Experts and users discuss autism, vaccination: Are Autism and Vaccines Linked?
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Are Autism and Vaccines Linked?
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The Timing Is Wrong
Never before in our history have we vaccinated newborns. This has been only in practice for less than 20 years.
Also in the past 20 years we have seen the number of vaccines on the mandatory schedule schedule go up dramaticaly.
During this time the numbers of parents reporting severe vaccine reactions in their babies have gone up dramaticaly too.
But we are supposed to believe that this is just a mass coincidence?
If a parent reports adverse reactions to any other drug, they are taken seriously. But when they report vaccine reactions, their doctors tell them it was a coincidence? The system is crazy and out of control.
And what do parents get? Epidemiological studies to "reasure" them that vaccines are "safe". Great.
Why is no one looking at the actual vaccine injured children to find out why they were injured, so future children can possibly be spared?
- Sylvia July 24, 2008 9:13AM
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Faye
Every time a child becomes grossly ill or injured by a vaccine the Anti-Safe Vaccine Zealots say, "It is just a coincidence." If that is the case we are in a coincidence epidemic! Why are vaccines the only drugs considered safe for everyone all the time? They contain serious components people can be allergic to. Safe? I think not.
- Faye
August 29, 2008 3:45PM
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100% safe?
Faye - I've never seen anyone claim that vaccines are 100% safe 100% of the time. Maybe you could provide a link to a 'vaccine zealot' saying this?
- Kev Leitch
August 30, 2008 12:13PM
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Are people who claim vaccines don't work "zealots"?
On the other side of the coin--I've seen people claim that vaccines don't work at all. That is a clearly incorrect statement.
- Sullivan September 5, 2008 5:39PM
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Chromosome trigger
As this is a debate close to my heart. I unknowingly married an Asperger and we know our oldest son also has it. Now with that being said; I am some what of a daily observance Expert of high functioning autism. From what I've been able to trace points indicate his mother's side of the family. I've done sleepless research in the subject of Autism for 3 years. From information I've gathered on both sides. I believe it on a cellar level of genetics that is rejecting the the chemicals from vaccine mixtures. during developmental stages when vaccines are received the DNA has an "allergic" reaction. which shuts down further developmental stages in certain DNA structure from certain families that haven't developed the immunity needed for those vaccines I also believe that those family's affected already have an auto immune to the disease being vaccinated from in the first place which is why the have a reaction to vaccines. Possibly related to the black death survivors DNA set up. Think on it.
- Just Beth July 24, 2008 11:22AM
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It made my son far worse.
I am not sure whether vaccines cause autism. I do know vaccines make autism far worse and can cause symptoms to show that may otherwise have lain dormant. When my son received each separate set of vaccinations he became more encapsulated and showed more autistic symptoms each time. I am not one to say stop all vaccinations but do space them out and GREEN our vaccines.
- Sonja West
July 24, 2008 1:20PM
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More symptoms after every shot.
Each time that my son had a immunisation shot the Autism signs reared there head. He was four when he was diagonsed. As a baby he would make eye contact eat anything that was placed in front of him and be a happy baby. After his twelve month shot he became a fussy eater, didnt talk or walk, would wiggle away from our touch and many more things. My husband and i totally agree that immunisation plays a huge role. He has know genetic results to suggest anything along those lines. One shot doesnt fit all.
- Melissa Chilton September 4, 2008 9:31PM
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Personal evidence
3 kids:
1, Vaccinated - has ADHD
2, Vaccinated - Autism diagnosed at 20 months
3, Not Vaccinated - No problems
As far as I am concerned, that is all the evidence I need.
Our revenge? The autistic child is now considered recovered thanks to early intervention, therapy, and a great DAN doctor
- Arel July 24, 2008 1:21PM
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Statistics of 1
You may be interested in comments quoted on the Scientific American blog recently:
From the post "Measles Is Back, And It's Because Your Kids Aren't Vaccinated"
http://www.sciam.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=measles-is-back-and-its-because-you-2008-08-22
"Many, if not most, of the younger siblings [of autistic children] never have any vaccinations," says Filipek, who believes that autism is not caused by vaccines. "And they are as autistic as they day is long."
Filipek, in this case, is Dr. Pauline Filipek. She's an excellent autism researcher and clinician, and one of the few researchers who has already looked at mitochondria and autism.
