Chemo

Refusing Chemo isn't Child Abuse, it's Colleen Hauser's Right

Opinion by Suzanne Venker
(May 26, 2009) in Religion / Religion in Society
Cancer is complicated. While I don’t have any personal experience with it, I do know this much: Some cancers are more surmountable than others, and chemotherapy isn’t pretty.

The type of cancer Daniel Hauser has -- Hodgkin’s lymphoma -- is a cancer that’s surmountable. So surmountable, in fact, that the survival rate is generally 90% or higher when it’s detected in the early stages, making it one of the most curable forms of cancer. Those are some damn good odds, if you ask me; so if one of my children had the disease, there’s no question he or she would undergo treatment. But, then, I don’t have an internal conflict between God and science.

Daniel Hauser is thirteen-years-old. He and his mother, Colleen Hauser, recently returned to Minnesota after fleeing from court-ordered cancer treatment. According to media reports, the Hausers ceased treatment for Daniel after one chemotherapy session in January, citing religious and other objections. They have turned to alternative treatments instead. For example, the family joined the National Nemenhah movement, a native American religious group that supports natural healing methods. Anthony Hauser, Daniel’s father, does not seem worried about his wife and son’s whereabouts. He has hinted that he knows where they might be and assumes his wife has found a suitable alternative form of treatment.

I couldn’t help but notice in the reports that the Hausers’ family farm is near Sleepy Eye, Minnesota, the town Pa Ingalls of Little House on the Prarie used to frequent. In those days, families had no option but to depend on the natural healing methods of Native American tribes. Doc Baker would have been of little help back then, which makes me think about medical progress in general. It’s miraculous that we have the ability to save lives today when a hundred years ago people under the same circumstances would have died. But the fact remains that there are people among us who prefer to live life the old-fashioned way. The very old-fashioned way. Like the Amish, the Hausers want the freedom to live life in its natural state. And there’s nothing natural about chemotherapy.

Still, Daniel is a minor. And in the same way teenagers are too young to “choose” abortion without parental consent, I personally believe Daniel is too young to make this decision. I wish I could say the law is intervening simply because Daniel’s cancer is curable, but I don’t think that’s the case. According to a comment by “AG” on CNN.com, intervention occurs at other times as well.

So if you and your child make a decision it is Child Abuse…But what do you call it when the courts rush in and forcefully take a child from their parents using Sheriff’s and Court orders? One of my closest friends had this happen…they forced blood transfusions on him, against his wishes-via a court order…threatened to sedate him if he fought against it…, and the state took custody of the child. Guess what? He died anyway despite the doctors best efforts! These doctors need to get rid of their God complex and let families make reasonable decisions about their medical treatment.

In the case above, AG’s friend was “doomed from the beginning” -- yet the law still intervened. While I understand the desire to hold a parent responsible for allowing their child to die when he clearly doesn’t have to, forcing treatment on someone who’s “doomed” is a whole different matter altogether. In fact I just went through something similar with my father last year. He was 85 years old and ready to die. Simply put, he was finished living – and made this very clear to me on numerous occasions. When I tried to convey this to his doctor, who wanted my father to take test after test in an attempt to “cure” him, he told me it wasn’t true my father wanted to die. The arrogance was astounding; apparently many doctors do have a God complex.

The bottom line is this: Death is complicated, and how we choose to do it should be our own business. Would I make an exception in Daniel’s case? I want to say yes. I want to say that since this case is so obvious, since Daniel will obviously live if he undergoes chemotherapy and die if he doesn’t, his parents should be forced by law to seek treatment for him. On the other hand, Daniel went through one round of chemotherapy and suffered enormously. He doesn’t want to do it. Whether he would feel otherwise if he had different parents is beside the point. Are his parents obligated to overrule what their son says he wants -- especially when what he says he wants is a direct result of their having raised him a certain way? I don’t know. But I do think they’re entitled as a family to seek whatever form of treatment they believe is best.

To suggest Mr. and Mrs. Hauser are abusing their son because they think differently from the masses strikes me as wrong. It’s hard to stand by when people do things we don’t agree with, but forcing someone to live when he doesn’t want to go through the hell it requires to remain alive, or when he believes natural healing methods will work – and how do we know they won’t? – isn’t right either. It’s a tough call any way you look at it, but my gut tells me there are some things in life we just have to stay out of. Perhaps Daniel’s case is one.

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • gma
    The golden rule

    The golden rule, the basis of all morality, is part of our evolutionary history, and states that you should not do to other what you don't want done to yourself.

    In my opinion there are 2 valid reasons you can refuse treatment:

    1. You are terminally ill and treatment MAY only keep you alive a little longer but make you feel horrible during these very few extra days. Many cancer patients face this.

    2. You are terminally ill and will die shortly anyway no matter what treatment they give you but the treatment will financially bankrupt your family. Unfortunately in our immoral healthcare system, many patients face this.

    What is not acceptable is that you invoke any form of superstition to make that decision (and this includes any form of religion ). Religion should not be invoked to keep the brain dead alive (the Terry Schiavo case) or the let you die when a treatment exists that most likely can cure you.

    If the Hauser family had stated that they financially could not afford to pay for this treatment then the discussion should be how society helps pay for this.

    I don't know their financial situation but the mother invoked her superstition to deny a curable treatment for her son and this is immoral.

    No imaginary sky daddy needed to see the immorality of this.

    - gmaUS May 26, 2009 12:37PM

    Reply to this Recommend (3) Icon flag

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • Mateo76
      Can I refuse your opinion?

      What is not acceptable is you telling me what I can and cannot do with my own body and my children . You are not responsible for either. Stop pretending you and the overbearing government (" society ") you support are morally superior to my freedom and ability to parent.

      - Mateo76US May 27, 2009 12:03PM

      Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

      • AutismNewsBeat
        No, you can't

        I'm sorry you feel that way, Mateo, but society has a legitimate interest in protecting children from abuse and neglect. Does a father have a right to smoke crack cocaine with his teenage son? Can a mother pimp our her 10 year old daughter? What about female circumcision , on the kitchen table, with a steak knife?

        Get real. I can't believe this is even up for debate.

        - AutismNewsBeatUS May 27, 2009 1:51PM

        Reply to this Recommend (2) Icon flag

        Thank You for your Comment

        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

        • bagpiper2005
          Oh you did not just mention the "c" word

          If you can circumcise a boy why not a girl? Why the double-standard?

          Of course, it's a medically useless, barbaric procedure for both sexes, so that one should be outlawed.

          - bagpiper2005US May 27, 2009 2:00PM

          Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

          Thank You for your Comment

          We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

          • AutismNewsBeat
            C word

            Thank you for answering your own question ;-)

            - AutismNewsBeatUS May 27, 2009 4:44PM

            Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

            Thank You for your Comment

            We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

        • Mateo76
          Think beyond your society-centric views for a second!

          " society has a legitimate interest in protecting children from abuse and neglect."

          Yes, it does have an interest. Just that the interest can be hijacked when the government sanctions violence to carry out that interest. Society also has a legitimate interest that I work as much as possible. It doesn't mean you have the right to force me to work.

          Ideally, government should only have the right to stop me from physically harming another human being. If a parent forces drug use , or forces sex acts, there is no question there is harm being done. Those things have nothing to do with raising a child. Withholding or providing medical treatment does, just as withholding or providing education , but it's not the same as physical abuse, and shouldn't be grouped with those. The responsibility of creating and caring for another human being affords some privileges that others have no right to take away.

