Do We Still Need Affirmative Action?

Do We Still Need Affirmative Action?

“I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” Martin Luther King spoke these words in 1963, and they still resonate today. Affirmative action programs were established to create this very type of equality, but have they brought us closer to Dr. King’s dream or hindered it?

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Do We Still Need Affirmative Action?

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  • Gary Orfield
    Affirmative Action is a Critical Tool


    At the Civil Rights Project we commissioned research and published
    five books related to this topic. We are convinced that the Supreme
    Court was correct in finding that racial diversity was a compelling interest of colleges and universities, that it added depth and understanding to the education of all students, that it creates critical opportunities for students of color who have been denied
    equal preparation by inferior segregated schools, and that it prepares
    students to live and work successfully in multiracial communities as
    well as strengthens leadership in our major institutions and in
    our public life.

    For an in-depth look at the current status of racial equity in higher
    education in a state system, see our new report, BUILDING ON SUCCESS,
    reporting what the state of Kentucky has accomplished and the reasons
    why affirmative action remains essential in creating equal opportunity for higher education. This and other research can be found at
    civilrightsproject.ucla.edu.

    - Gary OrfieldUS October 27, 2008 3:01PM

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    • selfish
      Affirmative action is forced racism

      . Affirmative action is racism. This is a form or racial quotas---found in all sorts of evil societies - Communist Russia, Nazi Germany...these 'civil rights' so obviously racist its almost silly to argue. To give rights to private property to some, but no to others, based on ancestry, or genetics, or color - is pure racism and pure evil. Any man or institution that gives this un-earned advantage to a group does not deserve rights him or herself.

      - selfish November 18, 2008 7:06PM

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    • Joe6Pack
      More Equal Citizens2

      In another discussion...
      Society: "Can the Obama presidency end racism in America?"
      The discussion drifted off topic and am (dual) posting a reply here.
      ***

      RE: "if no one captured stats on people's race or heritage, we might never know if..."
      "...some people who want to keep tabs on stuff like that."
      "That would be an important thing to know..."

      Why?
      How about if these "stats" were completely done away with, then...
      "with the same grades and standardized tests scores"
      ...would really mean something and the truly qualified would be selected
      All it does is perpetuate the divide and make some citizens more equal than others.


      For higher education-after meeting/exceeding entry scores,the only Q's should be:
      Are you an American citizen?
      Are you a resident of said state/county?
      ...which are used for tuition costs
      Then can apply to 3rd party organizations for tuition assistance based on ethnicity and other criteria.
      The schools are in business to educate their students for the betterment of society.

      I've heard that the Obama campaign has "lots" of money leftover and it's being given as
      bonus's to the staffers. Why not being given to/starting up 3rd party org for educational
      opportunities of said individuals?


      RE: "With no way to measure racism..."
      Believe your confusing race/color of skin with ethnicity/heritage.
      Just because I'm of Polish/Italian heritage... does not indicate the color of my skin
      Racism/sexisim/etc is illegal and all stats pertaining to should also be.
      ===


      This is all "needed" for equal opportunities argument...
      I went to:
      ...a public grade school
      ...a public high school
      ...a public 2yr tech college on the GI bill
      I'm now classified by the incoming administration as "rich" (based on some arbitrary
      income amount)...

      Now tell me how many others in this nation do not have the same opportunities that I had/used?

      I spent my time and energy, as an individual, on working and getting an education...
      ...not mislead/deceived by the rhetoric that this race/heritage requires this and
      deserves that. Each individual makes their own "bed".

      Like the current automaker bailout debate...
      ...Temporary help is earned, not permanently blindly given
      ***

      To this topic... as stated in multiple previous posts-
      for higher education, it's the preparation, roles models and K-12 system at fault.
      The symptoms are still trying to be fixed, after how many years?, and not the actual "illness".

      - Joe6PackUS November 24, 2008 8:33PM

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      • GreenLove
        Discussion Moved

        Look I was arguing that I think it makes sense to keep track of people's race and heritage so we know if any discrimination is happening or not.

        That's the type of data that would really help me understand how/if Affirmative Action is working or not.

        In general, I believe that in the US, everyone should have an equal opportunity. When that's happening, we don't need programs. When that's not happening we need to be aware. Personally, I think that the type of racism that used to exist, where qualified candidates were getting turned away based on their race has really declined. The inequality we see now is that people who are poorer tend not to have the same opportunities. The way to combat that in my opinion is to improve public schools and make sure that standardized tests and teachers are as unbiased as possible.

