Starbucks and Guns: Open Danger, Concealed Danger
By Dennis Henigan
As thousands of concerned citizens continue to sign the Brady Campaign’s petition calling on Starbucks to change its policy allowing customers with guns into its stores (as of this writing, up to 33,000 and counting), there have been two particularly revealing responses to the controversy: one from Starbucks and the other from leading “gun rights” supporters.
Starbucks became embroiled in the gun controversy when it responded to gatherings of “gun rights” activists in its stores, carrying highly visible guns strapped to their hips, by refusing to adopt a “no guns” policy, as had California Pizza Kitchen and other similarly targeted retail chains. Starbucks recently issued a statement defending its policy by citing concern for the safety of its employees. To prohibit the open carry of guns in its stores, says Starbucks, “we would be forced to require our partners [employees] to ask law abiding customers to leave our stores, putting our partners in an unfair and potentially unsafe position.”
Of course, that raises this question: Why would it be “potentially unsafe” to ask “law abiding customers” to leave because they are violating company policy? Starbucks seems to be saying that, if its employees asked the gun-toters to leave, some of these “law abiding customers” would respond by creating a threat to employee safety. Is this not an admission by Starbucks that it currently is allowing armed and potentially dangerous people into its stores? Plus, it is surely self-contradictory to label the gun-toters “law abiding customers” while, in the same sentence, suggesting that, if asked to leave, some of these same customers would resist the request, thereby violating trespass laws? These “law abiding customers” don’t sound very law abiding to me.
Ironically, Starbucks’ management seems to share the safety concerns of its many customers who feel threatened by the well-armed people who now have a home in the company’s coffee houses. But the company has concluded that it must tolerate armed and potentially dangerous people in its stores because it would be more dangerous to ask them to leave. Does Starbucks really believe there is no way it can maintain a “no guns” policy without endangering its baristas?
I suggest that it take a page from its competitor, Peet’s Coffee & Tea. When Peet’s also was confronted with the prospect of meetings of the “open carry” crowd in its stores, it immediately announced a “no guns” policy, said it would post signs to that effect in its stores, and added that “in the event a customer enters the store displaying a firearm and is not a uniformed law enforcement officer, we have instructed our store management teams to immediately call their local police department for assistance.” Peet’s figured out a way to protect the comfort and safety of its customers without endangering its employees; that is, by relying on law enforcement. Why can’t Starbucks do the same?
The other revealing reaction – from leaders of the “gun rights” movement – is to suggest that the “open carry” people may be hurting the gun rights cause. For example, Bob Barr, my erstwhile debate opponent when he was in Congress, recently suggested that “firearms advocates might be better advised not to press the issue publicly by pointedly visiting Starbucks establishments with firearms openly displayed. Sometimes quiet advocacy speaks louder than waving a red flag in someone’s face.” Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation (generally considered more extreme than the NRA) told The New York Times, “I’m all for open-carry laws. But I don’t think flaunting it is very productive for our cause. It just scares people.”
Both Barr and Gottlieb are strong proponents of the “more guns, less crime” ideology – the idea that the more guns there are in homes, and in public places, the safer those places will be because criminals will be deterred from attacking when armed, law abiding citizens are present to resist. It is, therefore, surprising for them to take a dim view of the open carrying of guns. According to their “more guns, less crime” logic, locations where open carry occurs should be the safest of all, because criminals will have no doubt that their attacks likely will be met by armed resistance. At the very least, the Barr/Gottlieb comments concede that other Starbucks customers do not share their confidence in the public safety benefits of open carry. Instead, as Gottlieb says, open carry “just scares people.”
Implicitly, Barr and Gottlieb are advising gun owners who want to carry guns in public to keep them concealed from view; that is, make sure the danger is hidden. Perhaps this exposes their real concern about the open carry movement – that it eventually will cause a surge in public concern about the far more prevalent concealed carrying of guns made possible by the gun lobby-supported “shall-issue” laws passed in most states during the last two decades making it far easier to obtain licenses to carry concealed weapons. They also likely fear that open carry may intensify public opposition to recent efforts to gradually expand the locations in which concealed carry may occur –such as parks, bars, college campuses, even airports. After all, it’s not the “openness” of open carry that scares people – it’s the presence of the guns themselves and the inherent danger they entail. The only reason there is not an equivalent reaction to concealed carry is that the danger is, by definition, hidden from view.
