Study Says it's Possible to Leave Homosexuality
NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- In findings that directly contradict mainstream academic thought, 53 percent of subjects in a new seven-year study reported successfully leaving homosexuality and living happily as heterosexual or celibate persons.
The study by psychologists Stanton L. Jones of Wheaton College and Mark A. Yarhouse of Regent University is a follow-up to one released two years ago in the form of a book, "Ex-Gays?" That study was called groundbreaking, and the latest set of data is no less significant, the researchers say.
The men followed 61 subjects over a span of six to seven years, recording their failures and successes in their attempt to leave homosexuality. Experts in the field call it the first attempt to follow subjects who are undergoing Christian counseling over a series of years. Such a time-consuming study is called "longitudinal."
Among their findings:
-- 23 percent reported a successful conversion to heterosexual attractions.
-- 30 percent reported living a celibate life and were content with their reduction in homosexual attractions. Altogether, those latter two categories were combined for a 53 percent success rate, the researchers said.
-- 16 percent of subjects had modest decreases in homosexual attractions and weren't satisfied with their degree of change but were committed to continuing the process.
-- 7 percent had seen no decrease in homosexual attractions but had not given up trying to change.
-- 25 percent of subjects were considered "failures," either because they gave up on the process and once again identified as a homosexual (20 percent) or because they had not yet embraced a homosexual identity but nevertheless had given up (5 percent).
All the subjects were going through programs set up by Exodus International, a Christian ministry that seeks to help those who want to leave homosexuality. Although Exodus funded the study, Jones and Yarhouse agreed to conduct it only if all sides agreed that they would report the results no matter the outcome -- in other words, even if the findings embarrassed Exodus.
The latest findings were released four days after an American Psychological Association task force released a 130-page report that said "gay-to-straight" therapies are unlikely to work. That report got mixed reviews from conservatives, although APA's position on the issue is well-known: It believes homosexual attractions are "normal and positive variants" of human sexuality. The APA's website still states, "[T]here has been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapy aimed at changing sexual orientation (sometimes called reparative or conversion therapy) is safe or effective."
"The APA has previously asserted, with absolute clarity, that sexual orientation change is not possible -- that it simply doesn't occur," Jones, of Wheaton College, told Baptist Press. "The best way to test that is to study people as they're attempting change and follow them over a long period of time. Our study found that a significant portion of that population reported very significant change."
He added, "My sense is that our study is a good sample, and so I think that people can pursue the Exodus process with a cautious sense of optimism about the possibility of change, but we can't make absolute predictions."
Comparing the latest data to the initial set of data released two years ago, there was a significant increase in both the "success" and "failure" percentages and a decrease in the percentage of those who, at the time, had seen no significant change.
The percentage of those who considered themselves successful in changing increased from 38 percent to 53 percent, while the percentage of those who the researchers considered failures also went up, 12 percent to 25 percent. At the same time, the percentage of those who had seen only modest change or no change but had not given up on the change effort decreased from 44 percent to 23 percent.
The study actually began with 98 subjects, but 37 dropped out by the six-year mark for various reasons, Jones said. Some now considered themselves ex-homosexual and no longer wanted to be reminded about their past, while some went back to a homosexual identity and no longer trusted the researchers. Most of them, though, wouldn't return phone calls.
Jones expressed frustration that the APA task force didn't take their 2007 study seriously.
"They selectively apply rigorous scientific standards," he said. "So when it comes to examining the evidence that sexual orientation change can occur, they apply extraordinarily rigorous standards, and those standards allow them to disregard significant evidence that sexual orientation change can occur. That's what happens with our study. They, I think, invalidly applied several methodological concerns to dismiss our study.
"When the evidence goes against the view they're expressing, they apply strong scientific standards. And when the evidence goes with the views they're expressing, they're considerably more accepting."
The latest set of data is the final set from the researchers. A lack of funding, as well as a belief that the data is conclusive, has resulted in them stopping the longitudinal study. They will, though, continue to analyze the current data.
"In our experience from discussing with the subjects, an awful lot of them just want to move on," Jones said. "We had to really persuade people to stay in for this final assessment."
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Just want to point something out, but there is a lack of evidence to back up our arguments. Whether the arguments are true or not, "whether it is a chioce", you wont win anything till you have a article or some major study backing it up... It now seems that the far right has some new evidence (as skewed as it may be) to some how crush and counter most arguments (usually because to many people use the APA to back up their claims), with this new article from the APA. So just to be the devils advocate (no pun for the religiously insane) what study these days do we actually have to prove that we never made a conscious decision to be this way, nor can we change, nor is it even right for people to ask us to change. How do we prove that being a certain way is normal, natural, not wrong, and shouldnt be asked to change to a population that is constantly squandering for someone to pick on and for some new view point to back up their rediculous prejudices.