          Look, this is a grey area, but we shouldn't try to involve the corrupt authorities any more than we have to. My ideal way to combat stupid parents is to take away their mandated lifeblood of government and faith-based assistance, and the ignorant, irrational, anti- science genes will naturally be removed from the gene pool. We will truly evolve without big brother making evolve his way. Private charity will assist those truly in need. If it doesn't, then think how that will be different than when you're 80 and you need a new kidney, and no one, not even the government, can or wants to give it to you.

          Imagine a world with no government (aka, no violence). In this denial of treatment situation, private groups could track down the parents and peacefully attempt to influence the family to accept treatment. That would be all they could do. Kinda like a drug intervention. Do you want the state in charge of those?

          - Mateo76US May 27, 2009 3:30PM

          Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

          Thank You for your Comment

          We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

          • AutismNewsBeat
            No question of harm?

            "If a parent forces drug use , or forces sex acts, there is no question there is harm being done."

            But there is a question of harm being done when life saving medical treatment is withheld by the parent? That sounds like a distinction without a difference. If one had to choose between having your child raped, or withholding cancer treatment, most people would choose life.

            - AutismNewsBeatUS May 27, 2009 4:51PM

            Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

            Thank You for your Comment

            We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

            • Cancer Mom
              No question of harm?

              Ok AutismNewsBeat. I am assuming you have not been exposed to cancer or its treatments. So for the record just because the doctors (GODS) tell you it is THE life saving treatment, does not make it SO. My son has the same cancer and the GODS told us the same thing. So we did the GODS chemo and radiation. Guess what? Didn't work, Cancer did not go away. Not CURED! Then the GODS say oops sorry we can call hospice. You do not know what you are talking about. Do research, ask questions, do not remain blind, and do not believe everything the GODS tell you!!!!

              - Cancer MomUS May 28, 2009 12:25PM

              Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

              Thank You for your Comment

              We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

        • zman
          O YES YOU CAN

          You sound like your from Afghanistan get with it.
          The government should do there job and let the people do theres.
          Here in the USA WE HAVE A CHOICE. And we can pick the treatments of our choice.For our self and childern.
          In this case I think the parent are making the wrong choice.But it is there choice.
          We cant let the state take our freedoms from the familes.YOU GO AHEAD AND LET THE STATE TAKE YOURS.LEAVE MY FREEDOMS ALONE.

          - zmanUS May 28, 2009 9:38PM

          Reply to this Recommend (2) Icon flag

          Thank You for your Comment

          We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

      • Cancer Mom
        Can I refuse your opinion?

        I am with you Mateo76. The government should not have the right to intervene in this the most personal of life matters. This mother is not seeking not to treat, just how to treat. Big difference!

        - Cancer MomUS May 28, 2009 12:17PM

        Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

        Thank You for your Comment

        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • Cancer Mom
      The Golden Rule?

      Have you ever had a child with cancer ? Apparently not. The costs do not matter. You would sell everything you have. Since when did it become immoral to choose for yourself. US doctors told my son with the same kind of cancer that he would be dead in a week. Of course that is after they did their chemo and radiation. Went to Mexico and he is still alive today 4 months later, not only that but the cancer is shrinking. If we had followed the God's of Medicine (US doctors) advise and called hospice my son would more than likely be dead. I think a little more research into the matter is justified. And Superstition, no its called GOD.

      - Cancer MomUS May 28, 2009 12:14PM

      Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

      • gma
        Reply

        1. Therapies get approved by the FDA through a sequence of trials: phase 1 is to rule out that new drug kills he patient, phase 2 is to collect evidence of effectiveness, and phase 3 is a double blind study over hundreds to thousands of patients to show that the drug is really effective and to understand possible side effects. Quackery does not survive this rigid process.

        2. As stated earlier, diseases are very complicated. Not all approved drugs work for all patients and sometimes, patients get better unexpectedly or die faster than predicted. That does not mean that a god keeps some patients alive longer and makes some others die sooner. You need to analyze a significantly large set of cases to make conclusions. Unfortunately, most people make conclusions from single events. A classical one is praying. If I pray for something and it happens, I thank whatever god I was praying to. If it does not happen, I either did not pray enough or my god is testing my faith in him/her/it or I do not deserve his/her/its favor yet. But people don't even consider the possibility that no one is listening to their prayers.

        3. Sorry to disappoint you but there is no shred of evidence for any of the gods that mankind has invented. Gods my be comforting but they don't exist (or at least are extremely extremely extremely improbable).

        - gmaUS May 28, 2009 12:58PM

        Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

        Thank You for your Comment

        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

        • Cancer Mom
          FDA

          You must work for them. You are misinformed to think that drugs are tested on thousands before a drug comes to market. Quackery does exist it is called the FDA! Listen, really listen to the warnings of all the possible side effects of the so called super tested drugs on the market and being pumped into our bodies by the GODS of medicine . Pull your head out of the sand man! I was were you are once, but boy when my eyes got opened I was amazed at what I saw. And ashamed that in modern medicine thier is so much greed, corruption, lying to the American people taking place. It is truly a tragic thing. There is no black and white, just as there are good, there is bad, but why is it that we do not have the right of choice? If you or I choose to take willow bark instead of aspirin from a bottle, is that wrong? Why will the insurance company not reimburse you for the willow bark but will for the aspirin? There is so much of a behind the scenes webbing here. Why if I choose to go to Germany or Mexico for a treatment by a medical doctor there (I am talking same treatment) that costs less than in the states, insurance will not pay for it, but will pay when it is done in the states and costs tens of thousands more? I am sorry it doesn't make sense to me. Should I not be able to choose to save my life time medical limits by finding a less expensive way to treat my condition? And if I choose to try infusions of Vit C and Leatril over toxic chemo drugs, should I not have that right? You talk about research, research proves chemo kills, what does the true unbiased research say about laetril and vit c infusions?

          - Cancer MomUS May 28, 2009 1:59PM

          Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

          Thank You for your Comment

          We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

          • gma
            Reply

            Dear Cancer Mom,

            I don't work for the FDA and the FDA does not control pricing. Pricing is set by the pharmaceutical companies. Countries with a national healthcare system can negotiate volume discount deals and get better prices. I agree that the US healthcare system sucks.

            The FDA, its European counterpart EMEA and the international ICH are only concerned with protecting the consumer: (1) is it safe?, (2) is it safe?, (3) is it safe?, (4) is the consumer getting a drug that has a statistical significant benefit (otherwise we pay a lot for little or no gain). The FDA, EMEA and ICH all have similar strict rules.

            Not all countries want to play by these rules and allow less safe drugs with less clear benefit to be sold in their country. Serious drug makers don't want to go that route because they have to redo all trials according to FDA, EMEA or ICH rules anyway to get approved in the US, Western Europe and countries that have accepted ICH rules.

            Since the FDA, EMEA and ICH process are normalized you can get approval in Europe under EMEA and then pretty automatically get approved in the US and any other ICH country.

            Insurance companies can only reimburse drugs that are legal to be sold in the US.

            Bottom line we have a broken healthcare system in the US that has nothing to do with the FDA and that can be very frustrating.

