- Home
- Politics
- Entertainment
- Sports
- Health
- Religion
- Society
- Tech
- Money
- People
- Science
- Galleries
Society
Rapist Demands Visitation Rights to the Child He Fathered
An unidentified man, who plead guilty to statutory rape of a 14-year-old girl in 2009 and got her pregnant, is now filing for visitation rights to see the toddler produced by the rape.
The man was sentenced to 16 years probation in 2011, reports the Daily Mail. Part of the probation required that he pay child support, however, that also entitles him to seek visitation rights.
The man met the 14-year-old girl at church and, later, had sex with her and got the teen pregnant. However, she was too young to legally consent to sex, reports Fox 25.
The victim’s mom told Fox 25: "She decided to keep her baby. And now she has to hand her baby over for a visit with her rapist?"
The teen's attorney Wendy Murphy told the NY Daily News that she asked the court to require the rapist pay restitution instead of child support, which would deny him access to the toddler.
Murphy also asked that the man be banned from seeing the child and mother: "This family has been very clear from the beginning that they want nothing to do with this guy. What legal system requires a toddler to have a relationship with the man who raped her mother?"
Galleries
Sign up for the OV Daily Newsletter
Comments
Speaking of bitter idiots,
Speaking of bitter idiots, care to defend the lie you were just caught in? You now have provided a whole single case unlike you claim of already having provided many. So, we have one case and in the first conviction she got a whole 6 months in jail, 3 years of sex offender treatment and was not required to register as a sex offender. And that is a case you hold up as an example? It wasn't until she kept violating the law and probation by keeping up with her relations repeatedly that she was convicted again and again and jailed.
So why are you so bitter you also keep defending having male victims of rape pay child support but have a standard where female victims are not required to give the rapist any contact with the child? I have agreed with the last but stated NEITHER gender should have contact with a child if they are a sex offender and the victim should not be held responsible for being raped or molested. So how is my demanding equal treatment making me bitter, misogynistic and an idiot? I have also provided you with case law showing that males are still required to support a child when they are drugged and raped while passed out which you defended as acceptable but would you force a woman who was raped like that to bear the child or allow her an abortion?
Here, let me try yet again to help you and show where you are flat wrong. And that you actually defend tossing a rape victim in jail unless they pay the person that raped them is interesting as a position when you also have bragged about being someone in a position of power who helped create these laws. I truly do hope you never have a male child who has to go through the things you defend right now and that your children are not screwed up for life with the morals and values you are supporting.
Oh well, you may be totally hopeless in your bias and hate for boys who are drugged and raped, but others can at least be educated and see how someone who helps create this system thinks with your comments. Plenty of info right below that I am sure you will refuse to look at and then come back to just call me names while you avoid the facts and lie again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Kay_Letourneau
http://www.sagepub.com/press/2012/may/SAGE_FemaleSexOffendersProtectedCriminalJusticeSystem.sp
http://articles.kspr.com/2012-10-05/ozarks-counties_34285158
http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/numberthirtysix.htm
Quentin, I've been reading
Quentin,
I've been reading through some of the sites you linked. I must say, I've been clueless about quite a bit of this so thank you for sharing.
In particular, I found the following quite puzzling:
"California has also rejected as a defense to child support the fact that the father was a victim of statutory rape. Reasoning that the father and mother had consensual sex, the court saw no reason to excuse the father from the consequences of his actions. Statutory rape cannot be used as a financial shield. San Luis Obispo County v. Nathaniel J., ___ Cal. App. 4th ___, 57 Cal. Rptr. 2d 843 (1996)."
How can it be consensual when discussing the male victim paying child support and rape when sending the woman to jail?
"A 10-year study by the U.S. Department of Justice shows female sex offenders tend to get lighter sentences. Although the same percentage of offenders for both sexes tend to do jail time, women typically do less. Men's sentences are between 6 percent and 31 percent longer than women's for the same or similar crime."
