of the terrorism, all over the world, is commited by Muslims. Most recently Pakistan and Israel.
    
    Yes, the U.S. has supported some bad regimes in the past...sometimes it is a necessary evil in order to combat an even worse evil. For example, we became allies with Russia in order to fight a worse evil - Nazism.
    
    Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world and we have to do the best we can. But lying about the evil done by Radical Islam is a fool's paradise.
    
    I stand by my original statement!
    
    Sivan
    
    - Sivan September 24, 2008 12:09PM
    
    Reply to this Recommend (2) Side: Yes
    
    Thank You for your Comment
    
    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
    - Speaking of Israel
      
      ... they terrorise Palestinians everyday. But no one says a word about it because it's Israel, and if you did, you'd be called an anti-semite (in case you didn't know, Israel isn't Muslim... they're Jewish. You appear not to know this). Or maybe it wasn't Israel that just bombed civilians. Or maybe it wasn't Israel who put landmines outside of play areas of children.
      
      The guards who terrorized the prisoners at Abu Ghraid weren't Muslim and yes, it was terrorizing.
      
      Black Water isn't Muslim, yet they shot innocent civilians and terrorized the citizens of Iraq.
      
      Simply because we're on one side and "they" are on the other doesn't make invading Iraq any less of a terrorist act perpetrated by a government. We invaded a sovereign country and lied about the reasons for doing so. We bombed buildings and killed innocent people. The reasoning behind it was false. Yet somehow it's okay, because it's the U.S.. Because we would never do anything that's wrong, and it's okay if we did because we're a democracy.
      
      You can stand by your original statement all you want to but you'll still be standing by the words of a fool.
      
      In the same way that guns don't kill people, but people kill people - Islam doesn't kill people, people kill people. Using religion as a reason to kill has worked for many Christians (Crusades), and continues to work for them. It doesn't mean Christianity promotes violence anymore than Islam does. It means misguided people will listen false purveyors of truth (in regards to religion).
      
      - SocialistBetty December 30, 2008 9:56AM
      
      Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
      
      Thank You for your Comment
      
      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
      - ISLAMO-FACISM
        
        The following is a quote from the speech of Geert Wilders, a Dutch Parliamentarian and chairman of the Party for Freedom in the Netherlands.
        
        "In some elementary schools in Amsterdam the farm can no longer be mentioned, because that would also mean mentioning the pig, and that would be an insult to Muslims.
        In once-tolerant Amsterdam gays are beaten up almost exclusively by Muslims. Non-Muslim women routinely hear "whore, whore".
        In France school teachers are advised to avoid authors deemed offensive to Muslims, including Voltaire and Diderot; the same is increasingly true of Darwin.
        The history of the Holocaust can in many cases no longer be taught because of Muslim sensitivity.
        
        Last week a man almost died after being beaten up by Muslims in Brussels,because he was drinking during the Ramadan. Jews are fleeing France in record numbers, on the run for the worst wave of anti-Semitism since World War II.
        I could go on forever with stories like this. Stories about Islamization.
        
        Allow me to give you a brief Islam 101. The first thing you need to know
        about Islam is the importance of the book of the Quran. The Quran is Allah's personal word, revealed by an angel to Mohammed, the prophet. This is where the trouble starts.
        Every word in the Quran is Allah's word and therefore not open to discussion or interpretation. It is valid for every Muslim and
        for all times. Therefore, there is no such a thing as moderate Islam. Sure, there are a lot of moderate Muslims. But a moderate Islam is non-existent.
        
        The Quran calls for hatred, violence, submission, murder, and terrorism. The Quran calls for Muslims to kill non-Muslims, to terrorize non-Muslims and to fulfil their duty to wage war: violent jihad.
        Jihad is a duty for every Muslim, Islam is to rule the world - by the sword."
        
        And these are the words of a government official from a country that welcomed Islamic imigrants with open arms and tried to help them get established in their country.
        
        If you go online, you can get the complete text of Mr. Wilders speech.
        Sivan
        
        - Sivan December 30, 2008 3:34PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        YOU are the fascist.
        
        And you're unreasonable, and you're racist against an entire group of people. Classic case of "It's okay if I do it, but horrible if you do it."
        
        No amount of reasoning with you will ever work because you don't hear it. You have it in your head that only Muslims are terrorists and they're all out to get you. Nothing anyone can say will convince you otherwise.
        
        Thus you, and people like you, will continue this idiocy into the future without recognizing problems for they really are and the wars and fighting and dying continue. Bravo.
        
        - SocialistBetty December 31, 2008 10:10AM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: No
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        Thank You So Much
        
        Thank you for your rational and eloquent response (and personal attack on me).
        
        Your ability to quickly sift through all the facts in my previous email and come to the conclusion that the problem is that I’m prejudiced against an entire group of people is a credit to your critical-thinking skills.
        
        Thank you so much for clarifying the whole issue. No more discussion is needed.
        
        Respectfully,
        Sivan
        
        - Sivan December 31, 2008 3:14PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        More comments in this thread
- Wrong question
  
  Islam certainly is the religion of the vast majority of terrorists, to blame Islam is completely missing the point. It is easy for the West to blame terrorism on radical Islam rather than look closely at the situation and understand WHY they hate the west. You don’t have to agree but it is imperative that we look through their eyes to understand terrorism. You will see why a war on terror is unwinnable. I also feel the good Muslim people, which represent the vast majority, should do more to denounce and educate against their radical counterparts.
  
  Our CIA armed and trained resistance fighters in Afghanistan on the premise of being the good guys, helping them stave off the Soviet invasion. When the Russians left, we did nothing to help them rebuild their country making it clear we were only fighting against Russia, not for the Afghan people.
  
  We left Afghanistan in ruin, broke from years at war and with a massive political vacuum, filled by the Taliban and resentment towards the USA. One of the men the CIA trained and abandoned was Osama Bin Laden. This is why leaving Iraq in a fragile state could have dire consequences. Imagine the terror breeding ground of the Taliban fueled by billions in oil revenues. You can make a strong case about not going into Iraq in the first place but we are there now, and leaving too soon could be a disaster of epic proportions.
  
  Our foreign policy claims to be about promoting democracy for humanitarian reasons yet when it benefits us, we turn a blind eye to excessive humanitarian abuses of our “allies” like Saudi Arabia.
  
  Syria was our ally in the first gulf war. They had troops on the ground that fought alongside us and sent missiles into Baghdad from locations East of Damascus. Was there something Syria did to move from ally to enemy? No. We made them an ally because we wanted Arab support for the first gulf war then determined they were evil when we no longer needed them. This is not to say that Syria isn’t guilty of supporting terrorism, only to say that they were just as guilty of that before but we ignored that then.
  
  While a generalization, poverty often breeds hatred as people are susceptible to blaming another group for their problems. The Nazi movement predating World War II was in part fueled by the poverty in Germany brought on by economic sanctions leveled after World War I. Look carefully at the places where radical Islam is preaching against the West: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sudan, etc. In each of these countries you find massive poverty. Yet countries that redistribute oil wealth like Qatar, Kuwait and Dubai/UAE are not breeding grounds for terrorism. Not to say that there are no terrorists there but to say they aren’t breeding grounds of radical Islam as found in impoverished nations.
  
  We overthrew Saddam Hussein because he was an “evil dictator” yet we ignore the entire continent of Africa which is ripe with evil dictators and mass genocide.
  
  Remember that there is a fine line between terrorist and freedom fighter. PLEASE try to read what I am about to say, not as support of terrorism in any way, but rather an explanation of how terrorists view themselves. For decades, the USA and other countries viewed the ANC (African National Congress) as a terrorist organization and they bombed various targets in South Africa. The leader of the radical arm of the ANC was named Nelson Mandela. Later, public perception changed as the world viewed apartheid as morally wrong and the ANC were no longer thought of as terrorists but as freedom fighters and Mandela a world hero. So while we view groups like Hamas and Hezbollah as terror organizations, and rightfully so, much of the Islamic world sees them as freedom fighters.
  
  I have nothing but respect for the Jewish faith yet I don’t see criticizing Israel when appropriate as having anything to do with the Jewish faith. We criticize the UK and France when appropriate but have a different stance towards Israel, backing them 100% without question as if criticism of Israel somehow makes us anti-Semitic. When it comes to the Palestinian occupied territories or Southern Lebanon, there are no innocent victims. Each side carries some culpability and the solution to peace lies with respect, understanding and compromise from both sides.
  
  At the end of the day, you cannot hold a gun to the head of a member of the Klan and tell him to like black people. And while fighting against terrorism on the battle field is important, you will never win that war because you are not fighting an army, you are fighting an ideology. Failure to understand an enemy surely makes any unwinnable in the long run.
  
  Some of you will certainly read the above and feel my comments are unpatriotic; nothing could be further from the truth. I feel it essential to understand one’s enemy. To win the “war on terror” we must fight both on the battle field and in the hearts and minds of Muslims.
  
  - Pliskin October 3, 2008 10:10AM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (3) Side: Uncommitted
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
its a western propoganda

do not think any religion promotes violence. its because the western world particularly America wants to dominate the world by spreading information and subsequently invading oil rich islamic countries in the name of fighting terrorism.

The Americans have had their victories, trouncing Afganisthan. Later to trounce Saddam Hussein, for a revenge long sought Bush Junior invaded Iraq. How many more to continue??? God only knows.

- balaji July 24, 2008 8:51AM

Reply to this Recommend (2) Side: Uncommitted

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- Do you deny...?
  
  Do you deny that the violent fanatics in Islam justify their murder of Westerners by quoting passages from the Koran? Do you speak up against them in person? What passages from the Koran do you use to refute them to their faces?
  If you are silent because they are men of violence, then what strength do you use to cleanse Islam of the filth of their hatred and violence/
  You want us who do not believe to respect Islam as a peaceful religion. But, how can you claim the violent ones are not the core of Islam, when they can eliminate your "moderate" voice by killing you?
  They want to dominate all mankind by conquest. Do you not approve of overcoming all other ideologies with Islam? What method do you promote to achieve this aim? Or, do you secretly approve of their method of violence?
  Until you answer these questions, they may kill us, but they will not win our conversion or respect. Neither will objective morality.
  
  - pbeaird August 20, 2008 6:06PM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
  - Jerry Falwell
    
    Wasn't it he who said he thanked God everyday that we were in Iraq fighting the war?
    
    As if it's any different to justify the murders (and that's exactly what it is) of innocent people in the name of "Democracy" or "Freedom".
    
    As if it's different for guards to use Christianity in their torture of prisoners.
    As if it's any different for men to shoot other men while wearing crosses around their necks.
    
    As if we don't know that many young, idiotic, idealist young men joined the Marines and the Army to "Go shoot me some rag-heads." As if we don't know that baby or man, a dead Arab is a dead Arab to these people. Many of these same young men who would pray at night and go to chapel.
    
    As if we don't know. But because it's "our side" it's okay. And because it's "their side" it's wrong.
    
    When people fall victim to others who use religion as a method to promote violence, there's a reason. And a lot of it has to do with what OUR COUNTRY has done. Our involvement, and our dismissal.
    
    It's very easy to shout "It's all Islam's fault." But it won't do a single thing to change the situation. It won't change how people fall prey to the ideologies of *other men*.
    
    It doesn't change the fact that religions do not promote violence, MAN PROMOTES VIOLENCE. Religion is just a handy tool to get people to listen. The promise of eternal reward in a place that is beautiful and sweet and completely unlike the dirt and dust and grime men starve in now.. where they watch their nephews or perhaps own children die, or grow up hungry all the time. The promise of salvation if you believe. .... It's an easy hook, and people who are hooked will swallow just about anything else a person feeds them if it's done right.
    
    Especially if it's crammed in their heads repeatedly (like the term Islamo-Fascism was crammed,coincidentally).
    
    - SocialistBetty December 31, 2008 11:33AM
    
    Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
    
    Thank You for your Comment
    
    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Weigh All Sides

Well said Redondo! Like you, I have not studied the religion enough to state that Islam promote violence.

