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Masterpiece Cakeshop Refuses to Bake Wedding Cake for Gay Couple
Weddings are notoriously tough to plan. The lead-up is often so stressful, taxing and mildly traumatic that sometimes one can’t help but wonder if they're even worth the trouble.
Now, take the pressure and anxiety that comes standard with normal weddings, and multiply it times two to understand what Dave Mullins, 28, and Charlie Craig, 31, had to work with last week.
On July 19, Mullins and Craig stopped by Masterpiece Cakeshop in Lakewood, Colo. to pick out a cake for their looming wedding reception. The order wasn’t supposed to take long and it certainly wasn’t supposed to get as complicated as it ultimately got. In what they presumably thought was a simple request, the couple ordered a “rainbow-layered masterpiece decked out in teal and red frosting,” according to the Denver Westword.
Simple enough, right? Not so much.
Jack Phillips, the owner of the bakery, patiently listened to their request and order specifications, and then promptly turned them away.
He doesn’t do gay weddings, apparently.
Needless to say, that put a slight damper on the festivities.
"It was the most awkward, surreal, very brief encounter," Mullins told the Westword. "We got up to leave, and to be totally honest, I said, 'F*** you and your homophobic cake shop.' And I may or may not have flipped him off."
Naturally, when Mullins got home, he posted a recap of what transpired to Facebook. From there the news spread like wildfire to all sorts of pro-gay websites. Shortly after that, tales of similar treatment at the hands of Mr. Phillips and his bakery emerged.
The Westword tried to get the full story regarding what happened by seeking out a comment from the Masterpiece Cakeshop, but they were met with a frosty reception.
“We have nothing to say about that," and “"We don't want to talk about that, so you'll just have to make something up." a staff member told Westword.
Business owners should have the right to refuse service to whomever they wish to refuse service to. That’s the great thing about owning your business. But much in the same way that a business can have the right to refuse service at will, the general public has the right to publicly shame and embarrass that business in whatever manner they see fit. And all of the people who are for a business’ right to reject customers as they see fit, should also be for peoples’ rights to rail against businesses whose practices they disagree with.
The ability to express yourself works both ways like that.
Remember: freedom to do what you do is not the same thing as freedom to do what you do without having to hear other people’s opinions on it.
(Kudos Denver Westword)
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Comments
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One of these days, we might
One of these days, we might read that a male actor was asked to appear in a commercial in bed with his partner, but turned down the job when he learnt that the partner to be was another male actor. Can he also expect to get sued, for being equally discriminating about which jobs he takes on, out of all those jobs that people want to commission him for?
Freedom of expression includes the freedom of an artist NOT to express an idea he or she disagrees with, because somebody offers him or her money to do so.
It would be unreasonable for a checkout operator to ask a customer in a supermarket his or her sexual orientation, even if he or she had picked an iced cake off the shelf. But that is not the situation here.
So many are reading into this
So many are reading into this what the writer wants you to, that the owner was Christian and his refusal of the order was due to them being homosexual. No where does this story say either. The men stopped by to place this order {"“rainbow-layered masterpiece decked out in teal and red frosting,” according to the Denver Westword."} The owner turns them away and it doesn't give owner's exact words used as he turned them away. Then Mullens says: "He doesn’t do gay weddings, apparently" That is not evident at all that the owner was Christian nor that he refused because the couple was gay. Maybe the owner didn't like the order due to the "masterpiece" the couple ordered because possible he just did the average generic wedding cakes and didn't feel 100% confident he could handle a cake like they were ordering. Then maybe the owner just didn't like the attitude of the men having nothing to do with the gay issue. But if the owner was turning them away because he did not want to do a gay wedding cake, it still never points to him being Christian. What if he was a Muslim, they hate the man who is gay and want him to die? They do not only oppose same sex marriage like the Christians profess. It's incredible how people love to bash Christians for no apparent reason at all. Then the man could have been an Atheist or a Agnostic and still felt too macho to do a gay wedding cake. Any reason to bash Christianity is better than none it seems. And if the owner was a Christian, he has that right to refuse on the grounds of his religious convictions. I suppose you Christ bashers feel that Christians shouldn't have the liberty to worship as they please. Then the couple had the right to smear him on facebook as well.
Shop owner Jack Phillips'
Shop owner Jack Phillips' religious convictions are irrelevant, the only important issue is did he refuse service because the couple is gay. The shop's website claims "Jack Phillips, master pastry chef, creates your cake to order. Custom cakes are his specialty: If you can think it up, he can make it into a cake!" The cake's complexity doesn't seem to be an issue and the shop has made no comments concerning the couples attitude.