Actually, every major study for the past 60 years or so indicates that sexual orientation is innate and fixed, not something which can be essentially altered through any type of therapy, including physical torture . The evidence is clear.
While a certain percentage of people will express a "homosexual identity" earlier in life and later go on to engage in a heterosexual relationship, such people are quite clearly bisexual, and often report attractions to persons of both genders. The fact that a given percentage of the population is bisexually oriented and quite capable of satisfying and fulfilling relationships with persons of either gender cannot be extrapolated as "evidence" that truly homosexually-oriented people can "change" their sexual orientation from gay to straight through "reparative therapy," physical torture, abstinence , or by any other means.
sorry but i think it is only fair that i ask what some of these studies are. I accused hope7 for not haveing specific data it is only fair i do the same for everyone else.
Here's a good run-down of some of the studies, as well as the definitive statements of professional psych organizations regarding the immutable and inherent nature of same-gender orientation, as well as it's being a natural, healthy state of being for a relatively constant percentage of the population.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_prof.htm
Studies which support the idea that sexual orientation can be changed through therapy are generally extremely flawed in a number of ways. For a whole ream of studies and counter-studies on this and related topics, see the UCDavis site: http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/bibabs.html #abs2007b
The "researchers" started with 98 subjects who evidently wanted to convert to heterosexuality, perhaps for religious or other reasons. Probably, therefore, they were only mildly oriented toward homosexuality to begin with, or may have been bisexual. Of those 98, only 14 (reported as 23% of the 61 who didn't quit) reported a conversion to heterosexual attractions. Another 18 couldn't do that, so simply abstained from sex altogether. When you start with a preselected group of homosexuals or bisexuals who actively want to change, that's a pretty poor outcome. I think their failure is quite obvious.
"Jones expressed frustration that the APA task force didn't take their 2007 study seriously."
maybe it's because the failure rate was really 56% when you factor in everyone who participated and total up those who had no change away from homosexual desires. Your statistics only counted failures who lasted atleast six years of telling them that their natural feelings are evil and only considered someone a failure if they actually gave up on conversion therapy! The study should have admitted openly that the program was largely unsuccessful in it's goal and admitted openly that the only way to "fail" was to stop trying. Do you really wonder why the APA ignored the study and/or dismissed it as scientifically suspect? You skewed your results and were appropriately ignored for it!
This is similar to the reason the christian prison ministry study was roundly refuted and ignored. in that "study" anyone who didn't last throughout the entire program was dropped from all of the statistics.
When you put the real numbers together, it shows that both of these studies prove that the programs are miserable failures and that the "results" are modified to pretend a higher success rate was acheived than in actuality.
What's most disturbing is that "30%" (which is really 18%) chose to remain celibate rather than defy their natural feelings. I find it hilarious that more subjects chose celibacy than those that managed to work up some feelings for the opposite sex, but on the other side of the token it's sickening that the program, and the researchers, considered 'celibacy' to be an acceptable result.
How screwed in the head must you get a person to convince them that celibacy is a healthy alternative to natural desires that can't be gotten rid of?
Turning someone celibate in a sexual conversion program is a failure and an abuse of the mind. Have you ever wondered why it's usually the Catholic priest who is molesting children ? Could it be because their Protestant counterparts aren't forced into ignoring their perfectly normal sexual desires? It's an atrocity against the body and the mind!
So after six (or seven) years, which is about as long as it takes to go through enough higher education to get a masters degree in almost any field you can think of (like law , science or engineering), the real statistics are thus:
- 14% turned to heterosexual attraction (which is lower than I would have thought considering sexuality lives on a sliding scale of hetero-homo attraction, but then again, why would a bisexual want to get rid of one side when they can choose to just stick with the social norm? I think it's because bisexuals often have a preference and many of these leaned gay and wanted to lean straight for whatever reason... Like familial verbal abuse)
- 10% felt slightly less attracted to the same sex (I'm sure the constant demonization of homosexuality had nothing to do with that)
- 4% felt exactly the same after over six years of "therapy"
- 18% are so confused they gave up on sex entirely!
- 12% realized they were gay! ... After over SIX years of trying to talk them out of it
- 3% still won't admit they're gay but nevertheless went through six years of abuse
- 37% decided to drop out early (many of whom no longer trust the researchers)
Unlike liars for Jesus, honest researchers chose to ignore your study. To use it would require notations that would show that author's summary is wrong... Which would lead to confusion.
