The Truth About Feminism - Suzanne Venker Responds to Critics
Several posts ago I
linked you all to an article I wrote called "The Myth of Female
Empowerment." If you missed it, you can scroll down to find it or go to
my website and click on the Articles heading.
Opposing Views posted the article on their site, and some of the comments are as follows:
"Feminism is what gave you the right to write and be taken seriously."
"These
women want to take us back to the stone age and they're oblivious to
the fact that feminism is what has given them the credibility that they
have. Ms. Venker, if not for feminism you'd be at home with kids
crawling all over the place and not have the opportunity nor the time
to state your views."
"It is only because of feminism that [Venker's] opinions are even considered in the public sphere."
The
reason people respond this way to those who argue against feminist
thought is because college professors and the media have been so
successful in preaching feminist theory that few dare to question their
analysis. The other day I turned on the television and heard a female
reporter say that the number of women in the workforce is about to
surpass men -- but there was a caveat. "Women still do not earn as much
as men. We still have a wage gap," she said.
The wage gap is
feminists' signature phony assertion, used to assure Americans that
women are still not viewed as men's equals. What that reporter won't
tell you is that the wage gap between men and women exists b/c it
reflects the choices most women in the country make -- willingly. The
vast majority of women choose
to make concessions for motherhood by opting to move in and out of the
labor force as the needs of their families change. For some, this will
mean women disappear from the marketplace for large chunks of time,
thereby compromising their career trajectories.
The most common
misperception among people -- as evident by the comments above -- is
that feminism is solely responsible for the freedoms women now enjoy.
The truth is far more complex. Feminism has been divided into three
parts: first-wave, second-wave, and third-wave. First-wave feminism
refers to the original feminists of our time: Elizabeth Cady Stanton,
Susan B. Anthony, and the like. These feminists helped to ratify the
19th Amendment to the Constitution, which prohibits the government from
denying any citizen the right to vote based on gender. It was passed in
1919, and ratified by thirty-six states in a little over a year.
Great. Women could now vote. Who would argue with that?
Then
came the Great Depression, which required massive government
intervention into the economy and had major effects on gender issues.
Women went to work in the factories, but the politics of that time --
fostered by the retooling of wartime factories for domestic use --
caused women to be home bound, as wives and mothers. After the war many
women returned home, as much of the industrial economy rushed to rehire
men. This is not to say ALL women did, or that NO woman was "allowed"
to work outside the home. But it is true it was the norm for women to
"stay home," as we call it today. The reasons for this, however, had
more to do with the social and political upheavals of that time than
some full-scale plan to oppress women, as people have been led to
believe.
Then, between the mid-forties and mid-sixties women
grew increasingly frustrated with their role at home because by the
1950s women's lives began to change considerably. The advent of the
washing machine and other modern conveniences allowed women, for the
first time, to explore other ventures. Until that time, women had been
juggling child care alongside mind-numbing household duties. When their
last child trotted off to school, these mothers discovered they had
hours to fill while their clothes were being washed for them. This was an enormous boon for women.
Bu then a problem of a different sort emerged, and that's when second-wave feminism
came on the scene. Some of these women were discontent. With time on
their hands to think about their lives – something women in previous
generations could only dream about – women began to realize they could
have something for themselves if they wanted. But for many women,
hobbies weren’t enough. Many desired the same kind of lives their
husbands enjoyed during the day, and those who were ambitious and
resourceful made it happen --
even if they faced discrimination in the process. Those who were not
able to do this drank, or stewed, or became so emotionally distraught
they found it difficult to be good mothers. Their discontent hung like
a cloud over the house, and Betty Friedan -- who was a great example of
this kind of person -- tapped into this discontent with her book The Feminine Mystique.
And so, in 1963, the idea that women should have their own identities
separate from husbands and children was born -- and women inhaled the
dream.
Unfortunately, feminism didn't stop there. Rather than
just present the idea that life outside the home was one option among
many, that some sort of "balance" between work and family was possible,
feminism morphed into something else. Modern feminism is, at root,
predicated on the notion that women are victims -- that the traditional
definition of men's lives are in fact superior to the traditional
definition of women's lives. As such, feminists have made it their
mission to get women out of the home and into the workforce in mass
droves -- and they've been very successful. But in order to accomplish
this, feminists need Americans on board with their views on two issues:
abortion and day care. Without everyone agreeing on these two issues,
modern feminism ceases to exist.
