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Animal Rights

Pit Bulls: Will More Adoptions End Shelter Killings?

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“Egregious misrepresentation aside, the offense for which the humane community is most culpable is promoting pit bulls in a manner which provides free advertising to the pit bull breeding industry,” ANIMAL PEOPLE Editor Merritt Clifton opines in his compelling and courageous editorial, More adoptions will not end shelter killing of pit bulls, in the October 2011 issue of ANIMAL PEOPLE (News for people who care about animals). http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/index.html

Following are excerpts from his argument for a reality check on what is really happening to pit bulls and why. Clifton’s comments are presented here for the most part in paragraphs, in order to avoid extracting phrases out of context that might distort his original intent. But this is a mere fragment of his fascinating and well-documented editorial. He writes:

“Each year from a third to 45% of the total U.S. pit bull population enters an animal shelter, a phenomenon never seen with any other dog breed. “Of critical importance to realize is that there are very few accidental pit bull births. Because nothing resembling a pit bull occurs in nature, it is necessary to practice line breeding, mating pit bull to pit bull or a very close mix, to continue to have them. “Almost every pit bull who contributes to the surplus is a product of deliberate breeding, sometimes by a dogfighter, but most often just someone engaging in speculative backyard breeding, capitalizing on a perceived vogue for pit bulls created at least in part by the aggressive advertising of shelters and individual rescuers who hope to rehome more pit bulls instead of having to kill them from lack of other options.”

Clifton provides politically incorrect, powerful straight talk to the world of humane activists and organizations, most of whom seem to have forgotten--or maybe never knew—why the current pit bull dilemma exists and that their assertions as “experts,” in an effort to divert public awareness from the genetic nature of pit bulls, is allowing dog fighters and pit bull breeders to continue their exploitive, cruel activities with impunity, causing the suffering and deaths of thousands of animals the rescuers and advocates purport to protect.

This is an article that should be read by anyone involved in, or with an interest in, pit bull protection or anyone who has been a victim of attack. Too much current propaganda has little or no basis in fact and is contrived to further the interests of those who profit from the breed or apologists who use glib euphemisms and rote to justify unacceptable or dangerous behavior. Co-dependency between shelter pit-bull promotions and breeders?

Here’s how Merritt Clifton describes the co-dependency between shelter/rescue promotion efforts and pit bull breeders:

“The ever-increasing numbers of fatal and disfiguring pit bull attacks increase public apprehension of adopting an adult pit bull of unknown history, but the public tends to believe that pit bulls can make great pets if "raised right" from puppyhood .However, shelters typically don't have puppies these days. Pit bull puppies are in effect in the commodities speculation market, until they grow up and are dumped in shelters. So, persuaded by advertising meant to promote adoptions to acquire a pit bull, Joe and Josephine Q. Public buy a pit bull puppy from a backyard breeder. “About one of those puppies in three will come to a shelter within less than two years.”

Or is it possible that many of these “rescues” are actually fronts for dog-fighting operations and/or breeders, who literally “have a dog in this fight”and mainly in this market? Could some pit bull rescues actually be breeders or dog fighters in disguise? Clifton’s editorial quotes a bold and passionate presentation by ANIMAL PEOPLE President Kim Bartlett at the Conference on Homeless Animal Management and Policy in Hartford, Connecticut in 2002. He adds that, if she had been heeded, it is possible pit bull overpopulation would not be an issue today and “…animal shelters since then might have killed between eight and nine million fewer pit bulls.” Here are excerpts from Bartlett’s statement (full text in the ANIMAL PEOPLE article):

