Concealedgun

Report on Killings & Concealed Gun Permits is Flawed

Opinion by Reason Foundation
(November 18, 2009) in Society / Guns

By Jacob Sullum

In an effort to rebut the idea that allowing law-abiding Americans to carry handguns in public helps prevent crime, the Violence Policy Center has begun compiling a list of homicides committed by people with carry permits. "Concealed handgun permit holders killed eight law enforcement officers and 77 private citizens (including 10 shooters who killed themselves after an attack) during the period May 2007 through October 2009," it says, based on news reports. "Contrary to the false promises of the gun lobby," says VPC Executive Director Josh Sugarmann, "the simple and deadly fact is that state concealed handgun systems are arming cop-killers, mass shooters, and other murderers."

Sugarmann says VPC may be missing some killers who had carry permits because it is relying on press accounts that do not necessarily note that detail. But even if the total number of homicides by permit holders is twice the number tallied by VPC, the rate is remarkably low. Thirty-nine states have "shall issue" permit policies, meaning they allow anyone who meets a set of objective criteria (such as a clean record and completion of firearms training) to carry a gun.

Not all of them report the number of permits they issue, but Florida alone has more than 1.5 million permit holders, so there are several million nationwide. Seventy-five homicides (leaving out the suicides that VPC includes) over a period of more than two years in a population that size does not seem like a lot. Let's say there are a total of 5 million permit holders in the U.S. (a conservative estimate), and let's say the actual number of homicides is 150, or twice the VPC's count. That's roughly 75 a year, or 0.00002 homicide per permit holder.

If you divide the total number of gun homicides in 2006 (12,800) by the entire adult population of the U.S., you get 0.00006, which suggests that permit holders commit homicide at a rate far below average (not terribly surprising, since people with criminal records can't get carry permits).

The other major problem with the VPC's list is that it includes crimes where having a permit to carry a handgun did not make a difference, such as Michael McLendon's shooting spree in Alabama last March. McLendon used rifles to kill 10 people, not a handgun, let alone one for which he had a carry permit. Even when mass murderers use handguns, the notion that they would not dare take them out in public without a carry permit is risible. So it's incorrect to say, as Sugarmann does, that "concealed handgun systems are arming cop-killers, mass shooters, and other murderers."

All a permit does is make it possible to legally carry a handgun in public; when that ability does not matter—whether because the crime does not involve a handgun, does not occur in public, or is committed by someone who leaves home intent on murder—it hardly makes sense to blame the permit. The VPC list also includes an on-duty shooting by a security guard, a murder committed in the killer's home, and a murder by strangulation. If VPC's aim is to show that allowing people to carry handguns in public is a bad policy because it creates new hazards, such examples (unlike, say, a public argument involving a permit holder that ends in a deadly shooting) are irrelevant.

Read the originial story on OpposingViews.com: Data Shows Concealed Gun Permit Holders Kill Cops, Others

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  • Submariner
    LOL

    And you guys always say no one sees the other side.

    Hell, I think Reason Foundation might be reading our threads before posting articles...

    - Submariner November 18, 2009 4:15PM

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    • m46607
      ROFL!

      I think it was a direct retort to the other article. :D

      - m46607US November 18, 2009 5:03PM

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  • Don Earl
    Reason Foundation numbers are poor also

    The Reason Foundation quote of 1.5 million Florida licenses is incorrect. That's the number of total permits issued over a period of time, not the current number. The current number of license holders is 600,000.

    The estimate of 5 million licenses nationwide was picked out of thin air. Florida is plenty big enough to treat as a statistical universe, with a population of 18 million. With 600,000 licenses, the ratio is 1 out of 30.

    With 300 million people in the US, there would be 10 million license holders. If 1 out of 5 states don't require licenses, the number comes to approximately 8 million. That number isn't especially relevant anyhow.

    Go back to Florida as a statistical universe and treat the 600,000 license holders as if they had a city all to themselves. As far as violent crime is concerned, they would be living in the safest place on the face of the earth. The reason isn't hard to understand.

    No other cross section of the population is so rigorously screened and certified to be free of a history of domestic violence, drug addiction , mental illness, a dishonorable military record and violent crime, plus, they are all certified to be documented US citizens.

    If the anti gun crowd were required to meet such high standards, it might even be possible to take them seriously. Considering their ranks have not been culled to eliminate mental instability and drug addiction, it is no mystery why their arguments are so obviously tainted. There is no Darwin effect to eliminate the culls from their ranks.

    The bottom line is I am orders of magnitude more safe among license holders than I am with any other cross section of the population. We're the certified good guys and a vanishingly small number of bad guys ever slip through the net.

    - Don EarlUS November 18, 2009 6:02PM

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    • Submariner
      Nicely put

      if rare form ;)

      If I ever get back to civilization, I would probably own a personal fire-arm and apply for such a permit.

      But I also believe a world without personal fire-arms is a world safer for it. Unfortunately, there's already so damn many of them out there.

      My thing is, many pro-gun platforms act as if an arms race is the only road to peace and safety, and its not. Education reform, Economic reform, and the removal of profiteering from social institutions (War on Poverty, War on Drugs, Military Industrial Complex, Prison Industrial Complex, Health Insurance Industry, Education in general, et cetera) are all much more likely to reduce and prevent crime in the future than going Wild West on ourselves.

      - Submariner November 18, 2009 7:58PM

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      • m46607
        Utopia is Ideal

        In a perfect world, my friend, no one would need arms. Because the world is imperfect, we have to adapt to whatever it throws at us. It's better to have the tools, skills, and preparation than to not have the tools, skills, and preparation - all of which exist because of a world with the capacity to be both nasty and beautiful.

        - m46607US November 19, 2009 12:00AM

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    • MikeS
      Well Said

      Very well said!
      Too bad that appropriate use of statistics won't have any effect on the other side's lies. They will continue to float their inane emotional arguments in order to sway the uninformed.

      Thanks, though for an excellent post.

      - MikeSUS November 19, 2009 12:21AM

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  • wardmama4
    It continues to amaze me

    That it is the law abiding - those who go through every single legal measure possible - who are the targets for the Left. Sort of like Illegal Immigration and of course their new 'agenda' - Healthcare. It is not about common sense, it is not about providing for/protecting any single 'little guy' out there, it is about one thing and one thing only - POWER.

    And that is why Me & Mine have personal guns and always will - to protect and defend our Individual Rights and Freedoms from people who will distort, lie and attempt to take them away - at any chance given.

    The real comparisons for the VPC would be CCLs Gun Killings against Gang Gun Killings and Recidivist Criminal Gun Killings - I bet those numbers would change a whole lot of Americans ideas onto exactly where the ' gun control ' laws need to be directed.

    - wardmama4US November 19, 2009 5:49AM

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