Should Fat People Be Protected Under Hate Crime Laws?
Hate crime laws protect people from being attacked or discriminated against based on a whole host of things, including age, race, ethnicity, religion and sexual identity. Should "being fat" be added to that ever growing list?Some people in London seem to think so. They demonstrated outside the mayor's office on Sunday, demanding that laws be passed that protect overweight people from prejudice.
They are following the lead of San Francisco, where a law bans so called "fat-ism" in housing and employment. It also stops doctors from pressing patients to slim down.
San Francisco lawyer Sondra Solway told BBC News, "The San Francisco ordinance says you may want to mention weight to the patient but if the patient says they do not want to talk about that then you are asked to respect those wishes."
Back in London, members of the Size Acceptance Movement said they constantly face discrimination because of their waistlines. Kathryn Szrodecki said that in the UK fat people are stared at, pointed at, talked about and attacked. "I have been discriminated against - I am a YMCA qualified fitness instructor, but I have gone for jobs and been laughed off the premises."
Marsha Coupe said. "I have been punched, I have had beer thrown in my face, I have had people attack me on the train. They say 'Move out of the way fatty! Well person coming down the aisle!'"
Dr. Ian Campbell of the charity Weight Concern said even if a law were passed, he doubts it would have any immediate effect on the situation. "People who are very overweight do experience a lot of prejudice both in their social life and working life and do need some protection."
But there may not even be a need for such a law. A spokesman for the Equality and Human Rights Commission said size was already protected by the legislation if it were caused by a disability: "Potentially human rights legislation would also cover people by protecting their right to work."
Should Fat People Be Protected Under Hate Crime Laws?
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I hate fat molecules
Even ignoring my belief that hate crime laws are largely unnecessary at this point in society , I have to wonder, do people really commit violent crime against fat people with the express purpose of intimidating fat people? That really is why hate crime laws exist, to discourage that at some level. I don't buy for a second that fat people face that.
I'd imagine that a case of someone throwing beer in your face and punching you while screaming fatty, as supposedly happen to Marsha Coupe here, is extremely rare, and could just be prosecuted as assault.
Almost all of the discriminations that takes place against fat people are social discriminations, rather than institutional or commercial or criminal, and so it's not really possible to regulate it through any type of legislation, unless I recently moved to Oceania and the thinkpol are coming after me.
Also, I know that some overweight people are that way due to some type of medical condition; but an overwhelming majority are not and could lose the weight if the discrimination is so overwhelming to them. I'm not suggesting discriminating against them is okay because they could lose weight, I'm just saying if the discrimination is so terrible that you thought a hate crime law was needed; wouldn't you just lose the weight? Perhaps I'm being ignorant as to how difficult it is since I've never had to try to lose weight except like a pound maybe for some swim meets in high school .
PS: The picture accompanying this article creeps me out for some reason ...
- caelum
October 19, 2009 12:49PM
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Your postscript
...probably reveals more about you than you'd like to admit.
- jochanaan
October 21, 2009 3:32PM
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I think
it admits that I find his face creepy, in the bordering on pedophilia sense.
- caelum
October 22, 2009 12:06AM
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wow
That is pretty ignorant.
- Khannea Suntzu
October 22, 2009 12:50AM
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What about tall people?
I'm 6'3". People are all the time asking me to get stuff down for them or to put stuff up. I need a lawyer. No one ever asks short people to do those sort of things. It's discrimination , I tell you. And, hey, what about equal access? Short people are always building things too low because they think it's funny when we bump our heads. They also seem to think it's funny the way our feet hang off the end of the bed, not to mention the short clothes they try to make us wear.
I'm being factitious of course. Is there anyone on the planet suffering from the 'poor me' syndrome who couldn't make a laundry list of why and how they have it so bad, and all the world is picking on them? Isn't there a point where it's fair to tell all the crybabies to quit their whining?
Welcome to the real world where no matter what you look like, someone, somewhere is going to find fault with it because you're too big or too little, too tall or too short, too pretty or not pretty enough, your hair color, eye color, hair color or skin color doesn't appeal to them, you go to the wrong church , belong to the wrong political party, went to the wrong school , or you name it.
Common courtesy can't be legislated and that's really what we're talking about. Over the years, I've found that when I'm courteous to others, others tend to be courteous to me. Not always, and I'm not always 100% courteous when I probably should be, but it works a high enough percentage of the time that I'm not going to weep aligator tears when it doesn't. Among other things, with six billion people on the planet, I see no need to associate with those who treat me less than well. For everyone who doesn't like me, there are certain to be a few who do. I'm okay with that, which I'd better be, since that's the way it is.