"I believe that pit bulls have a more negative reputation than most members of the breed deserve. I am not endorsing any arbitrary killing of dogs simply because they are of a particular breed, but I favor a ban on breeding of all pit bull-type dogs… “I think it is unethical to breed any dogs, or cats, so long as they are being killed by the million for population control…Since pit bulls clearly can be more dangerous to humans and other animals, and are more difficult to handle than most other dogs, and--most importantly--since they attract 'owners' who may want to exploit and abuse them, then for the dogs' own good, preventing further breeding should be a priority for the animal rights cause. "I have an uneasy feeling that a lot of people claiming to be pit bull rescuers are actually pit bull breeders and even dogfighters in disguise. Otherwise why would they oppose breeding bans that would not affect dogs already born? “People who rescue feral cats want to see an end to their breeding. People who rescue exotic animals such as parrots, lions and tigers, and potbellied pigs would like to see breed bans on those species. Why not the so-called pit bull rescuers?” "Public policy on animal welfare issues should not be set by breeders and fanciers, and certainly not by dogfighters who pose as breeders and even pretend to be rescuers. “When so-called pitbull lovers and rescuers use language like 'it is the right of Americans to buy [or breed] whatever kind of dog they want,' then they are quite obviously not animal rights advocates."

Clifton provides indisputable statistics to refute apologists who ignore reality. To paraphrase, by insisting pit bulls who attack, injure or kill other pets or humans can be “retrained;” that “it’s just the owner, not the dog;” and that “pits just get a bad rap and are misunderstood” is causing—not helping. And insisting more adoptions are the solution is, in fact, a major part of the problem. “More adoptions will not end shelter killing of pit bulls.”

Merritt Clifton approaches past and current trends and catastrophic decisions by major animal- protection organizations with a real sense of compassion for the dogs brutally exploited by abusers and euthanized in disproportionate numbers in animal shelters because of blind repetition of myths perpetuating the illusion that if enough of them are just adopted out--often to an uncertain fate and with a history of errant and even dangerous behavior--eventually the influx will miraculously decrease. But reality does not support this idealism, he explains:

“The total number of dogs killed in U.S. shelters fell by more than 40% between 1986 and 1993, but the number of pit bulls killed in shelters more than doubled, to about 358,000--15% of the total.

It should be obvious by now that this is the proverbial attempt to empty the ocean with a thimble. As Clifton laments in this editorial, “There may now be more organizations focused on pit bull rescue and advocacy than rescue and advocate for all other specific breeds combined.”

Following is a random sampling of the intriguing issues Merritt Clifton presents as a credible platform for acknowledging that our current approach to the pit bull problem is not only ineffective but actually making matters worse:

Why the numbers have grown.
“About 8.4 million dogs were killed in shelters in 1986, of whom about 168,000 (2%) were pit bulls, according to the limited available breed-specific data. “ More pit bulls have been rehomed in recent years than ever before, but as most of the U.S. still has no effective brake on pit bull breeding, pit bulls in 2010 rose to 29% of shelter dog admissions and 60% of shelter dog killing. The 2010 U.S. shelter pit bull toll of 930,300 was the second highest yet.”

Why most pit bulls in shelters are adults.
“Typically they come to shelters at about 18 months of age, having already had at least three homes: their birth home, the home they were sold to, and one or more pass-along homes that took the dogs in after problems developed in the first home into which they were purchased.”

With all the free/low-cost spay/neuter programs, why is pit bull shelter population increasing?
“By 1995 more than 70% of the U.S. dog population had been sterilized. A dog who was impounded or surrendered to a shelter 25 years ago had just a 10% chance of being rehomed. Dogs in shelters today have about a 60% chance of being rehomed--unless they happen to be pit bull terriers or close mixes of pit bull, whose sterilization rate is still barely 25%. “Despite that extraordinary rate of success in pit bull placement, however, about 75% of the pit bulls and pit mixes arriving at shelters are killed, either due to dangerous behavior or simply because shelters are receiving pit bulls in ever-escalating volume. Each year from a third to 45% of the total U.S. pit bull population enters an animal shelter, a phenomenon never seen with any other dog breed.”