If accurate, I can't see any rationale justification for that to continue.
http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/numberthirtysix.htm
http://articles.kspr.com/2012-10-05/alison-peck_34285158
As with all rape cases the
As with all rape cases the difficulty is proving rape as defined by the law. The latest trend by conservative males is to redefine rape by adding the wording "forcible rape", which would virtually eliminate the possibility of a man being raped except anally. Convicted sex offenders of either gender should be equally punished, but when any victim willing makes themselves intoxicated with alcohol or drugs their case for rape is suspect. Only when the victim can prove they were secretly slipped drugs is this taint removed from a rape case. This is often impossible to prove, especially when there are witnesses testifying the alleged victim had been buying or/and willingly drinking alcohol within hours before the alleged rape. Two people drinking to excess or getting high rarely know or agree on the actual details of what took place while they were impaired. So a pregnancy resulting from sex leaves the court only to determine the paternity, custody and child-support requirements. It is fair that the female who bears the sole risks during a pregnancy should be the one to decide to terminate the pregnancy or not. If her decision is to complete the pregnancy & retain custody, it is the needs of the child, not the Mother, that determines child support. The male parent in a non-rape case can always file for custody & child-support from the female parent. The law has determined that regardless of how a child was brought into this world, once born both parents are obligated to support it's welfare or jointly relinquish custody to the State. Whatever flaws might exist in our legal system, it is long past time that teenagers were fully educated in these laws. Any teenage boy or girl can find themselves held legally responsible for their sexuality. Therefore I believe the public schools should include a mandatory course in human sexuality & sexual responsibility to all students beginning at age 12. If a person should be aware of their bodily changes at puberty they should also be made aware of the laws that could now effect their lives. This may not prevent unprotected sex, but it may help victims like this young woman in this article become more confident about her rights. Young victims of either gender may feel more comfortable reporting anyone trying to impose their sexual agenda upon them.
"It is fair that the female
"It is fair that the female who bears the sole risks during a pregnancy should be the one to decide to terminate the pregnancy or not."
To be fair, the nipper bears quite a few risks too.
Please grow up and stop your
Please grow up and stop your hatred toward women. You sound a like a fat angry man who can't get laid without paying for it. Let me guess - either all your relationships have gone bad or you have been on the losing end of one or more divorces. Did I call it?
You need to find a better way to relieve this absurd mental tension. You need to find a better outlet that spewing hatred toward women on the internet. Your extreme views are actually kind of scary. You need to see somebody.
I pity someone so steeped in lies and hate. It is sad to see. If you have health insurance, you should look into your coverage for professional therapy. You might be too far gone for any significant help. However, talking to someone who can go point by point with you, showing you how your paranoid delusions do not actually reflect reality might be truly helpful.
Obviously, no one arguing with you on the internet is going to make any progress. Really... get some help!
Rant away because I am done responding to crazy people for today.
CRW, again you dodge. Show me
CRW, again you dodge. Show me where a woman who molested a boy did jail time after she became pregnant like I said. You are refusing to do so while claiming females are punished just as harshly. You also try to insult me claiming I have a hate based on gender yet you flat refuse to condemn forcing boys who are raped to pay 20 years of child support to their rapists.
Call me a misogonist all you like and try to dodge but the facts remain and you refuse to even attempt to counter them. Instead you would call me names for advocating equal treatment while you would then happily turn on a 12 year old boy who was drugged amd molested to yell at him to man up and pay child support to your wife who raped him. I suggest you look at the real world and the way it takes a LOT more to even convict a female molester, much less how they rarely face real jail time compared to a male of equal crimes.
As a perfect example there were two cases in nothern Ohio a few years back going on at the exact same time. Both had teachers the same age having sex with students in the same county witht the same prosecutor. The male was denied bond and the prosecutor reccomended the female teacher get a lesser charge and low bond. Both were cases with a teen who was consensual in the relationship amd the onoy real difference being the male teacher slept with a 15 year old while the female teacher was sleeping with a 14 year old. He also had the full charges pressed amd received a long prison sentence while the female teacher got probation.
So as I said, female predators that you support getting paid by their victims also face very little risk of serious punishment even if their victim is believed and she is charged compared to a male and almost zero chance of jail he she gets pregnant while raping him. That you ignore this and even call my pointing it out as misogynist is a pathetic dodge and boads very ill for any sons you may have as to how you will punish them if they are a victm.