- Don Earl
October 20, 2009 2:05AM
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Tall People
Have you ever been denied a job because of your height? Or had to pay more for a seat somewhere because of the extra "headroom"? Has anyone thrown something at you while pointing out how tall you are? Do people stare at you in the street and point or laugh at you because of your height? Have you ever been attacked or denied any basic human right because you're tall?
- Jerica
October 21, 2009 12:20PM
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Relevance?
What does hate crime legislation have to do with people laughing at you on the street? It sucks, but the laws discussed will not criminalize mockery. If your civil rights are violated, that's already against the law .
- lostlo
October 21, 2009 1:48PM
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Oh, political science....
Of course you would take the side of the poor unfortunate soul. (little mermaid anyone?) What is it they teach you anyway, how to ignore the majority of people and single out the unhappy people to pander to?
If a person is too fat to fit in one seat, they need to pay for two or else stop eating for a week. Physiologically, it is healthier to undereat for a while to control weight than to remain obese. Actually, people who eat the minimum amount of calories to live on live longer than average by a lot.
Weight is a choice and therefore laws against discriminating are like making laws against discriminating personality traits. "I'm lazy and I can't help it so please make employees hire me because I can't get a job!!!"
As for the basic human right comment, what right are you referring to? The "right to a job" or the "right to happiness"? I call shenanigans.
- sunshiner424
October 21, 2009 2:26PM
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Weight is not necessarily a choice...
...especially when the information that is given to people by health "experts" is incorrect and certain to cause them to GAIN weight . I know, because the "prudent" diet recommended by government health and medical organizations made me gain weight and put me on the road to Type II diabetes . When I stopped listening to those experts, I lost 13 lbs in 3 months, and more since then. I've had no trouble maintaining my BMI of 19.4 for the last 4 years, without starving myself, regardless of how much or how little I exercise . I haven't had a cold or flu in 4 years (thanks, but I'll pass on your swine flu vaccine ). And I did it by EATING, not giving up food . The key is to eat the food that your body wants and needs to be healthy. Obesity is not a natural condition, but it's also not a choice.
To find out more, I recommend the following articles:
Why You Can’t Lose Weight: Change Your Metabolism with Food to Slim Down Without Being Hungry
http://weight-loss-methods.suite101.com/article.cfm /why_you_cant_lose_weight
How to Start Losing Weight: Exercise Alone May Not Be Enough to Get Results
http://weight-loss-methods.suite101.com/article.cfm /how_to_start_losing_weight
What Not to Eat: Give Up These Carbohydrate-Loaded Foods and Lose Weight
http://proteins-carb-fats.suite101.com/article.cfm /what_not_to_eat
Lift Weights to Lose Weight: Why Anaerobic Exercise Works Best for Weight Loss
http://weight-loss-methods.suite101.com/article.cfm /lift_weights_to_lose_weight
The Right Way to Lose Weight:
http://weight-loss-motivators.suite101.com/article.cfm /the_right_way_to_lose_weight
- expataddie
October 26, 2009 12:09AM
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Took the class
Thanks, but I have studied exercise phys at college level.
What a person puts into their mouth is a choice. It's not easy because hormones go haywire when fat cells grow too large but it is still absolutely a choice. Same as how drug addiction is a choice. Not saying it's an easy one, but there are options.
- sunshiner424
October 26, 2009 6:41PM
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You misunderstood me
What someone puts in their mouth obviously is a choice. But when people are encouraged by experts to eat food that is guaranteed to make them gain weight (when those experts tell them it will do the opposite), you cannot say that the status of their weight is their choice. If I tell you to study for a Chemistry test, and you do, but then I give you an Economics test to write instead, can we say that your poor performance is your fault?
And BTW, I'm glad you have studied at college level. I am an award-winning research scientist with a Ph.D. who taught University for many years. Fat cells are more than sites for energy storage. They actually comprise what is now recognized as one of the most important endocrine glands in the body.
Simplistic solutions like "just don't eat so much" overlook the biochemical reasons that people overeat in the first place, and the signaling that goes on in the body with regard to appetite. Eating carbs MAKES you hungry. Eating processed foods (carbs!) depleted of minerals stimulates hunger as your body attempts to get enough micronutrients. Eating fat satisfies hunger.