Is it “just the owner?”
Here are just a few of the tragic statistics Clifton provides about the realities of life for pit bulls. He explains that this is not a matter of “nature vs. nurture,” but, “…a matter of inherently problematic dogs being acquired by inherently problematic people…” “ More than 5,000 pit bulls have been seized in dog fighting raids since 2000, a mere fraction of the numbers believed to have been killed either in dogfights, in connection with training dogs to fight, or in culling dogs who lose fights or show little promise of becoming successful fighters. “About 21% of the dogs impounded in cases of severe and prolonged neglect since 2005 have been pit bulls, and also 21% of the dogs impounded in cases of violent abuse--including 49% of the dogs set on fire and 14% of the dogs raped in bestiality cases. “But pit bulls not just the victims of mayhem. Disfiguring and fatal pit bull attacks on humans have occurred during the past two years at the rate of two every three days, are an unprecedented pace. Pit bulls and close pit mixes have since 1982 accounted for 45% of all U.S. and Canadian fatalities from dog attacks on humans…”

Who’s really making the decisions?
Clifton provides an intriguing history of the major humane organizations—American Humane Association (AHA), Best Friends Animal Society, American Society for the Protection of Animals (ASPCA), The Humane Society of the U.S. (HSUS) and People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA)--in regard to proposals for mandatory spay/neuter of pit bulls and breed-specific legislation. He also discusses the results of various forms of legislation to address both the burgeoning population and concerns about dangerous dogs.

Have they helped or hindered? What are the costs of pit bulls to society?
“According to the Insurance Information Institute, dog bites now account for more than one-third of all homeowners insurance liability claims, a recent average of about 16,000 per year. The average payout per claim rose 37% between 2003 and 2010…. “The cumulative liability from attacks by dogs from shelters and rescues in lawsuits known to have been settled within the past year alone is in excess of the annual budgets of more than 93% of all U.S. humane organizations.

Debunking the Myths
This editorial dispels the common myths that are repeated as gospel by pit bull advocates who have never bothered to determine their validity. Clifton debates these common untruths with facts: --No, pit bulls were never "America's favorite pet." --No, pit bulls were never "nanny dogs." --No, there is no evidence that if pit bulls were unavailable some other type of dog would be comparably exploited --No, it is not true that breed-specific laws do not reduce bites --No, breed-specific legislation is not inherently hard to enforce because of the difficulty of defining particular breeds.

Humane community credibility at risk?
Merritt Clifton reminds us that, “ANIMAL PEOPLE has warned, many times, that the trustworthiness of the humane community itself is at risk when animal advocates deny the realities of the pit bull crisis.”

Breed-specific legislation (BSL)?
“ANIMAL PEOPLE again reminds the humane community that an effective response to pit bull overpopulation must target breeding, and must be legislatively mandated, since pit bull breeders have proved intransigently resistant to any and all forms of gentle persuasion… “ANIMAL PEOPLE believes active enforcement of breed-specific legislation would be most effective if enforcement is triggered by evidence of breeding, sale, or other exchange. “Effective breed-specific legislation could stop the reproduction of pit bulls and other problematic breeds, stop dogfighting and speculation on fighting bloodlines, curtail shelter intakes of pit bulls and other "fighting" dogs, and reduce attacks on people and other animals.” (Above are excerpts. Read more… http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/index.html )

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Comments

dubv's picture

Yes, no point really.

Yes, no point really.

NotBornYesterday's picture

Dubv, this woman doesn't even

Dubv, this woman doesn't even understand simple genetics, how do you expect her to grasp the problem with pits?

NotBornYesterday's picture

We all will enjoy our lives

We all will enjoy our lives once the killings and maulings stop and we can walk safely down the streets without fearing a pit bull attack. Most sensible people cross the street when they see a pit bull, ever noticed that?

alice in LALA land's picture

nope.. never have.. most

nope.. never have.. most people stop to pet my "pit bull" but then "most people" are not paranoid dog haters

NotBornYesterday's picture

Then you don't have a pit or

Then you don't have a pit or you don't walk it down the street. A small child was run over by a truck and killed recently because she ran out into the street when she encountered an approaching pit bull.