Here, I will even help you
Here, I will even help you with some of the research CRW. Read up on the laws, facts and rest instead of your hate for males ruling your beliefs on this topic.
http://www.fact.on.ca/news/news0208/lt020816.htm
As for punishing offenders, 2 seconds on google shows females are less likely to be jailed at all and serve much less time than males for the same crimes. You will also see from the above article amd a search that they are much less likely to be reported, victims are much less likely to be believed and still less likely to be prosecuted even when studies show they are up to 25% or the molesters out there. But with attitudes like you have, no wonder since you demonstrate more sympathy for a female predator than their male victims and that is all too common anymore in our society.
Try searching the following in google and educate yourself better. "female pediphiles average sentence compared to males"
Finally try this link since it sums up several links amd saves me putting them each in front of your misandrist nose. It shows how not a single case where a woman was the predator and became pregnant has allowed him out of his responsibilities to financially help raise the child yet you bragged about setting up the support system. So you brag about helping create such a hateful system against male victims of sexual assault but then brag about how easy it is also to take away the rights of a father.
http://human-stupidity.com/stupid-dogma/mens-rights-feminism/men-pay-child-support-even-if-fraud-deceit-lie-rape
I have only so much time in
I have only so much time in my day to respond to idiots. You have exceeded your quota for my attention. I have cited several cases where adult women took advantage of younger boys and went to jail.
Look at Mary Kay Letourneau/Fualaau as an example if you still need one of a woman who became pregnant by her victim and went to jail.
What is your point? Do you think we should do away with all child support laws because of some minor examples of abuse?
Get over it! Really... in most cases the man deserves to pay support... the end. Move on! If you have sexual relations with a woman and a child is the result, both parties are responsible for support and care of the child. For the non-custodial parent, this means child support. A significant number of people paying support are women. However, it is usually the woman who ends up the custodial parent.
You are a sick and bitter man. I would hate myself and the world too if I carried such a skewed and terrible view of the world around me. Everything must seem so "unfair" to loonies like you.
Just out of curiousity, where
Just out of curiousity, where was this mothers concern when she allowed her 14 year old child to hang around a 20 year old boyfriend of a friend? I am so sick of everyone painting these little girls up as "they didn't know any better" believe me SHE KNEW. Rape is non consensual, statutory rape usually is & should not even have the term rape in the title. Kids are learning sexual acts younger & younger. Most girls now want to doll up like a 2 bit hooker, trade boyfriends out every week & they aren't shy to call someone sexy yet some adults are still dumb enough to believe "he made me do it" master manipulators. The mother wants to raise the child & receive the boy's money but she wants to ensure has no rights?? What kind of church do you attend ma'am? I bet the reason the little angel is so depressed is because she still has feelings for him but cannot show it because of the good mother. I am so glad I am not a man, I would have to be gay because the dirty crap females pull ain't worth their "stuff" no matter how good! This piece of trash is willing to accept a check but unwilling to allow rights to a man fighting to see his child. They want to "cut the cord" but keep the money, how strange.
This family has done enough damage to this boy, he is a sex offender now, my point goes back to my beginning question.... where was Mommy & all her concerns when this sweet darling was off scrumping some boy?
Your spin on the limited
Your spin on the limited facts reported is just as consistent with those limited facts as anybody's, and just as unjustified. But at least you're not copying mindlessly the spin put on it by the lawyer who is quoted, calling the guy a "rapist", and adding some extra emotion on top.
My point is that it's simply impossible to work out what situation we are commenting on. Your spin could be right. The spin most people have on this story could be right. Nobody knows.
Yet many people are making really impassioned comments, as though they did know details that they obviously don't. Why? Because this is the sort of story that triggers people with emotional baggage, who then proceed to make wild guesses galore about the details that aren't being reported, and add spin and emotional language that fits their own agendas.
Whatever one thinks of the
Whatever one thinks of the practice in some countries of criminalising, prosecuting and convicting as "statutory rape", consensual sex between teenagers under a certain age, the most important question, two years or so later, is whether it will likely enrich or mar the child's life, to be deprived of a relationship with his or her dad, paternal grandparents, etc. There simply isn't enough information in the report on which to base a guess as to the best answer to that question.
I therefore feel that some of the outbursts here result from adults with disturbing emotional baggage themselves, feeling "triggered" by the few (and somewhat sensational) words used in the report, rather than grown-up, joined-up thinking about the true, long-term interests of the different members of this troubled family.