- expataddie
October 28, 2009 8:29PM
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In that case
We should be trying to change the information and common knowledge on how to lose weight instead of calling it a hate crime . I agree that there is misinformation out there, for example the push for everyone to exercise to lose weight (not likely to help).
Making it a hate crime would not help anything either. Hate crimes are for people born in a condition that others may hate. Nobody is born obese. On the other hand, there is no cure for being black (and that is a horrible thing to even suggest, being black definitely doesn't need a cure and that is the point).
- sunshiner424
October 28, 2009 8:36PM
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You'd be surprised.
There isn't much of that I could say no to and I'm only moderately tall compared to some. The taller one is, the more folks tend to stare and make stupid remarks. At the end of the day, if you're comfortable with who you are, the opinions of others has no more meaning than the noises that come out of a box full of puppies. If you're thin skinned and wear your heart on your sleeve, everyone has power over you -- you're just another puppy in the box.
I don't have much use for crybabies and whiners, especially when the crying results from lifestyle choices the whiners largely make for themselves. Things are tough all over and the perception that everyone else has it better than you is usually only that; a perception. The whiners and complainers typically aren't insisting they be treated the same as everyone else. They're usually asking for special privileges and immunities not enjoyed by others. Happy making absurdities to the contrary, all men are created unequal. Making the best of the inequalities is what the game of life is all about.
For starters, you may wish to abandon the notion you have "rights". If a thing has value, you may assure yourself there is someone, somewhere who will seek to take it from you. For a thing as highly valued as liberty, often viewed as "rights", you only get to keep that part of it you're willing to fight for. If you seek to take liberty from others, you may expect to be opposed.
So, I'll ask you, if you're a fat person, what strengths do you have to compel me to treat you any differently than you are currently being treated? If some don't find you attractive, can you force them to love you? If you take up two chairs on an airplane , can you force the business owner to let you have the second seat for free? If a business owner has a job opening for which an applicant other than yourself is more qualified, can you force him to hire you anyway? If a private citizen finds you obnoxious or inconsiderate, can you force him to treat you with an unusual degree of courtesy?
These "rights" you speak of are not ones I personally enjoy and in fact infringe on my ability to keep some small measure of those things I've worked for or fought to keep for myself. What makes you so special that you should have a "right" to take what is mine?
- Don Earl
October 21, 2009 4:48PM
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Too tall?
I was going to replay to Don Earl that I've been asked many times to get things down from high shelves for people and am happy to do it (I'm a 5'11" or 180cm tall woman). But then I saw your comment. I'm not a whiner, but I'll tell you that I don't fit in most public toilet stalls and all my life I've had trouble buying clothes that are long enough or shoes that are big enough. I've had shorter men tell me that I'm "too tall" (presumably to be of romantic interest) and I've had people look up at me, then immediately look at my feet (to see if I'm wearing heels). I've been stared at on the streets, particularly when walking hand-in-hand with my 5'3" (160 cm) husband. Also get lots of looks since I moved to Asia, because I'm taller than EVERYONE here. Would I change my body if I had the choice? No, because I'm happy with myself. Of course, I would make toilet stalls a little bigger, to save my knees when I sit down...
- expataddie
October 26, 2009 12:02AM
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We need to get rid of Hate Crime laws altogether!
We criminalize behavior - not attitudes. Murder is no more repulsive for being driven by prejudice than money , passion, etc.
- AlibiFarmer October 21, 2009 11:28AM
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I've decided not to give your kids a job
Because they're of a different race than me. Also, create pamphlets calling for their murder .
Just a heads up.
- quantummechanik October 21, 2009 12:08PM
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It's called free speech
EVERY ONE has a right to make a fool of themselves! So if you are determined to do it, go for it!
- AlibiFarmer October 21, 2009 1:09PM
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So, you're cool with hate literature
being protected by free speech , even if it leads to a marked increase in hate crimes , including murder .
You're also fine with racial, sexual discrimination because that's free speech too.
Right?
- quantummechanik October 21, 2009 1:22PM
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I believe most of your examples are crimes anyway.
Aren't they? So what is the benefit of even more laws? I believe in free speech - and free speech means nothing if it only protects what's popular for the moment.
The best way to expose fools is to let them talk. Suppressing ideas doesn't kill them, it just drives them underground where they fester unchallenged.
So yes, I am cool with hate literature. Let them speak, and they will expose themselves in ways they never would if they were kept silent.
- AlibiFarmer October 21, 2009 1:30PM
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I have to agree.
The first amendment is designed to protect unpopular speech .