What I do know is that the Oklahoma City bombing was done by Christians. I know that the US Government propped up some of the most abominable, horrific regimes in history in Africa, Asia, and elsewhere. I know that the Catholic church instituted war after war, as well as creating the most horrific forms and devices of torture ever conceived, against Moors, Jews, Protestants, and others.

I know that Islam, Christianity and Judaism all share an Abrahamic covenant and most people are inclined towards peace. I know that while Christians were mired in the dark ages, Muslims were creating art, math, science and medicine.

What I do not know is that Islam promotes violence of and by itself.

- Kasidie July 24, 2008 9:52AM

Reply to this Recommend (3) Side: Uncommitted

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- Peace from Mohammed: not for sissies.
  
  You have some excellent points, and I don't disagree with anything you said. In fact, I would use those very points to dissuade anyone with an irrational fear and/or hatred of Muslims.
  But if you want to know the difference between the Christian crusaders and the Moors they fought against you have to look at their prophets.
  
  On behalf of the Christians you have Jesus - very laid back individual, taught peace, love, and started the hippie movement in the face of the pharisees and saducees of the day. He was killed for his beliefs.
  
  Then you have the prophet Mohamed pop up in Mecca a thousand years later - here's a man who also taught peace, love, etc. Indeed, Mecca Mohamed was a good man. But then he went to Medina and slaughtered 80,000 Jews and Christians. He killed for his beliefs. And though the Qaran does a semi-decent job of justifying his actions, you have to realize that the very first Jihad was conducted by the prophet.
  
  So the Christians involved in the crusades were bad Christians who were obviously not paying attention to the example of their prophet, whereas the Muslims involved in said crusades were good Muslims who were carrying on Mohamed's example.
  
  And speaking of dark ages, it is not a coincidence that we are seeing so many Jihad's in this day and age. Muslims have finally reached their own dark ages. I've spent a lot of time (way too damn much time) in Afghanistan and I can't help pointing out that even though most people in Afghanistan speak Pashto and Dari, when they go to the Mosques the imams read the Quran in Arabic. So often the people don't even know what's in the Quran. They have to rely on the imams for their translation. In these rural Muslim cities the imam has total control over what their community believes. Sound familiar? It should, because this is exactly the kind of thing that was going on in Christianity before William Tyndale came along.
  
  For more info on this from a Muslim dude who has a PhD from the most prestigious Islamic University in the world (so ya know, he's probably legitimate) click the link below:
  
  http://bibleprobe.com/MarkGarbriel-Introduction.htm
  
  - Livvy February 8, 2009 4:22PM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Uncommitted
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Violence in the Quran

The Quran is full of violent verses promoting fighting the unbelievers (Jews and Christians).

9:29 Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya [tribute] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

I could go on and on, but I only have a few characters left.

- jmelika July 24, 2008 12:19PM

Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- I wouldn't be so condescending if I weren't so damn smart
  
  Oh yeah, because the bible (especially the Old Testament) NEVER goes overboard with crime and punishment when it comes to heathens worshiping other gods (check out Deuteronomy 13:6-13:10, Exodus 22:20, it's pretty juicy).
  
  Even though I don't disagree that the Quran IS rather violent, Shakespeare said it best: "Even the devil can cite scripture for his own purpose."
  
  Cherry-picking scripture to prove a point, well, that's no argument are all.
  
  - Livvy February 8, 2009 4:46PM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Uncommitted
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Consistent errors ...

Yes, Islam promotes violence or, more accurately, many who hold to the philosophy called "Islam" behave violently. Every philosophy under the sun has been used to justify individual and collective violent behavior. No philosophy has been immune to the errors of fact and reason of those human beings who cling to them.

Islam is no different in its violent history than has been Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Democracy, Communism, Libertarianism, Girl Scouts etc.

Human choose to be savage or they do not. Philosophies appear to be beside the point.

- Naumadd July 24, 2008 8:39PM

Reply to this Recommend (4) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Violence?

Islam has 5 basic tenets(similar to the 10 commandments), none of which promote violence or even anything resembling it. In fact the only one that mentions Jihad, refers to the moral and internal struggle between choosing good versus evil and disciplining oneself to be a faithful follower of Islam. All the other tenets deal with chartiy to the poor and needy, the Haj (trip to Mecca once in one's life) daily prayer 5 times a day and belief in One God (Allah). The Qu'ran does exactly what the old testament (and some parts of the new testament do), encouraging muslims to promote faith in Allah among the pagans but also to respect the children of the Book and fellow monotheists.
In an historical context, Judaism, Christianity and Islam have all had their more aggressive episodes against other religions and faiths,as did pantheistic Romans and Greeks, Assyrians, Celts and so on. However Islam is a faith that holds all life dear, believes in a forgiving and merciful God and in world peace.

- weedonald July 25, 2008 9:49PM

Reply to this Recommend (4) Side: No

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- So, we can count on you to...
  
  Do you openly decry as evil the Muslims who destroyed our Towers? Will you reject inner cheer, when Muslims attack the West again? These are men who use the Koran to justify violence. Yes, Hebrews and Christians killed those who disagreed. Does that justify Islam for the violent conquest of other peoples? Do you justify Mohammed's 1st attack on a neighbor's caravan, praising God for stolen goods? Do you justify the wars between Sunis and Shiites from Mohammed's death till today? Peaceful Islam is oppression by political means. The moderates aim to conquer the world by population. When it takes over a country's government, that government will not honor human choice, votes or individual rights. The dictates of Islam will be forced on all by government. That is violence against the natural rights of man, the enslavement of those who disagree. There can be no separation between Islam and government, no peace for those who disagree. Islam is a totalitarian political movement.
  
  - pbeaird August 21, 2008 10:47PM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
It is certain people who practice the religion

In all forms of religion, Islam and Christianity included, there are sects and practitioners that promote violence and moral subjugation. I'm not a religious person myself (I believe in a Great Architect), but religion can be used for both good and evil. The real problem with all religions is not the religion itself, but some of the people who practice it.

- PSYOP August 28, 2008 3:26PM

Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
THE ISLAMIC MESSAGE

Islam is a philosophy of life. It gives reasons and a set purpose for living. Furthermore, it defines the best ways to secure progress and happiness. This is done by elevating the spiritual side and satisfying the material needs of people.
Islam considers man as a viceroy of God on earth. This status is a fine one, but it is also critical for the requirements must be satisfied. Thus, he is in an envied position, and consequently his acts and behavior are expected to conform to the high level he is occupying.
The Islamic concepts and laws are inseparable parts of the Islamic ideology. They are the practical expression of Islam in society and life in general. These concepts and laws are essentially concerned with harmonizing people's relationships among themselves, with other beings, and above all with the Creator.
The basic Islamic outlook to this life is that of an introductory course. This worldly life is viewed as a prelude to another eternal life. Therefore, this world is a preparatory stage for people in order to attain the spiritual level which permits them to enter Paradise. The other side of the picture is the horror of Hell for people who misuse the powers at their disposal. Hence, success and failure are not measured with this worldly or materialistic supremacy. The Islamic measure differs from materialistic standard by accounting for the life hereafter. The satisfaction of God is the sublime aim which surpasses all other inclinations and wishes. This is by no account neglecting materialistic supremacy, but putting it in its rightful place. It is with the satisfaction of God that Muslims seek materialistic supremacy.

- joolaee September 5, 2008 2:37AM

Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- But who is interpreting the message?
  
  What you say is fine, until it is used as an excuse to bully, intimidate and even murder those with whom you disagree. That seems to be the way a substantial number of Muslims are behaving. They are not content with living their own code, they wish to impose it on others - even other Muslims of a different persuasion.
  
  The fact that so many of them use murder and violence in this pursuit should concern all Muslims. Until the highest religious authorities make it a priority to repudiate violence against others and expel those who advocate it, Islam cannot claim to be peaceful.
  
  So far, Islam is failing that test.
  
  - AlibiFarmer September 9, 2008 8:54AM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: Yes
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Look at the leaders of Islam.

In no other religion do the leaders so openly encourage violence and murder. Not only do they advocate attacking 'unbelievers', but even their coreligionists of other sects. Even children are not exempt from being targeted.

Most suicide bombers don't exist in isolation. They are armed, prepared, and promised eternal paradise by 'devout' religious leaders. Until that religious infrastructure is dismantled and the leaders cast out, Islam must be considered a contributor to violence.

- AlibiFarmer September 5, 2008 12:34PM

Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- Jesus Camp
  
  Watch that movie. It's "enlightening".
  
  - SocialistBetty December 31, 2008 11:37AM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: No
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
  - I have watched that movie.
    
    But fail to see how it is relevant to the debate. The leaders of those camps do reject and disparage other faiths, but they don't advocate murdering them. Don't you find that a relevant difference?
    
    - AlibiFarmer January 1, 2009 9:37AM
    
    Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes
    
    Thank You for your Comment
    
    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
    - Is that so?
      
      So when Becky Fischer says she wished more fundamental Christians would show the same kind of devotion as fundamentalist Muslims what do you think these kids... CHILDREN... are hearing?
      
      These kids and many like them are being indoctrinated from the time they are born. They are taught to hate, and to spread their hate, all in the name of a man who spoke only of love.
      
      While in this movie there are no directives towards violence, don't assume that they don't exist. What we see in this movie is only the tip of the radical Evangelical iceberg. These are the people who are responsible for abortion clinic bombings. These are the people who are responsible for killing, and bludgeoning gay people. These are the people who are responsible for it is *their idealogy* that triggers these responses in people in the same manner as the ideology of radical Islam does. That there is no direct war on Islam here doesn't mean it isn't so across the globe. Killing or harming others in the name of god is the same no matter which god is being claimed.
      
      As far as the underlying cause to subjugate all people to the rule of Islam, what exactly do you think radical Christians are trying to do? They are doing the exact same thing.
      
      Key point: These are not the whole of the religion. And if anyone thought it was, there would smiting going on all over the place.
      
      There is a difference in this movie... There is only a bridge that is waiting to be crossed. It is already built, and waiting for these kids, and others like them to follow in the extremist footpaths of those who have already crossed it. The extremist ideology that "even children are not exempt from" is just as dangerous, and it's happening in your backyard...
      
      - SocialistBetty January 1, 2009 2:26PM
      
      Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: No
      
      Thank You for your Comment
      
      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
      - Are you at all interested in the thread of this disccusion,....
        
        or merely using it to blacken those with whom you disagree?
        
        I grew up in the South, among evangelicals, fundamentalists, and others. I don't share their beliefs, but I respect their right to hold them. And I would feel safer leaving my wallet with most of them than many others I have known. They are passionate in their beliefs, as you are. The world is changed by those with passion. I found the movie upsetting, but not threatening. I have known people like those, and they are neither violent not unreasonable outside of their faith.
        
        All children are indoctrinated. It's called parenting. But there is a clear line between teaching kids it is acceptable to murder those of other faiths and that their beliefs are wrong. Having read your letter carefully, I find you are not only disregarding the subject of this discussion, but you are projecting your own prejudices, fears, and hates on others FAR beyond what you are using as justification.
        
        If you do this often, you should put your thoughts in better order if you wish to be taken seriously. If it is affecting your ability to hold a job or interact with others, you should get professional help.
        
        - AlibiFarmer January 2, 2009 7:55AM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        Tough cookies, Richard.
        
        With all due respect, I'm not the one telling a child who wonders if there's even god at all that he's full of sin and making him fearful of even his own mind.
        
        You are saying that because there are people in Islam who are violent then the whole of Islam is violent.
        
        I am saying that the same thing exists in Christianity. These are fringe groups and yes, they do promote violence. Not ALL of them, but a lot of them.
        
        So how is it different?
        
        You don't like to hear this, because it's what you grew up with. You would trust your wallet with them. Great.
        
        But the only response you have is that I am projecting prejudice, fear and hate onto others and should seek professional help?
        
        That's what you're doing when you say the whole of Islam is represented by the small portion of fanatics who twist what their religion teaches into an excuse to murder. You are projecting your fear, your prejudice and your hate on others. Which is exactly what the fundamental evangelicals do.
        
        Lastly, I never said these lunatics never had a right to do what they're doing - but it's just as dangerous and insane to use any religion as an excuse to preach hatred, and violence. And yes, Jesus Camp does only show the tip of the iceberg.
        