The evidence is overwhelming that the “shall-issue” concealed carry laws have been a disaster for public safety. They have allowed dangerous people to obtain concealed carry licenses, those people have committed grievous crimes, and the scholarly research shows that the laws generally have been “associated with uniform increases in crime.” But the danger becomes evident to the public only episodically – when someone with a concealed carry license shoots someone accidentally or commits a violent act, such as the six multiple shootings committed by concealed carry licensees in 2009 alone. What if concealed carry licensees had to reveal they were packing whenever they entered Starbucks or other public places? The debate over guns in public would be far different.
“Gun rights” advocates like Barr and Gottlieb have good reason to fear that their “guns anywhere” agenda would be threatened if the open carry movement starts causing the public to understand the true danger of guns in public – the open danger, and the concealed danger as well.

I think to balance it out Star bucks should allow employees be armed. The fact that managers are scared to refuse service because they are armed speaks volumes. Anyone who has worked in customer service knows how crazy customers can get. Open Carry is more about intimidating people who aren't armed than anything else
I believe that when Starbucks talks about the "unsafe situation" if it were to change its policy was to suggest more along the lines of announcing to criminals their stores are now a Free Crime Zone where their victims will surely be unarmed.
Open carry does scare some people, but as an open carrier myself I carried everywhere I was legally allowed to in my city in California daily for over 6 months before I had one person call the police in "fear". I had carried openly at several Peete's Coffee in Pasadena over a dozen times and didn't have an issue, and Pasadena is "liberal central.
And the reason that some 2A organizations are stepping away from open carry is that, like any organization that faces such potentially violent radical opposition, such as GBLT or ethnic minorities have had to, they are averse to the idea of being thrust into the light.
I will NOT patronize a business that does not allow me to carry my weapon; and there are very few of them in my area that don't.
I simply feel safer in such establishments. Both sides of the debate use facts and statistics to bolster their arguement, but the open carry advocates cite reasons that are based on believable logic.
It is absurd to think that people who are open carrying are going to get into an arguement that causes a shoot out; it simply has never happened. But it is NOT absurd to think that someone who has his mind set on malicious behavior is going to change his mind upon seeing armed patrons.
I carry for several reasons: 1. Because I can. 2. Because it is my rightful duty to protect myself and my family . 3. Because I believe that the more people see citizens open carrying in a responsible manner, the more they will get used to it.
Why is only Starbucks being targeted? I understand their position but what about all the other establishments that do not say anything about carrying weapons inside. More than likely they are just staying out of the light but come on, its not just Starbucks.
^ That's pretty much my guess.
A lot of people drink coffee and as such coffee shops are plentiful and crowded. Similar to gas stations, coffee shops get frequented by all types of people from open til close. Because of the high traffic there's a certain level of exposure to the public that you'd get at gas station, coffee shop, or convenience store that you don't quite get at other places [depends on how dense the population is].
These types of businesses do exponential business because of the ease of finding the commodities they provide. That means that in a rural or urban setting they may not be doing the large transactions but they are likely doing the most transactions.
Carrying a firearm at Starbucks, you are exposed to more of the public than carrying a firearm down the sidewalk on your block or driveway [with the exception of your street being a main road]. This is presumably what's put Starbucks in the light. Exposure to not just the law -abiding open carry advocates but also to the law-abiding anti-gun advocates.
At some point it becomes the cliche of "Can't we all just get along?"
The traffic at the places I've mentioned means that there's guaranteed to be cash on hand and the placement of such establishments usually provides a quick get-away for criminals. Due to these typical properties I think it's reassuring that people are carrying at Starbucks. I also feel that convenience store clerks, gas station attendants, and coffee shop employees should also look into their Second Amendment. (:
This barista sure did: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv1KvThjqV8
Brady's wording gets more and more hilarious every time they write a work of fiction. This one tickled by funny bone:
"[...]carrying highly visible guns strapped to their hips"
Really? Highly visible? Were these neon green guns? Or were they coated in tritium so they could be seen at night?
