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Animal Rights
NYC Carriage Horses Forced to Work Despite Shutdown
On Saturday, August 27, 2011, a passionate e-mail was sent from NYC to activists and animal lovers all over the nation by Donny Moss, filmmaker and winner of a 2009 Genesis award for BLINDERS, his documentary on the horse-carriage industry in New York and the inhumane conditions under which the horses work and live. Donny wrote:
“Several hours ago, portions of NYC were evacuated for the first time in history, and the largest public transportation system in the country was shut down due to Hurricane Irene. With conditions deteriorating, Mayor Bloomberg implored NYers to stay home for our own safety and so that emergency vehicles can easily navigate the streets. Downpours occurred throughout the day.
“In spite of all of the above and the law which clearly states that carriage operators cannot work during "ice, heavy rain or other slippery conditions," dozens of horse-drawn carriage operators were working as of 4:30 p.m.
“If history repeats itself, the horses will be forced to make the long, treacherous trip through the streets of midtown back to the ‘stables’ when the storm intensifies.”
Donny’s frustration and anger focus on two entities—the ASPCA and NY City Hall— which he claims have failed repeatedly to act to stop a tradition that has no place in contemporary NY streets with bumper-to-bumper traffic and recurrent injuries that maim and kill the horses. He continues:
“As usual, the ASPCA, which enforces humane laws in NYC and collects an untold amount of money from donors in the name of helping the carriage horses, allowed the carriage drivers to leave the stables this morning and to work all day in the wet, slippery streets in spite of the law.”
“At City Hall the industry has been protected by two people who feign concern but have betrayed the voters and animals repeatedly – Mayor Bloomberg, who says that carriages are good for tourism, and Council Speaker Christine Quinn, who is beholden to the pro-carriage Queens democratic machine. Even if she didn't have this allegiance, she would still have blocked the bill to ban this cruel exploitation of helpless animals because she won't challenge the Mayor. (What happened to checks and balances between the legislative and executive branches?).
“Bloomberg & Christine Quinn have stripped City Hall of democracy, and the horses are just a few of the many victims.”
Donny Moss has created a chilling video posted on YouTube, which shows horses pulling carriages in ice and snow, competing with rushed city drivers and emergency vehicles in snarled traffic, and he asks, “Why doesn’t the ASPCA stop them…?” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRvVpx5U-6A&feature=related
Another of his films, Carriage horses in ice and snow storm, shows a heart-wrenching horse and carriage hit by a taxi, other accident scenes in NYC streets, and the bodies of horses being scooped up by snow plows. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_l_9MD29vs&feature=related
The Humane Society of the United States agrees with Donny Moss.
Michael Makarian of HSUS speaks about “Horse Drawn Cruelty,” and says, “Many people may think of horse-drawn carriages as quaint or romantic, but this is anything but romantic for the horses.” The film comments that it is “nose to tailpipe” weaving in and out of traffic, taxis and tourists, and the horses don’t always make it out alive. Makarian states, “It is a recipe for disaster.”
These carriage horses are forced to work in NYC in temperatures that range from 100 degrees in the summer to zero in the winter. “Many of them are elderly and the law states they should work only 9 hours a day, but it is not enforced,” states HSUS. When they finally are returned to the stables, they are placed in small stalls where they barely have enough room to lie down and not enough bedding to be comfortable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f41ZCKuB6B8&feature=related
The ASPCA’s website states:
“As the primary enforcer of New York City’s carriage horse laws—with firsthand knowledge of ongoing problems and violations—the ASPCA has concluded that neither our city’s environment nor the current law can provide horses with the fundamental necessities to ensure their safety and well-being.”
Mayor Bloomberg and the NY City Council:
But at a hearing on April 27, 2010, to phase out this horrific practice, Mayor Michael Bloomberg stated, “I have talked to the ASPCA and our health board and they have convinced me that these animals are treated humanely…” City Councilman James Gennaro stated that the ASPCA testified they have never issued a citation to the horse-drawn-carriage industry for animal cruelty. The ASPCA was not present at the vote”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jWz6s6r5f4 .
Donny Moss asks, “If the ASPCA is opposed to horse-drawn carriages in NYC, then why do they allow lawmakers to protect the industry by suggesting that the ASPCA supports it?”
In watching these videos, it is hard to believe that allowing horses to be mangled in collisions with trucks, taxis, and other vehicles in bumper-to-bumper traffic could NEVER have warranted a citation for a violation of animal cruelty.
And, with all the hype about possibly the worst storm since 1938 wreaking unpredictable destruction on subways, buildings and humans in NYC, why would the ASPCA allow these vulnerable horses to be out in the streets?
