What About Freedom of Speech for Religious People?

Share This Story

Over the last couple of days, we have been treated by the plaintiffs to astonishing intrusions into areas supposedly protected by the First Amendment, including religious freedoms and the political rights of free speech and association. 

It started Wednesday when a Stanford political science professor testified that, in his opinion, organized religion in the United States is such an overwhelming threat to gays and lesbians that they should be declared a vulnerable “minority” entitled to extraordinary legal protections under the US Constitution.  In short, he concluded, “religion is the problem.”

As a result of this “problem,” the witness testified, gays and lesbians in the United States are “politically powerless,” a legal term of art meaning that they are at such a disadvantage so as to be incapable of defending themselves in the political process.  Of course, the notion that the gay and lesbian community is politically feeble should sound backward to anyone, especially living in California.  Common knowledge tells us that gays and lesbians wield substantial political power in our state, both in passing major gay rights legislation and in amassing opposition to Prop 8.  Just one example:  While the California Teachers Association and other labor unions gave millions to the No on 8 campaign, not a single labor union ever contributed to the Yes on 8 campaign.

Of particular concern to the witness was the “breathtaking” numbers of people who volunteered their time in the campaign to help carry Prop 8 to victory.  The volunteer effort was so strong, he said, that it was impossible for gays and lesbians to defeat Prop 8.  And so Prop 8 violates the U.S. Constitution.  Really?  So let me get this straight.  If you lose a campaign because you can’t persuade the majority of people to rally behind you, then you have a constitutional right to nullify the votes of the majority.  Hmm. 

It boggles the mind, truly.

Later Wednesday, lawyers for the plaintiffs started submitting evidence of the “improper” influence of Catholics, Baptists, and other major religious communities in support of the traditional definition of marriage.  As though the First Amendment itself had disappeared, the court allowed their lawyers—over the strenuous objections of our legal defense team—to pry into the internal records of churches, communications between church members and church leaders, and other similar documents revealing these religious organizations’ commitment to protecting traditional marriage. 

For anyone who values the right to associate with others in a church community and freely exercise the tenants of their faith without fear of being dragged into court because of their beliefs, yesterday afternoon’s blitzkrieg by the plaintiffs into our previously protected religious and political freedoms was terrifying to behold.
 
Then Thursday, for the first time (we believe) ever in a court of law, a proponent of a voter initiative was put on the stand to be interrogated under oath about his own political, moral and religious views.  Not only was the Prop 8 supporter forced to reveal his political and religious views under penalty of perjury, but he was further forced to defend and substantiate his views so the court can decide whether his views are “improper.”

Clearly the plaintiffs will go to any lengths—even if it means sacrificing the precious protections of the First Amendment—to achieve their goal of invalidating the vote of the people.

Share This Story

`
gma's picture

What we all have to fight against is the notion that any religion can impose their morals on society .

If we give the catholic church and the moron church the right to define who can marry and who can not, then we could as well allow islam to define which buildings planes must fly into.

Anyone ready to give islam these rights?

If not, say YES to freedom FROM religion.

TB3's picture

Are you suggesting that only the non-religious should be allowed to vote ? Or are you simply suggesting that people from any religion should not be allowed to express their views?
Wasnt JFK catholic?
By the way, on 9/1/2001 we had a muslim intern working for us...as he watched the videos all he could say was 'THIS IS NOT ISLAM!' Many muslims were deeply shocked by those events.

gma's picture

Every individual is entitled to believe anything they want independent whether it is true or false.

However, if we want to maintain our freedoms, we have to resist ALL organized religions' attempts to impose their views on society .

Freedom of religion for every individual.

Freedom of religion for society which thereby ensures freedom of religion for each person.

TB3's picture

That may not be what you are saying, but on the face of it, that is what it looks like. So just how would you go about "resisting organized religions' attempt to impose their views on society "?
Doesnt freedom of speech allow everybody from every religious and non-religious background the ability to express their opinions? And are you sure that those in 'organized religions' will always parrot their religions stance?
If so, what is the difference between religions and political parties, aside from the tax-exempt status? Or maybe it is because many 'organized religions' stick by their beliefs, and party lines can be changed?

MrBook's picture

"Or maybe it is because many 'organized religions' stick by their beliefs, and party lines can be changed? "

All major religions are fluid in their beliefs, otherwise they would have died out a long time ago (and likely never made it to 'major' status).

TB3's picture

It can be argued that all major religions change their beliefs to some minor degree. For some, however, the change is at best minimal. Consider the Shi'a sect of Islam, 'fundamentalist' Christians , and conservative Judaism. Certainly there have been some changes, but each still holds to their own deity.
Political parties, however, change much more drastically. Furthermore, they are by nature subject to opinions of persons where religions rely on their deity/founder, who tends not to be as changeable. So I will ask again: Just how would you go about "resisting organized religions' attempt to impose their views on society ?"

dogon's picture

Very well "reasoned" thoughts Earl...that is just the point is it not....people of faith cannot abide reason....it gets in the way of blind faith of the unseen and what they claim as the unknowable.

Should ones lifestyle conflict with the faith then the lifestyle must be in error and deserves only scorn........wonder how they would feel if faith ....because it cannot stand up to reason and logic...was put up to a proposition 8.......the howls would be deafening.

bhall's picture

by the religious groups themselves.

The Gay population did not go pounding on the doors of the churchs demanding that they change . Just the reverse.

The danger to traditional marriage is not gay marriage , it is the fact that traditional marriage means nothing to the churchs or heterosexual participants. Divorce is easier than buying a used car. Children watch and learn from the commitments their parents make and ignore. And for the Christian belief, what happened to the oath you made before God.

And now they (the religious) cry foul. You should have followed your own teachings and cleaned up your own house before you decided to tell everyone else what they can and cannot do.

I guess I am now the minority, because I do believe in God and the Bible. And I do not have an answer for why people are gay. But I know you cannot force people to follow a certain belief. You can be an example for others to see and you can share your beliefs. but you cant force them to think or feel the same way you do.

User Removed's picture

I think you have the right of it. Whatever spiritual beliefs one may hold, it is a personal and private matter between the individual and their god , or whatever other measure they use to gauge their own moral conduct.

You can learn a lot more about what a man believes by watching his feet than you can by watching his mouth.

eojtus's picture

...for the obvious depth of your thinking...from this agnostic.

Whether he was the Son of God, simply a charismatic man, or never actually existed at all -- your attitude exactly reflects the overall character of Jesus depicted in the canonical "Gospels". The Jesus in the New testament text verbally certainly warns what would happen if people fail to believe him and follow his teachings, but, he never forces anyone to do so, and definitely never gives the slightest indication that his followers should use governmental avenues to even promote, never mind legislate, his teachings. And he emphatically denounces religious hypocrites who "compass land and sea to make one disciple" yet fail to live what they enjoin on others.
I may diagree with your beliefs, but I most certainly highly respect your evident consistency of attitude. I believe that yours is what Jefferson and the other constitutional framers had in mind when they protected religious freedom in this nation.

Sign up for the OV Daily Newsletter

OV Social

 

randomness