Me thinks Brady needs to spend a little less time thinking up new adjectives and more time researching facts. Idiots.
"Ironically, Starbucks’ management seems to share the safety concerns of its many customers who feel threatened by the well-armed people who now have a home in the company’s coffee houses. But the company has concluded that it must tolerate armed and potentially dangerous people in its stores because it would be more dangerous to ask them to leave."
I found that to be the most disgusting regurgitation of poison I've had to read in quite some time. The VITRIOL being spewed is so over-dramatic, so over-the-top, that it suggests law -abiding citizens will overtake Starbucks if asked to leave. In fact HENIGAN seems to distort the statement from Starbucks with his own IRRATIONAL FEAR, spinning the statement completely out of context...
After reading the entire letter from Starbucks, they appear to be in favor of following all State laws . They also take a COMMON SENSE APPROACH, identifying irresponsible and illegal use of firearms as a problem. The letter reads, quite clearly, that Starbucks respects the customers' rights and understands the DANGER OF GUN-FREE ZONES. At no point did I MISCONSTRUE the letter, as HENIGAN did, to arrive at the brash conclusion that by asking armed citizens to leave it would create a hostile situation.
If at any point the partners [employees] of Starbucks felt threatened they could contact law enforcement. It's not as though the open carry activists were holding anyone hostage . Quite the opposite, I'll bet those Starbucks frequented by half a dozen carriers are the safest coffee shops in California.
If I opened up my own coffee shop I'd have a sign on the front door and perhaps even in the window making it mandatory to carry. I'd have some of the most polite, most law-abiding customers in town and I'd have a lot going for me in the way of a deterrent to being robbed. The criminals will march their way over to Peet's where they won't find any resistance.
The only thing I don't like about this is California's law requiring that the loaded magazine not be attached. In Washington State four police officers were shot by a lone gunman and there was nothing, in that instance, that they could do with their attached, loaded magazines.
Increasing the ability to counter a threat by ~0.5-1.0 seconds matters quite a bit when everything unfolds within ~3.0-5.0 seconds.
California law SHOULD be changed to allow for attached magazines. Otherwise a determined criminal with a weapon that's already loaded is going to have the advantage. Fortunately I live in a State which allows me to conceal my loaded weapon. In Florida I am adequately able to hold civil conversations with antis because they don't get to put their eyes on the tool they irrationally fear.
The misrepresentations in this article are numerous, and I don't have the space to address them all, so I will address the worst of all:
"The evidence is overwhelming that the “shall-issue” concealed carry laws have been a disaster for public safety . They have allowed dangerous people to obtain concealed carry licenses, those people have committed grievous crimes, and the scholarly research shows that the laws generally have been “associated with uniform increases in crime .”
This is a 100% flat out LIE!!! I can cite MULTIPLE sources (and will if need be), that point to the exact opposite. More guns in the hands of law -abiding citizens = LESS CRIME. You know, I know it, and so will anyone who chooses to do a little research. How about starting here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyoLuTjguJA
How about this too- Florida adopted a right-to-carry law in 1987. Between 1987 and 1996, these changes occurred:
Homicide rate decreased 36%
Firearm homicide rate decreased 37%
Handgun homicide rate decreased 41%
Don't you dare pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. I know the TRUTH, and you and rest of the Brady Campain can't hide it with your rhetoric and propaganda.
The first problem is, it does nothing to distinguish between the effectiveness of political actions, and the merits of carry for self defense .
Second, why would Starbuck's PR response to open carry be of any use in understanding the merits of carry?
Really, this article is just observations about the politics of carry, with two links and a paragraph about the actual issue of carry.
But that is on par for most discussions of a political nature these days. Of more use to the public, but perhaps less political utility to the author, would be a thoughtful discussion on the merits of carry itself.
For people that are interested in the utility of carry, wikipedia is a good starting point, including this: "The National Research Council, the working arm of the National Academy of Sciences, claims to have found "no credible evidence" either supporting or disproving Lott's thesis".
I've yet to see opinion pieces on this debate that provide any real insight into the issue.