        - SocialistBetty January 2, 2009 12:24PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        I see no Christian leaders advocating violence and murder.
        
        I do see this among many Muslims - and not being rejected by the overwhelming rank and file. When some Danish cartoons mocked Mohamed, there were 2 million Pakistanis in the streets - many of them urging death to one Western group or another. When several Pakistanis undertook a terrorist raid in India, there was no outrage. If Christian groups reacted with violence and outrage to insult, this whole country would be swamped.
        
        Comparing the 3,000 dead from 9/11, the 100s dead recently in India, the nightclub bombings, the fatwas calling for the murder of authors, the whole tenor of intolerance in much of Islam to the the few, the isolated, and the rejected instances of violence based on any faith issue elsewhere does cause me to question your reasoning abilities. Most Muslims may be peaceful. But they have not demanded peace and tolerance from their leaders. Muslims certainly turn out in the 1,000s and 100,000s when they feel offended. And they certainly threaten murder and destruction on those they disagree with. And they have acted upon those impulses often enough to be taken seriously. If you are going to equate Christianity to that, show me the examples - on the same scale.
        
        Jesus Camp was a disturbing movie. But those ideas and those camps have been around for a LONG time. They were around when I was growing up in the 50s. Where are the examples of terror and murder they have promoted? We lost more people in the Kansas City bombing than we have in all the abortion clinic violence since the beginning. When I read of violence against gays and lesbians, it isn't inspired by religion - but by culture. The two are similar, but hardly identical, and I challenge you to cite the example where faith prompted the attack.
        
        You may not like fundamentalists, but I doubt you are in hiding from them. You are free to express your opinions. If you went to their worship and expressed yourself, you would be ejected, but not harmed. When Islam can say the same, it will have made progress. If you don't like fundamentalists, you are free to preach your own truth publicly. After you have tried that in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, etc tell me there is no difference.
        
        EVERY community has its crazies. The scale and acceptance of violence incited by Islam is orders of magnitude greater than anything else I can think of though. Until Muslim change that, my opinion remains Islam does promote violence. You don't seem to reject that, you just want to include your own personal vendetta in the mix. Perhaps you need to start your own thread?
        
        - AlibiFarmer January 2, 2009 1:46PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: Yes
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        More comments in this thread
      - Sorry, but I've got to jump in
        
        "These kids and many like them are being indoctrinated from the time they are born. They are taught to hate, and to spread their hate, all in the name of a man who spoke only of love"
        
        Betty, this is a very good point, though I don't agree with you on much.
        
        That being said, your above statement can litterally be applied to ANY religion . I was raised a "Christian", and though I still believe, as an adult I have chosen to abandon all religions...I can't stand what humanity has turned religion into (all societies, all cultures). No matter how well meaning they start out, within a few generations its all about power and control of the many by the few....faith and salvation no longer have anything to do with it.
        
        "There's nothing scarier than a fanatic who's willing to kill or die for what they believe in" Fox Maulder
        
        - JBarnett July 23, 2009 8:02PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        Sea Man Ticks
        
        That was the point. The question "Does Islam Promote Violence?" is a loaded question. People promote violence just like people kill people (and not the guns they use a means to the end). All religions promote violence if one religion does. There are fanatics in every religion. Picking out one is BS. I would say that when you have a man who pushed a country into preemptive war with no regard to loss of life and who calls himself a man of god.... then that would be grounds to say Christianity promotes violence? I don't really think it would be fair grounds.... but I don't think it fair ground to say Islam promotes violence, either. BUT. There are many who would, could, and do.
        
        However, "There's nothing scarier than a fanatic who's willing to kill or die for what they believe in" is also an unfair statement. We would be taking a break at tea time and watching rugby if that were true.
        
        Wars stink. People die in them. I watched a great episode of "Sliders" where they thought they slid back home.... except they hadn't, of course. The ATM's would give you money ... however much you wanted. But you were entered in a lottery. The winners died. That's how they kept the population controlled and everything. ......I don't know what that has to do with anything. Seems somehow like it does. Probably not, but it's 4 in the morning. Everything looks better at four in the morning. The fish are bigger. The rivers are wider. Everything.
        
        Ramble.
        
        - SocialistBetty August 4, 2009 3:15AM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Of course is does. Duh!

It is self evident that Islam promotes violence. Whenever you here about a terrorist attack in the Middle East or some kind of war guess who cause most of it. Remember all the recent wars with holy jihad & hezbollah. Every terrorist act that occurs today is done by Radical Islam and there is no freedom in that religion. People who are from countries that practice Islam are either forced to abide by the laws or they will get death or be excommunicated. For those who choose to follow Islam die heartedly is brainwashed.

As a woman I don't even see the benefits of being Muslim who wants to be treated a little better than an animal. I remember watching the news and the women wanted to get educated and that was forbidden I even saw a man beating them with a stick ( that was in Afghanistan). I guess they want to keep them weak and ignorant.

Some people say that Christianity promote violence that is not true especially regarding the crusades. Some people have a tendency to use the name of God & manipulate it, they are not Christians. No true Born Again Christian promotes violence.

- Tamara September 5, 2008 5:46PM

Reply to this Recommend (2) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- True Yet Not True
  
  Tamara, I think your comments sum up some of the problems faced by Muslims: a lack of understanding. Islam runs the full range as does all other religions including Christianity, which is my faith. Do not forget the near cult-like Christian groups exposed recently for treating women as currency, sex and marriage to minors, etc etc. Or Christians that bomb abortion clinics in the name of "God." In my prior post, I mentioned that I live in an all-Jewish area and they are Orthodox Jews here where often women must walk behind the man, cannot wear shorts and expose their legs and must cover their hair when in public.
  
  When most here think of Muslims, they think of women in Burkas and yes, that is one type of the Muslim faith but countries like Jordan have gone a long way towards equality of the sexes, in part do to the great work of Queen Noor, an American woman who married the king of Jordan. But even more so, the pre-Taliban Afghanistan, Iran under the Shah and even Iraq, yes Iraq, were among the most progressive Muslim countries towards women.
  
  Certainly, many Muslim countries do not treat women to the standards of the west but do not forget, there are plenty of countries in the world that are not Muslim that do not come close to our standards either.
  
  While women got the right to vote here over 100 years ago, it was not that long ago that women were still treated as less than equals and not up to the standards of other nations and I think you could make the case that women are still not treated as true equals here.
  
  The other thing is, having spoken with Muslim women in Muslim countries, although not women in Burkas, granted, you would be surprised at how they feel about us. In their view point, they see the culture of the West as degrading towards women. As I sat in a Muslim country, seeing Madonna videos on the satellite TV where she is scantily clad and "dry-humping" the stage, I can see their point.
  
  While the Burka is sickeningly oppressive, in most Muslim countries, the Burka is not used and in those places, women see the behavior of Western women equally as degrading as we see the Burka.
  
  After I returned from Iraq, I gave a speech at a prominent women's college on the rights of women in Muslim nations and my point is that we must be careful when judging others based on our standards and perceptions gained from the media because by thier standards and perceptions, we treat women worse than they do: as purely sexual objects and that opinion is well supported by our media: in film, music and magazine covers.
  
  If you can imagine what their opinion of us is based on what they see on the news and in film, etc. maybe you can understand how our perception of them is somewhat skewed based on what we see in the media. While I will never condone mistreatment of women for any reason in any land, you cannot lumps all Muslims in one group anymore than you can lump all Christians or all Jews into a single bucket of ideology either.
  
  - Pliskin October 3, 2008 11:02AM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (2) Side: Uncommitted
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
All faiths can promote violence

Judaism, Christianity, and now Islam have all used their respective faiths to promote violence during their histories.

During the Dark Ages of the West, Christianity had the crusades (jihads), the Inquisition, and a general dominance of religion and religious persecution in all Christian countries roughly akin to what we see today across the Muslim world. The list of atrocities committed in the name of Jesus is too long to elaborate.

Christianity only began to change to a more peaceful religion starting with the Renaissance. It was then that the fear and intolerance promulgated by Christianity gave way to the power of the rational human mind. Life became a joy rather than a miserable stop on the way to heaven, human happiness became a goal unto itself, and the magnificence of human beings began to be appreciated (see Michaelangelo's sculptures and paintings if you doubt it).

I suspect that Islam is in the midst of its Dark Ages right now, which is why there are so many parallels with the Christian West's Dark ages. Maybe all religions have to go through this appalling period during their evolution. It's an interesting question for historians and philosophers.

The important practical question is Will the Muslim world ever have a renaissance of its own through which it will convert to a more secular, rational, pluralistic, individualistic, tolerant, prosperous and peaceful culture?

- SidAirfoil September 11, 2008 9:50AM

Reply to this Recommend (3) Side: Uncommitted

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Actions speak louder than words

Does Islam promote violence? It seems like the wrong question to me.

The real question, I think: Does organized religion promote violence?

The answer seems an invariable yes. Look at the history of the world. By measure of lives lost or irreparably harmed, two entities have done more damage than anything else: organized religion and organized government. Authority results in violence, whether religious or governmental.

Actions speak louder than words. The words of authority often may be about love, peace, and acceptance, but the actions of authority invariably involve coercion, propaganda, and violence.

Does Islam promote violence? Hell yeah. But so do the other organized religions. Let's not single out Islam. Christianity, Judaism, Hindu and other religions have enacted violence upon their fellow man in the names of their religions too. Even modern religions like Scientology have enacted violence upon people.

Authority breeds violence. No message of history seems more clear.

- ebsarver September 20, 2008 8:34PM

Reply to this Recommend (3) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- Can't See the Forest for the Trees
  
  Does authority breed violence, or are religion and government simply outlets for man's unfaltering violent tendencies. Hypothetically, if these organizations did not exist, i would still expect violence to take place.
  
  I believe that it was not the intention of the original creators of these religions for the writings to promote violence. I think that there purpose was to pass on knowledge, values and social norms to future generations. I agree with you that these texts have been abused throughout history. But does that mean that Islam promotes violence, or does it mean that certain people that practice Islam (and other religions) promote violence because of their human nature?
  
  - Jefe32 October 9, 2008 7:57AM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Oh My Gosh Does It Ever

The Qur'an clearly states that those who do not submit are to be killed. Also remember what it says about those who die in the name of Allah fighting what the Qur'an calls the "people of the book" (all the virgins waiting in their version of heaven). Not to mention the forced circumcisions of both boys and girls (BOTH of which are morally repulsive procedures, though that's another debate).

9/11, etc., all Islamic related. To say that Islam does NOT promote violence is to say that you are very ignorant.

- bagpiper2005 September 27, 2008 4:45AM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Christianity and Islam is not the same.

To Pliskin

This is what I want you and everybody to understand. Christianity is not like other religions. To a Born again believer filled with the Holy Spirit it is not a religion it is life. Not everyone who call themselves Christian are Christians. Whenever you here people mistreat people for what ever reason in the name of Christianity they are not Christians just religious heretics so I am tired of hearing people say Christians do this or that in the name of God. You used the word "cult-like Christian" that's an oxymoron every thing cult like is demonic therefore not of God.You will know a tree by it's fruits.

What distinguishes Christianity from Islam and Judaism is Jesus. Jesus is the way the truth of and the life. No one will get to heaven without Jesus. He is the one that makes sinners righteous there is nothing you or anybody can do to make your self right before God without Jesus. Man's righteousness is filthy in God's sight.That is why God sent Jesus to bridge the gap between Himself and humans. All people have to do is accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of their life ( if they want) from then on you are righteous and God enable us to do good works. So your goodness carries more weight when you are in Christ than when you are not in Christ because you are still a sinner.

I stand by what I said before. There is no freedom in Islam (since the topic is about Islam). This is what Christianity has which no other religion has everybody's savior for their religion is dead and still dead. Jesus died and rose three days later and still alive upon till this moment. Let me ask you this where is Mo hammed and who really is Allah? There is nothing similar about Christianity and Islam.
Christianity is basically a relationship between that person and Jesus whatever commandments Jesus said he/she must follow is to protect or keep them safe rather than harm them or be a burden to them. The Bible said I present before you life or death choose life.