alice in LALA land's picture

HUH?/ and you blame that on

HUH?/ and you blame that on the DOG.

dubv's picture

You folks love to frame a

You folks love to frame a breed discussion around blame. It is incorrect and a diversion, intentional or not. Dogs are not moral agents. So, it feels wrong to blame them for anything. Therefore, you cast the argument as one of guilt and of course it makes it all a human problem. You should think instead of cause and effect, with breed type obviously being a cause in behavior. Pit nutters talk to each other mostly about their wiggle butts, and then battle a detractor once in a while. What's instructive to get a handle on how most people feel about this breed is to read comments on articles before the pit nutters are alerted of it. The pit nutters are loosely connected and tell each other of articles to comment on via facebook alerts and such. So, a kid is attacked by a pit. The first comments will be from people who randomly found the article and will be a fair mix, with many not liking the breed. Then the pit nutters arrive in mass and basically spam the article. Also, google pit bull forum and then add in a random word to specify the forum type like classic car or fishing or whatever. Many forums will have an off-topic section and there will often be pit bull related threads. Read what people who aren't dumb enough to own a pit bull write. Here's one example I found in 30 seconds. http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2557342/1 Now truth isn't determined by consensus, but when most people think you are misguided it is often time to take stock.

NotBornYesterday's picture

Nailed it, Dubv. Here is an

Nailed it, Dubv. Here is an article from the Washington Post about the pit bull spammers. It explains everything you have said. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/08/AR2007120800094_pf.html

NotBornYesterday's picture

Thomas Edison did not own a

Thomas Edison did not own a pit bull and neither did he own Nipper, the dog made famous by looking at the phonograph. http://thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.com/2010/11/americas-dogs-nipper.html

Nipper, the famous advertising icon, was born in 1884 in Bristol, England. Thomas Edison on the other hand, was american. The famous painting of Nipper and his trademarked image were not even owned by Edison, in fact, they were owned by Edison's competitor Emile Berliner. Nipper would become the RCA symbol 34 years after his death when RCA and Victor merged in 1929.Barraud's brother Phillip was a professional photographer and took a photo of Nipper posing with his head titled, most likely the one above. Three years after Nipper's death, Francis was inspired by his brother's photo and created this famous painting in 1898.

As for the "famous" people, does being famous suddenly make you less stupid? No, there are stupid people in all walks of life. We've already established that Helen Keller never owned a pit. Rachael Ray's beloved Isaboo has had five attacks and Ray is delaying getting pregnant because she doesn't feel she can trust her own pit bull. I suggest that you get off those pit bull sites and stop spewing forth their propaganda because it is just making you look even more foolish than you already are.

KKM's picture

Excellent article focused on

Excellent article focused on the dangers of pit bull breeding! It is sad that so many animals have to die because of irresponsible human beings who are more interested in making money than the well-being of the animals. I agree, a ban on breeding pit bulls should absolutely be in place. There are plenty of dog breeds that are more friendly and less dangerous to own. The people who advocate the ownership of pit bulls should be the ones living with them and keeping them away from other people and their pets. It is the responsibility of those who breed them to make homes for them. All dog fighting should be ended once and for all! No animals should be subjected to such a harsh and cruel sport. God gave mankind the responsibility of protecting animals. But that responsibility has been usurped by soul-less people. I say soul-less, because, those who fight animals have lost their way and are lost in darkness. No person whose soul is out in the light would consider hurting another living creature or take pleasure from it. Breeding more animals for money and fighting does an injustice to the animals and to the people who are hurt and maimed by them. The animals may not know any better, but the people who bred them do!