- SolarSanitizer
October 21, 2009 2:21PM
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Uh...no
Hate speech laws are what makes those things illegal .
- quantummechanik October 21, 2009 2:43PM
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Quantum, I must disagree
Quantum, I agree with so much of what you write on OV, but I have to disagree when it comes to " hate speech ." There is no such thing in the United States. That's a very Euro-centric idea. We have the 1st amendment, which protects even the most vile speech . That means preachers can go to a gay man's funeral and hold up the most outrageous signs. It means the KKK can say whites are superior to blacks. We may loathe that speech, but we have to protect it.
Meanwhile, job discrimination falls under "civil rights." That is completely different.
Ultimately, are you for hate speech laws? I am pro-1st Amendment myself. And like I said, that means having to swallow some nasty stuff -- while protecting honest, sincere dissent.
- Vandal K
October 21, 2009 2:48PM
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Oh, please...
Discrimination is illegal in most cases, and where it is not expressly covered it is still subject to civil suit.
Assault and battery illegal.
Murder is illegal.
Harassment where the nature of which is not illegal can still be subject to civil suit.
What am I missing that hate speech laws need to cover?
Excessive and unnecessary lawmaking creates a problem of it's own, more opportunities for wrongful interpretation and prosecution of those laws, overcrowded jails that combine violent and non-violent criminals, massive administrative costs for prosecution.
- jesuissb
October 22, 2009 10:01AM
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Actually
You should be entitled to do so, but hiring an assassin or ptherwise inciting a murder does make you an accessory at least. Also, discriminating against potential employees based on such a trivial matter as race could cost you more customers than it saves you, so you'll likely lose money and probably go out of business for that decision, especially since the people you've slighted have the right to protest and boycott your operations so long as they don't damage your property.
- JKM121
October 22, 2009 8:06AM
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Oh I wish this were a joke
It's arguable that hate crimes laws do much anyway but this is just stupid. Hate crimes protect from crime based on things you can't control ( race , sexual orientation, sex ) not things that are 100% under your control (silly conspiracy theories, terminal republicanism, and a big fat ass). Want people to stop calling you a fatass? Get rid of your fat ass. I seriously doubt there are many people being serially abused due to their weight .
Not letting Dr's tell fat people that being fat is bad for your health is the worst part of this. Guess what? Being fat is bad for you. It's bad for your knees, it's bad for your heart it's bad for every part of you. If you want to choose to be fat that's fine but if your Dr doesn't tell you that you'd be healthier if you lost some of that weight he's not doing his job.
- State of Reason
October 21, 2009 11:35AM
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Being thin isn't always healthy, either
You point out something that is vitally important -- health . But most thin people don't think twice about it because they're thin and believe that being thin equals great health. Thin people can have high blood pressure and cholesterol and many times thin people eat way too much fast food and greasy garbage because they are under the delusion that if the stuff doesn't cause you to gain weight , you're good to go. I think in the next 20 years we'll see the results of what all the thin people have been eating. I doubt many of them even bother to check their blood pressure or cholesterol levels because they think the scale tells them all they need to know.
Genetics can play a large part in weight and health. If it were so easy to lose weight, more people would do it. Some people have thyroid conditions that cause them to be obese. Some people are of cultures and races that are simply heavier, like Mexican or Guatemalan peoples. Are we to discriminate against them for their genes and race ?
Do you really think it is okay to decide just by looking at someone that they could control their weight? They're fat, therefore they're in 100% control of their weight and must lose weight for you to have basic respect for them? How on earth can you tell who is healthy and who isn't judging only on body size? Judy Molnar would be considered fat for her looks and size, but she runs marathons and is a top athlete.
Do you even know the difference between LDL and HDL cholesterol or what "good fats" are?
Finally, it also seems like cellulite (which is another word for fat) is acceptable as long as it is in the female breasts. This is where fatness is celebrated. If it's somewhere, anywhere else, it is considered evil. What hypocrisy. Fat is the fat whether it's on the hips or the breasts or under the chin.
- Jerica
October 21, 2009 12:27PM
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You're absolutely right, but only on 1 thing
Being thin by itself does not guarantee good health and I didn't mean to imply it did. However, being morbidly obese (I'd argue you have to be pretty damn obese before anyone's going to consider punching you in the face for it as the article said) is nearly a guarantee of bad health.
