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Religion
Camp Pendleton Cross Does Not Honor Non-Christian Fallen Marines
By Simon Brown
The United States military is highly diverse. According to a 2010 analysis, many different Christian denominations are represented in the ranks, but some personnel are Humanist, Jewish, Muslim, Pagan or followers of other traditions. One survey found that as many as 25 percent cited no religious preference at all.
Thus, when a group of marines at Camp Pendleton erected a large cross on their California base as an unofficial memorial to soldiers wounded or killed in combat, they left out a lot of their comrades. A cross may honor Christian service personnel who died, but it doesn’t include those of other faiths and those who follow no spiritual path at all.
When Americans United found out about the religious symbol, we, along with the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers, sent a letter to military officials raising constitutional issues.
“While we understand and sympathize with these soldiers’ desire to memorialize fallen comrades, the erection of a permanent Christian cross on government property raises serious constitutional concerns,” the letter said. “Even assuming that the soldiers who erected the cross display were off-duty or no longer active military, allowing a prominent display of a large cross to remain on government property will still communicate to the service members on the base that Camp Pendleton endorses the cross’s Christian message.”
Marine Corps lawyers are still deciding how to respond to the complaints, and a Camp Pendleton spokeswoman has said that it is unclear when a decision will be reached, according to an article in the North County Times (Escondido, Calif.).
As usual, though, some people just don’t get it.
According to the North County Times, former Navy chaplain Scott Radetski, who helped erect the cross, said, “I would be bummed [if it's removed]. It was a gift for the troops…and I think it's an overreaction on the part of those who are opposed.” (He also said he believes the original group that put up the cross received permission from Camp Pendleton officials.)
It is most certainly not an overreaction. Sectarian symbols should not be erected on government property in a way that suggests one faith has special government approval.
There is no reason that service personnel can’t do something to memorialize dead and wounded friends, but there is also no reason that they can’t find a way to do it without using a sectarian symbol that leaves out a lot of their comrades.
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Comments
"Congress shall make no law
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE thereof"
I really don't see where it says any where in that statement "Separation of Church and State". What it does say is that the government shall not force you to follow one religion over another.
The cross is a MEMORIAL to fallen brothers. You want others to respect your veiws yet you refuse to give the same respect to the people who give you the right to your views. If anyone is forcing their religion or lack of it on others it is you. If you haven't figured it out, we as a nation are finally a point where we are tired of your liberal agenda being shoved down our throats.
Now chaplain Scott, they're
Now chaplain Scott, they're not over reacting. Don't you see that others are being forced to accept your religion against their will? They must adhere to its tenets or be punished. They must bow to your god or be put to death. This symbol on government property means that our government has chosen christianity as the official religion and those non-believers that haven't been put to death yet will retain second class status until they are. They will not be able to work, vote, own homes, start families or even enlist in the service. Its time for you to get over being bummed and feel their pain.
I find the "doesn't honor everyone" argument to be nothing more than a case of crocodile tears. We have Buffalo soldier and Tuskegee airmen memorials on government property that only honor black soldiers and airmen, but you will never hear this argument used against those memorials, and for good reason. It would be a stupid one. Likewise, did the Vietnam memorial honor all service members that have made a sacrifice for our nation? No, but we didn't tear it down. Instead, we build other monuments to honor those that have sacrificed, but weren't represented by the wall.
On a related note, the only reason this cross would "suggest" a preference towards christianity is because some people want another arrow in their quiver. Once another groups chooses to do the same, they will be short another arrow and will only be left with the preference of religion over non-religion. However, that one can be taken away as well with the cross still standing.
A note to these marines, put the cross on a wheeled cart to remove the permanence problem and bring a star of David and something representing atheist marines with you when you wheel it up there. Hopefully the Marine Corps will be able to save some money on tissues and therapy for those that feel left out by your actions.
I don't follow anyone, because those that appear to be on the same path usually end up just getting in my way.
I disagree Method - Being
I disagree Method - Being neutral does not embrace what makes our country amazing. Why can't we respect each other’s differences instead of tearing everything down and making it non-existent? It makes no sense to me. Making everything neutral makes us boring! We have vast diversities and we should be proud and respectfully display them all! Jason, I ask you to drop this fight. I have been fortunate, as a Marine wife, to go to this spot. It is overwhelmingly moving there. The items that Marines have carried up this very difficult trail to leave in remembrance in hopes to find some sort of personal peace is nothing less than amazing. It's not about Christianity; it's purely a place to remember their fallen brothers. To me personally, a cross is not about Christianity, it is about suffering and loss for not backing down from your commitment. In this case, the suffering and loss for the United States of America. Many people in the world have suffered upon a cross long before Jesus Christ was nailed to one. I appreciate your organization and understand the need for it. I don’t think our founding Fathers wanted everyone’s beliefs to be silenced though, they are to be embraced. All these different sides trying to tear each other down, because they are offended rather than respecting each other, just makes us ugly. And just a side note …if you were dropped somewhere in the 120,000 acres of Camp Pendleton and asked to find this cross it would be unlikely that you would ever find it. ‘Camp Horno’ where the cross resides is merely a blip on this enormous base. Driving through base I look for the cross…and usually miss it, even having been there, because it is that difficult to spot…and that’s driving a forced 25 mph.