            One last comment: drugs for the terminally ill are tested on hundreds of people but drugs for healthy people are in some cases tested on several thousand people. It all depends on the target patient and what the drug really is and again this is no different under FDA, EMEA or ICH rules.

            Sometimes a patient can join a investigational new drug study program (Phase I, II or III) in which case the drug has not been approved by the FDA yet but is approved for use in a very controlled study.

            Here is how you find out about laetril and vit c infusions. (1) was it FDA approved for commercial use? If YES, the effectiveness and possible side effects must be available on the web (2) if NOT, the drug may still be in clinical trial somewhere (Phase I, II or III) or the clinical trials may have failed to adhere to safety standards and may only be marginally effective or totally ineffective.?

            If a drug fails the FDA, EMEA or ICH process, other countries that do not really care about protecting the consumer may approve it but then I would say that it is not worth the risk. You may hear about the 1 patient that got better but you won't hear about the hundreds or more that died.

            I agree that unless you digg in deep a lot of it does not make sense but remember that the FDA is not concerned about 1 patient but about 300 million potential patients.

            Hope this gave you some better insight.

            - gmaUS May 28, 2009 9:03PM

            Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

            Thank You for your Comment

            We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • PhillyChief
    No right to put minor at risk

    "Still, Daniel is a minor. And in the same way teenagers are too young to “choose” abortion without parental consent, I personally believe Daniel is too young to make this decision."

    That's really all you needed to write. What followed that was pure speculation , with some anecdotal tale as supporting evidence for your speculation. If you've followed the story, you'd know that first there was a court order for tests to see if his lymphoma was beyond the state where chemo or any kind of treatment would matter. It was determined it was not, and that he stood a chance of survival via chemo.

    A minor lacks the faculties and experience to make a sound judgment, which is why parents are entrusted with the responsibility. Forgoing medical treatments based on feelings, tea leaves, religion , or anything comparable puts the minor at risk for dangerous consequences, including death. How can you casually say that's not abuse? How is this different than the case of poor Madeline Neumann? Her mother was recently found guilty of murdering her for forsaking medical treatment in favor of prayer .

    There's no tough call here. You wish to believe in magical cures? Fine, choose them for yourself, but you have no right to choose them for a child.

    YouMadeMeSayIt.blogspot.com

    - PhillyChiefUS May 27, 2009 11:37AM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • slacker
    uh

    am I missing something? His best chance of survival is seeking treatment. Wanting to do it or not shouldn't even enter into the equation, unless he just doesn't want to live. Just because chemo treatment is rough, and going through it might be hell doesn't mean he should simply give up. He's too young to understand the end game here... too young to realize that if the treatment is successful, his hair will grow back, his wounds will heal, and he will feel better.

    - slackerUS May 27, 2009 11:38AM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • stemcellblogger
      yes, you are missing something

      Did you know that McGill Cancer Centre did 6 chemotherapy trials…

      and 58 of the 79 chemo doctors involved with the trials would refuse to be in all the trials because “they were unacceptable due to the ineffectiveness of chemotherapy & its unacceptably high degree of toxicity.”

      64 of the 79 chemo doctors involved with the trials would refuse to be in any trial containing Cisplatin – a common chemo drug.

      The treatment can be physically exhausting for the patient. Current chemotherapeutic techniques have a range of side effects mainly affecting the fast-dividing cells of the body. Important common side-effects include (dependent on the agent):

      * Pain
      * Nausea and vomiting
      * Diarrhea or constipation
      * Anemia
      * Malnutrition
      * Hair loss
      * Memory loss
      * Depression of the immune system, hence (potentially lethal) infections and sepsis
      * Weight loss or gain
      * Hemorrhage
      * Secondary neoplasms
      * Cardiotoxicity
      * Hepatotoxicity
      * Nephrotoxicity
      * Ototoxicity
      to name a few

      http://repairstemcell.wordpress.com

      - stemcellbloggerUS May 27, 2009 5:27PM

      Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

      • slacker
        no

        I didn't know that. But I know that chemotherapy saved my cousin's life. Of course it's toxic, that's what kills the cancer .

        - slackerUS May 28, 2009 8:49AM

        Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

        Thank You for your Comment

        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

        • Cancer Mom
          no

          Ask yourself this question. If it kills the cancer what else does it do to the body??? Do you think it just goes right to the little cancer cells and kills only them. And if you know that the chemo saved your cousin;s life how did you not know the other damaging effects of the chemo? What a few years and then see what else WILL come about in your cousin's health . I am sorry to say that there is absilutely no scientific research that proves chemo or radiation does anythig but cause harm to the body! And that is a fact! Do you know that doctors in the states count success in the treatments they use by if the patients survives post treatment 5 years. They could die on day 5 years and 1 day and they are still counted as a success, even if that 5 years and 1 day was in absolute hell and agony. What a success, what a quality of life.

          - Cancer MomUS May 28, 2009 12:35PM

          Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

          Thank You for your Comment

          We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

          • slacker
            re: no

            "I am sorry to say that there is absilutely no scientific research that proves chemo or radiation does anythig but cause harm to the body!"

            Uh... actually there's mountains of evidence and studies that support the use of chemo and radiation therapy as a viable treatment for cancer . Of course it's toxic, and of course it has side effects, and of course it does harm to the body. That's exactly what it's supposed to do. It works on the theory that cancer cells are abnormal, therefore they are less resistant to the toxic effects of chemotherapy drugs than a normal cell would be. Chemotherapy is essentially poisoning somebody up to the threshold of what the healthy cells in their bodies can sustain. The weaker, sicker cancer cells die off. It is not a targeted treatment.

            You are delusional if you think that there is a way to treat an aggressive and pervasive disease like cancer without affecting the rest of the body. There are no targeted treatments at this time, and no magic cures. Believe me, if there was any tiny little shred of truth to any of these holistic cures, big pharma would be all over it. Cancer treatment is big money for them, and whoever patents the next miracle cancer drug is going to be obscenely wealthy as a result.

            Waiting for death is your only other option. I don't think that's a decision that a 13 year old boy can make for himself, nor one that anybody else can make for him. Too young.

            - slackerUS May 28, 2009 1:28PM

            Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

            Thank You for your Comment

            We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

            • stemcellblogger
              delusional slacker?

              Slacker said:
              "You are delusional if you think that there is a way to treat an aggressive and pervasive disease like cancer without affecting the rest of the body."

              Incorrect. First of all, cancer is often aggressive but is not technically pervasive. Pervade = "to become diffused throughout every part of" Even if cancer metastasized throughout many parts of the body, it would not have pervaded the body. But that's semantics.

              Your belief that there is no way to treat cancer without (significantly) affecting the rest of body is more troublesome. (I added significantly because everything has an affect, no matter how small and I don't want to start getting into Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, etc.)

              Look up HIFU (High Intensity Focused Ultrasound). Look up ablation therapy. Look up destroytumors.com All of these are different 'takes' on a similar concept AND practice of a non-invasive and non-toxic and non-detrimental cancer therapy. This is NOT herbs or crystals or alternative therapy (some of which are very powerful). This is a cutting edge machine, an engineered device that uses technology and hard science to GENTLY treat a patient with cancer.