Look at this story and watch
Look at this story and watch the video:
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/-Boston-rapist-fights-for-visitation-rights-with-woman-he-attacked-171773261.html
There is plenty to evidence to show this man raped this girl while she was in eighth grade.... she was in junior high school. He was was dating the older sister of the mother's friend, manipulated her into a sexual relationship, and threatened her if she came forward.
If you can watch the video and you still believe that contact with the father would be good for anyone, you are a crueler man than I thought.
Here we go again! The old
Here we go again! The old "straw man" argument. I didn't say that I thought that contact with the father would be good. I said that there wasn't enough information in the story for anybody to make a guess whether it would be good or not. It's a decision that a court needs to take, based upon a knowledge of all the facts, in the best interests of the child. That's not "cruel", that's kind and sensible.
If the spin of the sensational reports you've been reading are closer to the truth than are the other possibilities consistent with the limited facts reported, the chances are that the court will make no order for contact between father and daughter.
What made you think I was cruel in the first place?
You have been advocating for
You have been advocating for contact without knowing all the facts. Now you are softening your stance.
Sometimes it is best if a child never knows his/her father.
I was wrong to add my own
I was wrong to add my own spin in my first posting like that. You are right that I have "softened" my "stance".
It is usually best for children to be brought up by their parents - both of them. The term "statutory rape" means something different from "rape" as most people here seem to understand the word "rape". It would be wrong to deprive the child of a father, merely because of statutory rape. But, as you say, sometimes it is best if a child never knows his/her father. Perhaps there are reasons we don't know about why this would be best in this case. That's for the family court to decide. They're the best court to decide that sort of thing.
CRW, as you say. Any MALE who
CRW, as you say. Any MALE who takes advantage should be held responsible. Meanwhile the local news by me only had one station report on the late news about a local teacher. She held a bunch of parties giving boys booze, drugs and screwed them with boys as young as 13. She got a whole 3 years probation for it. So claiming they punish women moleters like males is a joke. Rarely do they get jail time and I challenge you to find one who got knocked up by the male she raped who spent more than 6 months in jail.
The fact is, this case is even less egregious than how male victims are treated and he is likely to loose at least. Unlike males who are then punished by having to pay 30% of their income to their rapist for 20 years. If we did that to women you would be outraged but you have no problems with males being treated like that. So why do you hate males so much?
Stop with the BS. I have
Stop with the BS.
I have already pointed out many stories of female teachers going to jail for what you have just described. Move on you mysoginist.
Dude...misogynists hate
Dude...misogynists hate women. Misanthropes hate men. Please make a note of it to avoid such misuse in future. Thank you.
Not quite. Misogynists hate
Not quite. Misogynists hate women. Misandrists hate men (that is, male humans). Misanthropes hate both.
I meant misogynist....
I meant misogynist.... quentin hates or at least resents "modern female privilege" as he sees it.
This case has nothing to do
This case has nothing to do with teenagers. The above article is incomplete. See: http://www.examiner.com/article/boston-rapist-files-for-visitation-rights-to-victim-s-toddler
Three yrs ago, A twenty year old "friend of the family" raped a 14 yr old victim and was allowed to plea bargained his way to a statutory rape charge. The judge's primary concern was coercing this little girl into having her rapist's baby by assuring her this man would have to pay child support. This neocon family court judge apparently did not inform the victim or her family that in MA a rapist can file for visitation & even joint custody if he is out of prison. If this man had been convicted under the proper charges & been ordered to pay restitution (not child support) this issue would never have arisen. This girl is now only 17 and still being harassed by her rapist. This judge's quote about "the Mother chose to keep the baby" is just garbage. This 14 yr old rape victim was prevented by her parents from getting proper medical care. She's been victimized repeatedly. Her parents exposed her to this rapist then refused her an abortion with the consent of a judge who, through his own disregard for the welfare of this 14 yr old child, may have put her in a position to legally be harassed for 15 more years by her rapist. I hope this will be a lesson to extremists who believe an unborn child has more right to life than a teenage girl.
I couldn't see anything in
I couldn't see anything in the Examiner article that shed any new light on the story, or supported, in any way, the spin you have put onto the story, which comes across as pregnant with agenda other than what's best for the child.