Yes, a tiny handful of obese people have a thyroid problem that makes them fat. These people may be the tiny exception to the "you choose to be fat" idea I expressed. I never said it was easy to lose weight . It can be very difficult, especially if you've been fat your whole life. I don't believe that there are many people (with the exception of those few with legitimate tyroid problems) that are "born" fat. Many people were raised to be fat by parents who were likely fat and didn't teach their kids to eat well and exercise but that doesn't mean they are genetically predisposed to be fat.
You are completely misrepresenting what I said. I do not have less respect for people who are fat. I did not say that being thin means being healthy. I absolutely oppose people hitting or degrading people for being fat, or for just about any other reason. Yes, I am aware of the difference in good and bad cholesterol and fats. You're just jumping on the standard persecution bandwagon (this bandwagon must be riding a little low. Sorry, just a little fat humor to lighten things up. HA!).
Judy Molnar may be a little bit overweight but that's not at all what we're talking about here. We're talking about obese. She herself is working on losing weight and encouraging others to do the same.
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0 ,,20131754,00.html
I know, that's an old article. That doesn't make it untrue.
There is absolutely no question whatsoever that being obese
http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/defining.html
is bad for your health in almost every way. Should you go anorexic and stop eating? No, clearly not and nobody is suggesting that. Should you get down to a healthy weight? Absolutely! Ever wonder why they call it a healthy weight?
BTW, the kind of fat that you have in your breasts is a different kind than the fat in your legs or the fat between your ears. It's true though that having too much fat in your breasts is also unhealthy. How do you think the back holds up to FF breasts?
- State of Reason
October 21, 2009 12:56PM
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Good point
You're right, I can be unhealthy even though I'm thin (and in fact, have been on several occasions). That's why I don't want laws prohibiting my doctor from telling me what I should do to become more healthy just because I don't want to hear it. Thank goodness there aren't similar regulations for alcoholics or I might still be drunk.
I guess I'm really missing something here.
- lostlo
October 21, 2009 1:51PM
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EXCUSE ME WHILE I STAY SKINNY AND EAT FAST FOOD
They do have a choice, people need to stop using genetics/health issues as an excuse. I grew up in michigan, where this is a huge percentage of overweight/obese people, and i currently moved to Europe, where barely anyone is overweight compared to that where i grew up. Its sad that all these overweight people are being told that they have genetic problems or physical problems that dont allow them to lose weight. When it comes down to it, it's all about your personal lifestyle, your choice on what you put inside your body, and how you decide to take care of your body.
People need to stop being told its ok to be overweight, its disgusting. i dont care how mean i sound. Something needs to be done. its sad that in The States we keep changing the obesity level to accomodate for the overweight people. they should just accept they're fat and lose the weight, its healthy for them, healthy for their life, and in doing so, they set an example for everyone else.
and ":thyroid problems", yes for some, but for the amount of overweight people there are, you HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME.
My BMI is perfect, im gonna go eat fast food now.
ARE YOU SERIOUS. a lot of in shape people choose to be that way, and choose to be healthy, so while you're over there greasing up your keyboard and sitting on your computer all day defending your weight, im gonna go be active, eat healthy and try to make my body as healthy as possible.
I cant believe this is even a topic.
- fixielover August 29, 2010 3:30PM
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If anyone should be able to call you a fatass, it's your doctor
It's absolutely ridiculous to protect overweight people from discrimination by their doctor . It's his job to let you know what you need to do to be healthy and working off your lardo ass is probably priority number 1.
While it is true that losing weight is much more difficult for some people than for others, it's always possible. There is no such thing as uncontrollable obesity . Eat less, exercise more, and you WILL lose weight no matter what. I come from a family of overweight people. at least 75% of my family would be classified at obese. All throughout my childhood I was overweight but when I turned 18 I decided to change that. In a matter of 1 year I completely changed my eating habits and my physique. Now, 5 years later I am still in a healthy weight range. It is quite difficult for me to stay thin due to my family's genes but that just means I need to work a little harder than most people in order to do it. Other fatties can do it to.
- domokun
October 21, 2009 12:12PM
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DOCTORS Can't Weigh In on Weight?!?!
Okay, I have seen some crazy discrimination against my overweight friends, no physical violence, but lots of stuff from very obnoxious name-calling to increased difficulty in getting a job. Still, a hate- crime law would be going overboard. I don't like them much in the first place but if we are going to have them they should be about things you have no control over (as other posters have mentioned, like race /gender preference/etc.).
But the doctor thing is ridiculous. I am a smoker and don't resent my doctor telling me to quit, it's his job to try to make me have healthy habits and lose the bad ones! Doctors should be all over their overweight patients to lose weight even if it falls on deaf ears, just as they should be all over me about smoking .