- Sullivan August 22, 2008 10:05PM
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The evidence is relavent
I have 4 sons. All have the same father and same blood type. Our 12 and 9 year have "regressive autism" our 5 and 3 year old (no shots ever, not even vitamin K) are healthy and doing great. I can COUNT the times on one hand the two little guys have gotten sick or thrown up. My two older sons I have a calendar of the first 3 years and All the times the have been sick or hspitalized. We've had their titters tested when we finally became aware to do this. both older boys have contracted EVERY live virus they were injected with. The hep B is actually a strain of G and H, the SAME VIRUS THEY WERE INJECTED WITH to build antibodies. We have the evidence, we just don't have the MONEY or TIME to FIGHT this . WE CHOOSE LIFE for Our SONs and have been putting all our time and effert in a direction to heal them. Remorgaging our home TWICE, a second and third morgage. The evidence is what it is. You can lead the horse to water but you can't make it drink, just get a new horse and keep on going and keep on praying. Blessing to all, goodnight.
- Paula in Wisconsin August 29, 2008 6:58PM
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The data suggests otherwise
Is it MMR? Thimerosal? Aluminum? Vaccine overload? Which one is it this week? (Don't forget, it's all part of a massive global conspiracy involving all scientists, doctors, and public health specialist!)
The reasons constantly change, but the belief/resistance to the data that demonstrate vaccines are not a causal factor remains. If one is looking for a reason, they will likely find it, regardless of the truth.
The clinical diagnosis of autism has been more clearly articulated. The public health, medical, and educational infrastructure has better identification and support programs. Autism is ID'd better now because of these systems.
Additionally, the antivaccine camp REFUSES to identify the role of de novo mutations (copy number variants) found in autistic children. Generation X is getting married and having children later in life. Just as with many risk factors associated with later parental age, the incidences of autism trend with increased parental age.
- Ds Advocate July 24, 2008 1:32PM
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Here this every day
Our clinic treats nothing but ASD patients. Probably 7 out of 10 parents who come to us say my child was fine until this vaccine then in 1-2 months was gone. The anecdotal reporting of 1000's of parents has to count for something.
Also, since we have success in treating the condition, and even have the dx removed for some of our patients, it seems to demonstrate that there is more than "different hard wiring" going on.
- rlneub July 24, 2008 1:56PM
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Minor corrections
Rick,
your clinic treats no "one" except ASD patients. Our kids are not "things". Our kids are not "gone", they have autism.
- Sullivan August 22, 2008 10:08PM
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Well-Child Check-Ups
are nothing more than appointments for vaccinations. Pediatricians main source of income comes from vaccines. Most pediatricians have blinders on where vaccines and autism are concerned. The blinders of course are dollar signs. It is obvious by the AAP's plan on how to deal with reluctant parents that vaccines are the "scared cow" of pediatricians.
The fact that infants, by accepted practice; are given a HEP-B vaccine when there is no way an infant would have the remotest chance (save the mother testing positive for it) of contracting the disease should be telling even the most ardent supporter of vaccines that something is amiss.
- dadelp July 24, 2008 2:37PM
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Well-child checkups
Vaccinations are their largest source of income? Are you kidding us? Can you cite ANY credible information that says this is the case?
How much money do you think doctors/HMOs could make be hospitalizing and treating children for the infectious diseases they prevent? Way more. So why not discourage the use of (cheap) immunizations, let kids get the diseases, let them suffer disabilities, and let others die to make even MORE money? Your claim is completely contrary to reality. Immunizations save money for the public and keep kids out of the doctors office.
More accusation. More conspiracy theories. No basis in reality or reason.
And, BTW, some of those kids who 'will never be exposed to the HepB virus" apparently didn't get the memo.
http://www.hbvadvocate.org/hcsp/articles/Hepatitis %20B%20in%20Children%20Update%202006.html
- Ds Advocate July 24, 2008 2:53PM
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It's Way Past Time to Move On
The evidence often cited for the supposed link between vaccines and autism is unreliable, unscientific and unconvincing. I understand parents' impulse to try and find some reason behind a child's disability, but blaming vaccines has the potential to make things harder for autistic people by taking away their right to be viewed as simply human, not "damaged" or "poisoned." As the parent of an autistic child, i believe this specious debate detracts from more promising areas of research concerning the treatment of autism, and ultimately harms the welfare of autistic people by making them seem something less than whole, something less than acceptable.