        - GreenLoveUS November 25, 2008 11:19AM

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    • ckidwell7098
      A critical tool, like a hammer when fixing a car.

      So, you say that affirmative action is a "critical tool". That "it added depth and understanding to the education of all students, that it creates critical opportunities for students of color who have been denied equal preparation by inferior segregated schools". Are you still claiming that schools are segregated? That Whites are given more than Blacks? Where are these segregated schools, I can never seem to find them.

      Oh well, I am happy to see that collages and universities are considering my overall well being by hoping to submerge me in "depth" and "understanding of education". I was unaware that all it took was an African American, an Asian American, a Hispanic, or Native American to bring this about (and here I thought that it actually took a mind, somebody who truly gained their value and worth). That must be it. Why would a collage do use affirmative action if not for this? Grants? Funding? Donations? No, heavens no.

      Tell me, do you believe that a government official (we'll say the President) should make the same as a custodian? Clearly one has done MUCH MORE work than that of the other, has strived and toiled to achive what they currently have. Should the rewards (payment) be the same? What is it that you believe in?

      - ckidwell7098US March 9, 2009 4:23PM

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  • MudEngineeer
    MudEngineeer

    Affirmative Action has caused an entire generation of Blacks to go to school and not even try to excel because they knew that they would be able to get a job no matter what because of this law . Affirmative Action has done more to hold back Black people than almost anything else that I can imagine other than using and selling drugs. Get rid of this law and help people to be the best that they can be and you will get much better results!

    - MudEngineeerUS May 20, 2009 7:53PM

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  • rkm
    Not really

    I think the days of affirmative action should end. I feel that as long as affirmative action exists as it does today, then there will always be problems because it serves only to be a constant reminder of the past. We must move past the past and let bygones be bygones, if people would only see others as humans instead of colors, things would be much better, but affirmative action is only pointing out the differences of peoples color. Affirmative action had its time and place, but it is now obsolete.

    - rkmUS October 9, 2009 12:00PM

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  • almond
    Affirmative Action Approbation

    Affirmative Action is a solution to the growing disparity of economic inequality between blacks and whites. Simply put, it is essentially a lawsuit , atonement of the transgressions of white slave owners, which have greatly contributed to this economic disparity. I have never benefited from affirmative action myself nor do, I know of anyone who has as well. Nevertheless, I do not think affirmative action is sufficient in terms of retribution, but it is a necessity and it is a start.
    Civil rights programs, during the reconstruction era, helped African Americans become full citizens of the United States. The Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution abolished slavery. Emancipated slaves searched for families and jobs , most former slaves, without land or resources, became laborers.
    Freed slaves were making progress-building schools , teachers’ trained and black politicians elected to office. However, these gains vanquished after southern whites took back political power. The Black Codes of 1865 was a unique attempt for white southerners to maintain the way of life prior to the civil war. Meaning that while slaves were free, they were restricted and opportunities limited.
    The Fourteenth Amendment guaranteed equal protection under the law , which also meant to protect the rights of newly freed slaves in the South, limit the participation of ex-Confederate leaders in government , and guarantee the payment of debt. President Abraham Lincoln promised the freed slaves 40 acres and a mule. Nevertheless, President Andrew Johnson revoked that promise.
    The Fifteenth Amendment forbids racial discrimination in access to voting . The 1866 Civil Rights Act guarantees every citizen “the same right to make and enforce contracts…as is enjoyed by white citizens…” The Ku Klux Klan was a white underground terrorist group, which created a wave of terror. Threaten violence, bullying , lynching, setting fire to buildings and murdering blacks. The KKK would not accept black people as equals. Their beliefs were that whites were superior to blacks and as a result, many blacks did not register to vote and kept away from white areas.
    Blacks were entitled to receive the same public services as mandated by the “separate but equal” doctrine. In June of 1892, blacks were required to sit in a black-only railroad car. Homer Plessy arrested and thrown in a New Orleans jail, a black man, for sitting in a whites-only car. In one of the most shameful decisions ever issued by the United States Supreme Court, PLESSY V. FERGUSON. Segregation was insult enough, but the suggestion that such an oppressive policy was, in part, meant for an oppressed race benefit was galling in its dishonesty. Therefore, Homer Plessy lost his petition in the courts; Plessy would not receive equal treatment with whites in America.
    President John Kennedy first used the term, “affirmative action”, in 1961. He required that all federal contractors "take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed… without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin." President Lyndon Johnson reinforced this obligation by Executive Order in 1965 by requiring “goals and timetables.” However, political pressure forced Johnson to retract this demand. Nevertheless, in 1969, President Richard Nixon revived the idea in the "Philadelphia Order" aimed at increasing minority membership in the city's construction trades, and in 1970, he extended the requirement to all private companies with a federal government contract.
    Meanwhile, the courts were turning to the use of quotas in order to break racial barriers when other methods proved ineffective. For example, in 1970 Alabama State Troopers did not employ a single black trooper. A federal court ordered the state agency to develop a plan for the recruitment and hiring of African Americans. After Eighteen-months (18), still there were no black troopers. Therefore, the court ordered the hiring of one African American for every white trooper hired until blacks constituted 25% of the force.
    Families pass their wealth down to their children . In turn, their hope is that their children will be successful and can pass wealth down to the next generation, and so on. Some white people understand the complexities of black people struggles in that racism manifests itself on many levels. Black people know that the system is compromising them in ways that they could never imagine. In an effort to right a wrong of the past treatment of blacks, various policies were enacted or created. The thirteenth, fourteenth, fifteenth amendments and other civil rights policies were to make blacks “whole” again.

