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Religion
Religious Banner Opponent Jessica Ahlquist Stands Tall Despite Threats
By Simon Baker
It amazes me that so much hatred and anger lies just below the surface of many people, and that it takes so little to bring out vile words and actions.
My colleague Rob Boston previously wroteabout Jessica Ahlquist, a 16-year-old high school student who filed suit to have a prayer banner removed from Cranston High School West in Cranston, R.I.
In a 40-page decision issued Jan. 11, a judge dismissed school officials’ claims that Ahlquist, who identifies as an atheist, had no right to challenge the banner. He then went on to explain why this official school prayer, which has been hanging in the gym since 1963, is patently unconstitutional.
Sadly, even though the law is on Ahlquist’s side, some in her community have continuedattacking her viciously. State Rep. Peter Polombo on Jan. 16 called Alhquist “an evil little thing,” a “clapping seal” and a “pawn star” on a talk radio show, according to a report on CranstonPatch.com.
Ahlquist has also been ripped to shreds across the Internet. Among the comments that are repeatable, a Twitter user said “this girl honestly needs to be punched in the face.” An anonymous commenter posted Ahlquist’s home address on the Providence Journal's website.
She even received threats of physical harm and Cranston Police said they are investigating some threats directed at her on the Internet, according to CranstonPatch.
It has gotten so ridiculous that several local florists wouldn’t deliver flowers to Ahlquist’s house.
"We refused the order because we really don't want to cross lines," said Raymond Santilli, owner of Flowers by Santilli, according to reports from WJAR in Cranston and CNN. "If I send flowers there, somebody may get upset with us and retaliate to us.”
Another florist who refused an order for Ahlquist, Marina Plowman of Twins Florist, agreed.
"I just chose not to do it,” she said, according to the WJAR/CNN report. “Nothing personal against her or anybody, it was a choice that I made. It was my right to do that, so I did.”
For her part, Ahlquist has displayed remarkable poise and courage.
"Even if lots of kids in school hate you, even if there's nasty comments on the Internet, it's important to stand up for something you believe in," Ahlquist said, according to CranstonPatch. "I could have said nothing but I did what I believe in and I'm glad I did what I did. I've had to deal with a lot of harassment and negative flak from people who disagree with my views and opinions, but it's all worth it."
There’s clearly a lesson here. I spoke recently by phone with someone who identified himself as a member of the Tea Party. It was pretty obvious that he and I didn’t agree and we were firm in our opposing viewpoints.
The conversation wasn’t very productive, but I listened to what he had to say and I responded. I didn’t curse. He didn’t curse. At the end, he even thanked me for being civil and told me to have a nice day. I wished him the same.
Disagreements are fine and, in fact, should be encouraged in a democracy. But there’s absolutely no reason we can’t remain calm and civil. For people to act the way they have toward Ahlquist, who isn’t even legally an adult, is both shocking and disgusting. There is no excuse for it.
Ahlquist’s story reminds me of a sign I saw at the Stephen Colbert/Jon Stewart “Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear” in Washington, DC in October 2010.
“I may disagree with you,” the sign said, “but I’m pretty sure you’re not Hitler.”
That sign is something we should all keep in mind. You can disagree with Jessica Ahlquist and what she stands for, but it’s safe to say she’s not Hitler. A little perspective would do some people a lot of good.
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Comments
... And this is why I tend to
... And this is why I tend to keep my head down and my mouth shut...
Jesusfollower: This girl does
Jesusfollower: This girl does not exhibit maturity and forethought? She is more mature than most 50 year olds! You just hate that she is fighting against a theocracy. You hate that she has stepped up for our Constitution's prohibitions on the government endorsing and promoting religion. Look, you can promote religion all you want but you don't have the right to use the government to do it. Sorry, you don't.