Ironically, "real" feminists --
the original feminists -- were pro-life. And apparently they're not
alone in their opinions. According to Public Agenda, the premier
nonpartisan polling organization which provides "unbiased and
unparalleled research that bridges the gap between American leaders and
what the public really thinks about issues," 53% of Americans
believe abortion is "morally wrong." A mere 38% believe it is
"acceptable" -- but to listen to the media (where most modern feminists
reside) you wouldn't know this to be true.
As far as day care is
concerned, feminists demand universal child care and see it as
society's duty to help women balance work and family. YET, according to
Public Agenda, 70% of parents with children under 5 agree that “having a parent at home is best" and a full 72% of parents -- including the majority of low-income parents -- believe parents, not the government, are responsible for child care costs.
So
in the end, it is abundantly clear that modern feminists do not speak
for the majority of women in America. For more information about the
truth, I encourage those who are interested to go to www.suzannevenker.com and click on Mom Facts at the top.
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Mr Book,Do me a favour,nearly every great artist was skint from the day he was born to the day he died,recognition only comes after death ,in art.
How many inventors were wealthy before they dicovered something,hardly any,so wealth wise
men did not have an advantage over women.
It has been well documented that men think in different ways to women thus giving them the edge in some things and disadvantages in others.
It is difficult to claim some women are successful,how do you know,are you sure that positive discrimination is not responsible for
their position,or maybe lowering of standards
or any one of dozens of advantages that have been accorded to the female sex.
Many women have not had the education that they merited,do you really think that historically all men have?As far as I can see,
the people in the past who have had the best education came from better off families and were in the mix of 2 males to every 1 female.
The rest of the males were used ,and are still being used as cannon fodder,in some countries
compulsory and in others coerced.Women have never been used this way because society has always valued its women over men even if it didnt believe in pushing education down female throats owing to the fact that women used education for its own sake rather than to benefit society.Who now needs the leg up in education,is it men or women?,who gets most of the uni places and who gets the ritalin ?Who is
taking over the workplace?Which is the sex that is losing jobs and which is the sector gaining,then ask yourself why.
My point is that in every sphere women have more than equal rights,men are the ones suffering,but still all we hear is the continuous lie that women earn less than men for the same job,and this has also been well documented as false.
As for physical and emotional abuse,the latter
women have always been known as past masters at
and the former they are catching up on really quick to the point that lots of studies show that they now commit more d/v than men,and this is not fists,it is all sorts of things including knives.You should really read the real news,not that served up to you by the feminist media .This tends to overlook female crime such as the woman who has confessed to killing 30 men with knives and a whole batch
of others readable only on the internet .
Nobody likes men,Mr.Book,males are natural competitors and most women hate and resent you.
Some women may take the male part in criticism of feminism as this column writer does,but when push comes to shove,there will be no goodwill or equal rights under the law or anything else for the sad sex which they used to call "men".
"Mr Book,Do me a favour,nearly every great artist was skint from the day he was born to the day he died,recognition only comes after death ,in art.
How many inventors were wealthy before they dicovered something,hardly any,so wealth wise"
For centuries women were actively discouraged from even being artists, were unable to show their work or gain commissions. The same goes for inventing... which was actively discouraged. Women were trained from infancy with the idea that their only role in life was to cook/clean/sew and have children .
"men did not have an advantage over women."
Aside from in the law , culture, and religious teachings?
For thousands of years the dominant cultures were built by men using the force of arms. In these cultures women were a commodity that could be bought and traded. Property ownership has been largely absent, and only a tiny minority were ever able to hold positions of political power.
"It has been well documented that men think in different ways to women thus giving them the edge in some things and disadvantages in others."
Yes, but it averages out to no advantage to either sex.
"It is difficult to claim some women are successful,how do you know,are you sure that positive discrimination is not responsible for their position,or maybe lowering of standards or any one of dozens of advantages that have been accorded to the female sex."
That is your hypothesis to prove... not mine.
I know that women are successful because I can see what they have done, and because I have worked with women and am familiar with their abilities. I'm not about to pull punches when it's my rear on the line, and I demand as much from the women that I work with as I do from the men I work with.