              ~7,000 cancer patients were treated throughout Asia with a ~74% success rate at tumor removal. A little bonus is that the circulation of post HIFU ablation particles actually creates an increased cancer immune response in the body making the patient more resistant to future tumor development.
              ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              But you are completely correct on these 2 points:
              1. "Cancer treatment is big money for (big pharma)"
              2. "whoever patents the next miracle cancer drug..."

              1. You will not hear about these techniques because they will take money out of the pockets of big pharma if they were used in the US and big pharma has too strong a stranglehold on the FDA, AMA, etc.

              2. It IS all about the drug patents. To bring a drug to market, costs about $500 million and takes 7-12 yrs. The pharma companies HAVE TO develop drugs so they can PATENT them so they can SELL them EXCLUSIVELY for 5-10 yrs so they can make back the $500 mill. via - http://repairstemcell.wordpress.com/2009/04/07/laura-asks-2-why-would-someone-like-michael-j-fox-not-seek-treatment-outside-the-us /

              So, is there a way to treat a disease like cancer aggressively and effectively while treating the patient's body gently? ABSOLUTELY!

              SO will you EVER hear about non-drug treatments that work? DON'T BET ON IT!

              - stemcellbloggerUS May 29, 2009 12:43AM

              Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

              Thank You for your Comment

              We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • strazzerj
    Entitled to seek whatever treatment?

    "But I do think they’re entitled as a family to seek whatever form of treatment they believe is best."

    If a child has a head cold, and the family believes that 60-day starvation therapy (usually resulting in death) is the God-commanded way to drive out the evil cold demons, is that Ok too?

    - strazzerjUS May 27, 2009 11:43AM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • bagpiper2005
    I don't care how old the kid is

    He should have the right to refuse treatment. Bottom line, end of story. Obviously his mother shouldn't make that determination for him, but this whole thing of "minors are too young to choose" is BS and his will should prevail.

    As such, even though I'm of age, I have a living will in place that forbids any and all medical intervention, including emergency medicine , cancer treatment, CPR, blood transfusion, dialysis, life support, etc.

    - bagpiper2005US May 27, 2009 11:47AM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • AutismNewsBeat
      Age of consent

      In your view, should a child be able to consent to anything? Or is consent limited to medical treatment?

      Did you sign your living will when you were 14 years old?

      - AutismNewsBeatUS May 27, 2009 1:53PM

      Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

      • bagpiper2005
        If I Could Have I Would Have

        I would have signed that thing. Luckily I do have it in place now. I just hate doctors , and that's my personal reason for refusing any and all treatment. Mine obviously isn't a religious objection to medicine , but just because I hate the money -hungry, thieving, greedy people known as doctors.

        Is the child of sound mind? Does the child know what he/she is getting into? If so, I don't necessarily see the problem with letting a child "make his/her own mistakes" as parents often describe it as. Of course, that may just come from my deep resentment toward my parents.

        - bagpiper2005US May 27, 2009 1:59PM

        Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

        Thank You for your Comment

        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

        • AutismNewsBeat
          Age of consent 2.0

          It's generally assumed that a 14-year-old cannot legally consent to certain types of decisions. If the kid really does have the maturity to withhold medical treatment from himself, I suppose he could petition a court for emancipation. But no such attempt was made here.

          - AutismNewsBeatUS May 27, 2009 4:55PM

          Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

          Thank You for your Comment

          We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

        • ecuadmail
          Scathing review

          With such a scathing review of doctors (ie "I hate the money -hungry, thieving, greedy people known as doctors.") wouldn't you say that your decision may be influenced by that animosity? Aren't you declaring by your own declaration that you would rather die than give somebody some money? Would you be angered if someone put a bandage on you that stopped you from bleeding out if you cut yourself? Even if they weren't a doctor?

          I know it's off topic I'm just curious.

          - ecuadmailUS May 27, 2009 7:59PM

          Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

          Thank You for your Comment

          We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • Johnny
      Minors Can't Make Every Choice For a Reason

      Minors can't make every choice for a reason: they don't have enough knowledge and experience to make a competent choice.

      He is 13 years old, he cannot read, and has a learning disorder. His mother has convinced him that chemotherapy will kill him.

      Do you really think he is making an educated, cognitive, competent choice?

      - JohnnyUS May 27, 2009 2:20PM

      Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

      • AutismNewsBeat
        Exactly

        And similar questions can be raised about the parents as well.

        - AutismNewsBeatUS May 27, 2009 4:57PM

        Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

        Thank You for your Comment

        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

        • Johnny
          Parents Might Not Be Smart Enough Either

          LOL! Good point. His mother selling him that line makes me wonder if she was manipulating for her own reasons; or if she actually had been sold that line and believed it.

          - JohnnyUS May 27, 2009 5:03PM

          Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

          Thank You for your Comment

          We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • Mateo76
    Society does not own you...

    or your children . At least that's the way it should be. If it weren't for the Bill of Rights, Americans would be owned completely by their government.

    Things we can't do to ourselves, our OWN bodies:
    1. Take drugs, except alcohol , tobacco and prescribed
    2. Commit suicide

    But this debate applies to things we can't do to our offspring, which is more or less abusing them.

    Abuse is an extremely vague and subjective term. When you ground your kids , are you not abusing them? When you make them take vitamins or medicine , or eat liver, do you have their permission? When you yell at them or spank them, aren't you abusing them?

    This is why parents, the people who are responsible for bringing the new life into the world, are the ones who historically been COMPLETELY responsible for the care for their children.

    But since society says what I can and cannot do with my OWN body, why should I object to what it says I can and cannot do with my children? It's not just medicine. California recently banned home schooling, for instance.

    Is home schooling abusive? I don't think so, but even if it was, why should I have a right to tell you to what you can do with your responsibility? When did your children become my responsibility?

    - Mateo76US May 27, 2009 11:58AM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • AutismNewsBeat
      Abuse is subjective?


      There's a big difference between grounding a child and withholding life saving medical treatment. Sorry you can't see that.

      - AutismNewsBeatUS May 27, 2009 2:04PM

      Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

      • Mateo76
        The adjective big is subjective?

        As a matter of fact, it is. As are the adjectives good, safe, violent, dishonest and immoral. That is why I and I alone should be free how I apply those adjectives and act in my own personal matters. But you want to control how I act, especially if it affects the child I, not you, am responsible for. Keep in mind, that child is dependent on me for everything. I would never withhold this treatment, but what right do I have to interfere with how you wish to raise your child?

        We might as well clone babies and raise them by the state if you think you have a right to say how my child is raised.

        I'm so sorry you didn't understand my point and inferred I'm not smart enough or compassionate enough to understand that there is a difference between grounding and withholding treatment. Your knee-jerk reaction to attack my character without a thoughtful summary of your opinion is precisely what is wrong with the political climate in this country.

        - Mateo76US May 27, 2009 2:51PM

        Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

        Thank You for your Comment

        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

        • AutismNewsBeat
          So is the adjective "smart"

          You've just contradicted yourself. If abuse is subjective, then how can you rationally accuse me of, uh, abusing you?

          See how that works now?

          There are decades of US legal precedent establishing that parents don't have a right to withhold life saving medical care from their children . You may be responsible for your child today, but unless you exercise your "right to kill him" he will grow to adulthood, at which point he becomes society 's responsibility as well.