Jerome McCollom
I think what Jessica Ahlquist
I think what Jessica Ahlquist did totally lacks maturity and forethought - she will have to answer for her actions at some point and it may come in the form of her "Christian kiddos" - ahh, the bitter irony! Our constitution does not provide for the separation of church and state. I can't believe as much as this issue has been debated that any adult exists without this knowledge. This is all I will write on this issue - Thomas Jefferson, Danbury Baptists, 1947 SCOTUS opinion legislating from the bench. Mr. Fowler, Please read whatever you choose and I'll do the same. America is "still" a Christian nation, like it or not. Mr. Settles, I totally agree with you on disbarring bloated judges that get away with changing legislation. Mr. Collazo, You made a curious statement. Have you visited some of our wonderful "government institutions" in Washington D.C.? I certainly hope everyone taking the opportunity to comment here has a splendid day in this beautiful Republic I like to call - America.
@Jesus Follower: Since there
@Jesus Follower:
Since there are no gods we are all technically godless.
Godlessness is not something that one should be afraid of embracing.
All the beauty in the world, all of the moral people, and all that brings you joy in life exists despite the lack of gods.
This awe inspiring universe is exactly the type of universe one would expect to see if there were no gods.
Everything in it is governed by natural forces meaning there is no god intentionally causing floods and setting off earthquakes when he or she feels like it.
Living in a godless universe is what allows us to make predictions about nature and use our knowledge of its functionality and limitations to protect and improve the lives of future generations.
Godlessness is the freedom to make positive changes in the world.
Chuck
Which constitution are you
Which constitution are you referring to? The one that governs the US. states that congress can not prohibit or endorse a religion, and the 14th amendment applies it to the state and local government. The banner was government speech, since it was owned by the school, displayed by the school, and shown on school property. Also, the banner had no secular value, as demonstrated by the meetings to keep it or lose it. The people defending the banner continually used sectarian arguments. I don't see how you can justify it in the context of the first and 14th amendments.
@jesusfollower...You call
@jesusfollower...You call bringing a suit to stop violating the United States Constitution immature, you are an idiot.
Chuck
I certainly have visited the
I certainly have visited the government institutions in our nations capital, recently in fact. I am aware of the inscriptions found in several buildings and the fact that technically they are unconstitutional, as is the term "In God We Trust" on currency. What I find disturbing but not very surprising is that christians such as yourself would condone such ignorant behavior from your fellow believers when someone exercises an opposing point of view and at the same time claim to be fervent supporters of democracy and free speech. It's very hypocritical to supposedly support the ideals that this country were founded upon (and no, they are not christian values, they are secular) and simultaneously think that she "had it coming" when belligerent morons threaten a young girl.
This is why I'm am very glad to see that religion as a whole is on a steady decline and scheduled for extinction in the future. Perhaps one day our species will outgrow it's infantile desire to cling to bronze-age superstitious nonsense instead of critical reasoning skills.
Oh give me a break. Just
Oh give me a break. Just because some Christians are bible thumping psychos doesn't mean we're all like that. I'm ashamed of Christians who try to force my religion on other people. And I hate to burst your bubble but religion has been around since the begining of our race and it isn't going anywhere, so why don't you just do what I do? Live and let live.
I never accused ALL
I never accused ALL christians of this type of behavior. I was referencing those that do display this level of ignorance. Undoubtedly there is a spectrum of views/behaviors within any group.
As for religion not going anywhere, really? Perhaps you should read some history books. Religion in the world today is a shadow of what it once was. There was a time (not long ago) that the church WAS the ruling authority and to defy them was a death sentence. Thankfully, we've evolved past that type of behavior (some of us anyway) due in no small part to the enlightenment period in Europe and the subsequent creation of the world's first democracy (the U.S.) which has a secular government. The idea behind the secular government was the first of it's kind in the world and laid the foundation for a steady decline in religion's influence over the population. You only need to look at the history of this country to see that battle unfold as it did in the schools as far back as the Scopes Monkey Trial (1925) to the Kitzmiller v. Dover case which was heard by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2005 (which they got right).
Religion is on a (albeit slow) death march. There will be a time in the (distant) future where kids will read about how people used to have silly superstitious beliefs concerning jewish zombies the same way we do today about the Greek myths.