- qchan63 July 24, 2008 4:17PM
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uh
Most children that I have met who have Autism have gastrointestinal problems, that coupled with various food allergies means there bodies are working over time. There immune systems are weakened. Most Vaccinations are administed in bulk doses, 2 to sometimes 4 at a time. Most vacinations such as measels and chicken pox have a sub clinical form of the disease and there have been cases where a child's brain tissue has been damaged by these two vacinations ( research it, It's there) If you administer 4 vacinations into a child who already has a low immunity and who has gastrointestinal problems and these vacinations have subclinical forms of various diseases of course it's going to have an affect. If it wasn't true there wouldn't be labels on medication saying don't take this if you suffer from....? The problem is these infants who do have gastrointestinal problems are not getting treated and pediatricians are not taking gastrointestinals symptoms seriously.
- MsInformative August 26, 2008 9:30AM
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Evidence?
There 's actually no scientific evidence that autistic kids have gastrointestinal problems in any amount more significant than their non-autistic peers:
"we neither demonstrate abnormal small intestinal permeability, nor abnormal postprandial responses of the enteroendocrine peptide GLP-2......It has been suggested that increased permeability may be causally related to the onset of the inflammatory bowel disease and not just a consequence of inflammation. Our data does not support a similar hypothesis in autism......Our study did not detect differences in the functional gastrointestinal parameters measured in a group of children with autism.......The subtle endoscopic and histological findings of lymphonodular hyperplasia in the colon and ileum previously described in ‘‘autistic enterocolitis’’ (Wakefield et al. 1998, 2005) are also seen in normally developing children with similar gastrointestinal symptoms (Furlano et al. 2001)." (Source: http://tinyurl.com/5gv33k )
- Kev Leitch
August 26, 2008 12:20PM
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Evidence?
One of the few medical interventions that works for some children is the GFCF diet. This diet is based on leakage of peptides that result from gluten and casein. Gluten and casein peptides in the blood indicate permeability of the small intestine.
- EdR77203
September 14, 2008 5:40PM
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GFCF is not established
There is no evidence the GFCF diet makes any changes to autism ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18425890 ). Further, there is no evidence that children with autism have gastric issues in numbers over and above non-autistic children ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18311517 ).However, there is evidence that CF diets can lead children to have reduced bone thickness ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17879151 ).
- Kev Leitch
September 15, 2008 1:02AM
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Let me add this
I should say that the debate has been harmful to the autism community. It has taken the focus from what to do about the autism epidemic and placed it on the vaccine industry. The vaccine program is so entrenched that if the proof were incontrovertible, vaccines would still be shielded. All that effort on both sides has helped noone.
The second thing I should say is that there has been nonsense on both sides. The media is replete with examples from the anti-vaccine side. Let me site a few examples of innane actions on the pro-vaccine side.
The University of Syracuse took measurements of mercury in the blood after vaccination. Since it disappeared after 3 days they concluded that it is okay to have mercury in vaccines. This ignores the fact that mercury is a cumulative toxin, meaning that it is absorbed by the tissues. How is it okay for mercury to be absorbed by the tissues.
The pro-vaccine faction claims that the statistics are in and conclusive. It is interesting that the test for a link is to measure the autism rate of the vaccinated against the unvaccinated. Even though there are unvaccinated populations in the US, no such statistical test has been done.
The MMR vaccine was a target because of the virus measurements found in the spinal fluid and the intestinal flora of autistics. The focus on vaccines hid what should have been the salient point of the measurement. It is not possible to have measles viruses in either place without a compromise of the blood-brain and the blood-gut barrier.
- EdR77203
September 14, 2008 5:36PM
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Autism and Parental Age
First it was the refrigerator mom that was causing autism. Then it was all just bad genes. Now it's people having children later in life. The common thread here is It's All the Parents' Fault.
How convenient. Except there's one problem with the latest argument, about age. It is true that people are getting married and starting families later in life. It's not true that people are having children later in life. They are merely having their FIRST CHILD later in life. Before birth control, women used to have children well into their forties, until they hit menopause. The difference is, the children they were having later in life were there 7th or 8th child, not their 1st or 2nd child. So if you were going to try to argue this angle, you would have to say that autism was being caused by people having their FIRST or SECOND child later in life. And then what is the science behind that argument? There isn't any.
- clara July 24, 2008 4:21PM
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Autism and Parental Age
Just like other "scientific" theories, I guess I just blow this one out of the water as well.
First, the scientists said if a man wore briefs and not boxers, it would be difficult for a woman to get pregnant. My husband wore briefs.
Then they said if a woman drank more than 3 cups of coffee a day, she would have a hard time getting pregnant. Prior to my 3rd pregnancy, I was drinking about 10 cups a day and my husband was still wearing briefs.
My first child was born when I was 29 years old. He has Asperger Syndrome with ADHD. My 2nd child, born at age 32, is fine. 3rd child born at age 33
has ADHD with Oppositional Defiant Disorder. I was 34 when I delivered my last son. He is fine.