          - AutismNewsBeatUS May 27, 2009 4:42PM

          Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

          Thank You for your Comment

          We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

          • Mateo76
            Society has responsibility; People do

            I didn't accuse you of abuse, at least the kind that would be punishable by the laws you favor. I expressed my sorrow that you said I couldn't see the difference between two different types of abuse. Besides, I am free to accuse you of anything as long as it's done privately and not in a harassing manner. It only becomes a contradiction when I get the government to use force against you to impose my will.

            The point is it seems like you want to make everything partly your responsibility so you can control it, either directly or through the people you elect.

            I favor freedom over control. The politically influenced courts may not, but if you think control is better, then form your own society (change the laws in your state) and let people freely choose if they want more government control or not. I just want government protection from people who may do me harm. You can argue that a child is entitled that protection against their parents, but how do you equitably enforce that?

            Once you decide to enforce it, the government becomes the parent.

            - Mateo76US May 27, 2009 5:09PM

            Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

            Thank You for your Comment

            We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

            • Mateo76
              Sorry

              That should be "Society has no responsibility; People do"

              Under the law , individuals are given responsibilities by a bigger group of individuals, in order to protect individual rights. Period. If you believe otherwise, then go start your own government/ religion /cult!

              - Mateo76US May 27, 2009 5:18PM

              Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

              Thank You for your Comment

              We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

            • AutismNewsBeat
              No, you're the parent

              For me, the greatest lesson of invading Iraq is that there can be no freedom without order. What you're advocating sounds like freedom from order. The last time our species had that luxury was about 10,000 years ago, just before we made the switch from hunter-gatherer to city dwellers.

              It's not that I want to make your child my responsibility - it's that I have no choice. If parental malfeasance and neglect turns a child into an illiterate sociopath, then society suffers. I understand that government cannot guarantee outcomes, and not every child will be raised in an ideal manner. But government can set minimal standards - compulsory education , mandatory vaccination , age of consent laws, etc.

              - AutismNewsBeatUS May 27, 2009 5:22PM

              Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

              Thank You for your Comment

              We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

              • Mateo76
                Freedom from control

                "If parental malfeasance and neglect turns a child into an illiterate sociopath, then society suffers."

                How does society suffer exactly? If society can protect itself from sociopaths, I don't see how it suffers. Sure, one more literate taxpayer helps keep the system together, but at what cost? When the government has a key to your front door, it's a big cost.

                I would say society suffers when people think the government is responsible for us cradle to grave. There are simply not enough resources to do that, and those that are committed in the futile attempt to achieve that, are taken away from other, more productive uses.

                I am not an anarchist. But the less a government meddles (controls), the freer the society.

                - Mateo76US May 27, 2009 5:41PM

                Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

                Thank You for your Comment

                We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

      • Cancer Mom
        Sorry you can't see

        And I am sorry that you really believe it is life saving what they are offering this boy. hCheck out Oasis of Hope Hopsital online. There you will find life saving medical treatment. Until you do......well shush about this so called life saving medical treatment.

        - Cancer MomUS May 28, 2009 12:44PM

        Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

        Thank You for your Comment

        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • Sagibaro
      Homeschooling in the state of California

      It's a side topic, but homeschooling was not banned in California. The Second Appellate court of California published an unfortunately broad opinion in a child dependency case, but after some reconsideration decided that maybe they'd been a bit hasty. They depublished the original opinion and published a new one that basically left everything the way it was before the court got itself into a snit. The Second Appellate only covers four counties in California so it hardly had the force of a U.S. Supreme Court or even a California Supreme Court decision -- although it could have been extremely vexing if the original opinion had stayed in place.

      - SagibaroUS May 27, 2009 7:17PM

      Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • David Simmer
    Incorrect definition of abuse

    No one is suggesting that Mr. and Mrs. Hauser were "abusing their son because they think differently from the masses."

    They were abusing their son by willfully withholding the only treatment that has a chance of curing his painful and life-threatening illness. That's called criminal medical neglect. Their (supposedly religious, and grossly ignorant) belief in ionized water and herbs wouldn't make them any less culpable if he were to die as a result of their nonsense.

    - David SimmerUS May 27, 2009 12:05PM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • BCReason
    Alternative Medicine

    First I just want to say I agree 100% with the Comment "The Golden Rule" by gma.

    Secondly we do not own our children . If it takes a village to raise them, then they belong to the village. That is why we can take them away if we see the parents doing something to harm them.

    I do not see a difference between starving a child and denying them medical treatment. If the parents religion says you must let your child die of starvation no one would hesitate to remove that child from the parents. Yet denying proven medical treatments is a right? I don't think so.

    Third. There is NO such thing as alternative medicine . There is Medicine and there is superstitious quackery that doesn't work.

    Why do I say this? It's because any treatment that is proven to work becomes medicine . Like willow tree bark and even leaches. Willow tree bark is of course Aspirin and leaches are used to suck out old coagulated blood when reattaching a severed limb.

    If Daniel is being given unproven treatments for his cancer he's essentially not being treated.

    - BCReasonCA May 27, 2009 12:32PM

    Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • jude1849
      Alternative Medicine

      There are plenty of alternative medicines that millions of people use everyday rather than submit their bodies to the manmade crap that has more side effects than they help provide to rid a body from symptoms, but never really heal the body.

      There have been cancer cures since the 1800's and probably before that. There are millions of cancer victims cured by natural cures without the destruction of "modern medicine ".
      Chemo destroys good cells just like it kills cancer cells. To me that is not acceptable when there are other cures that don't put you close to death to "possibly" acomplish health .

      The AMA will not allow alternative medicine because they would be out of business. Modern medicine would become a thing of the past and pharmacies would be gone. Hospitals as we know them would be changed forever and would be bacteria free and safe to go to. People would treat their whole body instead of symptoms.

      Disease is really dis-ease. It's our bodies reacting to being treated like it can take all the abuse we give it. Did you know that our body is designed to heal itself? That most people that have been autopsied have had cancer at one or more times of their lives and their bodies have cured it themselves? Did you know that stress can make you sick; again, dis-ease.

      Healty bodies can cure themselves. But now days our bodies are bombarded with too many man-made irritants such as floride, frutose, and margarine, medications, just to name a few.

      The cost of alternative medicine to become the "option of choice" for health would bankrupt the AMA instead of people like you and me.

      A couple good sites for you to start would be http://www.wanttoknow.info / and do a google of Dr. Mercola.
      We don't need chemo; it's outdated and it's long past time for people to object to it's use!

      And to stay on subject whether parents have more control over their children 's choice to refuse traditional medicine I give a resounding YES they do!

      Do they have the right to beat their children or neglect them or to be drug addicts and keep their children I give a resounding NO they do not!

      - jude1849US May 27, 2009 2:26PM

      Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

      • BCReason
        Alternative Medicine

        If it's alternative and it's tested and shown to be effective it gets added to real medicine and it's no longer considered alternative. So there is only one choice. There is medicine and stuff that is peddled by quacks looking to make a few bucks.

        There are enough checks and balances in the system that your conspiracy theories on ignoring worthwhile treatments while advancing dangerous ones don't hold up. If you want a conspiracy theory try Homeopathy. They sell little vials of water for 20 to 30 bucks a pop and everybody knows it's water. They even admit it's water. Now that's a racket.

        You are right the body heals itself of most things. Your body is constantly fighting cancers. Cells mutate become cancerous and the body kills them off. It happens everyday all day for every one. Even tumours shrink and go into remission on their own. You may not even know you had them.