The story has nothing in it about anybody coercing a little girl into having a baby (which is biologically impossible anyway), about the judge's political views, what the "proper charges" were, about any harassment, about abortion, or about anybody's repeated victimisation. I think you just make up whatever you think will help you to distort a story about one topic, into a story about a different topic that you would prefer to talk about. You should have more respect than that.
There are at least 2 dozen
There are at least 2 dozen articles available on this pending case. Do the research & make your own conclusions. The convicted rapist is Jamie Melendez. His public defender is Larry Tipton. The judge responsible for sending this to the family court of Boston is Judge Thomas McGuire. Wendy Murphy is representing the victim & her child.
"Once I learned that the judge ordered a rapist to go off to Family Court and pay child support, which is pretty outrageous - in a sense it decriminalizes the behavior, or frames it other than a serious crime - I got on board and filed a motion to reverse the judge's order," said Wendy Murphy, a criminal attorney and academic at the New England School of Law. Murphy said. "She doesn't want a 16 year relationship with him. He can request visitation, he can have potential involvement in the child's education, have access to the child, control where (the victim) lives. We don't want this in Family Court."
Murphy is also asking the Massachusetts Supreme Court to rule on whether criminal courts can send rapists to Family Court at all in Massachusetts.
Several articles discuss the fact that the victim's parents made her medical decisions and that the primary concern of this Judge was securing child-support for the unborn rather than justice for a rape victim. Hopefully this case will be reviewed by the State Supreme Court and the laws in MA will be changed. And, yes, I hope this will make every parent think twice about allowing a minor child to through the trauma of pregnancy & child birth.
"I hope this will make every
"I hope this will make every parent think twice about allowing a minor child to through the trauma of pregnancy & child birth."
In what sense can the grandparents be said to have "allowed" the mother's pregnancy and the birth of the grandchild?
CRW, you can claim all you
CRW, you can claim all you like but raising your sons to respect women while toss them under the buss is stupid. I raised ALL my children to respect EVERYONE. My daughter knows she is not to manipulate males and my son knows he is to show equal respect to females. But you have dismissed that women can rape and molest yet get PAID by the victim for doing so. If you call that being a loving father, then I hope your own sons are not molested and then screwed by the system since you would toss the poor fuckers in the street and disown them as rapists or something.
But hey, as long as you can control your daughter's sexuality and then toss your sons under the bus, who cares about facts, the laws or the rest. After all, you are an "expert" who helped create the child support system that treats boys like that and are proud of it. That there is one of the scariest parts of all your comments with your hate for your own sons and all other males.
Here is a CBS story on
Here is a CBS story on teachers sentenced to PRISON for having sex with students:
http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10004533.html?tag=page
Please move on.
Again, your distorted view of reality is based on anecdotes and not what in general happens. Disagreeing with you is not "hating all males." Your leap of logic is without any grounding in facts on what in general happens.
Any male who takes advantage of a women or doesn't pay for children he fathers deserves what happnes. Your off the wall cases about a woman raping a boy and the suing for support ignores what happens in the overwhelming majority of cases.
Going back to this case, a 20 year old chick hawk had sex with a 14 year old and is using visitation to intimidate the mother. Pretty simple and straightforward case. I have seen many men use the same tactic to "scare" the mother out of child support.
As a responsible father whose life revolves around supporting his family, I find dishonest and irresponsible PARENTs reprehensible - whether male or female. Anyone who skips out on being a mother or a father deserves a support order.
Pedophiles are adults who
Pedophiles are adults who prey on child-victims. Most pedophiles talk their victims into performing sex acts, they don't force themselves on their victims. A 20 year old man who finds a 14 year old victim doesn't deserve to be treated like the 18 year old secret lover of a 16 yr old. This 20 year old man may have been convicted under statutory rape but it was no different than what hundreds of Catholic Priests have done to their own teenaged victims. Anyone who thinks 14 year olds are ready to make consensual decisions about sex, parenthood, or any other adult decisions seriously needs to spend one day talking to 14 yr olds. For those who have forgotten, that's 8th-9th graders. In 3rd world nations some 14 yr olds may be the sole support of large families, but In the USA a 14 yr old kid can't even work in a fast-food restaurant. They are barely considered old enough to babysit, let alone be forced to have their rapist's baby. I blame this Girl's parents for not getting her preventive pregnancy treatment immediately. They conspired with her rapist to ruin her childhood and probably her life.