As for the whole women issue I still think Islam does oppress women on a greater scale than cultures in the western world. For women who want to have themselves sexually exploited that is there choice. I for one think it's wrong but it is their choice, the freedom to choose whether it is right or wrong. How much freedom do women really have to make their own choice in Islam (I mean for those who for Islam die heartedly).

It is not a religion of peace, didn't the Muslim terrorist bomb the world trade center twice first the 1990's and then 2001? Even in these modern times in Dar four Sudan the Muslims are enslaving Christians because they refuse to convert to Islam this has been going for over 20 years.

- Tamara October 4, 2008 11:02AM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- Them, not Us.
  
  So, the people who call themselves Christian but go out and kill in the name of aren't Christians, but the people who call themselves Muslim and go out and kill in the name of really are Muslims.
  
  Riiiight. I missed the memo on that one.
  
  And I also missed the memo where if I save a life, it's not a good as when a "Christian" saves a life. Or any other act of kindness or goodness.
  
  Do you hear what you're saying? It's same brainwashed nonsense as any other religion. I'm right. You're wrong. Whatever I do is good, whatever you do isn't. I am good, you are not. I will get good things when I die, you will not. And so on and so forth.
  
  - SocialistBetty December 31, 2008 11:46AM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
No, that's religious percecution

Just because a very small group of terrorists are Muslim doesn't mean that every other Muslim is. Islam does not promote violence in its teachings, so the terrorists cannot even be accurately called Muslim. Adolf Hitler had some Catholic and Protestant beliefs, but that did not make everyone fear and suspect Christians. It is because we are scared of things that we don't know that we fear them.

- madninjamonkey December 14, 2008 10:30PM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Religion is the problem

That's right: ALL religion. Religion is a powerful force, turning people into sheep and indoctrinating them, keeping them from thinking for themselves. When religion teaches you to value an invisible sky man and an invisible cloud place more than human lives, you've got a problem.

- Blue Linchpin December 18, 2008 6:39PM

Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: No

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- Do the research
  
  "That's right: ALL religion. Religion is a powerful force, turning people into sheep and indoctrinating them, keeping them from thinking for themselves."
  
  Does this include Communism?
  
  BTW: Reaction to foreign policy is what motivates most terrorists. This is particularly the case with suicide bombers.
  
  http://www.impactlab.com/2006/06/13/study-suicide-bombers-not-crazy /
  
  http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2005-07/2005-07-22-voa1.cfm?CFID=81830339&CFTOKEN=59812972
  
  http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2008-03-15-iraq-study_N.htm
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_to_Win
  
  "When religion teaches you to value an invisible sky man and an invisible cloud place more than human lives, you've got a problem."
  
  Doesn't fit the profile of anyone I know.
  
  - F2XL December 20, 2008 12:43AM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
  - Bad argument
    
    So your argument is:
    
    -I'm wrong because I'm Communist (which shows how much you know about Communism)
    -Religion doesn't teach you to value things in heaven over things on Earth
    
    Okay, I can work with that.
    
    Firstly, if that's your opinion of Communism, more likely than not you're under the impression China and Russia were Communist. That's like thinking Zimbabwe is democratic because they pretend they are. So please, before telling me to do my research, do yours.
    
    Secondly, that is exactly what religion teaches. Your life in heaven is more important than your life on earth. And please: are you actually suggesting that no theist values their God more than human life? That's absurd.
    
    - Blue Linchpin December 20, 2008 9:08PM
    
    Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: No
    
    Thank You for your Comment
    
    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
    - Bad Straw man
      
      "So your argument is:
      
      -I'm wrong because I'm Communist (which shows how much you know about Communism)
      -Religion doesn't teach you to value things in heaven over things on Earth"
      
      Not entirely, the communism thing wasn't meant to be taken seriously. The second statement I feel is correct most of the time.
      
      "Firstly, if that's your opinion of Communism, more likely than not you're under the impression China and Russia were Communist. That's like thinking Zimbabwe is democratic because they pretend they are. So please, before telling me to do my research, do yours."
      
      I know, I know, it was just an aberration of Marx. I've heard that many times before. If that's the case, please point to a nation in which such a political/economic infrastructure is actually working as intended.
      
      "Secondly, that is exactly what religion teaches. Your life in heaven is more important than your life on earth."
      
      It's really stupid to criticize me as not knowing anything about communism and then make a totally dishonest statement about religious practices. Last time I checked, any religion that has a paradise for an afterlife stresses that the choices you make ON EARTH affect where you go AFTER death. I
      
      "And please: are you actually suggesting that no theist values their God more than human life? That's absurd."
      
      It would be absurd if I felt that description applied to all people who hold some form of theistic belief. This is not what I was arguing, my argument was that Islam left alone doesn't promote violence anymore than anything else. The studies I linked to clearly show, suicide bombers for instance, that there are far more exterior motives that have next to nothing to do with religion.
      
      - F2XL December 20, 2008 11:15PM
      
      Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
      
      Thank You for your Comment
      
      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
      - Answers
        
        First: Please point to a nation in which anarcho-capitalism, or any sort of capitalism, or any sort of government period works as intended.
        
        Second: I stand by my point, and you're basically arguing it for me. You do good here on earth, ie, God's work, for reward in heaven.
        
        And of course there are motives beyond religion. The problem is, religion trains you to value rewards in heaven above rewards here on earth, it stifles critical thinking and indoctrinates you, making you easier to control.
        
        - Blue Linchpin December 21, 2008 12:07AM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: No
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        No surprise there
        
        I'm not surprised that you dodged the original question of where in human society a communism-based infrastructure is or has thrived. Nonetheless...
        
        "First: Please point to a nation in which anarcho-capitalism,"
        
        http://www.ozarkia.net/bill/anarchism/faq.html #part18
        
        Pretty much any stateless society that allows business and commerce to provide goods, property, monetary systems, etc. generally is by definition an anarcho-capitalist set up. I like to think of Front Sight as an example but it's subject to US laws like anywhere else, though little would change if it were not subject to US laws. http://www.frontsight.com /
        
        "or any sort of capitalism,"
        
        Any sort of capitalism? I'm pretty sure (though it isn't quite a fully free market society) America and a growing number of nations in Europe fit that model just fine.
        
        "or any sort of government period works as intended."
        
        I'm not sure what you mean by "government period works as intended," I think I need your criteria for what government is.
        
        "Second: I stand by my point, and you're basically arguing it for me. You do good here on earth, ie, God's work, for reward in heaven."
        
        Right, and blowing yourself up to kill innocents generally isn't regarded as "good" by typical Islamic practice, the only reason you see such acts today is due to the fact that they feel they are threatened by constant US presence the world over and in their own homeland.
        
        "The problem is, religion trains you to value rewards in heaven above rewards here on earth,"
        
        Even if this were true for religion as a WHOLE, this does not mean the end result is always murder. For most cases the result would be the opposite; you kill, you burn (Whether this would really be the case is beyond anything I'm certain of).
        
        "it stifles critical thinking and indoctrinates you, making you easier to control."
        
        How so? I hear all kinds of complaint about how clearness of thought are impossible with some form of theistic belief, but I have yet to see evidence which confirms this.
        
        - F2XL December 21, 2008 2:19PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        Off topic
        
        It's not dodging: it's making a point. Even your examples weren't ideal or exactly anarcho-capitalist, and one could make a case for them being anarcho-communist instead. Not even America is really capitalist, but more a bad mix of state capitalism and socialism. My point being: Just because something hasn't happened ideally doesn't mean it shouldn't be strived for. Regardless, this is off topic, and if you want to bother me with this subject, I'd invite you to do it on my site. But that isn't what this topic is about.
        
        Of course that does not mean the end result is always murder. What it does mean is that what someone considers important might be skewed from reality, and make it easier to kill in the name of a God or cause.
        
        The very nature of religion stifles critical thinking and makes you easier to control. As no religion is capable of proving its point and instead relies on blind faith in teachings and priests/religious ministers, religious people would tend to be more open to changing their lives or doing things based purely on faith instead of any evidence.
        
        - Blue Linchpin December 21, 2008 4:52PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: No
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        More comments in this thread
      - That was your strawman...
        
        ...Bad straw man indeed. That was yours. You're the one who set him up with a big sign that said communism. Futher followed up by useless links pointing to defunct societies *that didn't work*. Also, Ireland before it was invaded was ruled by kings with little kingdoms. It was full of war and the same uselessness of so-called capitalism as anywhere else.
        
        Thirdly, the justification of acts perpetrated by those who believe in religion are done for the reward of an afterlife. If you get the right preacher/teacher, he can convince you that nearly anything you do is okay. Including marching off to war wearing a cross (as if that somehow fits into the teachings of Christ). Including blowing yourself up in a market place (as if that somehow fits into the teachings of Mohamed). Including bombing abortion clinics and killing doctors who perform them (as if this somehow fits into the teachings of Christ). Including kidnapping innocent health workers (as if this somehow fits into the teaching of Mohamed). ...You get the point.
        
        But... the reason why it's so easy for the right preacher/teacher to get these people to do those things isn't actually religion. It's the political/social/economic situations that have the greatest affect. Religion is just the hook.
        
        - SocialistBetty December 31, 2008 12:01PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: No
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        Time For a Lesson on What a Straw Man Actually is
        
        "...Bad straw man indeed. That was yours. You're the one who set him up with a big sign that said communism."
        
        Ahem... a STRAW MAN is an attack against an argument that ISN'T in any way relevant to what the opposing individual was referring to. I could be dead wrong, but I think it's name is derived from "Straw men" used as targets during both world wars. These targets didn't move, thus they were easier to hit then a REAL human target.
        
        Now back to what I posted regarding communism. What I responded to was the following:
        
        "That's right: ALL religion. Religion is a powerful force, turning people into sheep and indoctrinating them, keeping them from thinking for themselves."
        
        To which I asked:
        
        "Does this include Communism?"
        
        Now in that dialogue do you see any sign of me attacking an argument that wasn't BLP's? Any attempts to shoot down a talking point that they never brought up in the context of this particular debate topic? If you answered no, then you're getting in the habit of properly reading discourses before intervening in them (and that's a GOOD thing).
        
        "Futher followed up by useless links pointing to defunct societies *that didn't work*."
        
        Hmmmmmmmm, let's go back to that comment shall we?
        
        http://www.opposingviews.com/comments/no-surprise-there
        
        The title of the comment was a reference to the fact that BLP dodged my original question and tried to shift a non-existent burden of proof towards me. They asked ME if I could point to any societies that were ANARCHO-CAPITALIST that succeeded as a whole. So in turn, I provided a link to historical examples: http://www.ozarkia.net/bill/anarchism/faq.html
        
        And another link to a pseudo-anarcho-capitalist society in America: http://www.frontsight.com /
        
        "Also, Ireland before it was invaded was ruled by kings with little kingdoms. It was full of war and the same uselessness of so-called capitalism as anywhere else."
        
        From the first link I cited:
        
        "This society persisted in this libertarian path for roughly a thousand years until its brutal conquest by England in the seventeenth century."
        
        So much for the notion that it was ruled by kings and queens during the particular time frame I cited. And...... (from the very same link):
        
        "And, in contrast to many similarly functioning primitive tribes (such as the Ibos in West Africa, and many European tribes), preconquest Ireland was not in any sense a "primitive" society: it was a highly complex society that was, for centuries, the most advanced, most scholarly, and most civilized in all of Western Europe."
        
        So much for the uselessness of capitalism. And the usefulness of government.
        
        "Thirdly, the justification of acts perpetrated by those who believe in religion are done for the reward of an afterlife."
        
        As with BLP, you've missed my point altogether. Do people just magically decide one day to blow themselves up because some rabbi said they would be rewarded in heaven? Or is there a key factor which drives people to rationalize such thinking in the first place that might involve how we as a nation conduct ourselves throughout the world?
        
        "If you get the right preacher/teacher, he can convince you that nearly anything you do is okay."
        
        Now if that were true, I would expect to see a lot more jones town's or something similar. I doubt simple words pouring out of someone's mouth are the driving force behind those who blow themselves up in the name of fill in the blank.
        