        That being said every so often you get a tumour that the body can't handle on it's own. This is where medicine steps in with it's arsenal of tools to help.

        They didn't pluck these tools out of thin air like the alternative people. Every drug and procedure goes through extensive testing and many go by the wayside because they are ineffective or determined too dangerous for the benefit they provide. So only the ones that show a good benefit to danger ratio are chosen.

        This doesn't happen in the alternative world. You give Fred herb A. He got better. You didn't account for other things that might have made him better, or did he just got better on his own, Did he really get better or did just feel better because of the placebo effect? Did you track 10,000 Fred's to see if herb A made a thousand of them sicker? Did you give another 10,000 Fred's a sugar pill to isolate if it really is herb A that made them better? Did you do it blind so that know one knew, even your self whether the Fred's were getting herb A or the sugar pill so you can't skew the results unconsciously? Did you have your test reviewed and the results published? Did you hire an independent research company to repeat what you did to catch any mistakes you might have made?

        If you didn't do all of the above then your not providing alternative medicine your providing wishful thinking.

        If alternative medicines have been around for so long and they work so good why do we have modern medicine in the first place? Why have life spans increased even though we have a more stressful and polluted world? Why are many killer diseases like small pox, typhoid, typhus, syphilis, rabies, polio barely even heard of today where a 100 years ago in the heyday of the alternative medicines they killed millions.

        Look get rid of the notion natural is good unnatural is bad. It's just plain ignorant. The most potent and dangerous toxins in the world are all natural. Some an amount the size of a grain of sugar could kill hundreds of people. (Look up Ricin)

        Chemical fertilizers save billions from starvation and are safer than natural fertilizers that are rife with disease. Aspirin is merely the man made version of the exact same chemical made naturally from willow bark. Same as Digitalis and fox glove.


        - BCReasonCA May 27, 2009 3:59PM

        Reply to this Recommend (2) Icon flag

        Thank You for your Comment

        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

        • jude1849
          Alternative Medicine not wishful thinking

          If you had taken the time to got to the sites I listed you would know that there are alternatives to traditional medicines that have been tested and many trials done and many proven success stories.

          Yes, there are some that will sell water that they say can cure you. If you are talking about Kanga water it is ionized water and does help with some ailments and does build up the immune system.

          But we are talking about cancer cures in this discussion and there are many ways to treat different cancers without killing off the good cells in the body.

          You have no idea what homeopathy is. It's treating the whole body system instead of just symptoms.

          How do you justify the AMA? They are the ones that ok'd many drugs that have side effects that either did more damage or killed the patient that took them.

          They have had to recall so many drugs after they ok'd them. They ok'd the drug tamiflu for swine flu in the 80's and it is proven that it doesn't do anything to get rid of the flu and thousands died using it and they still won't take it off the market.

          The AMA is all about money . They make trillions of dollars yearly on drugs and medical treatments that could have can been cured with natural remedies that don't cost enough for them to make a profit. That's why they are against natural remedies. They don't want people to get better; they would go out of business. It's called greed!

          "He who controls the money controls the world". That is exactly why any invention that would be cheaper and cleaner than oil is not on the market in the US. They are being used in other countries though; cars that run on water, electricity that is made from sea water which is plentiful, cancer cures which cost way less than kemo and radiation and don't take months to cure a person.

          Close your eyes if you want to;(in fact the government loves people like you) don't do your own research on the sites I mentioned or look up your own and when you get cancer go through the chemo and put a second or third mortgage on your house because you will need it.

          But don't think that everyone needs to dance the same dance as you do or they are conspiracy theorists. They are the ones that will lead us to a freer government which or forefathers faught for.

          I for one don't believe in the government controlling everything I do. Telling me that they are keeping us safe by using torture , telling us they are keeping us safe when on 9/11 they couldn't even take down those planes with the state of art program they have. You can bet if it was headed for the Whitehouse it would have been shot down! AND believe this, the government knows every move you make and every person you talk to and every site you've ever been on the internet . They know every youtube you watch, the kinds of purchases you make, your health records and that is not the kind of government we were given by our forfathers.

          I rest my case, because the Mother was so intimidated by the government she complied. The boy is getting the chemo that will bring him to the brink of death to hopefully save his life and for that I am sad!





          - jude1849US May 28, 2009 10:45AM

          Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

          Thank You for your Comment

          We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

          • BCReason
            Alternative Medicine No Such Thing

            Success stories are not evidence. For example: I had cancer and took herb B and my cancer went into remission. This is not evidence because we can't tell for sure if the herb caused the remission or that it was spontaneous. It may have have been something else I was taking.

            Yes tests are done on so called alternatives and they show promise. However when you look at how the tests were done, the methodology was so bad the results are worthless. When you repeat those tests using proper methodology you usually find the substance under test provided no benefit. The few that pass the tests are now part of pharmacology and are no longer considered alternative. So again my point Alternative is untested junk because if it worked it would be mainstream.

            I suppose when you talk about natural cures you mean mostly herbal. Homeopathy is just silly magical thinking that has no basis in reality at all. IF you had just a glimmer of scientific knowledge you'd know that.

            Back to herbal. Let's take Foxglove for example. This was used as a natural remedy for heart disease. Scientists investigated it isolated the active ingredient digitalis and it is used in it's pure form to treat heart patients. Now lets say you don't trust the AMA and you have heart disease and you go to your naturopath for foxglove. Well different varieties of foxglove have different concentrations of digitalis and the concentrations differ by geographical area and weather and time of year. So you never know if your getting enough or too much. All plants have 100's of compounds that might have an affect on your health . By taking plants like foxglove you may be also getting other compounds that may cause unknown side effects.

            Again it's the old if it's natural it must be better lie.

            Real Greed is Homeopaths selling water as medicine . Some are deluded but others are merely con men selling snake oil . Every year there is a group of sceptics in Britain that commit suicide by taking massive overdoses of Homeopathic preparations. They take hundreds of times the recommended dosage. The joke is, it's the exact same people every year. The worst that happens is all the water makes them pee.

            I think if you looked the same companies that make the evil chemo you distrust also own the the herbal companies. It's a great racket. You don't have to spend millions on testing, It's cheap to produce, it doesn't need exacting quality control and the FDA is not looking over your shoulder. All you need to do is advertise in some natural health mag about how it cured Uncle Larry of lumbago and the suckers come running. Who cares if it works or harms people by the time the FDA bans it in a decade or two we can be off to the next thing to extract money from the rubes.

            You think I'm sucked in by the AMA. You've drunk the natural flavour aid and you have no idea. Some Bimbo at the health food store recommends something and that's gold to you. You've fallen for the worlds biggest scam next to organized religion and all you can do is Say "Look at all the suckers getting healthy on tried and tested medicine. Excuse me while I suck on this root." It's laughable if it wasn't so tragic your pointing at the so called Big Pharma conspiracy while your knee deep in the world of con men, quacks and charlatans.

            Your following witch doctor medicine that didn't do anything for the witch doctors and doesn't do anything for people now. If it wasn't for modern science most of us would be dead or barely living, Stuck with the consequences of all the diseases that used to kill or maim us.

            Europeans didn't kill the Indians smallpox did. Smallpox which is now extinct thanks to modern medicine. All the "Natural" cures and ancient wisdom didn't help them.