To any man who believes he was raped & forced to impregnate a woman, I can only ask why they didn't report their assault on the record at the time or anytime within the 9 months prior to being served notice of child-support? A police report, even one that failed to result in a trial, and a civil suit against paying any money to a rapist would have then been determined by a jury of your peers. Don't blame the law because you are unwilling to act.
Gem, I have posted a link to
Gem, I have posted a link to several cases and even when it is reported and she is even convicted, by law he is still liable to pay child support. That is if he is even beloived. So in this area it actually IS the law and not failing to act. I can post more information if you need.
Here is a bit of information for you and so you understand, by law rape of men was not even possible until just this year so even getting honest information is almost impossible.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/24/health/as-victims-men-struggle-for-rape-awareness.html?pagewanted=all
Here is an interestign article on the issue..
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2009/12/04/male-rape-victims-and-the-penetration-problem/
And finally here is a story from a victim which shows a major problem. She threatened to accuse him of rape if he made any move to stop her from raping him. Now if they both claim rape, who do you honestly think they will believe?
http://jameslandrith.com/content/view/3148/79/
With only approximately 54%
With only approximately 54% of male on female rapes reported and a 24% conviction rate on those cases that go to trial, I am hardly surprised that men are treated just as unfairly. The rape laws, especially the penalties are extremely inadequate. But if victims do not come forward and press charges the law is not likely to ever change. Society must be convinced a problem even exists before there will be any demand for new laws. Rape laws protecting women & children have evolved slowly these past 2 centuries and are still woefully inadequate. I expect rape laws for men will take equally as long.
Are you seriously telling us
Are you seriously telling us that, for every male rapist rightly convicted for his crime, three innocent men are put through the ordeal of being put on trial for rapes which they are not found to have committed after all? Which country is this shocking injustice happening in?
Most folks don't know the
Most folks don't know the statutory rape laws in their states. In my state, a 4-year age span is the determining factor. Thus a 14-male can hav sex with an 18-yo adult and there is no statutory rape. That begs the question that if he can consent to an 18-yo, then why not a 19-yo? … Or in this case, a 20-yo?
As for whether it was consensual, had it not been, the prosecutor would hav pursued forcible rape charges had it been otherwise.
By the way, point of order, sex with a 14-yo is NOT pedophilia, it is hebephila which is neither unnatural, abnormal, nor a mental disorder. Until recently, the age of consent was 13 in most parts of the world (including the U.S.) and it remains 14 in many places. Evolution has programmed humans to lust for pubescent youngsters--our ancestors did not get to live long enuff to have the luxury of delaying reproduction. For hundreds of thousands of years, sex followed closely behind puberty. Only recently has society chosen to fight nature by imposing the moratorium of adolescence sex and to declare as inappropriate and illegal a sexual interest teenagers.
Also, most biblical scholars agree that Mary was a young teen when she gave birth to Jesus. By today's laws, that would make God a sex offender and a pervert.
In the end, if she doesn't want the money, then she should offer him the chance to giv up his parental rights and any obligation for child support. Otherwise it is hypocritical to demand child support but refuse to visitation. If she doesn't want to see him, then arrangement can be made for a third-party transfer of the child for visitation.
I'm a freespeller.
Sorry, but this article left
Sorry, but this article left out the actual facts & legal issue involved here. A 20 yr old friend of the family raped a 14 yr old girl. No consent was given. The judge allowed this to be plea-bargained to statutory rape if the man agreed to pay child support for impregnating his victim. The Girl's parents, with the judges approval, refused to allow this pregnancy to be terminated. The judge's misapplication of the law has allowed this rapist to continue to legally victimize this girl. This little 14 yr old was victimized by everyone who should have been looking after HER interests. She was forced to have her rapist's child. Now she could be forced to allow visitation because the judge did not require restitution for a crime, but child-support. I hope all the zealots who believe the life of the unborn is more important than the life of a teenager will learn something from what this 14 yr old's parents did to her life.
@gem: From where did you get
@gem: From where did you get the facts you mention? Citations please. You can start with the name of the rapist since that should be a public record.