Local Denver area blogs have posted several similar past instances where gays were refused service by Masterpiece Cakeshop. Mr. Phillips is quoted in a recent news article making this illogical statement “If gays come in and want to order birthday cakes or any cakes for any occasion, graduations, or whatever, I have no prejudice against that whatsoever. It’s just the wedding cake, not the people, not their lifestyle.” So he'll sell a wedding cake to anybody except a gay couple but he's not really a bigot because he'll sell them a birthday cake.
Mr. Phillips is using his business to make a political statement & effect social policy. He can't legally do that under current Colorado law. Being critical of his bigotry is not Christian bashing nor is it depriving him of his 1st amendment liberties.
"Knowledge is good." - Emil Faber
"So he'll sell a wedding cake
"So he'll sell a wedding cake to anybody except a gay couple but he's not really a bigot because he'll sell them a birthday cake."
So I was right. As I said, it wasn't because the customers were gay that he turned down their order. It was because of the type of cake they wanted. What law is there against that? He can make his "political statement" any way he wants, although, in this case, all he did was refused to make somebody else's "political statement" for them, if you want to put it in those terms. Freedom of speech includes the freedom not to be forced to make statements one disagrees with. Why won't people just accept that graciously?
Excellent post, Bayougal.
Excellent post, Bayougal.
It's great that society at
It's great that society at large is doing its part to let this shop owner know that his views are both wrong and outdated. Unfortunately, his business is in Colorado and there's no shortage of bible-thumping, homophobic bigots there who are willing to support him.
It's not like baking and decorating a cake is giving your endorsement of gay marriage, it's just a simple business transaction and it wouldn't cause him any real hardship. Feeling the need to inject his religious views into his business transactions can, and will, have some repercussions for his business.
The again, the guy works in a cake shop - how could he not have expected to come into close contact with gays on a frequent basis?
Businesses should be able to
Businesses should be able to reserve the right to refuse anyone they please. The gay couple reserve the right to expose them to the public all they want. I expected to read that the gay couple had filed a lawsuit against the baker like I read so many times about. That is what makes me so sick when a gay couple does not get served in some sort of business, they run to file a lawsuit. All is fair here.
Could I refuse to serve
Could I refuse to serve Christians in my business? How about blacks? Should it be legal to refuse to serve women?
If, for example, you were
If, for example, you were Jewish, or Moslem, or an Atheist, I think you'd be perfectly entitled to refuse an order to make a cake to celebrate a christening, but not to refuse an order for (say) a birthday cake, merely because the person having the birthday happened to be a Christian.
If one belonged to a religion that disapproved of celebrating birthdays, and probably even if one didn't, one would be entitled to have a "no birthday cakes" policy.
you can refuse anyone you
you can refuse anyone you want. But even if you dont believe in God. then evolution evolved man with a penis and women with a vagina and that is the only way to reproduce. God or not being gay is going against natural laws. Your only argument is you can do what you want.
Legally a place of public
Legally a place of public accommodations can't refuse goods/services without a legitimate business reason. In fact in Colorado you can't even display a sign stating that you reserve the right to refuse anyone. So no, "you can refuse anyone you want".
Homosexuality isn't limited to humans. Homosexual, transgender and non-procreative behavior has been observed throughout nature. You're trying to conflate sex with reproduction and they're not always inclusive. Parthenogenesis and asexual reproduction disprove your contention that only a male & female can procreate naturally.
"Knowledge is good." - Emil Faber
I think his "legitimate
I think his "legitimate business reason" was none other than this: that putting love and care and pride and artistry into making a beautiful cake to celebrate a same-sex wedding amounts to making a statement that a same-sex wedding is something to be celebrated, whereas the man who was asked to make the cake apparently believes that a same-sex wedding is something to be lamented, not celebrated.
The customers came offering him mere money, for him to make a statement with which he would have been in profound disagreement. The money might have been tempting, because it was obviously not a cheap cake that they were asking for, but, in the end, he resisted the temptation. He wasn't willing to prostitute his art like that. Why should anybody take issue with that? It must have taken considerable courage for him to stand up for what he believed was right.