            If you prefer to believe your alternative practitioners with a community college education or some one like ex con Kevin Trudeau over the 10's of thousands of PhD's and Nobel Laureates all over the world the more fool you.

            As for Cancer Chemo will soon be a thing of the past. There is a project ongoing to map the 300 plus genetic mutations that cause the various cancers. Then create drugs tailored to attack cells with those specific mutations leaving the rest alone. Then cancer treatment will be simple matter of a needle biopsy to determine the genetic make up of the cancer cells. You'll then get a drug specific to your cancer.

            They sort of do that now. My wife went through this last year with breast cancer. The biopsy determined the exact type of cancer she had. From that the doctor determined she didn't need chemo. She had the tumour removed, underwent radiation and now takes pills to prevent it from coming back. The pills have been on the market for 30 years and are off patent so they are almost as cheap as aspirin.

            - BCReasonCA May 28, 2009 1:00PM

            Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

            Thank You for your Comment

            We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

      • Cancer Mom
        Bravo to Alternative Medicine

        Applause for you Jude1849. Very well stated. Thank you!

        - Cancer MomUS May 28, 2009 1:03PM

        Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

        Thank You for your Comment

        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • Cancer Mom
      Quackery?

      Why is it when something is not the norm, then it is hokey-pokey, superstitious, quackery or what-ever you want to call it. You know I am really tired of people being so un-informed. More people die at the hands of US medical dotors each year. Yes there is actually research to back that statement up. Think about this. Every drug commercial on tv that you have seen, does it say cure this or that? No it says it treats the symptoms of this or that? So when we go to the US doctors and they give us one of the wonder drugs, they are not treating what is causing those symptoms, just the symptoms. When my son was diagnosed with cancer , it was 8 months after being seen by 4 doctors that all said he had an upper respirtory infection and gave him the wonder drugs. The only test that was done by those 4 competent docs 8 months prior failed to see the mass growing in his chest! Awe but we should trust everything they say......NOT! I am not saying that alternative medicine is the answer because as the common everyday person, we could not figure out which herb goes with which herb to help this or that. But what I do know is everything we need for the well being of our bodies is here on this planet as God has provided it to us. We just might need help finding it.

      - Cancer MomUS May 28, 2009 1:00PM

      Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • Mark D
    A question of children's rights versus parental control

    It is almost universally accepted that children need protection against their own, often poor decision-making, especially in critical life choices. As in - "however interesting it seems, keep away from river". This is good parenting at it's most basic.

    But, where particular parents exhibit similarly poor judgment, in this case one which could result in the death of an otherwise curable child, does society and the state have a duty to step in and enforce a potentially life-saving intervention? In my opinion, it does. In a case where the choice is between certain death and a 90% statistically proven survival rate, the blindingly obvious decision is to choose treatment.

    The issue of "alternative treatments" should not be allowed to muddy the waters either. The idea that there exists a whole other body of treatments which, though effective, is eschewed by "Western" doctors , is largely nonsense. If "alternative" treatments worked in a verifiable way which stood up to reasonable, evidence-based testing, then they would become " medicine ". That is how medicine works. Furthermore, chemotherapy is perfectly natural. We have been putting chemicals in our bodies which we have found to cure our diseases for thousands of years. It started with berries and leaves, before we developed the knowledge to extract the chemicals we needed and mix them together with other chemicals to produce the amazingly effective treatments which we have today.

    What we need to ask ourselves is - if we step in and save this boy's life, then ask him 10 years later whether he was glad we did, what do you think he's likely to say?

    To allow an adult to take their chances without treatment is a question of personal freedom. To allow a child, even with his parent's consent to do the same thing, is at best, serious neglect on the part of society.

    - Mark DIE May 27, 2009 12:42PM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • Mike Kessler
    Daniel Hauser has a right to choose

    I had a partner who had Hodgkins lymphoma. He and I went to the oncologist together and were told the survival rate was better than 90% if treated. Less than two years later he died. Throughout his treatment, I relied on the 90% figure and never thought I would lose him. At the time, I was young and it never occurred to me that nearly one in ten people die of Hodgkins. Now I know.

    He was at a late stage when the disease was diagnosed, so treatment started with chemotherapy rather than radiation. The chemo was awful, but for a while it staved off the disease for a few months. When it came back, he was given radiation, then an experimental protocol.

    Chemo today is not what it was twenty years ago when we faced our ordeal, but it is not a comfortable or pleasant treatment. If I were a parent watching my child endure the agony of poison being administered to him by doctors to cure his cancer , I would certainly feel great anguish and turmoil. I hope that Daniel Hauser's parents have talked with him sufficiently that they understand his wants and needs and are acting accordingly.

    The courts and the public also need to understand that forcing chemo on Daniel is not a surefire way to cure his cancer. He still has a one in ten chance of dying from it even with treatment. If he lives he knows that he faces a greatly increased chance of other cancers and health problems in the years to come. If the courts could guarantee the boy a 100% chance of recovery then judicial intervention would be warranted, but no one can guarantee that. There are circumstances where I believe the courts should intervene for the betterment of the individual. I am not so sure this is one of those times.

    - Mike KesslerUS May 27, 2009 12:52PM

    Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • BCReason
      When do we get the right to choose?

      Do you let 5 year olds choose in life or death questions? 6? 7?

      Society has set the right to choose at an age that is older than Daniel's. Secondly I understand Daniel's competency is in question. It might be hearsay but I heard Daniel was evaluated for competency and was determined incompetent by being illiterate and having a limited knowledge of the world due to be home schooled and isolated. You can not give informed consent or refusal if you do not have all the facts.

      - BCReasonCA May 27, 2009 2:18PM

      Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • houyhnhnm
    Natural Selection

    The parent(s) and/or child should have the choice. If their decision is wrong, then the gene pool will be strengthened. If their decision is right, then the gene pool will be strengthened.

    Of course, I'm in an especially cynical mood right now, so take this with a grain of salt or vinegar or whatever.

    - houyhnhnmUS May 27, 2009 1:00PM

    Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • phenn
    The authorities aren't always right

    Google a young man named Abraham Cherrix. He had the exact same cancer and the same set of burdensome interference from the state. But, he won the battle and is cancer-free years later.

    - phennUS May 27, 2009 1:56PM

    Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • Johnny
    Daniel is Not Competent Enough to Make this Choice

    **Still, Daniel is a minor. And in the same way teenagers are too young to “choose” abortion without parental consent, I personally believe Daniel is too young to make this decision.**

    I agree with PhillyChief; once you’ve made this statement, you’ve defeated the rest of your argument. Besides being a minor, he is not even close to being competent enough to make this choice. He cannot read, and has a learning disorder. Add to that the fact that his mother has convinced him that chemotherapy will probably kill him.

    +++++ +++++ +++++

    You add two stories illustrating where doctors intervention was wrong; but stories for the other side can be found too. What about Kara Neumann? Simple insulin treatment would have saved her life; and apparently her signs were so obvious any medically trained personnel could have probably identified her condition. Her parents chose to pray, and let her die.

    +++++ +++++ +++++

    The human body is an amazing thing, and there have been fluke cases where the body has healed itself. But waiting for the body to heal itself is not reliable. Alternate medicine is not reliable either; if it was reliable they wouldn’t call it “alternate” – they would just call it “medicine.”