Please explain what makes us
Please explain what makes us a Christian nation, and what exactly that entails. Bonus points if you can account for the fact that the only references to religion in the Constitution are negative.
I'd also be interested in any
I'd also be interested in any replies you get to this question? I have lots of material, including quotations from the founding fathers, that say otherwise. I wonder why no christians seem to be aware of these? Willful ignorance, perhaps?
Separation of church and
Separation of church and state has been the law for a very long time. Deal with it.
Out constitution does provide
Out constitution does provide for separation of church and state, O,ly you theists promote the lie that it does not.
Thomas Jefferson was one of the main promoters of this separation. But your religion was founded upon lies, continues to lie and attracts liars and the gullible.
The USA is NOT a christian nation. That's another lie you tell. Is there nothing too outrageous an untruth for you? No, I can tell there is not.
Do this, if you dare. Look up Krishna, Horus, Attis, and Mithra. Learn where the jesus myth was stolen.
Learn the truth about your own religion and start thinking for yourself. Yes, it is bothersome at first, but "the truth shall set you free".
Most of the problems of the world are, and always have been, caused by religion. For example, Northern Ireland, the Middle East, 9/11, gay bashing, and family planning clinic bombing in the USA. Then there were the crusades, the inquisition, witch burnings, the suppression of women, and the dark ages. Get the idea?
Humanity will never truly be free until the black yoke of religion is lifted by the clear light of truth and rational thinking.
Hey, come on now. If you're
Hey, come on now. If you're not Christian that's fine but please don't say my religion is based on lies. That's your opinion, not fact.
This is supposed to be an article about fair treatment and upholding the law. Don't turn it into your religion hating soapbox. It's not necessary and it's uncalled for.
It not opinion, it is fact
It not opinion, it is fact and I can prove every word. What can you prove is true about your religion? Did you look up Krishna, Horus, Attis, and Mithra as I suggested? Are you aware there is not one contemporary account of any jesus? The first mention he gets is in the gospel of Mark, written decades after the "events".
You turned it into a hate-filled diatribe against a girl far smarter and more mature than you. Now you're whining the usual christian "persecution" line. Religion is the worst scam ever inflicted upon mankind and deserves all the contempt, derision, and disdain it receives.
FYI, separation of church and state is a fact. I know you theists would love to make it not true, but facts have an unpleasant aspect. They remain facts no matter how much you dislike them.
Unlike the liars of religion, I can prove every word. Tell me what you don't believe is true and I will offer proof. Or are you going to do nothing but whine and bitch?
Excuse me, but when id I say
Excuse me, but when id I say I was against this girl? I agree with her 100%. I'm Christian, but I'm also logical and I believe everyone should be able to believe what they want. Maybe you should try actually reading all my posts. I know there is separation of church and state. The only one whining and bitching in this conversation is you.
Factually speaking, your
Factually speaking, your religion, as it is currently practiced is based entirely on lies. Did you know that there was no devil in the Bible until the 1400's? Of course you didn't. Even Genesis proves that the God of Adam and Eve lied. Either deal with it and rise above it or don't deal with it and be just another right wing fool that doesn't fact check (or in this case, myth-check).
In my experience it is non-Christians (outside of the Jesuits) that tend to know more about Christianity than the run of the mill Christian does. That is the truly sad part, so don't buy into the propaganda, just practice your religion and leave the rest of us (Pagan, Jew, Atheist, Muslim, Buddhist, et al) to practice our belief/non-belief without interference as you wish to practice your religion without our interference.
Remember that your right to push your religion ends at my right to say NOT ON MY DIME OR MY TIME.
The insanity principle is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results. The far right, the far left, vegans, creationists and other extremists believe in the insanity principle, religiously.
Can you prove the devil
Can you prove the devil statement? About him not existing. I'm intrigued and I'm not Christian I just want to know where to get confirmation for that fact.
Did you even READ my post you
Did you even READ my post you replied to? Apparently not. So read it and then reply properly.
We have read all of your
We have read all of your posts and they are not at all difficult to understand. You are a christian and resent any criticism or questioning of your faith.