Donny Moss sent photos in his e-mail and pleads, “These are pictures of horses working in the rain at about 3:00 p.m. today (Aug. 27). Please share this information with your friends who donate money to animal organizations and/or who vote in NYC.
And he asks, “How many more injuries and deaths have to occur before NYC bans the inhumane horse-drawn carriage industry, like London, Beijing, Paris and Toronto?”
Readers can view the videos and write their opinions to:
Ed Sayres
President
Ed_Sayres/Aspca@Aspca.org
Stacy Wolf, Esq. ASPCA
Vice President and Chief Legal Counsel
Humane Law Enforcement
stacyw@aspca.org
Pamela Corey DVM
Director of Equine Veterinary Services
Humane Law Enforcement
pamelac@aspca.org’
AND:
Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg
City Hall
New York, NY 10007
PHONE 311 (or 212-NEW-YORK outside NYC)
FAX (212) 788-2460
E-MAIL: http://www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/mayor.html
Learn more on Donny Moss’ website: http://www.blindersthemovie.com/
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Donny, can't thank you enough
Donny, can't thank you enough for what you are doing. I hope we will hear more from you on opposingviews.com. We must keep the momentum going on this important issue. Although there are forces for profit that want to see these horses "perform" regardless of the danger and terror to the animal, there are also many wonderful people in all the large and small animal-protection organizations that want it stopped. Sometimes what they need is just to get enough public backing to help them accomplish the seemingly impossible.
We can all learn from you. The welfare of these helpless creatures has become your burning passion and ignites us all. Thank you and please share more with us.
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The nasty comments of the
The nasty comments of the carriage drivers/owners on this blog reveal how brutal these people are.
Just where was anyone being
Just where was anyone being "nasty" except for those folks who called carriage horse owners "disgusting," "brutal" etc., while parroting the lies and misinformation presented by Mr. Moss? As I said earlier, it would be one thing if Donny and the other anti-horse people would just frame their argument on the basis of their opposition to horses working in harness at all, or being domesticated at all, instead of making stuff up! Since when is it "nasty" to call a spade a spade and a liar a liar? What is being presented here by the anti-carriage-horse side is simply not true, and if anything further discredits their position.
Sorry, Daffie, I've seen what
Sorry, Daffie, I've seen what happens to those horses in NY and it belies what you are saying. Money talks and that is what you are talking about, no humanity, no reasonability, just give me that dollar. I think the owners and drivers of these carriage horses should be harnessed up and forced to pull those carriages in a hurricane.
::::yawn:::: When I gain
::::yawn:::: When I gain about 1200 lbs and sprout a second pair of legs, then you can harness me up LOL
Can't wait Miss Scab, that's
Can't wait Miss Scab, that's the first reasonable thing you've said so far. Only thing is I have too much humanity in my soul to do that to another living being, unlike yourself. But I just might make an exception in your case.
Dear Addled Second Grader:
Dear Addled Second Grader: Horses & man have had a symbiotic relationship since the dawn of time. Horses like & need to work. Those are just the facts -- if you have a problem with the facts as they are, join PeTA in their colonization of Mars, and you can try to do things differently ;^}
Dear Scab on society, we
Dear Scab on society, we aren't talking in those terms at all, we are talking about the lack of respect from money grubbing dirt like yourself that sees animals as a means to satisfy their perversions. People like yourself who will work an animal into the ground and not think a thing about it. You're just another throwback to evolution who crawls in the mud for a buck. Another scab on society is what you represent. I'm surprised you even know how to write or maybe your horse is doing this for you. Now go and get a wax job on that hairy back of yours and try to look like a human for a change. Or is that so beyond you to do? See you in the zoo.
See what I mean? As is
See what I mean? As is typical, when the anti-carriage-horse fanatics' arguments completely fall apart in the face of FACTS, they resort to childish ad hominems. @@ Who here is being "nasty" and "brutal" again? Geez...
Struck a nerve, did we? Who
Struck a nerve, did we? Who was the one starting this "feud" with your cutie remarks about a second grade education, huh? You can dish it out but you sure can't take it, can you? The facts are that you are an inhumane, greedy carriage horse owner, period.
Um, if memory serves, the
Um, if memory serves, the "2nd grader" retort was in RESPONSE to your lame "Miss Scab". Go back and look.
As for "nerves", dear -- I don't have any LOL
And the fact remains that you are only a keyboard jockey who does NOTHING for actual horses -- even as that you have failed, as you cannot put together a cogent argument.
So you got off on that, huh?