    - almondUS October 11, 2009 4:33PM

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Regarding Argument
Only Kind of “Affirmative Action” at Issue is Racial Discrimination
- From Center for Equal Opportunity
Affirmative Action is Divisive Side
By Center for Equal Opportunity - E pluribus unum

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  • Rearden
    Affirmative Action - Point Isn't If It Works

    Would you support a racist policy if it "worked"?

    This is nothing more than favoring someone based on race, a strange way for making up inequality based on the same premise. Two wrongs don't make a right, and never will.

    - ReardenUS February 7, 2009 12:27AM

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    • almond
      Arrested Development

      Minority preference is the meagerness recompense for centuries of unrelieved oppression. In America, many marginally competent or flatly incompetent whites gain employment every day, some because their white skin suits the conscious or unconscious racial preference of their employers. Worse, white incompetence is always an individual matter, but for blacks it is often confirmation of ugly stereotypes. Given that unfairness cuts both ways, does it not only balance the scales of history, does this repay, in a small way, the systematic denial under which African-American ancestors lived out their days?
      In theory, affirmative action certainly has all the moral symmetry that fairness requires. It is reformist and corrective, even repentant and redemptive.

      The idea that affirmative action violates the rights of white citizens confuses a right with an expectation. We all have a right to be “seriously and fairly considered” for a job or a position. In the past, blacks were not even considered for a job had their rights violated; in the present, whites are seriously and fairly considered, yet still not selected. However, their rights are not violated, but rather had their expectations frustrated. If affirmative action disappears from the American scene, many blacks will continue to excel and succeed. However, that will be “the signal” that would prove to be lethal for our country. That is, white supremacy now has one less constraint and black people have one more reason to lose trust in the promise of American democracy .

      - almondUS October 12, 2009 1:07PM

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Regarding Argument
The Only Issue is Whether the Benefits Outweigh the Costs
- From Center for Equal Opportunity
Affirmative Action is Divisive Side
By Center for Equal Opportunity - E pluribus unum

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Regarding Argument
The Two Claimed Benefits of Affirmative Discrimination Not Persuasive
- From Center for Equal Opportunity
Affirmative Action is Divisive Side
By Center for Equal Opportunity - E pluribus unum

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Regarding Argument
There Are Many Undeniable Costs to the Use of Racial Preferences
- From Center for Equal Opportunity
Affirmative Action is Divisive Side
By Center for Equal Opportunity - E pluribus unum

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Regarding Argument
Envision the Society We Want/Ask if Preferences Will Help Us Get There
- From Center for Equal Opportunity
Affirmative Action is Divisive Side
By Center for Equal Opportunity - E pluribus unum

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Regarding Argument
Affirmative Action is Necessary
- From AAAA
We Need Affirmative Action Side
By American Association for Affirmative Action - A New Era of Leadership & Action

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  • feeper
    Affirmative Action

    It divides us. If we are going to be equal lets be equal. Ask yourself this question. Is it right to force some company to hire people because they have to. No it isn't right. I love black people but someday, somewhere at someplace they have to stand on their own.