KKM

alice in LALA land's picture

LOL someone actually thought

LOL someone actually thought ID meant identify as in "sure can ID that "pit bull".. it was big and had short hair so it must be a pit bull".. Jowls and drooling.. yup i canID that "pit bull".. and its ego driven owner

gremlin's picture

What I see as an identifying

What I see as an identifying look in a Pit bull or Pit mix is the face. They have a stare about them when they look at you that is intense.

dubv's picture

Reptillian is an apt

Reptillian is an apt description. They are off putting to other dogs who avoid direct eye contact. My dog loved all other dogs at the dog park but stayed away from pits, and I kept him away after I learned more and saw many pit fights there and several dogs were killed by pits at said park. People often find pits ugly because they look like a dog purpose built to hurt other living things, which in fact they are.

alice in LALA land's picture

absolute BS.. do any of your

absolute BS.. do any of your 'reptilian" people here know that many "pit bulls" are therapy dogs, rescue dogs and police dogs.. or are you so obsessed with hate and racism that your minds are fogged. I hope that none of you or your loved ones are ever in need of rescuing and a "pit bull" is the only dog that can save you.. or wait.. maybe I do hope that..your life is not worth saving with all of the hatred you exude here.. however dogs are just dogs.. they don't know that you wish them dead. I don't find your dog ugly but I do find you ugly. Anyone who has so much hate built up in them about dogs they don't even know is to be sadly pitied.. you know what is really ugly.. grab a mirror

NotBornYesterday's picture

Pits are not used as police

Pits are not used as police K-9s because pits cannot be trained to go for the arm and take down. Pits go for the throat and the police do not want the dog killing suspects. Also, since you are so good with the propaganda, why not bring up Stubby? Since you nutters think Stubby was so great, the question is why didn't the military use pit bulls instead of GSDs and Dobbies? Obviously they weren't impressed with Stubby. And they are even less impressed with pits in general because military bases have banned pits on base housing. What I think is ugly is a person who can see a child ripped to shreads, a family looking at a closed casket funeral and all you want to do is defend a breed of dog that is killing and mauling in numbers unlike any other breed in history. Now that is UGLY.

dubv's picture

I think I figured out Alice's

I think I figured out Alice's problem. She thinks she is obi wan kinobi from star wars, and she has the power of the force. She is deluded enough to think she can stand in the face of breed genetics reality or a vicious mauling and wave her hand and whisper "helen keller had a pit bull" and we'll all relax and see her point. Alice, you're just a dingbat in an old brown robe with dog hair stuck to it, sorry.

alice in LALA land's picture

sorry.. for what.. i love my

sorry.. for what.. i love my dog hair robe..it looks better on me than your tin foil hat does on you May the anti force be with you

dubv's picture

Pit bulls are used AT

Pit bulls are used AT EXTREMELY low rates by police and rescue teams. Show me one pit bull at ground zero or more than a few LEOs that use pit bulls for protection or even sniffing. Sniffing maybe, but I haven't seen it much at all. The pit bull law dog program went under due to lack of interest. Most of these things and using pits as therapy dogs is done primarily for publicity and exaggerated. Even you believed there were tons of pit bull police dogs out there, when there aren't by any stretch. You don't even know that pit bulls typically have different body language than other dogs. Your insistence that a dog is a dog is a dog is wearing thin. Alice, we are not full of hate and racism, but are instead trying to view things realistically. You are just not a very persuasive debater. You raise no points that are even worthy of being considered, but instead through little temper tantrums.

gremlin's picture

Few dogs are able to pass the

Few dogs are able to pass the training required to be a therapy dog so I highly doubt many are. More than likely it's just an owner slapping on the title of therapy dog. Example, my son was ADHD, I had a dog...that didn't make the dog a therapy dog for my son.

alice in LALA land's picture

your son is ADHD?.. I am not

your son is ADHD?.. I am not surprised.your "doubt" is wrong.. there are many therapy "pit bulls'..many people own them now and in the past.. i guess Helen Keller was just too stupid to know she had a killer by her side.

NotBornYesterday's picture

Ha, ha, ha, gotcha Alice.