"Many women have not had the education that they merited,do you really think that historically all men have?As far as I can see,
the people in the past who have had the best education came from better off families and were in the mix of 2 males to every 1 female."
Again, women were specifically excluded from academic fields and positions of power.
"The rest of the males were used ,and are still being used as cannon fodder,in some countries compulsory and in others coerced."
Not as soldiers in war that is true... but women are still forced into marriage (often no better then slavery) / child bearing, sometimes at extremely young ages... They did not (and in some places still don't) have the right of self determination.
"Women have never been used this way because society has always valued its women over men even if it didnt believe in pushing education down female throats owing to the fact that women used education for its own sake rather than to benefit society."
Can you support that?
"Who is taking over the workplace?"
The ration of men to women in the population is about equal... so unless the ratio is currently equal women are not 'taking over' they are just approaching what, in a equal society, would be expected ratio.
"My point is that in every sphere women have more than equal rights,men are the ones suffering,but still all we hear is the continuous lie that women earn less than men for the same job,and this has also been well documented as false."
[citation needed]
"As for physical and emotional abuse,the latter
women have always been known as past masters at
and the former they are catching up on really quick to the point that lots of studies show that they now commit more d/v than men,and this is not fists,it is all sorts of things including knives."
[citation needed] there as well... and let's not forget about sexual abuse.
"Nobody likes men,Mr.Book,males are natural competitors and most women hate and resent you."
Yes men are natural competitors (as are women) but we are also natural cooperators (we compete and cooperate as it suits our needs, and cooperation with other humans suits our needs far more often then competition).
I get along quite well with the women in my professional and personal life... so you are going to have to show some fairly hefty evidence to support your 'most women hate and resent you' statement.
Two more things that created a boon for the feminist movement. Birth control and the sexual revolution of the sixties and seventies. (You could say they're one in the same. Whatever) The revolution led people to question traditional values and since sex was now a lot more acceptable, thanks to changing attitudes and better birth control, it turned into the thing to do to show your independence. Courtship rituals went out the door, the idea that having a strong family was an honorable thing was toast and women decided they'd rather be individuals and separate from the husband and family than be one with them. Intercourse with their husbands turned into a bargaining chip for good behavior instead of a way to strengthen the relationship and men started looking elsewhere for their satisfaction. I think feminist extremists have a lot to answer for in our modern society . Having said that women should not be oppressed or forced into anything they don't want to do or excluded from doing anything they DO want to do. But neither should women oppress men because they think they were formerly slaves in the last decade. To quote "the great race " (1965) Lesly the do it all man of the hour in the movie said to the feminist extremist, "You're not talking about equal rights... you're talking about some convenient feminine utopia that has all the advantages and non of the responsibilities." think what you all will. Try reading this too. http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001154.cfm
to think that simply the feminists movement has given woman any credibilty at all, on the contrary, thanks to them we have to prove ourselves even more and Gd forbid we should oppose any feminist point of view because we would find ourselves without their support in a NY minute and still ever climbing uphill.
No, as a woman we have to be twice as accurate and twice as honest and bold, just to be considered, and even still are not taken seriously simply because we are woman and no movement will ever change the fact we are woman and not equal to men.
That does not mean we are not effective in our society it simply means that the route the feminists would have us take, the one the men have taken of power and might, will not work for us.We will never have their power and might and why do we want it look what it has given them, ulcers. There is a better way to achieve respect and fighting men will never give it to woman. We are woman and that is pretty special but we will never succeed on the same path that men are on no matter what the feminists tell you. We, as woman, must make new paths and those are not in opposition to men but in complimentary roles. Anything else and any other route is only going to fail and bring further hardship to ourselves and consequently to our families.
Feminists have been over abrasive toward male chavenism, let me be chovenistic, it only hurts themselves, and what men do does not hurt our own feminity, only we can do that.