Astounding that we can call obesity one of our largest health issues in this country and yet a city can legislate against the best way to combat it.
Should overweight people be treated just like everyone else? Yes. Should we raise children to not hate people because of how they look? Yes. Should we restrict doctors from doing their job? Heck no! They are on the front lines of a war these days and should be fighting the good fight every chance they get with every weapon in their arsenal when it comes to their patients' health. Who cares if it's annoying or hurts for a bit? They aren't trying to insult anyone, they just want their patients to have the best possible chance at a healthy life.
- CraftLass
October 21, 2009 12:36PM
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Yep, yep, yep
I agree completely. Unfortunately, because of the insanity of the American " health " care system, many doctors recommend that their patients do one thing for good health (eat a low-fat diet ) while doing something different themselves (eat a low-carb diet) because they know the latter works better. They hold back with their patients because they are afraid of getting sued. Craziness.
Why You Can’t Lose Weight: Change Your Metabolism with Food to Slim Down Without Being Hungry
http://weight-loss-methods.suite101.com/article.cfm /why_you_cant_lose_weight
How to Start Losing Weight: Exercise Alone May Not Be Enough to Get Results
http://weight-loss-methods.suite101.com/article.cfm /how_to_start_losing_weight
What Not to Eat: Give Up These Carbohydrate-Loaded Foods and Lose Weight
http://proteins-carb-fats.suite101.com/article.cfm /what_not_to_eat
- expataddie
October 26, 2009 12:15AM
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Protections
Weight is not always within the control of a person. Genetics and disease can play a huge part, as well as race and availability of healthy foods, places to exercise etc. Low income people might go for higher fat meals because lean meals cost more. Organic food always costs more.
There are different body types, some are athletic and some are not. Some people are prone to gaining weight and some are not. Women will gain weight easier and have a harder time losing it than men. Men might get fat from drinking too much beer (the "beer gut" phenomenon.)
Some people have thyroid conditions which make it impossible to lose weight. Some people simply eat dinner too close to bed time so even though they aren't eating MORE food, it is sitting in their stomachs and not getting burned off so more transfers into fat stores. Some people neglect to drink enough water . Some aren't educated enough on nutrition to know WHAT or WHEN to eat.
With so many factors, what do we do? Obviously it would be a perfect world where overweight people were not attacked for what they look like. After all, aren't we screaming, "our bodies, our choice" when it comes to abortion (when it actually deals with the body of a completely separate being within its mother 's body)? So why are we acting like heavy people SHOULD be targeted and their bodies are somehow our business?
If I started dictating what you should eat, you wouldn't enjoy it. As if thin people don't eat greasy or fast, fatty food? You see them every day in restaurants stuffing their faces with fat, cholesterol and sodium drenched garbage. But we only get UPSET when it's a fat person eating it. It's only when the person is unattractive to our eyes that we suddenly care so much about what they are eating or what they weigh.
When was the last time you got your cholesterol and triglycerides checked? How about your blood pressure and blood sugar? Are you thin and think you don't need to worry because you're thin and nothing bad will ever happen to a thin person? Or do you think because you're thin NOW, you will always be thin? (I have news for you, it isn't always so. I know a man who was always fit as a teen and young man who is morbidly obese now in his 40's. Never saw it coming.)
Should weight be protected under hate crime laws, in many cases, yes. In cases where people are denied jobs or denied basic human rights because of their weight.
Who is going to decide just which fat people are in control of their weight and which aren't? Isn't that a determination best made by someone with oh I dunno -- a medical degree? So before you go around attacking someone for being fat, assume they have a disease or other problem which makes it impossible for them to lose weight easily. Give them the benefit of the doubt and try being a human being capable of understanding and compassion instead of a person who thinks that everyone else exists to please them and their idea of attractiveness.
And while we are spending so much time thinking about what other people eat and do with their bodies, we should be looking at we do with our own lives and start minding our own business. If you want the freedom of choice on what to eat and what to do with your body, you must afford that to others.
If you want to say well, obese people cost us money , well lots of things do. Smokers do (do you smoke?), people who drink alcohol also cost us money (cirrhosis of the liver anyone? GERD? High blood pressure? Heart disease? Drunk driving accidents?). Are you going to stop drinking because it's bad for you? Please.
Protecting heavy people from discrimination is obviously worth considering given the terribly judgmental attitude we have these days toward anyone who does not measure up to a beauty standard we see on TV and the illusion of reality we swallow so easily of airbrushed and perfected bodies.