Ha, ha, ha, gotcha Alice. Helen Keller never owned a pit. Sir Thomas was a Boston terrier not a pit bull. http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=2&res=9C02E1DB1530E733A2575AC0A9649C946397D6CF

Or this confirmation that Sir Thomas was NOT a pit bull. http://books.google.com/books?id=epnNAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA674&lpg=PA674&dq=helen+keller+sir+thomas&source=bl&ots=tNuTOXCyIM&sig=lPp8FOisMJUFQS2rMn2QVe6Z-YI&hl=en&ei=sQ9SS-CYMoXusQOastD-Bw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CEMQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=helen%20keller%20sir%20thomas&f=false

BOSTON, Feb 8 – Miss Helen Keller has had a pleasant surprise, which came to-day in the nature of a reward after the long midyear examinations. In the office of Dr. J. Varnum Mott, at the Hotel Pelham, some of her friends in her class at Radcliff presented to her a valuable BOSTON TERRIER, Sir Thomas.

And if you need pictures, yes that is an insult to you, here they are. http://cravendesires.blogspot.com/2010/04/famous-pit-bulls-helen-keller-edition.html

dubv's picture

And Hitler ate cake. And Ray

And Hitler ate cake. And Ray Charles shot heroin. What's your point in bringing up H. Keller?

dubv's picture

I didn't think there was any

I didn't think there was any required certification for therapy dogs, and some people would call their dog that to take it in to see kids in a hospital etc.

NotBornYesterday's picture

In fact, Dubv, I know of two

In fact, Dubv, I know of two cases where the pit bull "therapy/service" dogs were actually kicked out of programs at the library. You know about those two I'm sure. One was a Vick dog and the pit nutters went crazy, came down hard on a poor librarian who had no choice, the parents didn't want the dog around their kids. Rightfully so considering the pit's track record with kids and I ain't talking about those darn nanny dogs either. The other one was done by the Sheriff, I think. He didn't like the pit around kids either. I'd vote for that Sheriff any day.

gremlin's picture

Saying a pit bull is a

Saying a pit bull is a therapy dog(without being evalutated and trained) is like saying a German Shepard is a K9 cop just because it's owner is a police officer.

gremlin's picture

Yes, not only with the usual

Yes, not only with the usual basic training, they need to learn to help a person in a wheel chair, ignore the distractions around them, etc. Not many can pass it. I brought my Mastiff's to see my dad when he was in hospic. I was asked to bring them back to visit others. That didn't make them therapy dogs. Just dogs whose personailities was such that they could handle being in that environment. I just think people need to differentiate between dogs used as I described and ones who have actually passed the training. A therapy dog can help a person in a place where a normal dog can't go because they have passed the requirements.

gremlin's picture

Now see many people who see

Now see many people who see my Dogue de Bordeaux ask if he's a pit bull..I just shudder and say, When was the last time you saw a Pit bull with jowls and drooling!

alice in LALA land's picture

they would probably say..

they would probably say.. right now.. you have a pit bull and if your dog bit someone..Merritt Clifton would ask the nearest by stander.. what kind of dog was it. they say PIT BULL and yep there go his stats.. idiot.

gremlin's picture

Actually, no they don't, as

Actually, no they don't, as when I correct them and refer to the movie "Turner and Hooch" they realize he is a French Mastiff. Dogue's have the biggest head in the dogdom and typyically weight 100lbs + while the average pit is much smaller. Also with Dogue's you wouldn't need to use a break stick(I think that's what it's called)

dubv's picture

You're a walking id, Alice.

You're a walking id, Alice.

alice in LALA land's picture

a walking ID as in

a walking ID as in identification.. .. well thanks.. I have been "ided" by the idiots who are surely running the asylum. thanks so much.. gotta go now.. walking the "pit bulls' downtown

dubv's picture

No, id as in comparison to

No, id as in comparison to ego and super-ego.

NotBornYesterday's picture

This one was funny, Dubv.

This one was funny, Dubv. LaLaAlice thought it meant identification, how funny!!!! Sad too that there are people in the world like that. How do these people function?

dubv's picture

How do these people function?