I believe it is the toxins in the vaccines as well as environment that causes Autism, ASD or other neurological disorders. Some kids can process the toxins and some can't. While 2 of mine processed just fine, the other 2 had difficulty. One more than the other.
- denise0513 July 24, 2008 7:07PM
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Mt dysfunction + hg= ASD
I suspect that the main cause of autism may yet turn out to be mercury as well as a few substances which have virtually identical effects on the brain (valproic acid for one), as proposed by Dr. Richard Deth. What's more, recent research seems to point to induced mitochondrial dysfunction as a major facilitator, which basically means that countless toxins could be co-factors.
Mitochondrial disease may be rare and genetic but mitochondrial dysfunction is not uncommon, seems to be ubiquitous in autism and is not genetic. Vulnerability to mitochondrial dysfunction may or may not be genetic. Some individuals have “fragile” mitochondrial systems apparently (more common in people with higher IQ’s), some may have environmentally damaged systems.
Many things seem to cause mitochondrial dysfunction, including mercury itself, psychiatric drugs, pesticides (rotenone for one), solvents, Tylenol, assaults to the immune system from hypervaccination with live viruses, etc.
- ATG July 24, 2008 9:10PM
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Take a closer look at the literature on autism and mitochondria
Have you noticed that most of the people identified with mitochondrial disorders and autism in the literature did not undergo regression? As in, if I recall correctly, only one of the people in the existing papers? Of the study that is in-preparation which includes Hannah Poling, it is reported to indicate that of 30 kids with possible mitochondrial dysfunction and autism with regression, Hannah Poling is the only one whose regression might be tied to vaccines?
- Sullivan August 22, 2008 10:14PM
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My God,Yes!!!!
My child was100% normal. Vaccines were doubled at 15 mos and he plunged into Autism, with severe GI and metabolic disorders.Hypotonia. Fecal Smearing, GI pain. Silence after learning everyone's name.
When tallied his vaccines contained 277X over the EPA's allowable limit of Hg for an adult.
Full strength Hg was in his Hep B, DTaP and HIB in 2000. His toxic metal testing shows he does not have the means or enough glutathione produced to excrete (detox) Hg.
No family history of Autism what so ever.
Huge family history of auto-immune disease.
He should have been screened and vaccinated on a more conservative schedule. He has over 18 symptoms that would indicate mitochondria disorder and his ped still pushes the flu shot!
After chelation therapy (metal removal) he is talking and gaining ground. My family doctor NEVER told me MERCURY was in my children's vaccines!!! I trusted him! My trust has been betrayed. We have spend over 100K to get my son back. We have lived this!
- KarenAtlanta July 24, 2008 9:55PM
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Wow! What a surprise!
No responses to my questions?
Same as usual.
What is it exactly? Mercury? The MMR? Aluminum? Too many vaccines? What?
How does mercury toxicity manifest itself as autism in light of the centuries-long analysis of research in the effects of mercury toxicity (which looks nothing like autism)?
Since it's all based on a massive, global conspiracy, how is it that all the scientists, medical professionals, public health specialists, and government regulatory officials are all in on this without any mention of what vaccines they give their kids or what the scientific consensus tell us?
Why is it that vaccines, that produce dirt-cheap margins as far as profitability as opposed to hospitalization, drugs, and therapy, are the basis for the "conspiracy" profitability agreement even though letting kids get these diseases would be far, far more profitable?
How come we don't hear anything about trial lawyers, milking the legal system, working the system to make money with trials?
Answers anybody?
- Ds Advocate July 24, 2008 11:14PM
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Not much of a surprise
Your post is not on the same level as other, that is why people are not responding. As soon as you wrote 'vaccines produce dirt cheap margins of profitability' you took yourself out of the conversation.
- msvj August 30, 2008 1:12PM
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Why the debate continues
Many people on the "no" side of this debate will say that the studies have been done, the case is closed, so why are we still talking about it? Well, there has been so much evidence, in particular recently (but the media has been too busy telling us about Britney Spears' underpants to pass it along). Here is one piece about why the issue won't go away, which sums up some of the advances since this january:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david -kirby/amanda-peet-vsmedical-sci_b_113817.html
Many people may be surprised at how many people in the government, and how many medical experts, take this very seriously. In fact, Julie Gerberding, head of the CDC, recently conceded that the landmark case that the CDC has always cited that proved no linkwas seriously flawed:
http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/06/david -kirby-cdc.html
Additionally, here is an excellent article that summarizes much of the bizarre politics behind the continuing denial by the CDC and AAP about a link (they are increasingl
- RecoveringRoo July 25, 2008 12:09AM
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"My name is Tanner. My name is Tanner."