People might want to take issue with his refusal to prostitute his art to social movement that he opposed, because they disagree with his opinion about same-sex marriage. But that is rather short-sighted, because freedoms of belief and expression benefit us all, and nobody is safe in a society that martyrs any one person for exercising such basic freedoms. Moreover, this explanation hardly accounts for the degree of venom exhibited towards this willing martyr to the power of the pink dollar as a market force. There must be another reason, surely.
Is it that nowadays people who are homo-enthusiastic expect, as of right, that people who are homo-sceptic will subject themselves to the humiliation of pretending in public that they are homo-enthusiasts? I cannot help thinking that that is the agenda here, and it strikes me as a rather vindictive agenda - not to say unconstitutional in US terms, contrary to the European Convention on Human Rights in European terms, and contrary to the relevant UN Declaration on Human Rights more-or-less everywhere else as well as in Europe and the USA.
If he loses some business for taking this stand for freedom of expression, I doubt he will care much. He would probably just remind himself of the saying, "What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet lose his own soul?" This way, even if he goes bankrupt, he can look his children and grandchildren in the eye, without being ashamed for living a lie when the moment of decision came, by succumbing to pressure and the offer of money, to act as though he believed that a same-sex wedding was an event to celebrate, when he believes that it is an event to lament.
The way to convince people like this that same-sex marriage SHOULD be celebrated, not lamented, is by arguing with them respectfully, not by bullying them, or calling them names. But that requires a willingness to pay as much attention to their arguments as to why it is to be lamented rather than celebrated as one expects them to pay attention to one's own contrary arguments as to why it is to be celebrated rather than respected.
your taking the
your taking the reproductivity factor too far. all i was saying was that by evolutionary standards that is how it came to be.
I gave you two examples that
I gave you two examples that prove your evolution argument wrong. Even with humans, a penis & vagina might be customary but aren't mandatory.
But more importantly, I notice you don't attempt to address the real topic being discussed.
"Knowledge is good." - Emil Faber
it appears if they are not
it appears if they are not mandatory we will be no more one day. you can justify anything you want.
Gay sex won't lead to the
Gay sex won't lead to the extinction of the human race. Neither will same sex marriage since reproduction & marriage are not dependent on each other (you can easily have one without the other).
"Knowledge is good." - Emil Faber
But reproduction has nothing
But reproduction has nothing to do with legal marriage. We allow people to marry who can't, or don't want to, have children all the time. Even a couple with a penis and a vagina between the two of them who are too old to reproduce or who have lost the ability to reproduce due to injury or illness have the right to marry. Also, people reproduce all the time without being married both intentionally and accidentally. So, what does your argument about reproduction have to do with our debate about marriage?
What "natural laws" are you talking about? There are hundreds of species where both homosexual acts and even long term homosexual relationships have been recorded. How can you say it's unnatural when homosexuality is common in so many species? One thing that's never been found in any species aside from humans is homophobia... So, tell me again what's unnatural?
first of all no homophobia.
first of all no homophobia. just because i disagree im not afraid of it. whats next if i dont want to try gay sex im a homophobe. you can live how you want. and yes animals do do that your right. im merely stating that if your athiest or believe in God that natural laws created by God or through nature itself are violated through homosexuality. It sounds to me that what your saying is if animals and humans have sex with the same gender it must be ok and we are all conforming to that.
You seem to have an odd
You seem to have an odd interpretation of the term "natural law". "Natural law" is a law that can not be violated. Gravity is a natural law. The limitation of the speed of light, as far as we know, is an unbreakable natural law. The laws of thermodynamics are laws, though commonly misunderstood. There is no law about who you should have sex with. If heterosexuality was a law then it couldn't be broken and yet we know that it's broken in hundreds of species. You don't need to create a legal law to support a natural law. You don't see Alabama passing a "don't break gravity" law.
Now, if you're suggesting that gays should be discriminated against because they can't reproduce then please explain why rules should apply differently to gays than to heterosexual people who can't reproduce.
Nobody is suggesting that everybody "conform" to homosexuality. That would be stupid because people are either born homosexual or heterosexual, or somewhere along that spectrum. That would be like someone suggesting I conform to being black.
As I understand it, this guy
As I understand it, this guy would have happily served somebody gay who wanted a wedding cake for a wedding at which the bride and groom were of opposite genders, and would have refused an order placed by a heterosexual person, for a wedding cake for a wedding at which the bride and groom were of the same gender. It is unlawful in some jurisdictions to discriminate against an individual on the grounds of of his or her sexual orientation, perhaps rightly so, if the modern shorthand "sexual orientation" carries the meaning often alleged. On the other hand, I know of no legislature that has ever made it an offence for a maker of cakes to celebrate events, to discriminate for or against the types of event that his cakes would be celebrating. The plaintiffs need to argue indirect discrimination, at best.