How do these people function? Poorly ;)

cuppajo's picture

If the problems of this breed

If the problems of this breed were totally the result of nurture, then dog fighters could "nurture" labs, great dane, shepherds, boxers, etc., into being good fighting dogs. Obviously, that can't be done. Pits have been bred to be aggressive and fight and it's now set in the genes, much like race horses are bred to be good racers. Watch the several PBS shows on the dog. Pits go back hundreds of years to when they were bred to keep steers under control for butchers. Owners bred for that (the dogs looked more like boxers then)and prize pit bulls were put into competition until that "sport" was banned. The amount of adrenaline released in pits (and wolves and foxes) determines much about the behaviour they will exhibit. Wild aggressive foxes (related to grey wolves)were narrowly bred using just the tiny fraction of docile foxes born. Within several generations (it took a while) a line of tame friendly pet-dog type foxes was bred. Low adrenaline output. Along with it came natural changes in body form (folded ears, curled tails) and colorations including white with dark patches. This was on PBS just recently. Go online and learn something about dogs and genetics

cuppajo

dubv's picture

Good points. But wait for

Good points. But wait for it....the wild-eyed pit advocates have a comeback for what you just wrote. Yes, they are shameless and will squeeze blood out of a logical turnip if needed. The more ludicrous of them will contend that pits are used for fighting primarily because: 1. they are super loyal and want to please and so will fight if their owner wants them to, 2. they are brave, and 3. they are strong and agile. They want so bad for people to keep fighting dogs as pets that they deny that selection for the fighting ring caused behavioral changes. I've encountered these folks at dog parks at such, and they constantly want to hold court and be the center of attention regarding their pit bulls. They'll buttonhole a few folks and carry on with their BS and people usually nod their heads and say things like "interesting, wow, didn't know pit bulls were bred to change infant diapers, good to know" either because they are polite or actually convinced. They the pit bull nuts walk away full of endorphins and go online to talk about being a breed ambassador and how most people agree with them. They are about what you would expect of a group that would form a voluntary social relationship with the breed that kills the most humans each year.

alice in LALA land's picture

you are a freakin idiot.

you are a freakin idiot.

dubv's picture

Unfortunately, you have not

Unfortunately, you have not been able to demonstrate anyone's cognitive deficiencies here except your own.

silva's picture

There's another article that

There's another article that was up on this site that gives some good information on this same pit bull question. http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/animal-rights/there-such-thing-accidental-death-pit-bull

silva

alice in LALA land's picture

doing something for a long

doing something for a long time does not make it true.. Cliftons stats are skewed.. and wrong.. and you you lap dogs eat them up because they serve your purpose.. to eliminate "pit bulls'..animals that you do not see a s canine but rather like Clifton, compare to "wild animals"..how stupid id that.. comparing a dog to a puma? yea.. I'll buy that.. right after I buy the Golden Gate bridge..even the dreaded animal rights groups of HSUS and ASPCA do not believe in the elimination of "pit bulls' or in breed specific legislation.. only Clifton that crazy Collen person and this blogger..oh and of course Ingrid Newkirk at PETA.. can't for get the head crazy.

NotBornYesterday's picture

Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah,

Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah. And I suppose you think that the NCRC stats are the gospel? No one is calling for an elimination, that's the thinking of warped minds. I suppose that you think doctors calling for BSL means doctors want to eliminate pets huh? Doctors comparing pit bull attacks as shark attacks kinda indicates that they see pits as wild animals. Don't worry about Clifton or anyone else causing the "elimination" of pits, you guys, pit apologists, are doing more for the cause of BSL than anyone else.

alice in LALA land's picture

I know of no doctors calling

I know of no doctors calling for BSL.. and more to the point..the actual doctors who work on dogs abhor BSL.. they are called veterinarians

NotBornYesterday's picture

Here is the latest one.

Here is the latest one. Another group of doctors and their study was used to put in place the ban on pits in Denver. I have that one too. This one is in April 2011.

http://journals.lww.com/annalsofsurgery/Abstract/2011/04000/Mortality,_Mauling,_and_Maiming_by_Vicious_Dogs.23.aspx

Conclusions: Attacks by pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges, and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs. Strict regulation of pit bulls may substantially reduce the US mortality rates related to dog bites.