        "Including marching off to war wearing a cross (as if that somehow fits into the teachings of Christ)."
        
        In such a situation I'm pretty sure it has more to do with a soldier wanting to defend his homeland from foreign threats, not because Jesus or something will pay them for it when they die.
        
        "Including blowing yourself up in a market place (as if that somehow fits into the teachings of Mohamed)."
        
        A study was just done on those very people, and religion played a VERY small role, if at all:
        
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_to_Win
        
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_to_Win #Ch._10:_The_Demographic_Profile_of_Suicide_Terrorists
        
        "Including bombing abortion clinics and killing doctors who perform them (as if this somehow fits into the teachings of Christ)."
        
        One would have to see such a procedure perform and THEN conclude it's just to do such a thing. A belief in some sort of deity isn't the root cause of this.
        
        "Including kidnapping innocent health workers (as if this somehow fits into the teaching of Mohamed). ...You get the point."
        
        Pretty sure such actions are carried out in retaliation for what we while deployed on their homeland.
        
        "But... the reason why it's so easy for the right preacher/teacher to get these people to do those things isn't actually religion. It's the political/social/economic situations that have the greatest affect. Religion is just the hook."
        
        Now I can agree with you.
        
        - F2XL January 10, 2009 2:36AM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        Well yeah...
        
        I was agreeing with you *mostly*... the main cause isn't religion... but in the minds of those people, it is. Even if they don't know it. It's the hook that pulls them in.
        
        And yes, the right preacher/teacher can manipulate you into believing that anything is acceptable.
        
        - SocialistBetty January 10, 2009 12:30PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: No
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        Ireland
        
        I happen to be Irish. As in: I'm Irish. My parents are Irish and I have lived in Ireland. It was a feudal society.
        
        - SocialistBetty January 10, 2009 3:17PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: No
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        More comments in this thread
        
        PLEASE run your sword through me....
        
        Does this include Communism?
        
        I don't know, but please attack this little guy (which I know you will because I know how you feel about communism and the misconceptions about it which still pervade society today) instead of the real argument. Thanks.
        
        ^
        |
        |
        
        That's you. Thanks for playing the "I'm so good at debating I resort to setting up straw men, claiming I didn't, and then claiming if there was a straw man, it wasn't mine." game. You've just won a free trip.
        
        - SocialistBetty January 10, 2009 3:24PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: No
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        More comments in this thread
Islams is not a religions of violence but a religion hijacked.

New debate, has Islam been hijacked by terrorists?

- The Other Conservative Guy January 22, 2009 9:40PM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Most religions encourage violence

I agree that most of the publicity nowadays is about Islam extremists blowing up something and killing 30 people or something, but i would also argue that most major religions encourage violence as well, Christianity, stoning the homosexuals, the Spanish inquisition, unless stoning and burning is like waterboarding, and isn't torture then it isn't violent, The recent invasion of Gaza by Israel, the assassination of Gandhi, the only religion i can think of that doesn't have an extensive history of violence is Buddhism. I say no because Islam has as much violence as other religions.

- Spikeman January 24, 2009 11:39AM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Faith + Church = Violence

I have come to the idea that all religions promote violence in one way or another, just not against your neighbor (assuming they are the same religion). Now, I know that many traditional text provide sayings of "peace" and "love" and "understanding", but the churches (and occasionally the text) do promote violence... in almost ANY religion. Crusades, Abraham and Isaac... etc.

- ckidwell7098 February 5, 2009 4:25PM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Islam or any other religion does not promote violence, Its the people

Isreal continues to commit acts of torture and violence and denies basic services to palestinians and can still be called a civil state, why? because it a huge lobby and owns media outlets and have people in positions that influences the news we see in u.s.

If a person in santa clause killing his ex-wife and burns down the house is not a christian issue then this also is not an islamic issue. it is individuals who are committing this abhorring acts, these are not religiously mandated.

If a woman drowns her children in N.C, if a woman drowns her sons in a tub in texas, if a child(caylee) is found buried in florida, if a child is beaten to death by boyfriend of mom, jon banet is found dead in boulder, all happen to be christians then it does not mean it is christianity that is propogating it.

I can take verses from any religious book and take them out of context to prove that a religion is propogating violence.

lets not get carried away into same old stereotype rhetoric of blaming religion/god for all human mistakes.

God creates a human as a baby, pure and clean. it is the soceity and situations and upbringing that makes the child whatever he/she becomes.

the problem is that the world population has increased by dozens of folds and times are getting harder and populations are being migrated due to wars etc. and "me" and "this is mine" mentality is increasing. fear and love of god is out of picture till something bad happens like this.
Instead of finding the devil inside our soceities/communities and trying to deal with it. we start blaming god and its commandments.

we want to blame someone other than us and move on with the heavenly life we are trying to live on this earth.
Isn't that a denial ?

- mohammad February 17, 2009 7:58AM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
A misleading debate

Almost all religions promote violence. To single one out is absurd. Just read the bible and you will find tons of support for violence - especially against non believers.
This just presents a biased platform for people to vent their bigotry.

- mangueken March 5, 2009 2:31PM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Uncommitted

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- I both agree and fundamentally disagree.
  
  It is a misleading debate. That being said, I would argue that while there are some aspects of most religions that can be used to support violence, the vast body of most religions support peace. That being said, there are radical elements who use their religion to promote violence. (KKK, Taliban, AL Qaeda, Crusaders, Conquistadores, etc.) That being said, they are the exceptions, and not the rule.
  Before reading your post, I would have argued that it is a valid debate, as to whether or not Islam primarily promotes violence or peace, as it does have much more advocacy of violence in its religious text than the other two Abrahamic religions. Now that I have seen your response, I can see that it is more a place to spout bigotry, and I am disgusted by yours.
  
  - richardsonkr March 8, 2009 10:11AM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
  - How?
    
    I would more than welcome a document that quantifies the violence in each holy book so that we could then actually compare them and see which one is more violent.
    
    - mangueken March 8, 2009 10:59AM
    
    Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Uncommitted
    
    Thank You for your Comment
    
    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
    - It exists.
      
      Well, rather, they exist. They're called the Torah, the Bible, and the Koran. Read them. You'll see it. That being said, I don't think that Islam promotes violence, nor did I ever say that. You fail to realize that that was the least significant bit of my comment. The main part was pointing out that calling your opponents bigots because they disagree with you and deriding their religion as violent is bigotry. The other bit was about how religion is mostly a peaceful force. The fact that the Koran advocates slightly more extreme measures in the spreading of Islam than the Bible does Christianity (the Torah doesn't even advocate the spreading of Judaism) is ultimately irrelevant, because all three of them (and most other religions) are ultimately a force of peace, not violence.
      Way to latch onto the least important part of the argument, though.
      
      - richardsonkr March 8, 2009 11:34AM
      
      Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
      
      Thank You for your Comment
      
      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
      - You have a hard time
        
        prove what you said and we'll discuss it. other than that you're just spouting off like the rest.
        
        - mangueken March 8, 2009 12:21PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Uncommitted
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        Prove which?
        
        I said many things.
        
        - richardsonkr March 8, 2009 12:24PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        you'll figure it out
        
        I think you have a good chance.
        
        - mangueken March 8, 2009 3:25PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Uncommitted
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        More comments in this thread
Misconceptions of Islam

I have been living in America for my whole entire life and my family is from Pakistan. Being from Pakistan, following Islam, and looking middle eastern I get a lot of racist comments from the people here being called a terrorist all the time. The only reason for them doing this is what these people see from the media . "Terrorist attacks all over the world done by radical "Islamic" milatants." All these ignorant people just think, Islam = Terrorism. Have any of you even once tried to see what Islam is? Besides using sources such as the media who only give you a one sided story that focuses on all the bad things that the islamic terrorists and that all Muslims are bad. All of you people that say that the Quran promotes violence, have you even ever tried to read the Quran to see what it actually says? Have you ever tried to research what the scholars of Islam who have alot of Islamic knowledge say? I'm guessing that you have never done any of this. How about that for once all of you people who say that Islam promotes violence, go and see what Islam actually is, then come back and comment here.

I mean since now in this era, most of the terrorists are supposed "Muslims" that apparently means that all Muslims are bad. But since the Nazis were Christian or some other religion it doesnt matter because I just dont want Islam to be right. That is the ideology of an ignorant person. I also hate it when there is like a shooting or somthing and the guy who does it is white, so then after the incident they conclude that the guy had a mental problem. Like in that shooting incident somewhere in the southern states just this year and also that bombing in oklahoma. So since they were mental, it was okay and it isnt considered a crime . Now if a Muslim or middle eastern person were to do this the fisrt assumption would be.... AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! TERRORIST ATTACK!!!!!!!!!!
I mean talk about being racist and religious discrimination .

- faqfaraan April 21, 2009 7:57PM

Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: No

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- Friends.
  
  The problem is that the people that think Muslims are all violent get their opinion from the news. Having had friends that were Muslims I have found that they set an example that would put most Christians to shame.
  
  - mike1948 August 3, 2009 11:05AM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
No

How can I say no? Well simply because of the fact that the religion in itself does NOT promote violence. BUT terrorists twist it to say that there actions are justified by religion. I myself am a Christian and a Proud American, but I'm not gonna make the religion of Islam my enemy but the people who twist the religion to justify their violent actions my enemy.

- Dylandts August 13, 2009 8:22PM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Birds of A Feather

Islam itself is probably not meant to be so radical, but that is the face it shows the world. I could not tolerate the anti-American and anti-Sematic rhetoric in 11 (yes, 11) mosques (deliberately uncapitalized for these 11 specifics) to learn enough to have an educated opinion on the religion itself. I've met a lot of people from many walks of life and each is quite unique; however, the seeming hunger or desire for blood seems to be most heavily an Islamic trait. Birds of a feather flock together goes an old saying and radicals come in droves to the islamic religion.

- Real American Dad November 5, 2009 6:57PM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument

Violence Pervades Muslim World

- From American Values

Open Argument Go to this Argument

Islam as the common denominator

Correlation does not prove causation.

- BLMQ August 5, 2008 9:43AM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Uncommitted

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- No, but when the religious leaders call for violence,
  
  you don't need statistics to see what is happening.
  
  You have a Palestinian fatwa sanctioning killing Israeli children because they might grow up to be the enemy. You have Saudis teaching that in the last days the very trees and stones will call to Muslims to kill.
  
  Compare that to the Dalai Lama who threatened to resign if his people resorted to violence. Islamic leaders have the ability to restrain violence. Sistani of Iraq is one example. But the vast majority of Muslim leaders seem to stoke violence rather than promote peace.
  
  - AlibiFarmer September 5, 2008 3:36PM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Some Muslims are just plain delusional

First, there was the prominent Muslim who sought a boycott of Starbucks because their logo was Queen Esther. Where is she now that Persia needs her? Second, there was the imam who was immortalized by MEMRI for calling for a boycott of PEPSI which we all know stands for P (Pay) E (Every) P (Penny) to S (Save) I (Israel). Perhaps they get this stuff from the section of the Q'uran with the talking rock that tells a Muslim that there is a Jew hiding behind it. Someone must be slipping something into their hookahs! Must be the Mossad.

- Rashi18 June 22, 2009 3:13PM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Objection

Violence is not Dependent on Religion

- From MPAC

Open Objection Go to this Objection

yes Violence is not Dependent on Religion

its dependent on government and their politic

- joolaee September 9, 2008 9:53AM

Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- Agreed
  
  While I did think for a sec that Islam was a cause for violence now I think it AT BEST serves as a catalyst. Most of the people who become convinced that suicide bombing their way to paradise is the way to go often do so because of certain foreign policy interventions of foreign nations.
  
  - F2XL September 28, 2008 12:30PM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
  - First of all, it is necessary to define what we mean by violence
    
    Despite the presence of violence in many regions of the world ranging from Ireland to Lebanon to the Pacific Basin and involving many religions from Christianity to Hinduism, the Western world associates Islam more than any other religion with violence. The Muslim conquest of Spain, the Crusades - which were not begun by Muslims -, and the Ottoman domination of Eastern Europe have provided a historical memory of Islam as being related to force and power. Moreover, the upheavals of the past few decades in the Middle East and especially movements using the name of Islam and seeking to solve problems of the Muslim world created by conditions and causes beyond the control of Muslims have only reinforced the idea prevalent in the West that in some special way Islam is related to violence.
    