So you got off on that, huh? True to the name I bestowed on you, Miss Scab, a scab on society that needs to be scraped off. How does one argue with someone who is dedicated to the almighty dollar? Money talks, right? Like I said, you like to dish it out but you are incapable of taking it. You're right where you should be, at the ass end of a horse. Let's hope for diarrhea and then you'll get what you deserve.
You hope my horse gets
You hope my horse gets diarrhea? Not very compassionate of you, diarrhea in a horse can get very serious rather quickly - but I forgot, you know all about horses lol.
BTW, I *like* the ass end of a horse, unlike you who seems to have contempt for it.
The truly tragic thing here is that you can only deal with people after you have neatly pigeon-holed them in your ready-made stereotypes; you are cynical and ghoulish and dark, and will never know the love of life with horses that I have.
It must suck to be you.
You're not a carriage horse
You're not a carriage horse owner, that's too good a title for you. You're nothing more than a horse's ass, get a real job if you can handle it. And my four horses would disagree with you. Loving a horse doesn't mean letting it die a slow death at the end of an exhaust pipe.
Oh, my, NBY, I would have
Oh, my, NBY, I would have thought - HOPED - those 81 counts of cruelty would have prevented you from owning any animals...
Does it mean getting arrested
Does it mean getting arrested for animal cruelty for hoarding 81 animals? Hmm?
*Your* four horses? Who are
*Your* four horses? Who are they, Black Beauty, Flicka, Mr. Ed, and My Little Pony? :::helpless laughter:::
Yes, NBY, MONEY TALKS. If
Yes, NBY, MONEY TALKS. If you ACTUALLY were to do any research into the carriage horse issue in NYC, you'd see that the major push to have the carriages banned is by a real-estate developer who wants the land the stables are on. He doesn't care about the horses - he only cares about money. He claims his "plan" would mean the carriage drivers would make more money than they do now. So why aren't the carriage drivers taking him up on it? Because they love horses. The almighty dollar will never buy off those who have the best interest of their horses at heart. Period. http://www.mgross.com/gripebox/its-parkingtown-jake
Oh, how could I forget? It's
Oh, how could I forget? It's not a debate with a fanatical anti-horse person until they get themselves so worked into a lather that they have to shriek about how they must have "struck a nerve." Never, ever fails. In what I am sure will be a futile effort to get this discussion back to the subject at hand, NBY, remind us all, what is your experience with horses, again?
You would be surprised at my
You would be surprised at my experience with horses, extremely surprised but I won't embarrass you by listing all those awards won for my horsemanship and showing you up for the hairy reject you are. Yes, we have a saying that the guilty dog barks the loudest and you have been barking up a storm. I bet you even own a pit bull.
Hmmmm.... Then I am truly
Hmmmm.... Then I am truly astounded that you don't know that most horses, when relaxed, stand with heads at withers level (like carriage horses in the carriage stand)... Such a bizarre misreading of equine body language on your part to say "Oh, they're miserable."
Because I, NBY, have a lot of horse experience in a variety of equestrian disciplines (and I think you need to be corrected by now that I am NOT a carriage horse owner, just a carriage horse expert...). I have, as I have said, been in all the carriage stables in NYC... When was the last time you walked in a big, stressed-out show barn and found no stable vices? No weaving? No cribbing? No pawing or stall-walking? No ulcers? You won't find any of the stable vices that are common in other disciplines in NYC carriage horse barns. Why? The horses are happy and relaxed in their routine.
What have YOU ***done*** for a horse lately? (BTW, one doesn't win awards for the real measures of horsemanship, like hours spent in the company of a horse, or mucking stalls, or staying up late walking the aisle with a colicky horse, or giving a horse a better life than the one they had and truly putting them first...)
Look in their eyes, I did.
Look in their eyes, I did. Broken spirit. My horses don't stand with their heads hung low, why? Because they are too busy grazing on the lovely grasses of a meadow. Now that is the picture of what a horse should be doing.
And I ain't rich, Buster, I clean the stalls myself.
I'll wager that not only
I'll wager that not only don't you have any horses, I'll bet you never even set foot on a "meadow" LOL
NooBY - I thought you said
NooBY - I thought you said you weren't from NYC? How do you know anything about what goes on there? Have you been to their stables? Seen them at work... really?