    - feeperUS November 4, 2008 2:59AM

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  • Aaron
    Affirmative Action shud be an available remedy...

    Affirmative action shud be an available remedy for any person who feels
    he/she deserves to avail themselves of measures that correct an injus- tice or denial of their rights...Like veterans and the disabled, lawful
    positive benefits exist to fill such needs...If one qualifies for AA,
    they shud demand it as it exists to legally amd morally ameliorate their
    condition...Others who do not require AA's provisions are not obliged to
    seek them...Aaron Allen..

    - AaronUS August 6, 2009 10:30PM

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  • visavismeyou
    was*

    AA was necessary; it has served its purpose and it did it well. It was good policy for awhile, now we need to fix the few problems that exist with different policy; AA is no longer the answer and has actually caused some problems.

    - visavismeyouUS October 12, 2009 10:14PM

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Regarding Argument
Diversity is a Compelling State Interest
- From AAAA
We Need Affirmative Action Side
By American Association for Affirmative Action - A New Era of Leadership & Action

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  • moby clarke
    I agree

    However, due to liberals who control the educational system in America, we now teach to the lowest common denominator. This, unfortunately, means our brightest get no education , become board and hate school, those who are not as advanced struggle because they have no support network at home and end up dropping out. Hence, no one gets educated. Or, we teach crap like safe sex instead of reading, writing, and math. Then, when people like me want to hire a qualified applicant, I can not find one.

    - moby clarkeUS April 2, 2009 11:46PM

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Regarding Argument
Discrimination Continues to Exist
- From AAAA
We Need Affirmative Action Side
By American Association for Affirmative Action - A New Era of Leadership & Action

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  • cbooh
    still exists

    Does discrimination still exist ... Yes... my son had always wanted to work for the Railroad... An add in a local newspaper stated that railroad workers was needed it also stated that women and minorities were welcome.. Well my son who was 20 at the time drove to another town 100 miles away to apply. We he got there the immediately called all the black men and all women in for interviews and 2 white men who had union cards that they had to take in.. The requirements for this job was to be able to lift 100 lbs. in order to hook trains together.. most of the women they kept did not even weigh that much.. the black men were all in business suits looking for management jobs ..My son a strong 20 yr old who had worked on a farm his whole life and could do the job was sent home along with all the rest of the white men.. Does discrimination exist.. Yes for all people and especially this day in time for white people..

    - cboohUS October 29, 2009 3:41PM

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Regarding Argument
To End Racism We Must Take Account of Race
- From AAAA
We Need Affirmative Action Side
By American Association for Affirmative Action - A New Era of Leadership & Action

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Regarding Argument
Eliminating Race Does Not Benefit Whites
- From AAAA
We Need Affirmative Action Side
By American Association for Affirmative Action - A New Era of Leadership & Action

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Regarding Argument
Opponents Mis-Characterize Affirmative Action
- From AAAA
We Need Affirmative Action Side
By American Association for Affirmative Action - A New Era of Leadership & Action

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Regarding Argument
Dr. Martin Luther King Would Have Supported Affirmative Action
- From AAAA
We Need Affirmative Action Side
By American Association for Affirmative Action - A New Era of Leadership & Action

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Regarding Argument
The Changing Demographics Call for Affirmative Action
- From AAAA
We Need Affirmative Action Side
By American Association for Affirmative Action - A New Era of Leadership & Action

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Regarding Argument
The Equal Opportunity Act Was Not About “Quotas”
- From Brandon Brice
We Have To Think for Ourselves Side
By Brandon Brice - Spokesman: Hip Hop Republican

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Regarding Argument
The Bigger Picture of What’s Wrong With Black America
- From Brandon Brice
We Have To Think for Ourselves Side
By Brandon Brice - Spokesman: Hip Hop Republican

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Regarding Argument
Lack of Preparation
- From Brandon Brice
We Have To Think for Ourselves Side
By Brandon Brice - Spokesman: Hip Hop Republican

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Regarding Argument
As Long as Racism and Sexism Exist, Affirmative Action is Still Needed
- From BAMN
Definitely Side
By By Any Means Necessary - By Any Means Necessary

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  • Jefe
    help me understand

    I am honestly asking this. I work within my state's prison system. I work within the healthcare system in the prison. Please help me understand this: why can blacks call other blacks "nigger" but I would get stabbed for doing so (I am white)? Also, out in the freeworld, why do the races segregate themselves, say by neighborhood, when there is no government intervention? We all have free choice in what house to purchase, but we still tend to live around our own 'kind.' The town I live in has a very small 'government housing' area--most folks here are employed and live in average/typical family homes (the disparity in income is minor as a whole). Income does not appear to be a deciding factor. This town also appears to have nearly equal amounts of hispanics, blacks, and whites (little to no asians). Thanks.