    - joolaee September 28, 2008 11:39PM
    
    Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes
    
    Thank You for your Comment
    
    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Islam is always oppressive

I challenge MPAC to prove to us that Islam ruled countries grant the same freedoms as to, lets say the United States, Britain, Japan, etc.

All Islamic ruled countries are oppressive by nature. They tax non-Muslims in order to 'put them under submission' as the Quran teaches.

Christians are tolerated, monitored and controlled just as in China. If they violate the Sharia laws then they're beaten or killed.

Name an Islamic country that doesn't do "any" of these things.

- michaelz January 7, 2009 5:11PM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- How reasonable
  
  to speak in terms of "always" and "never".
  
  That's aside the point. What are you doing is taking the oppression of government and turning it into "Islam".
  
  The majority of people are oppressed in this world. I don't see you saying that Chinese people promote violence. Of course the Chinese government does... but that doesn't mean the majority - Wait, let me say that again - the MAJORITY of Chinese people promote violence.
  
  And here we are, degrading our manufacturing base, creating huge trade deficits, selling off our debt to the Chinese, and that's okay. A country and kills and tortures, oppresses those who disagree with them, murders, imprisons, etcetera...
  
  But whatever. The point is that the *MAJORITY* of Islamic people are non-violent and you choose to ignore this.
  
  How very Christian of you, by the way. I'm sure your pseudo-Christian ideals tell you it's okay to demonize an entire group of people for the actions of others.
  
  - SocialistBetty January 11, 2009 3:10PM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument

Islamic Terrorism: A Faith-Based Initiative

- From American Values

Open Argument Go to this Argument

Be the first to comment.

Regarding Argument

Muslim Religious Leaders Promote Culture of Violence

- From American Values

Open Argument Go to this Argument

Muslim Leaders Condemn Terrorism

Too many people claim that Muslim leaders do not condemn terrorism, that they actually promote it. In fact, while a few individuals call for terrorism, the vast majority of Muslim leaders clearly condemn terrorism, suicide bombings, FGM, and all forms of violence. These leaders have issued fatwas against violence, and have clearly explained the the Qur'an requires that terrorists will "never see Paradise", that they will burn in hellfire.

You can find a compilation of condemnation from over 4,200 Muslim political and spiritual leaders, journalists, authors, and advocates worldwide at http://facts-not-fear.blogspot.com

- RevJimSutter March 20, 2009 8:45AM

Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: No

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument

A Minority View?

- From American Values

Open Argument Go to this Argument

Be the first to comment.

Regarding Argument

Muslim Outrage Part of Intimidation Campaign

- From American Values

Open Argument Go to this Argument

Yes.... Islam promote Violence....

Yes.... Islam promote Violence....To those who dont understand orknow Islam.. Please go to>> http://www.freeman.org/m_online/mar04/sharon.htm
Subjet:
AGENDA OF ISLAM - A WAR BETWEEN CIVILIZATIONS
By Professor Moshe Sharon. It will explain all about Islam... Where Islam rules there is war, poverty, sickness….. All terrorism conducted by Muslims…… Not all Muslims are terrorists... But all terrorists are Muslims

- COCO May 17, 2009 11:13PM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument

A Culture of Death

- From American Values

Open Argument Go to this Argument

Does Christianity Promote Violence?

Have we forgotten about the Crusades? The witch hunts? The vicious past of Christianity?

Can we correlate the vicious nature of these events in Western history to the teachings of Christianity, whose god is a god of love and acceptance? No, of course not. Those atrocities were committed by people under the guise of religion, but whose motivation was anything but spiritual.

Likewise with the Islamic faith. You cannot correlate the fanatic martyrs with the teachings of Islam. That is just foolishness.

It is not a religious belief which promotes violence, but rather, it is a cultural ideology, often with political origins. Those in the Western world attributing violence to the Islamic religion should then be expected to be accountable in the same way for the terrible history of the Christians in the Western world.

- Ralfe Poisson August 6, 2008 9:44PM

Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: No

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- Faith Leads to Violence
  
  There are only two ways that humans can deal with one another: either by the use of reason, or by force. Anytime a people subordinates reason to faith, their culture will descend into violence. Even though Jesus preached pacifism, once his followers discarded reason in favor of faith, they could justify any act of violence in the name of God. It was only with the rediscovery of the value of reason in the Renaissance that Europeans began to pull themselves up out of barbarism.
  
  The difference between Christianity and Islam, is that Christianity is apolitical. It does not require theocracy on principle, even though that is where it will lead to if practiced consistently. As long as Christians are able to compartmentalize their faith--tuck it into the corner of their brain that deals with the existence of God--while making use of reason in the rest of their life, they can support a society in which the initiation of force is outlawed.
  
  This is not easily done under Islam, because the Koran is not just a set of precepts for personal morality, it is a blueprint for theocracy. Faith in God is the law of the land, and dissenters must be put to death. There is no breathing room for the free use of reason. There is no parallel to this in the teachings of Jesus. He explicitly rejected the establishment of an earthly kingdom. That is why reason was able (barely) to establish a foothold in Christian lands.
  
  None of that is meant to excuse the problems of Christianity, but I think it explains why Islam is so much worse as a religion.
  
  - Ardsgaine September 27, 2008 1:52PM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- I totally agree with your idea.
  
  Sometimes, it seems like people forget the lesson of past human history. It's really sad thing for all of us.
  I think we need to think about through the eyes of each counterpart when we face some problems to deal with and to discuss with people who have different opinions and thoughts each other. For example, America sees islamic terrorists as their enemy who U.S says, should be eliminated for America's safety but Islamic people or the terrorists see America killing innocent people in Iraq or somewhere else as the terrorist threatening their daily life and dignity.
  
  - Karpin January 22, 2009 9:45AM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: No
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
really?

"what is perceived by palestinian's as the unjust occupation of their land". is that to say that a group of people absent from the region in large numbers for millenia has a right to the land that people who trace their roots there before during and after the first left? granted they were for the most part forcibly removed but their descendants had no actual connection to the land. It doesnt matter much though since immigration to israel has slowed as well as their birth rate while the palestinian population living in that country and refugees in other countries continues to explode.

- ignint October 1, 2008 9:44AM

Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: No

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Some religions develop morality

Back in the Crusades, the Christian Crusaders conquered Jerusalem, rounded up all the Jews there, put them in the largest synagogue, and burnt it to the ground.

From 1648 to 1649, there was a period known as Tak V'Tak. During that time Hetman Bogdan Chimeilniki (probably spelled incorrectly), a Polish Cossack warlord, killed several hundred thousand Jews and destroyed their towns. That was in the name of Christianity.

Page forward, and we find many good Christians who saved Jews during the Holocaust.

What of Islam? I recommend that you visit www.thereligionofpeace.com for a real eye-opener. I don't CAIR what anyone says. Islam promotes homicide and genocide.

- Rashi18 September 30, 2009 12:55PM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument

The Qur’an Promotes Violence

- From Jihad Watch

Open Argument Go to this Argument

whole sura

before judging you should read each verse (ayah) in the context.
One should not separate a comment from its context because it may be connected with other sentences meaningly.

To study the whole sura (Ultimatum) you can follow the link below:

http://www.efarsi.org/quran/sura9.htm

- lili August 3, 2008 12:18AM

Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: Uncommitted

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
NO NIT-PICKING

This is the equivalent of taking specific passages from the Bible, like in Samuel 15:1 thru 15:34 (where the events that happened can only be described as genocide carried out in God's name), and saying that the Bible promotes ruthless violence.

Islamic terrorists represent all of Islam as much as Fred Phelps and his church represent all of Christianity.

- NCHammer326 September 3, 2008 8:53PM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Both the Bible and the Koran can be used to justify violence.

Both the Bible and the Koran can be and have been used to justify violence and cruelty. There is no getting round this. All can be faulted in this way. It is only when people of all religious persuasions renounce violence that we can hope for any lasting peace.

- Michael Glass December 6, 2008 10:34PM

Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: Uncommitted

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- God never promotes violence against innocents.
  
  In the Christian and Jewish scriptures God is never found giving a command to kill innocents and the righteous. God never commands to kill others just simply because they don't believe Him.
  
  Please read the Bible throughly. God only commanded the destruction of peoples who totally abandoned morality and righteousness. Those nations that the nation of Israel was commanded to destroy were nations that sacrificed their children to the fire in worship of demon gods or gave themselves over to every kind of debasing form of lust.
  
  God tells Abraham that his decendents will go into captivity in Egypt hundreds of years before it happens, when He tells him, God also reveals to Abraham how the sins of the Amorites are not enough for God to judge them.
  
  Genesis 15:13-16 (ESV) "13 Then the Lord said to Abram, 'Know for certain that your offspring will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs [Egypt] and will be servants there, and they will be afflicted for four hundred years. 14 But I will bring judgment on the nation that they serve, and afterward they shall come out with great possessions. 15 As for yourself, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried in a good old age. 16 And they shall come back here in the fourth generation, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”
  
  However, the god of Islam, "allah" is not the same god of the Jews and Christians. Mohammad progressively moves toward a more aggressive stance and after being rejected as a prophet by the Jews, becomes enraged with pure evil and hatred, thereby commanding all his followers to kill anyone who won't convert to Islam.
  
  - michaelz January 6, 2009 1:30PM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
  - What never?
    
    Michael Z says:
    
    "In the Christian and Jewish scriptures God is never found giving a command to kill innocents and the righteous. God never commands to kill others just simply because they don't believe Him."
    
    If there is ONE incident in the whole of the Bible where God or the LORD commands indiscriminate slaughter then this statement is demonstrably false.
    
    - Michael Glass January 6, 2009 10:27PM
    
    Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Uncommitted
    
    Thank You for your Comment
    
    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
    - Yes, Never.
      
      I'm sure you don't agree with what I'm about to say, but that's OK with me because it's not my opinion, but God's truth.
      
      All humans are guilty. There are no true innocents. There are only degrees of sinners. We're all sinners. We all fall short of God's holy and righteous glory.
      
      [Psalm 51:5 ESV] "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." -King David of Israel. (He doesn't mean he was born from an illegitimate relationship)
      
      [Romans 3:10 ESV] - "as it is written: 'None is righteous, no, not one;'"
      
      [Ezekiel 33:13 ESV] - "'Though I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, yet if he trusts in his righteousness and does injustice, none of his righteous deeds shall be remembered, but in his injustice that he has done he shall die."
      
      God's standards are high and He expects us to be perfect, so that's why He had to come to us Himself as the Son, Jesus Christ, and satisfy His own standard for righteousness in our stead, and died in our place.
      
      This is the grace and mercy of the true God, not Islam's. Islam's god wants you to meet a standard and if not your dead. Too bad for you. There is no plan by Islam's god for a substitute Redeemer.
      
      No so with the true God. However, people love their self-righteousness and sins and so they hate Jesus Christ, because they have to live honestly and truthfully; confessing their sins openly.
      
      - michaelz January 7, 2009 7:06AM
      
      Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes
      
      Thank You for your Comment
      
      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
      - Examples of indiscriminate slaughter in the Bible.
        
        The command for the slaughter of men, women, children and babies in Ai:
        
        "Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not fear or be dismayed: take all the fighting men with you, and go up now to Ai. I have handed over to you the king of Ai with his people, his city, and his land. You shall do to Ai and its king as you did to Jericho and its king;" Joshua 8:2
        
        So what did they do to Jericho?
        
        "Then they devoted to destruction by the edge of the sword all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and donkeys." Joshua 6:21.
        
        Jericho and Ai are two examples of genocide by order of the LORD. It is texts like this that explain why a crazy like Baruch Goldstein went on a rampage of killing in modern-day Israel.
        
        Is the Koran any better? Of course not! That is why I stated that both the Bible and the Koran can be used and have been used to promote violence.
        
        - Michael Glass January 8, 2009 7:37AM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Uncommitted
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        Do some deeper research.
        