When woman of America realize they are the sole driving force and very life essence behind a productive America then they will realize that we dont have to do a thing, we already have that power. In other words, a world with woman will not survive, and men know that and have used that power against us and the only way to gain respect of others is to acknowledge our meaningfulness and the males utter necessity for us. Not to hover it over them but to use that which Gd has given us, our gifts of spiritual endownments and support, to not just our advantage but for theirs as well. Womans strength has always been right there inside of us and its us that need to relax and to appreciate ourselves and our abilities and those abilities to the benefit of others and that will benefit ourselves. Attempting to tear down the good old boy system only unites men against woman and will only bring harm to us but showing the good old boy system that we know that they cannot succeed without our combined prayers and physical support. That men indeed will not survive without the magnificence of our very spirits helping them will do more to cause them to acknowledge that Gd made us as their helpers and for them to ignore us or to belittle or harm us in anyway only shows how much they hate themselves because any man who loves himself and wants to prosper will treat the woman in his life with utmost respect and honor! Ladies men already know that without us they fail and they fail big time, everytime! When woman realize their own worth and value to not only men but to this country then they will not have to overstate their own significance it will just happen naturally. Men are not stupid and they see our importance in this heiarchy its only woman who have pushed that envelope to the point of harming ourselves and those around us.
Just an old woman who has seen it all and stands by the old adage that a good man is only as good as the woman who supports him. And a good woman does not have to prove herself but stand in her goodness which is given to her by the Almighty Himself and no one not even a man can take that gift away from us. It is what makes men know that they need us and not even they can destroy that which is inherantly a womans gift to give to a man or to withhold from a man. And Im not talking about sex, thats a fringe benifit of marraige of a man and woman. Im talking about that very feminine spirit that causes men to emulate us,that causes men to envy us and be jealous of us. We dont have to fight men, they should be fighting to get the best of us of the bunch. And good for the man that finds a good woman and sad to the man who lets her go! Amen and Amen.
"When woman of America realize they are the sole driving force and very life essence behind a productive America then they will realize that we dont have to do a thing, we already have that power."
Well, you're not the sole driving force of America, you need me to reproduce. And men are the ones running pretty much everything by themselves. So I'm afraid you don't have that power.
"Gd made us as their helpers and for them to ignore us or to belittle or harm us in anyway only shows how much they hate themselves because any man who loves himself and wants to prosper will treat the woman in his life with utmost respect and honor!"
No, ' god ' made you for the same reason he made men, to keep the human race going and control the planet earth.
"Ladies men already know that without us they fail and they fail big time, everytime!"
Again, you're VERY wrong. Men don't need women at all, and we definitely don't fail without a woman either. I'd say men do better without a woman. Men almost never fail without a woman, and if they do fail then it's most likely not because they don't have a woman, maybe just that's how they are. Men don't 'need' women to be successful, I know LOTS of men who don't have a woman in their life and their actually doing better then most of the ones that do. Men without women don't fail at all, they're actually more successful in most cases.
Your view that men 'need' women is just pompous and stupid. You're the reason why so many more men aren't gonna bother with women, you're basically saying that every man who has a woman in his life only has her because he needs her, in reality, nope. Men don't 'need' women, it's women who need men, otherwise they feel unloved and pointless.
A world without women could survive. A woman without a man will not survive.
Thank you.
“A world without women could survive. A woman without a man will not survive.”
How exactly could a world without women survive? The only way I could see that happening is if there were cloning vats or some such artificial reproduction technology … in which case a world without men could exist just as easily as a world without women.
“No, as a woman we have to be twice as accurate and twice as honest and bold, just to be considered, and even still are not taken seriously simply because we are woman and no movement will ever change the fact we are woman and not equal to men.”
Yes, actually women are equal to men. By what reasoning do you support a counter argument?
“Anything else and any other route is only going to fail and bring further hardship to ourselves and consequently to our families.”
I never realized that “it’s to hard so we should quit” was an actually argument that people would make.
“Feminists have been over abrasive toward male chavenism, let me be chovenistic, it only hurts themselves, and what men do does not hurt our own feminity, only we can do that.”
How so? Chauvinism is an illogical philosophy with a basis in archaic ideas about sexuality, it has no more of a place in the modern world then racism does.
“When woman of America realize they are the sole driving force and very life essence behind a productive America then they will realize that we dont have to do a thing, we already have that power.”
This is also a flawed idea… women do contribute to society , but they are not the sole driving force behind it.
“In other words, a world with woman will not survive, and men know that and have used that power against us and the only way to gain respect of others is to acknowledge our meaningfulness and the males utter necessity for us.”
I’d be remiss if I did not point out that a world without men would be similarly doomed.