The treatment of the NYC
The treatment of the NYC carriage horses is unconscionable. It is appalling that they live and work among midtown congestion. The oversight of this industry is completely lacking: the horses work in extreme heat and cold and now apparently, hurricanes. Quinn, Bloomberg, and the ASPCA should all be ashamed that they have turned a blind eye to these animals' needs. I commend Donny Moss for taking my blinders off on this issue.
jcplaywright - Start here and
jcplaywright - Start here and have your "blinders taken off AGAIN" - http://www.equiculture.org/nyc-position-statement.aspx and http://www.mgross.com/gripebox/its-parkingtown-jake For the record, the carriage horses in NYC are some of the most overseen and regulated horses in the world. No one is turning "a blind eye" to the horses - except for folks like Mr. Moss, with NO horse experience or equine qualifications, who refuse to SEE THE TRUTH.
I posted pictures of the
I posted pictures of the horses working on Saturday during and between the downpours leading up to the arrival of Hurricane Irene: http://www.blindersthemovie.com/. The ASPCA waited until 4:45 to send the horses back to the warehouses. The City closed the Central Park 30 minutes later.
....I am giggling now,
....I am giggling now, visualizing horses on Home Depot-esque shelving :::snort:::
You do realize that
You do realize that "warehouses" are for "wares"? ROFL JFTR, each and every NYC carriage building has an original C of O **AS** a stable. If they *were* converted warehouses, there would be nothing wrong with that -- but the fact is, they are not. All these years of "research", and you are still exactly where you started, Donny :-/
Truly astounding, isn't it?
Truly astounding, isn't it? If Mr. Moss's "argument" held any water, he wouldn't have to keep lying and spinning, would he? Especially revealing when he's just making stuff up about EASILY verifiable FACTS.
Oh, geez... and don't even
Oh, geez... and don't even get me started on the whole "banned in London, Beijing, Paris and Toronto" thing that Donny repeats here AGAIN... False, false, false. Repeating the "talking points" just doesn't make it true. There's a discussion about the supposed "carriage bans" here (just scroll down): http://www.equiculture.org/forel-response.aspx
Really... how hard is it to not make stuff up?
Per NEWSWEEK on 25 September
Per NEWSWEEK on 25 September 2007, "London, Paris, Toronto and even Beijing-as well as a dozen towns throughout the United States-have outlawed the carriage-horse practice altogether."
Taha! Funny you should cite
Taha! Funny you should cite that... I've been following this a LONG time and PeTA had those "statistics" unsourced on their website for years... then Newsweek wrote the article, using PeTA as the source. Now PeTA cites Newsweek as the source, who got the source from them. Classic circular reasoning from the anti-horse contingent. Doesn't make it true, though! If you visit the link I provided, you'll see PHOTOS of horses in a hack line under the Eiffel Tower! That's a FACT.
Like I said - Donny, your
Like I said - Donny, your hatred of the carriage horse industry (or Christine Quinn? I don't know anymore!) runs so deep that you have NO QUALMS at all about continuing to lie and lie and lie. Warehouses, indeed.
Ah, again the propaganda
Ah, again the propaganda master is at work. Donny, you should know by now that the CoA on all four carriage stables was that they were all originally built as stables. Shame on you... Tsk Tsk. They're not warehouses, no matter how many times you wish it to be so, it simply IS NOT TRUE.
Here are some horses out in
Here are some horses out in the lovely "country" on Long island - who almost drowned. http://www.liherald.com/stories/Lakewood-horses-nearly-drown-in-flood-waters,34927?content_source=&category_id=5&search_filter=&event_mode=&event_ts_from=&list_type=&order_by=&order_sort=&content_class=&sub_type=&town_id=
As MissCrabtree and other
As MissCrabtree and other sensible people commenting on this non-issue elsewhere have pointed out, the MTA shut down at noon not because external conditions at the time warranted it, but because it takes time - lots of it - to completely shut down a transit system with literally hundreds of miles of tracks and routes.
Meanwhile, above ground, at Central Park, it was overcast and occasionally drizzly, but really pretty good weather for August (compare that with heat and humidity!). Horses aren't meteorologists and they don't watch CNN. At the time, the weather was no different than any other day with some rain. The fact that MUCH later - HOURS after the horses had gone home to their nice dry stables - the weather turned nasty had no bearing on the horses or their well-being on Saturday morning and early afternoon.
I suspect the police horses were also at work at this time, and afterwards.
Please note that much of what Mr. Moss writes and presents in his "documentary" is untrue. For the truth about carriage horses and NYC carriage horses in particular, visit http://www.equiculture.org/carriage-horses.aspx and http://www.equiculture.org/nyc-position-statement.aspx
For the truth about the anti-carriage-horse groups, the ASPCA, NY-CLASS and real estate developers... THAT will eventually all come out.