Anything else you don't know, Alice? I already know the answer to the question.

dubv's picture

I sent this to a pit nutter

I sent this to a pit nutter once. They actually said it seemed like a fly by night publication because you had to pay to view it (unless you access it through a library, etc)!

dubv's picture

Well, if Alice doesn't know

Well, if Alice doesn't know any doctors calling for BSL, I suppose that settles it. I know a vet quite well (dated her for a few years). She went to the most prestigious vet school in the US as far as rankings and acceptance rates, and, frankly, makes you look like a mental midget. She stated that it was inappropriate for vets to give advice on dog training and behavior as they are not formally trained in those areas and neither are they trained in breed selection. She also knew that dogs varied in behavior based upon breed. I'm glad you feel you can speak for all vets though. It is more like you found statements from the AVMA and vet quotes online. The AVMA and vets have an economic interest in not POing the clientele. This is why the AVMA does not denounce puppy mills and vets work with agro-business. Wanna read something the AVMA put out before pit bulls became a PC issue with an army of nutters behind them? http://www.scribd.com/doc/13616704/Dos-and-Donts-Concerning-Vicious-Dogs-by-Donald-H-Clifford Read what is said about pits on pages 3 to 6 (arabic numerals) inclusive. If you are the least bit perceptive, you will say that my reasoning would exclude emergency room doctors from speaking about BSL. Well, that doesn't quite work as those folks are the ones that actually see catastrophic dog bite injuries, while you seemingly ignore them because anything found in the media (like pictures of children with their scalps removed) must be biased by defintion.

alice in LALA land's picture

another racist.. both canine

another racist.. both canine and human.

NotBornYesterday's picture

Alice I would much rather be

Alice I would much rather be a racist if being a racist means having some compassion for the victims of pits rather than defending a breed of dog that is killing, maiming and mauling like pits are doing. What does that make you, Alice?

alice in LALA land's picture

that makes me a person who

that makes me a person who knows there is no such breed of dog called a "pit bull".. and that dogs that look like or have certain attributes no matter how scattered their parentage are killed for no reason.. other than "just because of the way they look" .. that makes you and those who believe in that sort of condemnation racists.Including any vet that "dated you" and no, you are no "country boy" if you were you would be 100 steps above what you are now.. a canine and human racist and might actually know something about animals

dubv's picture

Alice, you are a drama queen

Alice, you are a drama queen throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. Of course, there are several breeds referred to as pit bull. They are all closely related and in fact in the case of the APBT and AmStaff are practically identical. The same dog can be registered as an APBT with the UKC and an AmStaff with the AKC. There, of course, are mixes too. Now, is there a breed group called the pit bull? If not, then why did it take you so long to bring up that we were all, in a sense, chasing leprechauns? Of course, you know there is a pit bull group. And you have no problem acting as if a dog is within that group. How do I know? Because if not, then you would have no experience within them, couldn't rescue them, etc. This game of there are no pit bulls and no one can ID a pit bull (it's so hard! yeah right) cuts both ways, and you are too vacuous to notice. I really don't care what you have to say about me. I don't care about your opinion. You are a person who thinks ENTIRELY with the emotional circuits of the brain. I respond to you only to help innoculate anyone who reads this from your potentially destructive tripe, and to piss you off because you richly deserve it. Like many other folks like you in the past, you are incapable of judging your own arguments and how well you are actually doing here.

NotBornYesterday's picture

Dubv, I always have to ask

Dubv, I always have to ask when I see all these events for FREE spay/neuters for pits, how do they identify those dogs who qualify as "pits"? And since labs are the highest number of biters, why aren't we seeing FREE spay/neuter for labs? Labs are fairly easy to identify, there's a lab and then there is a lab. Has anyone given thoughts to these situations?

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