When the Marine Corps has on
When the Marine Corps has on its base a giant symbol of a particular religion, it implicitly establishes that religion and its members as having preferred status. It renders anyone not a member of that creed into a second-class citizen. That's not diversity, that's preferential treatment and Christian privilege.
You've directed your request
You've directed your request to the wrong person. Ask those who posted the cross to come take it elsewhere and put in its place a flag or a plaque or other non-sectarian symbol. The pilgrimages can continue and the honor and respect will truly be for everyone. Maybe someone will leave a cross, or star of david, or a qu'ran, and all that would be fine. As it stands, there is a large, permanent religious symbol on federal land causing this division, and I didn't post the cross so the division is not my fault. That cross won't be "silenced" if it is moved to private land, and a memorial can still be in that location so long as it does not privilege one religion over others.
Absolute truth here.
Absolute truth here. "Squatter's Rights" don't rule here. Just because the cross is up doesn't mean it should be. And every day it stays up, the Marines are letting the violation get worse. The default is to remove it or cover it until it's deemed to be legal, which can't happen within existing law. If they had carried that cross up the hill, erected it, and done a fire-and-brimstone Christian memorial service **and then taken that cross home with them**, we wouldn't be having this issue. If they had carried and posted a flag or a red-white-and-blue eagle statue, this would be a relatively simple matter to get the statue approved. If this were a crescent-and-star, the Marines would have sent a crew to take it down overnight and **some** Christians would be screaming about Muslims taking over America a month after it was taken down.
Jason, Quit spewing your
Jason, Quit spewing your hatred for Christianity. You won't answer my questions on your page or other pages so please respond to me here. You might want to check this story out before you run your mouth about the cross doesn't belong there due to the separation of church and state argument. The cross was erected as a memorial not as a religious symbol as you understand it. Look at the facts, It was carried up the hill by Marines to memorialize their fallen brothers. The original cross was put up in 2003 and no one complained until last year when a new one was erected and the story hit the newspapers for all the liberal Christian haters to read. Then and only then was it reported as a problem, by people like you who have never set foot on Camp Pendelton, Camp Horno or been to the top of Microwave which is the only way to see it.
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.npr.org%2Ftemplates%2Fstory%2Fstory.php%3FstoryId%3D126370251&h=DAQGou3K3
You are claiming to be Marine
You are claiming to be Marine General James Mattis, commander of US Central Command, and I simply don't believe you. You are bouncing around social media whining for attention like a child. If you are hiding behind someone else's identity, then you are a troll, and I ignore you because you are unworthy of my time. If you are Gen James Mattis, then by all means, contact me at MAAF through official channels like a professional.
Well Jason, I was one of the
Well Jason, I was one of the people that contacted you by phone and for 10 minutes you wouldn't answer any of my questions. You want to rid the United States of religion, which is against my constitutional rights. The cross on Camp Pendelton does not affect you or anyone you personally know. You are a sad individual.
I'll ask you one more time, why does the fact that someone has faith in a religion bother you so much. The fact that you don't believe doesn't bother me, as a matter of fact I truly hope for you that your notion that there is no afterlife and you just become worm food is correct.
So since you wouldn't answer my question while I had you on the phone as you offered Jimmy Mattis, how about you answer it now.
How would this chaplain
How would this chaplain respond if it was an Islamic symbol on the top of the hill? Would he be fine with it? Of course not, those on the Christian rightwing never are if another religion gets represented on public property. Even if it is an open forum.
Jerome McCollom
Would the chaplain be fine
Would the chaplain be fine with it? Why not find out instead of supposing? Should he be fine with it? If the answer is yes, then maybe these atheists should put up an islamic symbol to shut all of them up AND heal the pain of those left out that they're so concerned about.
I don't follow anyone, because those that appear to be on the same path usually end up just getting in my way.
Just witness them getting the
Just witness them getting the vapors over on the other article about the "pagan" worship center. Hey guys? The way you feel about that, is the way we feel about your everything. The only way to be inclusive of all and respect everyone's rights is to maintain proper and neutral separation. It's not just the law, it's also a good idea.