You haven't attempted to prove than any response to your posts have been in error in any respect. You've complained, attempted distractions and evasions, but not one iota of proof that anything said was not the truth.
If you think you're not getting any respect, perhaps it's because you have not earned any.
Songbird was actually
Songbird was actually agreeing that the banner supporters were wrong and behaved badly. What are you jumping down his/her throat for?
Because he's exactly like
Because he's exactly like those Christian extremists. He can't stand the fact that not everyone has the same beliefs as him. Which is kind of ironic when you think about it.
But seriously, as much as I appreciate your defense of me, the best thing to do is just ignore people like himj. They hear what they wanna hear; or in this case, read.
Because she is not debating
Because she is not debating but preaching and whining because her religion is being exposed as the sham it is. If her faith is so weak it cannot stand criticism and the truth, perhaps she should examine the foundations of her beliefs.
Truth, freedom of speech, and rational thinking are fatal to any religion. That's why all religions work to suppress those cornerstomns of freedom.
I'm sorry, but if anyone is
I'm sorry, but if anyone is preaching and whining here, it's you, James. You haven't put forward many facts on your side and certainly haven't made any effort to engage in productive conversation. I know what you're referencing, but that's because I've done the research myself. To someone who's just chiming in on a comment thread, it looks like you're just being a dick because you make a few half-assed remarks about very in-depth subject and then two or three posts lambasting people who don't immediately renounce their religion and agree with you.
"Hippy, do me a favor: Stay Off My Side." --The Abyss
She was agreeing with you,
She was agreeing with you, she said she agreed with Ms Ahlquist and supported the separation of church and state, AND SHE DENOUNCED THE PEOPLE WHO WERE ATTACKING AHLQUIST. And she was perfectly polite about it. You're just being an ass, and as an atheist I'm as embarrassed by your behaviour as she is embarrassed by those Christian fundies. You're acting a lot like them.
(Don't take it personally, I'm just exercising my liberty to tell others what they don't want to hear...)
You're a liar. She was NOT
You're a liar. She was NOT polite. She whined about being told that her religion was founded upon lies. She complained and continued to preach.
I doubt that you're an atheist. I don;t doubt that you're an arrogant fool that likes to say things on the internet that you would never say in person.
Yes, I am telling you what you don;t want to hear. It's called "truth".
Where did I lie, James? Did
Where did I lie, James? Did she not agree with you about Ahlquist, the ignorance of the banner's supporters and the separation of Church and State?
You're the one who accused her of a "hate filled tirade" against Ahlquist when she was actually supporting the girl! So what does that make you?
I'm sorry if religious people have treated you badly (been there myself on occasion) but I don't think becoming like them and jumping all over someone just because they don't believe as you do is very helpful.
By the way, I wouldn't hesitate to say that to you in person but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be so quick to call me a liar to my face...rotflmfao
If you've read my posts then
If you've read my posts then why do you continually put words in my mouth? And I am done trying to debate something I believe in 100%. I don't care what "proof" you think you have. It's no more "proof" than the "proof" moon landing consperacy theorists have provided. I don't care what religion anyone is. I have friends who are wicca, athiest and several others.
If anyone feels they have anything to "prove" it's you. Obviously you've had a bad experience with some Christians who were massive jerks and that saddens me. You can't believe a Christian can be a good person. Fine. But I'm not going to go round and round with someone who obviously hates a group so much that they can't see straight. Goodbye.
What would you like me to
What would you like me to prove? I have never knowingly said anything that is not true. I can absolutely prove every word I have said on this site.
Yes, I have had bad experiences with most theists, not only christians I have met. Mostly christians because that is the group I have been exposed to the most.
In my entire life, every time I have been lied to, cheated, threatened, taken advantage of, or otherwise treated badly, it has been by "good christians".
I know there are decent, trustworthy, loyal christians. I have some for friends. But the preponderance of my experience has been they should be treated with caution until they prove other wise.
If you had consistently been treated and misused by redheads, would you be wary of people with red hair, even if you had a couple of friends that were redheads?