The Catholic Heretic
Do you have a 14 year old
Do you have a 14 year old daughter you actually care about? I have several daughters. 14 is TOO YOUNG for a mature sexual relationship. Pregnant at 14 usually means that girl's life is ruined...forever! No college, no good job, and most likely no high school diploma. A baby at 14 is an incredible tragedy for the young girl.
You might be right that what we have is a product of our times. However, in OUR time, pregnancy is best avoided until after a girl has completed her education and started her career.
Who was this irresponsible idiot to have sex with a 14 year girl and not at least use a condom? What a selfish self-centered chicken hawk.
So your 14-yo daughter goes
So your 14-yo daughter goes out and has sex with ... say ... a 14-yo boy ... It's his fault? Your daughter had no choice? She didn't wiggle her tail and bat her eyes? This isn't about whether it's a good idea for 14-yo kids to be having sex ... it's not ... but that's not going to stop them.
Condoms are not an effectiv measure of birth control. That said ... let's flip it about ... Who was that irresponsible idiot to hav sex and not be on the Pill or hav an IUD? What a self-centered little wench. You see, that works both ways. And yes, young girls hav access to birth control without needing parental consent.
Now your daughter is pregnant ... What's the next best thing? Let's see, in your world that would be to lock up the father. Hmmmm ... Can a father get a job and earn money to support a child in prison? NO! ... OK, so that's a stupid solution yet one that many jump to.
Should the father hav visitation? You bet he should. That child deserves the love and attention of its father as well as its mother. You see, you hurt the father less than you hurt the child when you cut him out of the child's life yet that is what many do.
If one of your daughters goes out and gets herself pregnant, don't hoist your failure as a parent on the father of child by going after him.
I'm a freespeller.
I have four daughters 18 and
I have four daughters 18 and older, and none have been pregant. One is engaged, and the others date as they choose. My 14 year old at home is just starting to date in a highly monitored and safe way. As she demonstrates responsible choices she gets more freedom and privileges. My failure as a parent? Huh?
Condoms are not effective? What the hell are you talking about? A condom properly worn and put on before any penetration occurs is nearly 100% effective. Even leaving in all the other misbehaviors, condoms are 98% effective in preventing pregnancy. Those are pretty good odds.
You need to do more research on the SOB that got this girl pregnant. He manipulated and raped this girl. He should have gone to prison.
A condom´s failure rate is
A condom´s failure rate is about the same of withdrawal ... so in essence, it´s no better than pulling out.
Next, I´m going to turn this about on you again ... I´v seen lots of 14-yo year girls shake their ass at a guy to get what they want. You know, it´s been in my lifetime that a 20-yo was consider´d a minor as well. Well, the laws changed to make them adults but it didn´t change nature.
Women are the gatekeepers to sex. Absence forcible rape ... of which there is no evidence here ... then all she had to do was so no. You say that he ¨manipulated¨ her. Absence any proof of such, that is merely conjecture and wishful thinking on your part. I can just as easily say that she manipulated him. I think that men are much more suspectible to the wiles of females than the other way around. From the looks of the article, she has a wiley, manipulativ mother ... like mother, like daughter. She wagg´d her little ass and he follow´d her like a dog in heat.
Sending him to prison would serve what purpose? Three hots and cot, climate controll´d cell, free tv, and free medical care all at the taxpayer´s expense. At the same time, the child is not getting any financial support from the father ... possibly even getting money from the state ... again at the taxpayers expense.
Putting him in prison doesn´t hurt him but hurts the child and the taxpayer.
I'm a freespeller.
Of course he should be
Of course he should be allowed to participate as any father in raising his son or daughter.
Rape is rape, but "statutory rape" isn't rape, it's a legal fiction. If he'd been 14 himself, the crime probably wouldn't even have been charged and prosecuted.
The dad has been sentenced for his crime, which was having sexual intercourse with the consent of the mother when, in the eyes of the law, she was considered too young to give valid consent. His sentence does not - and should not - include forfeiting his parental rights, or rather being forced to shirk his responsibilities to his son or daughter. That sentence would fall even more heavily upon the child than on either parent.