Being "fat" doesn't always equal being unhealthy, either. Many people who would be considered fat are actually more healthy and stronger then many of their thin, weak counterparts.
- Jerica
October 21, 2009 12:52PM
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But seriously!
I seriously doubt it was your size that got you the Beer bath, more likely a strident and extremely obnoxious attitude.
No one forced you to be over weight and I for one have had it with sharing a airline seat with someone 200 lbs over their healthy weight that is taking half of the seat I paid for.
Grow up, take responsibility for your self and stop blaming others for your poor decision making. Hate crime laws are a pathetic joke, is it going to be a crime to have a functioning intellect, sounds like they are headed that way.
The idea that I should pay for your health problems because you smoked for 20 years when the damage was known for 50 years is ludicrous. I did not force the cigarette between your lips, I did not force you to eat the quart of ice cream or force Booze down your throat.
If you are over weight with rare exception it is your choice. Take responsibility for your choices and be an adult.
Most people would have walked away, I suspect the "assault" was started by the purported victim.
"Wow, what happened, I walk in to a bar pick a fight and get clobbered, surprise!." Seen enough obnoxious drunks, with them it is always someone else's problem, sound familiar.
- Skeptical
October 21, 2009 12:53PM
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fat sucks
I can sympathize with the heavy and over weight people in the world but they bring it on them selves. No one tells them to stuff their face with that donut! No one tells them to keep eating until they are fit to butcher. I am one of the few people who had to stand on an Airplane ride from JFK to Orly in Paris because of two fat slobs. They were seated one on each side of me and weighed over 400 pounds each. I was squeezed between them. When I got up to go to the toilet, they raised the arm rests up and the blubber met in the middle where I was sitting. The stewardess was nice enough when explained to why I was standing by the bulkhead to get me a wall seat where they usually sit. I watched them dig into their back pack and bring out more food then Somalia has seen in a year and consume it like Pigs. They slobbered, drooled, spilled drinks on my seat and more. When It came time to land the plane I had to return to my Wet, messy seat. I was sworn at by them both ( and they didnt get on the plane together) elbowed and called names because I had to sit down in MY seat! People that are that FAT and they are are indeed sick. In the head or by means of hormones. But that is still NO excuse to behave like that. Most people who are overweight are rude, obnoxious and consume more then they should all because of their own selfish reason. No they should not be covered by the discrimination laws out there No they should not be considered a minority, and No they should not continue to eat us all out of house and home and in my case...seat.
- oldfoxbob
October 21, 2009 12:55PM
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Doctors do need to think about what they are saying.
I will admit I've been over weight my entire life and while nobody has ever out right hated me because of it. Sure, I've lost the weight here and there over the years, but people still found other things to stare at, make fun of and point and laugh it. If it wasn't my weight it was my acne, height or hair. Guess I'm just not that super tall leggy blonde with the fancy cloths. I'm rather plain and that's okay with me and I'm happy which is all that matters.
Anyway, I was pregnant about two years ago and my stupid OB told me I was considered high risk just because I was more than 50 lbs over weight. She actually told me I shouldn't have gotten pregnant. Sure I was aware of the risks before we got pregnant, but from what my OB was telling me I was going to die or kill my baby because I had some extra weight. I left my first OB appointment and almost made another appointment for an ABORTION. We tried for this baby for about 6 months and my husband talked me out of it of course, but for a DOCTOR to make any person feel that way should be wrong or illegal . I found another OB and of course I got the same story. I already had a 5 year old and I was overweight when I had him and without any problems.
Needless to say I'm a healthy women with excellent blood pressure and perfect cholesterol . I was able to find a local midwife and deleived my baby in my home without any problems. The two OB's I had seen were beyond ticked and I even received nasty phone calls after the birth saying that they will never treat again me due to the level of risk I had taken.
I think doctors assume too much and don't look at the whole person anymore. If you're overweight or smoke that is all they are worried about and if you go in complaining about a rash or some else it's automatically because you either smoke or overweight because it's easy to blame.
Looking back it would be nice to take some sort of legal action on the OB's I had simply because what they did should be illegal. On the other hand I had the most beautiful birth at home and that is the bigger picture for me.
- mikda999
October 21, 2009 2:38PM
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Hate crimes are hate crimes
...whether based on color, religion , sexual orientation or anything else. I don't think we necessarily need to add anything to the laws we have; if anything, we need to simplify them--make hate and prejudice of every kind an aggravating factor in any crime .