        Michael Glass,
        
        You should really do some deeper research into the practices of the people of Jericho and Ai.
        
        Let me give you some questions to ask and research.
        
        Did they (people of Jericho and Ai) do likewise to the peoples around them? Did they go out and wipe out villages indiscriminately? Was God repaying them for the same evil they perpetrated on others?
        
        You are jumping to conclusions without doing the fact finding.
        
        What if in the future people said that the English and the rest of the Allies were perpetrators of violence and evil on Europe and the Germans during the 1940's. Ignoring the fact that Hitler and his Reich were murdering millions of Jews in ovens, and dropping bombs on England.
        
        - michaelz January 8, 2009 9:05AM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        Your argument falls down
        
        Even if the men and women of Jericho and Ai slaughter their neighbours, does this justify genocide?
        
        If there is evidence that they behaved just as badly towards their neighbours, does this justify the indiscriminate slaughter of children?
        
        You made the claim that God never promotes violence against innocents. I gave two instances of the slaughter of children as part of an act of genocide when the ancient Israelites invaded the promised land and dispossessed the people who lived there. These two instances occurred, we are told, because the LORD told them to do it. Now you mightn't like me calling it genocide. You might quibble about who was innocent and what this means. However, there is no getting around the text that the LORD ordered the mass slaughter of the people of Jericho and Ai.
        
        I put it to you that your statement about God never promoting violence against innocents is either false, or it is a trick, as no-one is really innocent. Or, maybe, you would argue that God and the LORD are not the same.
        
        Once more I state that both the Bible and the Koran can be used and have been used to promote violence.
        
        - Michael Glass January 8, 2009 3:35PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Uncommitted
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        More comments in this thread

Regarding Argument

Muhammad Does, too

- From Jihad Watch

Open Argument Go to this Argument

Be the first to comment.

Regarding Argument

Classic Islamic Law Also Promotes Violence

- From Jihad Watch

Open Argument Go to this Argument

Be the first to comment.

Regarding Argument

Terrorists Today Use Islam to Justify Their Acts of Violence

- From Jihad Watch

Open Argument Go to this Argument

Just like Christians

Islam does not promote more violence than Christianity. Religion far too often is used just for persuasion or reason for military conflict. Crusades, Reconquista and Jihad are just few for example.
And it does not matter which holy book to cite - Qur’an or Bible, any of those have some neat expressions: "The LORD said to Moses, "Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the LORD, so that the LORD's fierce anger may turn away from Israel""
(Numbers 25:14)

- ctrnz August 25, 2008 6:45AM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Christians today use Christianity to Justify Their Acts of Violence

You will scoff at this, but it is a perfectly fair comparison.

Christians use Christianity and the Bible to justify their acts of violence and discrimination towards Muslims, both Muslim Americans and Middle Eastern Muslims.

President Bush himself claims spiritual insight in the inception of the Iraq war.

But the facts are the facts. Terrorists have killed less than eight thousand Americans since the year 2000. Americans have killed over 100,000 Middle Easterners since the year 2000.

You can hate Muslims and terrorism all you want, but at the end of the day, Americans and our Christian leadership have caused multitudes more death and suffering. You can argue logistics, semantics, intentions, and 'what's right'. But admit it -- Christianity has caused another war in the world against a Muslim nation. And like the Crusades, we are in a bloody, endless war against a religion, justified by 'our' religion.

- betterth October 21, 2008 9:31AM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument

Islam and Violence

- From MPAC

Open Argument Go to this Argument

Every region has tensions.

But Islamic leaders and scholars seem unique in the spiritual realm for egging on their disciples to kill both their enemies and the innocent. The Dalai Lama threatens to resign if his countrymen cannot forswear violence. Imans preach hatred not only of other faiths, but even of other Muslims who diverge from their views.

- AlibiFarmer September 3, 2008 2:25PM

Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
I realize you cant generalize about a group of people but

according to their own Bible they are against anyone who is considered and infidel and anyone who rejects Islamic faith is an infidel. Also they see nothing wrong with committing acts of violence against someone who is deemed an infidel. So the answer is YES they are a violent religion , per se, as Mormonism is founded on a false prophet, Joseph Smith, so is Islam.
I put my trust in my faith, not in what I do for my religion, or what I give to them or how I sacrafice my life, etc, I trust the Hebrew Gd of heaven, the only living Gd, for my salvation, and nothing else can buy it or earn it. Salvation is by grace of Gd alone.

- angelmama August 14, 2009 5:52AM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- Look at our history.
  
  Are there parts of the Koran that promote violence against non-believers, yes. Are there things in the Bible that promote violence against non-believers, yes. Looking at the history of both religions, is there any reason to think that one is any more violent then the other? No!
  
  - mike1948 August 14, 2009 11:52AM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
  - Primary word is HISTORY
    
    Have you ever seen a person stuck in the sixties? Its a pathetic thing. They dress old fashion, they just cant get out of that era.
    The OT is full of violence and the NT is not. While we dont throw out the old, like Obamas health care plan would, we embrace the NT more. Problem is they are living the OT and are stuck in a time warp.They are more dangerous. Whens the last time you witnessed a ban of Christians wearing masks and tying up some one and setting them on fire or beheading them...seen it recently....didnt think so.
    
    - angelmama August 17, 2009 1:50PM
    
    Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes
    
    Thank You for your Comment
    
    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
    - I liked the 60's.
      
      This from someone who thinks the world was created in six days? I didn't say there wasn't any violence in the Muslim world but I have Muslim friends. Judging all Muslims because of a few is like judging the pro-life movement by a few people that have killed abortion doctors . There are a lot of Muslims in the world and only a few are violent.
      
      - mike1948 August 17, 2009 2:51PM
      
      Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
      
      Thank You for your Comment
      
      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
      - Those few are spoiling the whole batch
        
        Those few killed over 2,000 people in NY Sept.11, 2001.Those few people are making the whole batch look badly. They are criminal and they do not care about America or any other religious country. They hate you and would kill you in a minute, because you live in America and America to them is evil because of its promiscuity and lack of moral living. How do you stop such a band of terrorism from hyjacking the mainstream of that religion ? If you could answer that we would avoid alot of unnecessary deaths from war and criminal activity. Come to think of it its much like the homosexual movement..huh. A vicious band of them are also hyjacking and criminalizing our country.If you can stop the one from terrorizing our country and those who support us then maybe you could stop the other from destroying our country from the inside out too.
        
        - angelmama August 18, 2009 4:26PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        Those few.
        
        Remember that when you criticize blacks, gays, Muslims, ect. It is always a small number within any group that gives people an excuse to be prejudice against the whole group. Muslims are not any more violent then any other group.
        
        - mike1948 August 18, 2009 10:31PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: No
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        quite
        
        Islam promotes violence no more then Christianity does.
        
        - MrBook September 9, 2009 7:01AM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
    - South
      
      If you are interested there is a group in the south that engaged in such activities well into the 1980s.
      
      - MrBook August 25, 2009 6:26PM
      
      Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
      
      Thank You for your Comment
      
      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
      - And, with Gods help we shall say the same one day about
        
        the practice of homosexuality .
        
        - angelmama August 28, 2009 1:43PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        equivocation
        
        How does homosexuality compare to the actions of the KKK? Have they burned down churches? Lynched straight people? Burned crosses on the yards of straight people?
        
        - MrBook August 28, 2009 4:58PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- You got that right
  
  Amen
  
  - countryboy August 15, 2009 10:17PM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
  - The difference.
    
    We are in agreement on a lot of issues and I respect your opinion. I think we differ on whether Islam promotes violence or not because I have had Muslim friends.
    
    - mike1948 August 15, 2009 10:43PM
    
    Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
    
    Thank You for your Comment
    
    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
    - BIg
      
      Yes islam does promote violences.Take it from a old back woods preacher convert one to christ.They will kill the convert And at best shun them out of the family.
      
      - countryboy August 15, 2009 11:11PM
      
      Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes
      
      Thank You for your Comment
      
      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Objection

Moderate Muslim Leaders Must Stand Up

- From American Values

Open Objection Go to this Objection

Compared to Europe over the past couple of centuries

I think the middle east is relatively peaceful!
And mainstream imams preach to avoid violence at all costs. Not one will support unneccessary violence and never does Islam permit the killing of innocents because the ends does not justify the means in Islam

- moemin05 September 8, 2008 3:13PM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument

Jihad Means Striving, Not Holy War

- From MPAC

Open Argument Go to this Argument

Holy War

The Crusades, though in execution nothing for Christians to be proud of, were an effort to reply to the violent conquest of Christian occupied land by the Muslim armies from the East.

- aramkr March 7, 2009 7:58PM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Mein Kampf = my struggle = Jihad

That Jihad means struggle and not war is just good spin. Hitler was also good at spin. Some books have caused a lot of human suffering before antidotes for the "idea viruses" they contained were understood. Some of the worst are:
1) The Communist Manifesto
2) Mein Kampf
3) The Quran

- goodmen777 March 9, 2009 8:06AM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument

Avoid the Double Standards

- From MPAC

Open Argument Go to this Argument

Be the first to comment.

Regarding Objection

Not Quite a Double Standard

- From American Values

Open Objection Go to this Objection

Be the first to comment.

Regarding Argument

The Tenets of Islam are Similar to Judaism and Christianity

- From ADC

Open Argument Go to this Argument

Negative as well as positives

The argument above is correct, unfortunately. What that means to me is that Islam is no BETTER than Christianity or Judaism, because all religions have teachings and depict incidents in their scriptures that promote violence. Thus Muslim attempts to compare their faith with religions more prevalent in the Western world actually backfire, since these religions are actually losing ground to secularism. Once you assume that everything in either the Bible or the Quran is of God, no matter how disgusting it is from a modern perspective, you risk lives, including your own. We need to get rid of that blind assumption, from Muslims, Jews and Christians alike, before we can say that they are truly peaceful religions. If the people are violent by nature, the violent elements in religion makes them worse, not better.

- Dale Husband October 10, 2008 7:29PM

Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Argument

Islam is a Misunderstood Religion

- From ADC

Open Argument Go to this Argument

So - Speak out !

Sadly, I do not know enough about the religion to form an intelligent opinion based upon facts. However, if Islam is truly the misunderstood religion you claim, why then are there not more Muslims speaking out with strong and loud voices, denouncing the evil acts of those who behave so violently and viciously and claim that it is the will of Allah? Their vicious and violent acts do not “seem questionable” – they are abominable and uncivilized . Muslim leaders the world over need to address this publicly, much more than has been done up until now. Yes, here and there some do speak out against the terroristic acts, but they are in the minority and few and far between.

Your last sentence does not speak to the question you are trying to answer. The question is: ‘Does Islam promote violence?” Nobody has said that Muslims are inherently violent. I agree. That would be ridiculous. It does seem though, that it seems to promote violence in people who were not born that way.

- redondo July 17, 2008 11:26PM

Reply to this Recommend (3) Side: Uncommitted

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- there have been condemnations
  
  of killing innocent people (terrorism), by very important scholars and organisations, but they are not coordinated well (because internally most muslim countries are struggling for democracy against oppressive regimes so it logically follows that they won't function properly or represent the will of the majority while this is happening) and also they are rarely reported in media outlets for two reasons; one is that translation is a bit monopolised to/from mideastern languages by an Israeli organisation (MEMRI) and the other is that most large western media outlets are in private hands.
  
  - moemin05 September 8, 2008 3:21PM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
  - But not enough condemnations
    
    Your point is well-taken. However, I feel that there have not been enough people in the American Muslim community right here in the U.S.A. who have really spoken out in sufficient numbers, with strong voices and with great frequency.
    
    - redondo September 9, 2008 2:14PM
    
    Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Uncommitted
    
    Thank You for your Comment
    
    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
    - Maybe North American Muslims need to be more politically active
      
      Maybe North American Muslims need to be more politically active
      I certainly know that this is the case here in the UK (where I live). The main reason here may be that muslims aren't just used to being politically active - and muslim political organisations need to sort out their leadership and running mechanisms properly to make them efficient enough to function! It is their job to encourage people and channel their views to the general public.
      