Indirect discrimination?
Indirect discrimination? He's refusing to serve gay customers. That's pretty direct. Don't pretend that saying "you can buy this cake as long as you're buying it for somebody else" is indirect discrimination.
He's not "refusing to serve
He's not "refusing to serve gay customers". He's merely refusing to supply a wedding cake for a same-sex wedding.
How is refusing to supply a
How is refusing to supply a wedding cake not a refusal of service?
The owner is clearly denying the gay couple the full services and goods of his business and he is making that decision based on sexual orientation.
"Knowledge is good." - Emil Faber
The decision not to bake the
The decision not to bake the cake the would-be customers want, isn't based at all upon the sexual orientation of the customers. It is based upon the sexual orientation of the cake. :-)
When scientists find the
When scientists find the "gay" gene and it is proven a person is born this way it might logically follow that sexual preference would be a similar consideration as that of sex or skin color. Until then, the store owner was likely taking God's definition ("...an abomination") when making his decision. And there are plenty of like-minded Christians who take God's word seriously and do not consider "political correctness" to carry equal weight in rendering this decision. And for those of you with the word "hater" on your lips...God had words for that to, "...love the sinner...hate the sin.". None of this includes condoning and/abetting someone's sin. God Bless!
There cannot be a "gay" gene.
There cannot be a "gay" gene. If there were, there would not be real life examples of identical twins, where one twin practised homosexuality, and the other didn't.
I don't think you really
I don't think you really understand how genes work...
It's exceedingly unlikely
It's exceedingly unlikely that scientists will find a "gay gene". They haven't found a "brown skin gene" or a "blonde gene" and it's possible they never will but you don't hear people questioning whether you're born black or blonde. Genetics is far more complex than that.
There likely isn't a "gay gene". It's far more likely that a sequence of multiple genes placed in different ways put everyone along a spectrum of human sexuality, just like a sequence of genes place people along a spectrum of skin or hair color. There aren't just 2 colors of skin, or 2 colors of hair any more than there are just 2 distinct sexual orientations.
As I said earlier, there
As I said earlier, there cannot be a "gay" gene. If there were, there would not be real life examples of identical twins, where one twin practised homosexuality, and the other didn't.
Clearly you are correct and
Clearly you are correct and knowing myself such a couple where one identical son was raised (from birth) by the mother and the other was raised by the father, this gives credence to the view that "nuture" wins out over "nature" in this instance.
By "couple", I take it that
By "couple", I take it that you mean a PAIR (of twins).
As a matter of interest, which parent brought up which twin?
The gay male identical twin
The gay male identical twin was brought up by the mother, the hetereosexual twin by his father. There is additional research that supports a statistically significant "r" coefficient relative to a "domineering mother" figure present in the lives of gay men.
I wouldn't wish to be accused
I wouldn't wish to be accused of attempting to rely too heavily on anecdotal evidence, but what you wrote since my last visit (above - for which I thank you) reminds me of the biographical dramatised documentary I watched last night, of the tragic figure, the late British camp comic actor and game-show panellist Kenneth Williams, who appeared in several of the Carry On movies. Especially the portrayal of his mother, who bought him girls clothes when he was at primary school, and his long-suffering father, who seemed powerless in the marriage that produced Kenneth.
I had considered finding somewhere to complain about the excessive emphasis placed in that documentary on William's alleged torment concerning his sexuality.
Scientists can discover a gay
Scientists can discover a gay gene all they want. They can announce the discovery in all the world's media. It can be accepted by all reasonable people all over the world. People like this cake shop owner, however, will never change their opinion or their homophobia because in their world, the bible trumps everything else.
How did the bible get into
How did the bible get into this discussion???????
The bible got into the
The bible got into the discussion when the baker decided that his interpretation of the bible trumped what is right, moral and good business.
The bible isn't mentioned.
The bible isn't mentioned.
Ahh, so you're suggesting
Ahh, so you're suggesting he's a bigot just because it's fun to be a bigot? Not because his religion tells him so? You think this baker is the one bigot who hates gays just because, and not because his religion tells him to? Funny. You don't get out much do you?