And some years ago, disabled people successfully lobbied our governments to pass equal-access laws for them. Is there any possible rationale for denying fat people this equal access?
(For the record, I'm 6'4" and very slim, but I have some close friends who are obese. I use the word "fat" openly because some activists do, proudly. It's just a succinct description of a certain body type, and if they're not ashamed of it, I don't see why I should be.)
- jochanaan
October 21, 2009 3:42PM
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America is unhealthy aka Fat
This is well known. I agree that many "fat" people need to get out and exercise and eat healthier.
However, if someone is getting beat up in school or anywhere else because they are "fat" then that is a problem. If it's verbal harassment that is causing them to commit suicide or causing them mental torment is wrong.
Think of it for race or any other common discrimination ...
Move out of my way N***er. I have been punched, I have had beer thrown in my face all because I was a "cracker". I have had people attack me on the train because I was a "Fag".
Where's the difference in the discrimination. It is a " hate crime ".
- ttut21
October 21, 2009 5:13PM
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Open Source
I think government should not be the last entity to govern the concept of " hate crimes ". I am not sure we have the same legal construct here in nl, but we do have strong laws against discrimination . I think government cannot be fully trusted to govern sole authority on this - I think that any group of people feel they should be considered for this they should get organized and sue for special status.
I don't mind stuff like "anti psoriasis hate crimes" and all that. As for fat people - I'd like an objective test that can show the world "this person is fat beyond his or her control" - i.e. obesity not emerging from a moral flaw, but from a psychological or endocrynal cause. I want to make that distinction. If someone is fat because of lifestyle choices I WILL discriminate, just as I would discriminate if someone had like a 100 piercings, or a really foul BO.
- Khannea Suntzu
October 22, 2009 12:56AM
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Fat comment
Any person suffering hateful treatment of any type by others, including the obese must be protected by law . As to conviction of an obesity offender under the hate crime laws, each case should be based upon cause & severity of the offense(s). Acts of obesity prejudice should be considered a “hate crime” when there are those purposely directing & executing hateful undertakings against the broader girthed.
Chances are many offenders targeting “fat” people will eventually experience lack of control over their own weight gain , whether by behavior or heredity. There are many “fat” people with absolutely no control over their weight , no matter their efforts to manage the affliction.
Aside from behavior or heredity, realize that many less financially solvent families have no choice but to eat cheaper high carbohydrate foods, lacking in nutrition, of which increases the probability of obesity. The “head of household”, more likely than not, is the only family provider, resulting in depression which often plays a role in their obesity, as compared to their children .
Categorizing “fat” people as “bringing it on themselves” is, for the most part, totally ignorant, and hateful within its self. I am not discounting the fact that there are those making bad choices, however committing hatred acts against more ample people is as comparably wrong as any other “hate crime”.
Being borne of a long lineage of short obese women on my father’s side of my family, I began my life as the “Michelin Baby” & struggled throughout my life to literally shed that label (and weight). I have never been an overeater or a bad food (i.e., fast food , sweets) choice person.
I was treated extremely horrible by “un-fat” people for uncountable numbers of years. I never bonded with anyone I could call a friend and, although I have lost weight, due to my past treatment, I still haven’t done so to this day, due to my past treatment. Obesity hate crimes hurt forever.
It majorly pisses me off that, after my recent (medically necessary assisted) weight loss, I am treated more kindly & respectful, henceforth, my devout support for rational & responsible “hate” crime legislation to protect the obese. Although I have lost weight, I still see, feel & live the former me in my own eyes, as well as the pain reflected in other eyes.
Godspeed
- amassey
October 31, 2009 11:36PM
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Hate Crime is a stupid term.
i believe all violent crime is a hate crime , and to protect some groups or even single them out to protect is trying to say their inferior when this is not the case. We should never judge by who is being attacked but how vicious the attack is. that is the spirit of the law . All people should be protected.
- Blahddrood June 3, 2010 4:35AM
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Not worth the trouble.
Is there a race born being obese? No? Then hate crime should no longer be considered. Yes there should be some laws put in place to help prevent people being denied things just because of their weight . BUT, that does not mean make a hate crime. Hate crimes today are starting to be a little out of control as it is. This would mean you would have to make a hate crime for people too small, too tall, too skinny, etc. I don't have a PH. D, im not taking courses in health , but I do have common sense that once you start sending people to jail or start fineing for calling people fat , then it will get out of control.
- Pjizzil July 28, 2010 6:26PM
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