That was my sons last full sentence after he got his shots over six years ago. The morning of July 4th he walked into the living room and said that to me. He was a happy healthy boy riding his bike, little tikes car, feeding himself, chewing food, dunking basket balls, and dreams were alive/communicated.
After the shots, he stopped all of this. His Doctor committed suicide last year. His new Doctor put him on a new GFCF diet and added some supplements. He said his first words the week before Father's Day 2008..."Hi Daddy"
I am not in the medical field but I do have more hours dedicated to studying this than my University Degree. I believe that Vaccine is a cause of autism. I know the jury is still out in the world of unbiased experts. I know that the cause and cure are not known. So until that is the case, don't you think we should side with the children that cannot speak? Common sense dictates that something is hurting our kids... We MUST PRROTECT THEM. Help now please
- Tanners Dad July 25, 2008 3:32AM
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My sons silent reply
Firstly thanks for your story.. mirrors us a lot and the pain is as strong today.....
Answers from the scientists please.... All they do is cover their backs rather than use their amazing knowledge and try and help our children and help prevent this happening to more.....
PERHAPS the link is simply like a lottery... some children are able to cope with the injections and some are not (our sons) but rather than sit on the fence wondering. It would be so much better to provide an immunisation that is safe and not full of toxins that simply push our children over the edge. Afterall we all have Autistic traits it's just our poor little children were pushed into the depths of darkness simply because their sytems could not cope. I'm not out to apportion blame I just want the son I gave birth to and who started developing normally... back no more no less .... Thank you Tanner for your support take care x
- bubs August 31, 2008 2:27AM
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Thimerosal is still present in toxic levels in flu shots.
One can see here—www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#t1— from the FDA's own website, that there is still thimerosal (mercury) in flu shots. Simply scroll down to table one. There are influenza vaccines recommended for young children which have twelve and a half to twenty five micrograms of thimerosal. This is the same level that was administered in the childhood vaccines and that has caused concerns about autism over the last decade. It is only in recent years that these flu shots have been advised for pregnant women, babies, and children. Recently CNN reported that only six percent of flu shots administered had less than a trace amount of thimerosal. Why would one expect the rate of autism to go down through removal of mercury from vaccines, when it hasn't, in fact, been removed?
- RobinNemeth July 25, 2008 4:35AM
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Yes...Ask The Parents
Not long after we started a family, I asked a parent of a child with autism what they think happened - why did their healthy "normal" child regress? She recounted the downward spiral that started immediately after a round of vaccines. She also told me that NO parent had EVER asked her that before. Since then I have asked 9 more parents of 9 children with autism. While each story is a little different (some had regression immediately after a round of vaccines and some had a slower regression - illness after illness and loss of skills etc following a round of vaccines) they all point to vaccines. So now, (after hearing from the true experts) I know in my heart that somehow, someway vaccines are linked to autism. The fact that the government lists studies that show no link (YET) does not, in my mind, mean that vaccines are safe for all children. If you haven't done so, ASK parents for their take on their child's regression into autism. I bet you'll hear a lot of similarities.
- YesYesYesYEs July 25, 2008 9:48AM
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Responding to D's Advocate:
D's Advocate, Watch CBS evening news tonight (Friday July 25th) and learn about VACCINE PROFITS: follow the $$$$ trail.................And you tell me, what is it about those darn vaccines that causes damage. Science just hasn't answered it yet, but I for one am confident that we'll all know someday soon.
- YesYesYesYEs July 25, 2008 11:54AM
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Chelation is unproven and highly dubious
Just because you think you see results, doesn't mean that it is because it really works. Removing charged ions/metals from a persons body can cause significant health problems.
It's quite ironic that people can be sold into buying something that is completely unproven, but easily dismiss the overwhelming success and benifits of immunizations.
Food for thought:
http://neurodiversity.com/weblog /
- Ds Advocate July 25, 2008 2:42PM
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Chelation is unproven and highly dubious
Just because you think you see results, doesn't mean that it is because it really works. Removing charged ions/metals from a persons body can cause significant health problems.
It's quite ironic that people can be sold into buying something that is completely unproven, but easily dismiss the overwhelming success and benifits of immunizations.
Food for thought:
http://neurodiversity.com/weblog /
- Ds Advocate July 25, 2008 3:03PM
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