    - JefeUS October 29, 2008 9:36PM

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Regarding Argument
GPA and Standardized Test Scores are NOT Neutral Measures of Merit
- From BAMN
Definitely Side
By By Any Means Necessary - By Any Means Necessary

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Regarding Argument
Racism is the Cause of the "Badge of Inferiority"
- From BAMN
Definitely Side
By By Any Means Necessary - By Any Means Necessary

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Regarding Argument
Banning Affirmative Action Resegregates Higher Education
- From BAMN
Definitely Side
By By Any Means Necessary - By Any Means Necessary

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Regarding Argument
How to Keep Our Nation on the Path to Equality
- From BAMN
Definitely Side
By By Any Means Necessary - By Any Means Necessary

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Regarding Argument
Equal Opportunity for All
- From Jennifer Gratz
Moving Beyond Race and Gender Side
By Jennifer Gratz - American Civil Rights Institute

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  • Brady
    Affirmative action TAKES AWAY equal opportunity.

    Honestly, my take on affirmative action is that it often takes away jobs from the better suited person. In a nation where the white, middle-aged, protestant man has now become the person most often discriminated against, affirmative action is a step in the wrong direction. The person best suited for a job should always be the person to whom it is granted, regardless of race, gender, sexual preference, etc. A company should not be required to employ a certain amount of a certain type of person. I also, though, believe in the right of a SMALL BUSINESS OWNER to hire or not hire a person based on whatever they so choose to. It may not do their business good, but they own the business, they should have the right. Not the same goes, though, for large corporations. If a person honestly feels they are being denied a job at some corporation because of race, gender, etc. they should have the right to speak up about it. but it should no longer be a way for people of a certain ethnicity or whatever to be granted a job, no questions asked.

    - BradyUS November 10, 2008 11:37PM

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    • F2XL
      Yep, and that would be the case with athletics as well

      I sure would've liked affirmative action to be on my side if I decided to join a basketball team and not show up for practices. No doubt in my mind that I would feel a sense of pride knowing that people who actually had the skill lost their opportunity to me.

      - F2XLUS November 15, 2008 9:59PM

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  • Songbird21
    We need equality, not favoritism.

    I agree entirely. While the minority "hiring quota" may have served its purpose fifty years ago there is no need for it now. And I have lost track of how many of my friends have lost a job to a minority, not because they were better qualified, but because the company had not filled their quota. College minority student quotas do the same thing.

    There are so many double standards as far as race goes. Such as the race specific scholarships to colleges. Instead of those we need more scholarships for underprivlaged children in general. If a white group made a whites only scholarship there would be cries of racism . This has already happened when one man made a very low benefit (Less than $50 I believe) white scholarship and the resulting uproar was nothing short of astronomical.

    And the same goes for things like "Miss black America" and the Black Entertainment network.

    I want my daughter to grow up in a world where she has an equal chance no matter what she does. Isn't that what black people fought so hard for in the first place?

    - Songbird21US September 15, 2009 10:16PM

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Regarding Argument
The Constitutionality of Affirmative Action
- From Jennifer Gratz
Moving Beyond Race and Gender Side
By Jennifer Gratz - American Civil Rights Institute

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Regarding Argument
Our National Tragedy
- From Jennifer Gratz
Moving Beyond Race and Gender Side
By Jennifer Gratz - American Civil Rights Institute

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Related Debates
"Affirmative Action is Divisive" Center for Equal Opportunity
"We Need Affirmative Action" AAAA
"We Have To Think for Ourselves" Brandon Brice
"Definitely" BAMN
"Moving Beyond Race and Gender" Jennifer Gratz
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    BAMN is a mass, democratic, integrated, national organization dedicated to building a new mass civil rights movement to defend affirmative action, integration... More

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