    There might be cases were someone refuses treatment because the treatment doesn’t improve their possible outcome; and I think ADULTS should be allowed that choice. But in the case of a MINOR with a very high probability of survival with the treatment, denying that treatment is abuse, and if death results that is murder. I’ll grant that this means there will be some judgment calls, some may be controversial, and some may enter that gray area in the middle. However Daniel Hauser’s case is not one of those.

    - JohnnyUS May 27, 2009 2:15PM

    Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • KentMcManigal
    Daniel's right; not Colleen's

    Daniel is the one whose rights are being violated here. He decided against chemo. His decision should have been respected. The only "valid reason" anyone needs to refuse any kind of treatment is that they don't want it. Period. If you do not own your own life, which includes the right to destroy it, you own nothing.

    - KentMcManigal May 27, 2009 2:33PM

    Reply to this Recommend (3) Icon flag

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • Mateo76
      That's what the Left wants...

      no ownership. Not even your own thoughts.

      MYOB? No everything is their business.

      But control is OK, as long as we all control each other, right? Yeah, but some of them are more enlightened than others, so they'll be entitled to more control.

      - Mateo76US May 27, 2009 3:37PM

      Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

      • AutismNewsBeat
        Ohhhhh

        Now I understand.

        - AutismNewsBeatUS May 27, 2009 4:59PM

        Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

        Thank You for your Comment

        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

      • gma
        In the words of the poet Kalhil Gibran

        And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said, "Speak to us of Children." And he said:

        Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.

        And though they are with you, they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts. For they have their own thoughts.

        You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you. For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

        You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

        IN OTHER WORDS, YOU DON'T OWN YOUR CHILDREN BUT YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM AND ARE TO NURTURE THEM SO THAT THEY CAN DEVELOP THEIR OWN THOUGHTS.

        - gmaUS May 27, 2009 6:01PM

        Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

        Thank You for your Comment

        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • Monty Gaither
    It is child abuse

    A parent has the right to die for their superstitious beliefs, but they do not have the right to kill their children for those beliefs.

    This parents' so-called alternative treatment has no evidence showing it works but the treatment the doctors will give the boy has over a 90% survival rate.

    If the boy wants to do the "nutritional" stuff along with the verified method of treatment that can be allowed. But, we cannot let the boy die a horrible death because of the ridiculous beliefs of the parent(s).

    - Monty GaitherUS May 27, 2009 6:59PM

    Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • zman
    THERE GO OUR FREEDOMS

    We live in the USA why would any one want to take away any of our freedoms.
    With that said,My choice is life.Get the treatments.
    But I would say it is the parents choice.The state has no right to force chemo.
    I would fight to the end of time to keep all my rights dont let the state take way your God given rights

    - zmanUS May 27, 2009 8:40PM

    Reply to this Recommend (3) Icon flag

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • slacker
      that's the problem...

      The boy is obviously too young to make the distinction between what his true beliefs are and what his parents told him his beliefs are. The kid has been indoctrinated by his parents with their own belief system. Granted, that's how practically 100% of people find religion . However, I find it disingenuous when people claim that his belief system is truly his own. He hasn't lived long enough to question those beliefs or been exposed to alternate views. Something that I think all true believers in a faith must experience before they can fully accept their religion, and something I had to do with my own. I'm sorry if that offends anybody, but it's the truth. Until then, I don't believe that this boy can truly use his "faith" as the reasoning for abandoning PROVEN modern medicine .

      - slackerUS May 28, 2009 10:05AM

      Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

      • zman
        You make good points

        The big problem here is the parents.But we should not let the states force any treatments on anyone.
        If we can not pick the treamments for our self and children that is a problem.The state is not my keeper!And should not be!
        Plus who haves to pay for it.I work for a living and I make to much money to get state help.So my house hold goes with out medicines
        our prescription alone is over $500.00 per month.So there is just no more $ left for the DR.

        - zmanUS May 28, 2009 8:50PM

        Reply to this Recommend (2) Icon flag

        Thank You for your Comment

        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

  • Colleen McCool
    Cannabis Oil Cure

    In a cannabis study on cancer conducted in 1974, researchers at the Medical College of Virginia, who had been funded by the National Institute of Health to find evidence that marijuana damages the immune system, instead found that THC slowed the growth of three kinds of cancer in mice - lung and breast cancer, and a virus-induced leukemia. The Drug Enforcement Agency shut down that study and buried that life saving information. In 2000, it was validated again when researchers in Madrid announced they had destroyed incurable brain tumors in rats by injecting them with THC, the active ingredient in cannabis.

    More recently scientists have discovered that one of Bob Dylan's most famous lines, "everybody must get stoned," tells it like it is. They have found that our brains manufacture proteins (canabinoids) that act like marijuana (THC) at specific receptors in the brain itself.

    This is an atrocious scandal, too ghastly to be ignore, more explosive than sex in the oval office! Yet where are the headlines ? Where is the outrage in major news media ? Are they like Mexican journalists, afraid to tell truth to power? Fear losing their jobs not their lives, so far at least.

    Big pharmacy lobbyist have paid for road blocks to cannabis research. For all these decades, the medical profession has been treating cancer patients to killer cocktails of antiangiogenesis drugs that cut off the blood supply to tumors while also killing healthy cells! Ifosfamide destroys the patients bladder and kidneys. And as a last hope treatment, thaledomide, the sleeping pill that produced clubfeet and webbed fingers will also starve tumors. These poison drip cocktails come with side effects you can count on to make life no longer worth living. Radiation is another poisonous, "cure" and surgery often triggers the cancer to spread. We all know someone who has suffered these hellish treatments. One day these, "cures," will be looked on as a step back to the dark ages in medicine .

    An Internet search for "THC cancer" brings up thousands of research papers. Ooooops! Who spilled the beans? SCIENTISTS and PATIENTS all over the world, that's who! This truth will not be suppressed, until every household knows the clamor, the swelling protest, exposing dark, dirty secrets of heinous crimes against humanity!

    The debate over medical marijuana, hemp or cannabis is really a scandalous controversy over whether this very effective, safe and easy-to-grow herb should be allowed to compete with expensive and dangerous pharmaceuticals. Cannabis oil is the cure all our ancestors relied on and thank goodness, did not let us all be brainwashed into forgetfulness about.

    Patients testify to Cannabis' help in treating post traumatic stress, depression, chronic pain, multiple sclerosis, gastrointestinal (GI) tract disorders, Alzheimer's, Cancer, epilepsy, glaucoma, hepatitis C and HIV / AIDS and more! They swear it is an effective safer replacement for very dangerous pharmaceuticals.

    Morally bankrupt profiteering has no place in medicine, which must be concerned with the well being of the individual not the bottom line. Doctors who have monitored cannabis use by hundreds of thousands of patients in California and Oregon can document a consistent pattern of using less pharmaceuticals including cutting opiates use by half. Repealing prohibition of marijuana would bring other much needed health care reform.

    - Colleen McCoolUS May 28, 2009 12:59PM

    Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • zman
      Choice

      You see that the goverment is trying to put the brakes on marijuana .They want the tax $.
      And the only way they can tax marijuana is to totaly legalise it.We all know that will never happen!

      - zmanUS May 28, 2009 9:13PM

      Reply to this Recommend (2) Icon flag

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

See Related...