I'm not "suggesting" that the
I'm not "suggesting" that the baker is a "bigot", or that he "hates gays", still less speculating as to the reasons for this, if it is true. I'm simply pointing out that the bible isn't mentioned in the news story we're all commenting on, limiting the extent to which it would be appropriate to mention the bible in the comments on the story.
There's a picture at the beginning of the article, of a cake, decorated with two male-dressed figurines linking arms. The only discrimination involved lies in the business owners decision that he does not want to make cakes like that, for anybody, gay or straight. Since slavery has been abolished, he has the right not to accept commissions he doesn't want to accept. What more is there to say?
It's fascinating how you
It's fascinating how you people associate calling out hateful bigots with slavery. It's as though slavery was actually just telling your slaves "you can't discriminate against other people" as opposed to actually owning other human beings. You have an amazingly warped sense of scale.
To whom are you referring as
To whom are you referring as "you people"?
SO true. Sad, but true. Some
SO true.
Sad, but true. Some people cannot accept truth for what it is, when that truth contradicts their perceptions. And in those rare ocassions when they can do so, it is something pretty dramatic and usually life-threatening.
The insanity principle is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results. The far right, the far left, vegans, creationists and other extremists believe in the insanity principle, religiously.
Why would it be legal to deny
Why would it be legal to deny service to homosexuals? It's not legal to deny service for the color of your skin or what genitals you have. If your religion doesn't allow you to service your customers (whether you be a baker or a pharmacist or any other job) then you need to find a different job.
Actually, in a growing number
Actually, in a growing number of states, it already is illegal, but not often enforced, or it is under-enforced.
When people like that finally grow up, things will change and these sorts of laws will become obsolete and no longer necessary, but I don't see it happening any time soon; not until every state has these sorts of laws and protections and they are enforced.
Still, the bakery operators can decide to behave like a horse's ass and the public can decide to vote with their wallets by going to other bakeries; I am sure that the other bakeries in that town will welcome the additional business.
In the mean time, that particular bakery will learn the lessons of bad policy makes for a bad business plan.
The insanity principle is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results. The far right, the far left, vegans, creationists and other extremists believe in the insanity principle, religiously.
I don't think the cake shop
I don't think the cake shop proprietor will care about criticism, or even about losing business.
It sounds to me as though he doesn't approve of this new-fangled thing called "same sex marriage", and acts accordingly. There's nothing complicated or hard to follow about that! I don't suppose that even torturing him for his beliefs, in order to try to make make him change his convictions, is likely to change his convictions, though I dare say there are even some here who'd like to give this tactic a try, just in case it works, the end justifying the means.
Some people don't feel tolerant about anybody disapproving of same-sex "marriage", and they have a perfect right to moan about this phenomenon they don't wish to tolerate, and some of them are indeed moaning about already, by all accounts. I defend their right to moan.
Is there anything left to discuss? I don't think so.
Nobody is proposing torture.
Nobody is proposing torture. In fact, I doubt anybody has even considered torture except you. I don't think most of us even care whether he disapproves of same sex marriage any more than we care if he disapproves of interracial or interreligious marriage. He can disapprove of whatever he wants but he can't discriminate. Maybe he's a racist and hates black people, but he can't refuse to serve blacks. Maybe he hates Muslims, or Baptists, or Catholics but he can't refuse to serve them.
Your repeated rants about "tolerance" are kind of funny. You suggest that people on the left (never those on the right) should always accept with a smile the intolerance of bigots. If people want to discriminate against gays, that's their right! If people want to spread lies about how the gays are after your kids, that's their right! If people want to limit the constitutional rights of of gay people, that's their right and questioning them and telling them that they can't discriminate and they can't restrict constitutional rights to minorities is the real intolerance according to you.
Oddly, on the other side of the equation, you've suggested that to not allow religious people to write their religious rules into law is the worst kind of oppression. To stop spending taxpayer money for religious events and religious proselytizing is denying people's religious freedom. Do disallow loosely religious organizations from discriminating against their non-religious employees is tyranny... well, unless that religious organization is Muslim of course. Those employees can just find another job right? As long as they're not pharmacists who are denying a prescription because their religion forbids it. Then it would be tyranny to suggest they find a different line of work.
Nobody is suggesting that people aren't allowed to have whatever crazy religious beliefs they want or that they aren't allowed to hate whoever their god told them to hate. All we've suggested is that you can't legislate or discriminate based on your religious beliefs.
@State of reason Pretty well
@State of reason
Pretty well nothing you express disagreement with in the posting of yours to which I am replying, that you imply that I have said, is actually anything that I have ever actually said.