It's the grandparents who need to grow up, and put their grandchild first. I'd have a lot less respect for this man if he DIDN'T want to have a relationship with his son or daughter. Now that really would be contemptible, his not wanting to shoulder his responsibilities. Some of the comments I have read here are simply absurd, and thoroughly cruel-hearted, above all to the child, who has done nothing wrong, to deserve being deprived of his or her father.
John... like many of your
John... like many of your posts here, you are going off incomplete information. Read the article:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/girl-rapist-seeks-paternal-visitation-rights-child-article-1.1169145?localLinksEnabled=false
Here is a critical quotation from the "mother:"
“He threatened me,” the girl said of the rape. “He told me that he could make my life upside down, and I wouldn’t have anybody and he would pin it all on me. So I was scared.”
Right... this is a loving father who truly cares about his git and the girl he manipulated into sex at a young age.
"you are going off incomplete
"you are going off incomplete information"
Yes, I was going off incomplete information. I apologise for that. Subsequently, I changed my opinion. I am now bemoaning the way in which almost everybody here is "going off incomplete information."
We are very unlikely to stumble across information that is as complete as the family court will take into account, when it has to make its own decision.
Oh ... and she would never
Oh ... and she would never lie about it now would she? Looks like she has an overbearing mother who is likely using her like a sock puppet.
I'm a freespeller.
Rape is rape. And consensual
Rape is rape. And consensual sex is rape if the woman says it is.
Men might as well just give up and admit that a man having sex with a woman is rape, regardless of the circumstances.
Innocence prevents the ability to consent? Then it is not possible to give up innocence, so we've all been raped. Except for men of course, since men aren't innocent.
What cynical nonsense. Maybe
What cynical nonsense. Maybe you're so ugly and unappealing that the only way you can have sex is to rape a woman- that's your problem.
Haven't you followed the news of female teachers having sex with male students? These teachers have been prosecuted and some have been given long prison sentences.
This idea that the "world is unfair to men" is bullshit. Grow up little man.
It's the grandparents who
It's the grandparents who need to "grow up". Do they really think they are showing love towards their grandchild, by trying to deprive him or her of a willing, loving father?
Read the story. This wasn't "rape" in the ordinary sense of the word. It was what is called "statutory rape", or (sometimes, in some jurisdictions) "technical rape".
The child comes first, not the family politics and the selfish wishes of the cantankerous grandparents.
Maybe YOU need to "grow up" a bit too, CRW.
See my post above... this was
See my post above... this was not a loving relationship.
Look at Harleypig's other post. The man's name is very descriptive.
Love the ad hominem
Love the ad hominem attack.
The prosecution you point out is *one* case out of many wherein the most generally meted out was a few months of probation. And I don't hear anyone crying for the forcible removal of their vaginas or ovaries.
Fortunately, we have this
Fortunately, we have this thing called the eighth amendment, and it prevents legal removal of genitals. Maybe you should read a little more case law.
The anger felt by a father, like me, is not the law of the land.
Do a quick google... more and more women are being prosecuted and sentenced for sex with minors.
Men don't actually rape to
Men don't actually rape to get laid. Guess you're the one who needs to "man up", little man. Rape is a power play, not about sex. Guess you missed that on the day they taught that at "social worker school" or wherever the hell you work. And your little "darling" isn't as innocent as you'd like to blind yourself into believing.
When an older man (six years
When an older man (six years to a 14 year old is a big deal) manipulates a younger girl into sex, this is rape. Sorry you don't know the difference.
Go read the original and full news article.
When a young boy is manipulated by a "hot" teacher into sex, it is just as bad and just as illegal.
Just because a kid is willing doesn't mean it isn't a crime.
My oldest daughter is 24, so I have no illusions about innocence. All a parent can do is instill a sense of personal responsibility and caution and try to delay their children's sexual activity until a son or daughter is old enough to make safer choices - better partners, birth control, etc. So far, I have four daughters over the age of 18 and no unplanned pregnancies. I would say I am doing well so far.
A 14 year old girl is not ready to have a sexual relationship no matter how big her boobs or how developed she may be. Going back to the dark ages when a girl was married and pregnant at 14 is not progress.
There are plenty of cases
There are plenty of cases where men pay child support and are barred from visiting their children. It would seem rape of another child... the mother, would mean this man cannot see the product of this rape.
This seems silly.