It's outrageous that the
It's outrageous that the carriage horses were still working after City Transit was ordered to shut down by the Mayor. This is just another example of how the current administration has no regard for the humane treatment of animals. Mayor Bloomberg and City Council Speaker Christine Quinn are very strongly in favor of keeping this inhumane industry running. It's no surprise that they looked the other way when the horses were still out on the street while the storm was worsening. The horses were finally brought back after a number of people sent complaints into the ASPCA. You have to wonder how much longer they may have been out if people hadn't complained.
Why is it "outrageous"? What
Why is it "outrageous"? What do horses in Midtown have to with subways and the Rockaways? And the horses were monitored all day by the industry and the ASPCA -- believe me, your complaints had no bearing.
How dare these greedy
How dare these greedy disgusting people work these poor horses that they abuse day after day in hurricane weather! How does this industry continue? How are people so cruel to take these rides after they can clearly see how abusive it is? How do people continue to support this industry? Bloomberg, Quinn, and the ASPCA are not humans! Humans wouldn't treat anyone this way. I am very much aware of how terrible these "people" are, but everytime I read something like that I am still surprised.
What will it take for his to end?
They weren't worked in
They weren't worked in "hurricane weather". The best thing for a horse is routine, which should be maintained as much as possible. Also, do you realize that these "greedy, disgusting, terrible" people are the ones who use the money they & their horses EARN for every need and amenity the horses have, including stabling, feed, vet care, shoeing, dental care, vacations, and retirement? Do you know there are TENS OF THOUSANDS of horses in this country that do not have it anywhere NEAR as good as our horses? What have you done for a horse lately?
tl
tl
Lies, lies, and more
Lies, lies, and more lies.
The carriages which went out on Saturday broke NO laws; they worked a partial dayshift in alternatingly dry and drizzly weather. The industry was in contact with the ASPCA throughout the day; when the weather began to close in, the horses were returned to their clean, comfortable stables.
The transit system shut down officially at noon for a reasons which have no relativity to carriage horses. It takes hours for the train cars and buses to finish their last runs and return to the yards and depots; train tracks flood; emergency crews would have to be pressed into service to save stranded vehicles and people. The carriages simply went about their day walking through the Park, and then walked back to their stables on the Westside.
The disingenuous hysterical response from the humaniac gadflies is easy to dissemble; the horses did not work in heavy rain, their stables are not in Zone A, and no laws were broken, as per the ASPCA.
Ironically, a FB page called "Horse Evacuation East" had nearly 4000 members, with people frantically trying to evacuate their horses, or worried about not being able to. Several stables right in NYC were flooded -- but not the carriage horse stables, where our horses were sittin' pretty in their dry 2nd & 3rd floor stalls, with plenty of hay, grain, water, bedding, and 24/7 stablemen.
Yesterday, the day after the storm, the auction in PA went on as usual -- with dozens of horses sold to the killbuyer to meet grisly ends at Canadian slaughterhouses. The keyboard jockeys and ersatz filmamkers would do far more good if they actually put their money where their mouth is, and interceded on behalf of at least some of the thousands of horses going to slaughter in this country every week.
Our horses are just fine.
You did break the law: NYC
You did break the law:
NYC Charter - Title 24 Chapter 04 -- § 4-05. Working Conditions. (b) Environment. (1) Owners shall not allow a horse to be worked on a public highway, path or street during adverse weather or other conditions which are a threat to the health or safety of the horse and the public. Adverse weather conditions shall include but not be restricted to snow, ice, heavy rain or other slippery conditions. A horse being worked when such conditions develop shall be returned to the stable by the most direct route as soon as practicable.
Also, no one knew what the weather would be on Saturday, which is why the Mayor instructed people to stay indoors. People listened. The streets were virtually empty -- except for the pouring rain (which is well documented in photographs) and horse-drawn carriages. The carriage operators defied the Mayor's instructions and put the horses at risk during a city emergency.
....AND, if you *knew*
....AND, if you *knew* anything about horses (which you don't - doesn't look like you've learned anything since you ran away from our debate in NJ) you would know that keeping their routine is the best possible thing for them, both physically and mentally. But you don't CARE what's best for the horses, you only care what stokes your pathetic agenda.
"The streets were virtually
"The streets were virtually empty -- except for the pouring rain (which is well documented in photographs) and horse-drawn carriages."
First you complain about horses working in traffic, now you're complaining about horses working in no traffic? Why don't you just admit that this is your cause celebre and things like FACTS and LOGIC don't make any difference whatsoever - you'll just always be opposed to carriage horses no matter what. No need to make stuff up, Donny. (P.S. ****NICE**** propagandistic sleight of hand there on the "pouring rain" being "well documented in photographs," but not the carriages, because the carriages *weren't* out in the pouring rain. Sneaky, but you're not fooling anyone.)