“Not to hover it over them but to use that which Gd has given us, our gifts of spiritual endownments and support, to not just our advantage but for theirs as well. Womans strength has always been right there inside of us and its us that need to relax and to appreciate ourselves and our abilities and those abilities to the benefit of others and that will benefit ourselves.”
This sounds like… well nothing… it is a bit full of hollow platitudes and otherwise empty phrases. A woman’s place in this world is not to serve and support men.
“any man who loves himself and wants to prosper will treat the woman in his life with utmost respect and honor!”
A statement that I actually agree with! Yet it does not mandate that a woman be defined primarily by their relationship to a man. Further I find the idea that a man can only prosper through the presence of a woman to be illogical as well. It is fully possible for a human being to live a full and prosperous life without an intimate relationship with another human being.
“Ladies men already know that without us they fail and they fail big time, everytime!”
Be rather careful with that one… can you prove your absolute statement?
“Just an old woman who has seen it all and stands by the old adage that a good man is only as good as the woman who supports him.”
A nice sentiment… but not a necessarily true one.
“We dont have to fight men, they should be fighting to get the best of us of the bunch.”
I find your view of a woman’s role in the courtship process to be rather limiting. There is no reason that a woman cannot pursue a man.
“And good for the man that finds a good woman and sad to the man who lets her go!”
The same can be said for a woman about a man, or about a man and a man, or a woman and a woman. A better phrasing would be:
And good for the person that finds someone they can love, and sad to the person who lets their love go.
be similiarly impaired as well. It appears men/woman need each other very much. I have noticed, in my life, that men are not motivated beyond having food and water and sex, and maybe a bed to sleep in,a toilet, sounds rudimentary and sexist, just an observation over time. It is my opinion that all great men are so great because of a woman somewhere in their lives who supports them and nurtures that brilliance in a way that only a woman can do. Also I truely beleive that woman are given a spiritual gift that men do not possess and that is, again my opinion, something that Gd gave to us as a preservation, if men did not need us for spiritual support they probably would all take the high road the minute times got hard or the minute the woman back talks to them, but because we add a whole new dimension to their lives we are assured their welcome advances throughtout history, a great idea Gd initiated if you ask me!
Man with man and woman with woman would not have that same Gd given spiritual gift that Gd planned so that men would succeed only if they had a woman to help them and woman would succeed with the help of a man, its a genius idea, that the other two unions do not, nor ever will, possess. Again, thanks be to Gd in heaven otherwise we woman would be cast aside in the brutal often powerhungry male dominant society ! Smiles
“It appears men/woman need each other very much. I have noticed, in my life, that men are not motivated beyond having food and water and sex, and maybe a bed to sleep in,a toilet, sounds rudimentary and sexist, just an observation over time.”
The same could be said for women in my experience… which is to say that a significant portion of the population has little motivation beyond seeing their most basic needs met.
“Man with man and woman with woman would not have that same Gd given spiritual gift that Gd planned so that men would succeed only if they had a woman to help them and woman would succeed with the help of a man, its a genius idea, that the other two unions do not, nor ever will, possess.”
Actually it would appear from reading the Bible that God messed up when he made man and had to go back and create women later on.
That is also not shown by the number of successful people who are homosexual or remain single throughout their life.
“Again, thanks be to Gd in heaven otherwise we woman would be cast aside in the brutal often powerhungry male dominant society ! Smiles”
Yet one of the largest sources of oppression for women has come from organized religion .
Feminism is based on the theory (not fact) that men and women are equal and should be given equal rights.
Equal rights in ok, human beings are in love of justice and fairness.
But pretend that men and women are equal is unreal.
Think, that in any country arround the world it does not exists a company run enterly by women and sucessfull.
Another thing, in every country arround the world, the number of scientists and artists are always more men than women.
It is very recognized womens multi task hability, but men's single focus hability has its advantages too (yes I said that men's mind has advantages over women's minds).
We (men and women) need to appreciate each other, but I think women fall short in gratitude.
Men invented pretty much everything.
But somehow in america women resent men and fear men,
I would like to take that fear (wicht will become hatred if has not already) and turn it into gratitude.
In the western world there is a concern about womens health , but not so much about mens health. Men die 5 years earlier and no one cares.
Suzanne Venker is very right, this is a great and brave article. Contratulations Suzanne.