      - moemin05 September 11, 2008 3:48PM
      
      Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
      
      Thank You for your Comment
      
      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
      - They need to be more vocal
        
        I really do not know why they are not more vocal here in the states. It might be that since 9/11, too many Americans seem to lump muslims together with terrorists. This is most unfortunate, but this could possibly be a reason why they are not more outspoken and prefer to keep a low profile. This is really too bad because we mainly hear about the bad people and hardly hear anything from the good people.
        
        - mellis September 12, 2008 2:06PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: Uncommitted
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Islam is indeed misunderstood

The main problem is that Islam seems to be misunderstood by most *moderate* Muslims. If they were to read the Koran they would see that it does literally promote violence. Saying that a call to kill infidels means something different today than it did hundreds of years ago is simply ignoring the meaning.
"The religion of Islam does not promote violence."
Simply saying this does not make it true, however much you would like this to be the case. The evidence, written in the Koran, contradicts you.
"To suggest that 1.5 Muslims are somehow inherently violent is ridiculous and Islamophobic."
Where in the original post is it asserted that Muslims are "inherently" violent? Nowhere. You have simply erected an emotionally charged straw man.

- bpdlr July 24, 2008 3:29AM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Have you read the Koran?

In order to see what a religion promotes, you must look to their texts. Obviously with in Islam, just as within Christianity or any other religion, there are many disagreements on what the text means. When you look to the Koran you find similar teachings as the bible- love, and nonviolence. To those who disagree I pose the question- have you read the Koran? Also I'd like to point out the hypocrisy of Christians who argue that Islam preaches violence- crusades anyone? (i'm christian, by the way) What we have to realize is that Islam is not inherently violent, and vastly misunderstood. It is the radical interpretation of Islam that is violent, not islam itself.

- jdefriez August 6, 2008 3:08PM

Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: No

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- What defines a religion isn't the text - it's how it's interepreted.
  
  Like Christianity, there is enough in the Koran to find what you look for. Clearly a VERY large number of Muslims interpret the Koran as an incitement to violence. There were Christian monks during the Crusades who didn't participate - who kept to peaceful ways, but the in main, I would have to say Christianity was not a force for peace during that time.
  
  So it is with Islam today. Until the advocates of violence and murder are cast out and repudiated by the rest of the religious establishment, Islam will remain a source of, rather than a refuge from, violence.
  
  - AlibiFarmer September 9, 2008 8:40AM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Today, yes, Islam has been hijacked

The crusades and the Spanish inquisition are over. Today, the hijacked religion is Islam. New leaders need to stand up, expose the false teachers, and shut down the schools that promote violence. Otherwise, non-Muslims are going to view Muslims exactly the way that Muslims viewed the crusaders of old. They already do. Thus this discussion.

It's not complicated or hard to understand. Fix it or force other religions to react in kind, or worse. In the long run, Jihad only works on pacifists. If the proliferation of Islam was the goal, then attacking the USA on 9/11/2001 was strategic idiocy. Look what the result of Pearl Harbor was on Japan. Take a lesson from Japan. Islam needs to get anybody that thought that 9/11 was a good idea out of their leadership loop.

- joelinda September 8, 2008 9:25PM

Reply to this Recommend (1) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
The books were "revealed"?

Do you imply the books existed before people wrote them? Whose library card did that come off of?

Every religion has a book with hate cruelty and violence associated with it. Unfortunately Islam has the preponderance of advocates, that take the words in the books with the old interpretation as still valid or true. About the only religion that I can find that does not promote violence is the pagans. They have been mis-characterized by other religions, but there is no scripture they have that promotes violence by their goddess.

As long as the adherents choose to follow the violent passages as such, then yes Islam is more violent. You can't place a 20th century spin on the book and ignore the many who follow a 12th century pattern of behavior.

If it isn't about violence, then where are the fatwas, against the violence? Personally, I draw the line at blaming women for being raped.

As for 9/11, it only brought Islam to the civilized public attention. No one has had to deal with people having their hand cut off for stealing, in civilized cultures for many many years. In the US, they don't hang a man for being a horse thief anymore. The population has gotten past that notion. In Islamic countries on the whole they have not. I would say the same of Christianity, if they were still having their neighbors over for barbecues. (of their neighbors)

Islams even fight other Islams over Islam. Go figure. The view of the Islam religion isn't about Islam itself. Most people don't give a ding dong about the holy books in the world have to say. What they do care about is what the adherents use as an excuse to perpetrate atrocities on other humans with.

You want the public image to be cleared up for Islam? Then start cleaning up the rank and file members using Islam as their excuse to be uncivilized. You have a real PR problem on your hands with the civilized world. No one buys into the lip service. Instead of 99 virgins, let the suicide bombers know they are going to hell instead. Same for the rapists, not the women. You talk of tolerance, and it would seem to civilized people the tolerance you have is for your own peoples mis-behavior. Denounce the old Islam and come up with the Islam rev 2, for the civilized peoples.

Just do something real for a change. I'm not desperately trying to grasp anything about Islam. I'm trying to grasp as to when the majority of Islam in the world will grasp civilized behavior. Most of them in the US seem to have "gotten" it. What's with the rest in the third world who don't?

- tomcat2200 September 14, 2008 2:47AM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
1.5 BILLION Muslims

Not 1.5 Muslims, presumably.

To measure whether a religion incites violence, we can make the following assumptions.
Let's say that X percent of the population is violently crazy. That means X percent of Jews, Muslims, Christians, etc. are crazy enough to commit acts of terrorism . Of course, all of these groups have had their terrorists. What should be looked at is whether incidences of these violent people are backed by their religions, inspired by them in some way.

If we're assuming that Bin Laden is the psychological equivalent of the guy who murdered people because his neighbors dog told him to (which is a valid assumption), then we can't assume that Islam is more violent than anything else any more than we can assume that neighbors dog is a particularly violent dog. This extends if we're looking at an individual-by-individual case basis. What the issue is is whether there's a bunch of good examples of institutionalized violence in either the Qu'ran or the dominant Islamic philosophies that are in place today.

Islam in America is much like anything else in America. It's moderate, thoughtful, and places itself in line with human rights . If anything, I'd call Islam in America MORE thoughtful than other American religious groups, like fundamentalist Christian groups. There hasn't been a massive American Muslim outcry against teaching evolution in schools , or sex ed , or wanting to put a codified piece of Shari'a law into a court where a Muslim is a judge.

Islam outside of America, however, is a different story. Everyone can name, off the top of their heads, dozens of horrifying, horrifying events that were committed by people in the name of Islam in recent years. The question is, does the RELIGION of Islam have a responsibility to answer to the atrocities committed in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran, etc. Is there an official Islamic response on the Mutaween? That sort of thing.

I'm certain there's no official Christian response on the Holocaust, which many Jews see as a typically Christian crime . I'm certain there's no official Christian response on the terrorism against abortion clinics. And to be completely fair, there's no official Jewish response to the rare cases of Judaic religiously-inspired violence (There aren't that many Jews, so the X percentage involves a pretty tiny amount of people). But the debate must be on the following things.
A) Is one neccesary? Do the moderates have the responsibility to pull the extremists in by condemning their actions?
a1) Does such a condemnation carry with it an implicit agreement that their particular religion is faulty?
B) Is there tangible evidence that the percentage of per-capita religiously-inspired violent acts is higher in the Muslim community than in the non-Muslim community? It can be either a historical or modern basis.
b1) If yes, can the Muslim quality be isolated? Adjust that percentage for economic factors, etc. Is it still unusually high?

If the answer to B is yes, then of course other religions have to come into play, and Christianity does not hold up well to Buddhism, Judaism, etc. Christianity can enter this game, but must feel ready to apply the same standards onto itself, and I feel pretty confident (so should most people) that Christianity won't come out as the most peaceful of the peaceful.

- quantummechanik April 1, 2009 1:28PM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Uncommitted

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- Holocost
  
  "I'm certain there's no official Christian response on the Holocaust, which many Jews see as a typically Christian crime ."
  
  I don't know what you mean by official response but the vast majority of Christian leaders have most certainly condemned the Holocaust publicly. Most recently a priest who denied the Holocaust was excommunicated from the Catholic Church. If Jews refer to the Holocaust as a "Typical Christian Crime" they are mistaken. BTW, Living in NY I know many Jews and none of them feel that way.
  
  I agree with your assessment on the Islamic violence not being religious based. It's cultural. The Arabs are historically a nomadic people living in a harsh environment . They had to fight to survive. That tradition has carried through to today. It's accepted as a fact of life.
  
  "Christianity does not hold up well to Buddhism, Judaism, etc. Christianity can enter this game, but must feel ready to apply the same standards onto itself, and I feel pretty confident (so should most people) that Christianity won't come out as the most peaceful of the peaceful."
  
  You sound a little anti Christian here. Once again historical violence in Christianity is cultural, not based on religious teachings. Jesus' teachings were counter to the violence of the Old Testament (the Jewish Tanakh) and he referred it as a new way. Judaism has a record of historical violence every bit as bad as Christianity. If you read the teachings if Jesus you will learn the fundamental values are based on non violence.
  
  All in all none of the major Religions are inherently violent or promote violence. There are however certain people and factions within those religions who twist the teachings of that religion to promote their own violent agenda.
  
  - tbcass April 3, 2009 8:25AM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
  - Spelling of Holocaust
    
    OK I spelled Holocaust wrong. Don't point that out please. It adds nothing to the discussion.
    
    - tbcass April 3, 2009 8:27AM
    
    Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
    
    Thank You for your Comment
    
    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
  - The "Typical Christian crime"
    
    What I meant by the typically Christian crime is, when studying the history of antisemitism in Europe and America, the ramp-up to the holocaust invariably a) involves Christians, or b) involves Christian ideology, usually in the form of either quoting New Testament verses in an attempt to point out the evil of the Jews, or referencing the death of Christ as an excuse for Jews. The holocaust itself, while being perpetrated, was certainly defended by Christian ideology in Germany, throughout Europe, and indeed by the Catholic church , who, under Pope Pius XII, did nothing to stop the deaths despite learning of it quite early in the process.
    
    Regarding the holocaust denying priest, you're actually talking about Richard Williamson, whom pope Benedictine XVI readmitted quite recently. Williamson wasn't excommunicated because he is a holocaust denier--He is, and the uproar in the church community is enormous due to it--but because he was politically opposed to, as a member of the society of Saint Pius X, a group opposing church reforms way back when. So, if we're taking that as a sign of what the Catholic church thinks, we can simply say that "Opposing church reform gets you excommunicated, but believing the gas chambers never existed is fine by us."
    
    And this Catholic Pope doesn't have the GREATEST track record for being a friend the Jews.
    
    See: The Catholic Church and the Holocaust, 1930-1965 by Michael Payer,
    and: Removing Anti-Jewish Polemic from our Christian Lectionaries by Norman A. Beck.
    
    - quantummechanik April 3, 2009 12:36PM
    
    Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Uncommitted
    
    Thank You for your Comment
    
    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
    - OK
      
      You apparently agree with the rest. That is flawed people within the religions, not the religions them selves that are the problem.
      
      - tbcass April 4, 2009 6:05AM
      
      Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: No
      
      Thank You for your Comment
      
      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
Islam is THE cult of death

Islam promotes subjugating, or failing that, killing all that aren't Muslims. "Islam is a Religion of Peace" ....is the most completely BS statement that exists. Muslims are engaged in either actively killing all other religion 's followers or sitting back and supporting the killings through their silence. Muslims are the most deadly threat against the free world that exists today. They have nothing but contemp ane hatred for anyone besides Muslims.

- Mike S May 10, 2009 8:47PM

Reply to this Recommend (0) Side: Yes

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

Regarding Objection

Muslim Youth Taught Intolerance and Violence in Religious Schools

- From American Values

Open Objection Go to this Objection

Be the first to comment.

Email a Friend

Experts and users discuss islam, muslim, war on terror: Does Islam Promote Violence?

Does Islam Promote Violence?

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Violence Pervades Muslim World

- From American Values

By American Values - Protecting American Values

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Thank You for your Comment

Violence is not Dependent on Religion

- From MPAC

By Muslim Public Affairs Council - Making Muslims Part of the Solution