The problem with this study is that it refuses to accept it's own conclusion and has caused two, possibly very intelligent, researchers to call a 14% goal-achievment rate to be a 53% successful "conversion" rate. It goes against everyone else's integrity to acknowledge the study!
The icing on this case: the study was funded by the organization that runs the program. While not always a "stop sign" for paying attention to a study, it sure as hell makes "confidence" into a commodity in short supply!
what you choose to be. It's very popular nowadays to blame your own nasty, ugly choices on anything but yourself.
If you choose to screw a goat, that makes you a goat screwer. If you choose to molest children, then that makes you a shitbag child molester
It's not the other way around. You don't screw goats because you have been born a goat screwer any more than you molest children because you have a "child molesting gene"
We all choose to be the things we are, and anything else is slavery.
If I was really messed up, and had sex with a man, I can CHOOSE not to do it again.
I have POWER over WHO I AM. You liberal excuse makers are just slavers, trying to take away choice and freedom, like you always do.
Who gives you the right to tell people they can't change?
Battling a social order that cries out for people to pursue any desire no matter how immoral is no small affair but it seems no matter how small the percentage that some are able to do it.
Why you would denounce celibacy is unkown to me. It's also perfectly natural human state.
Now I wouldn't question your intelligence but if your goal is to try and discredit something by showing the statistical error then you should try and get your numbers right.
37 of 98 is closer to 38% many of which stated had given up on the lifestyle and merely didn't want to be reminded. Now it was also stated that this foundation was helping those seeking help. I think you can get over your image of a bunch of homos being locked in a room and suffering through some sort of brainwashing.
And that 37 you stated is the closest you got to any mathematical accuracy! But maybe it's just your reading comprehension that is lacking as much as your understanding that someone would actually seek a more morally ethical life.
Homosexuality is not immoral, next.
"Why you would denounce celibacy is unkown to me. It's also perfectly natural human state."
Maybe until marriage , but no it's not perfectly natural. It's a religious state, not a human state. No one would be celibate if it weren't suggested they should be.
"37 of 98 is closer to 38%"
Ha! Ok, your right. It's actually 37.7551020408163265% and I didn't round up. You totally win that one! Go you!
"many of which stated had given up on the lifestyle and merely didn't want to be reminded"
And also many of whom realized they were gay. But "most" of whom wouldn't even return the phone call.
I stated openly that as far as we know ALL 98 participants volunteered, that is not really up for debate. But regardless of whether it was in a locked room or just visits to a drive through therapist (none of which is true, nor did I imply), it's still an attempt at brainwashing. Just because you agree with it, doesn't mean it's not. Changing a persons sexuality is brainwashing, even if your attempting to turned a straight man gay or a gay man straight.
Homosexuality is not antithetical to a morally ethical life. It doesn't matter what sex an adult is attracted to as long as the relationship is with another consenting adult. You are wasting your time worrying about other people's bedroom practices.
Please, I would absolutely LOVE to hear why homosexuality is unethical. I know why you think it's immoral (cause the invisible sky daddy inspired someone to write that down about 3500 years ago in the desert), but unethical?! Come on!
Amen to everything Rice klowN said.
The thing is, anyone who wants to do a "study" on the "success rates" of "conversion therapy" is guaranteed of having a small core group of "successes," because, as Rice klowN pointed out, sexuality is on a curve or spectrum, and a certain percentage of people DO fall at exactly the 50% mark, where they could easily fall in love with someone of either gender. Such persons, if involved with someone of their own gender (or confused an upset by attractions to their own gender which cannot be explained by what they learned in Sunday School), can be fairly easily persuaded to "give up the gay identity" and "become straight." Such persons can readily find happiness and fulfillment in a "straight" relationship. It was in their nature and sexual orientation to do so from the get-go. When they "renounce homosexuality ," they are renouncing something they never truly were in the first place. They are BIsexual, not HOMOsexual. They are merely "renouncing" one side of their sexual orientation, but can readily find happiness in the other side.
Such is not the case for someone who is homosexually oriented. That's why the majority of people in this "study" did NOT "become heterosexual," but rather became celibate, kept trying to become celibate but failed because they couldn't stop seeking the love, intimacy and personal fulfillment that we human beings are designed to crave (from a person of whichever gender we are oriented towards), or quit the study altogether.
Putrid stuff here, aimed, NOT at "helping" anyone, but rather at inserting seeds of doubt into the minds of well-meaning people to assist them in believing that gay people are gay because we "choose" to be gay, not because God made us this way. Then they have an easier time voting for measures like Prop 8, because, after all, if gay people can CHOOSE to "become straight," why should we acknowledge their relationships or care that their civil rights are trampled upon?