Maybe you don;t believe in going with experience and the percentages. I do.
Naturally, you're going to run because you cannot prove, as I asked, that anything I have said is not true. No wonder you're a theist, hiding from the truth is the foundation of your life.
Love thy neighbor... unless
Love thy neighbor... unless they have a different religious view from you.
Right! Especially if they
Right! Especially if they have no religion at all and are unafraid to say that they don't. :D
When I have been most
When I have been most viciously attacked, either verbally or even physically, it has always been by "good christians" and it has always been religiously motivated.
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." Steven Weinberg
"Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions." Blaise Pascal
I am not a bit surprised that standing up for the law and religious freedom, including freedom from religion has brought these vicious attacks. It's the most common way theists have of persecuting anyone that dares disagree with them. When they have no facts or logic on their side, what do they have left? Vicious attacks.
You really should check
You really should check yourself Skippy, with all this name calling, ranting and hate filled venom, someone is liable to think you are a religious man instead of the loving, tolerant, liberal atheist! ROFL! And BTW, we all know how to go on Google and find quotes to fit our purpose, most of us express our own thoughts though.
On another note..."viciously attacked, either verbally or even physically"...okay pumpkin, now who is lying? From your posts, I can tell that IF you were attacked (LOL) you were not an innocent bystander and I'm 100% sure you are assuming your "attacker" was Christian. What a loser! Go ahead and say what you want, I know I hit a nerve and I rarely go back and check posts. Besides, you are an irrelevant biological mass, right? No soul, no purpose, no meaning.
Tell me, what have I said
Tell me, what have I said that is not true? When have I engaged in "name-calling, ranting, and hate filled venom?" All I have done is stated the truth. If you don;t like it, you can always demand that the truth be changed to show what you want it to show.
BTW, calling me "Skippy" is a deliberate insult. So who's doing the name-calling? You'd never do that to my face, would you?
When did I go on Google to find quotes? FYI, I don't use Google for anything. I don't like their arrogant attitude any more than I like yours.
I am not lying and I can send you examples of where I have been cursed and threatened on the internet and via post mail for things I have said. The reason I say my attackers were christian is they called me "a filthy atheist bastard and we're going to teach you the power of christ in our fists."
This sort of thing has happened more than once. You might be interested to know that none of these brave "fighters for christ" have ever been alone. They always had to try it in groups. They were as brave as you are hiding behind your computer to toss out insults you would never dare say in person.
YOu final remarks show that you are another christian religious reich person. FYI, I have great purpose in my life. One is exposing people like you for the arrogant fools that you are. That gives meaning to being on here and responding to posts like yours.
You have amply demonstrated your personal ignorance, and lack of intellectual, ethical, and physical courage. Thank you for confirming that for me.
The prayer wasn't Christian
The prayer wasn't Christian and could have been easily modified to take out religious references.
Germany had wars on which version of the Lord's prayer was to be used.
It doesn't matter if it was
It doesn't matter if it was Christian or not. It was theist. Any reference to a God or higher power is a religious prayer.
Submitted by MellowGuy on Jan
Submitted by MellowGuy on Jan 23, 2012.
"The prayer wasn't Christian and could have been easily modified to take out religious references."
According the news stories I've read that option was presented to the school board BEFORE the suit was brought. They refused. (...thus proving that the intent of the banner really was religious and dooming their case.)
Excellent point. Somehow I
Excellent point. Somehow I missed that option was offered. The refusal of the school board demonstrates christian arrogance and the mean-spirited uncooperative stance they so often take.
Well done!
"Heavenly Father" is an
"Heavenly Father" is an epithet for god exclusive to Christians, and the benediction "Amen" is likewise recognizably Christian. I agree, it could easily be rewritten as an exhortation to behave virtuously without the slightest of religious overtones.
The prayer wasn't christian?
The prayer wasn't christian? LMAO! Where have you been? Did you read the same banner the rest of the world did? Do you think it was Muslim or Buddhist?
You are right about wars being fought over nonsensical points of theology. But then, what point of theology isn't nonsense?