Property Rights for Advocates of Thoughts We Hate

By Ilya Somin

Justice Louis Brandeis famously wrote that freedom of speech requires “not free thought for those who agree with us but freedom for the thought that we hate.” The same point applies to property rights. A free society must protect the property rights of those who espouse unpopular views — even if their unpopularity is well-deserved. This problem is presented by a recent incident where Washington, DC police apparently refused to protect the property rights of Muslim traditionalists who are trying to prevent women from worshiping next to men in their mosque:

The D.C. police department will no longer intervene in an ongoing protest by Islamic women over their place in area mosques....

A group of Muslim women has provoked confrontations in mosques in and around the capital for months by claiming the right to worship next to men. The gestures have led to angry arguments between the women and conservative men among the Muslim worshipers.

Internal e-mails obtained by The Examiner show that the D.C. police department has now decided that the men are on their own.

“We are not to get involved,” Inspector Matthew Klein wrote in a May 24 e-mail. “Important that our officers not escort women out of there...”

D.C.‘s reversal is a victory for a small group of reform-minded Muslims in the capital region who say that their faith has to shake off its backward view of women.

Told of the department’s about-face, protest organizer Fatima Thompson let out a sustained whoop.

“This is such a win,” she said. “We’re supposed to be one community. Yet the moment we walk in, we’re separated one from the other....”

But the department’s climb-down raised the hackles of Ilya Shapiro, a legal scholar at the libertarian Cato Institute.

“The religious angle is beside the point. This isn’t a lunch counter or a restaurant or a hotel,” he said. “Basically this is a private institution, and that’s what this turns on — private property rights. If you don’t want a trespasser on your lawn ... you do rely on the police, ultimately, to eject people you don’t want.” 

As a libertarian and an atheist, I have zero sympathy for those Muslim traditionalists who want to relegate women to second class status. Nonetheless, I have to agree with my fellow Ilya here [no relation]. Government must protect the property rights of all its people, even those with abhorrent views. If these Muslim males are indeed the owners of the mosque, they have a right to exclude those who want to use the mosque in ways they disapprove of.

Muslim traditionalists are far from the only religious group with questionable views on women’s rights and other issues. Orthodox Jewish synagogues, for example, also require women to sit apart from men during worship. Some religious institutions exclude people involved in interfaith marriages; others exclude worshipers who are openly gay. The list can easily be extended. If we allow government to pick and choose which people’s property rights to protect based on their principles, the practical result will be protection for only those groups whose ideas conform to majority preferences or those of the political elite.

Private property gives minorities with unpopular views, lifestyles, or identities, a secure space in which they are protected from the hostility of the majority. Such groups included black civil rights advocates in the Jim Crow era, and gays in areas with widespread homophobia. If they cannot exclude those who disagree with their views from their property, they cannot form organizations that advocate and exemplify their principles. Even if, like me, you have little sympathy for this particular Muslim group, you should keep in mind that selective enforcement of property rights is likely to bite people you sympathize with more.

A possible counterargument is that these women could be analogized to black civil rights activists who sat in at segregated lunch counters back in the early 1960s. But as co-blogger David Bernstein points out, Jim Crow-era southern blacks were victims of “the equivalent of a white supremacist cartel”: a massive system of public and private violence that comprehensively excluded them from a wide range of opportunities (even those that might have been offered by owners willing to accept them). They weren’t merely excluded from a few locations owned by people with idiosyncratic views. In such a context, a decision to promote one’s cause by violating the property rights of racists is at least understandable.

By contrast, Muslim women in modern America have numerous options. They are perfectly free to join more liberal mosques that treat women equally or to establish new mosques of their own. They are also free to join a different, more egalitarian, religion or to become atheists or agnostics. In most if not all of these endeavors, majority public opinion would be on their side and various sympathetic individuals and civil society organizations would likely try to help them. Muslim women in Saudi Arabia may indeed be in a position analogous to that of blacks in the Jim Crow South. Not so with Muslim women in Washington, DC.

If we truly support freedom of speech for “the thought we hate,” we must also support property rights for the advocates of those thoughts. That’s why I have previously defended the property rights of communists like Bill Ayers and eminent domain abusers such as the Pfizer Corporation. And that’s why the DC Police probably made the wrong call here.

UPDATE: I said that the Police only “probably” made the wrong call because it’s possible that there’s some dispute over who actually owns this mosque. If the male traditionalists are not the sole owners, then they may not have the right to exclude these women after all. If that’s the case, however, it’s not clear why the Police supported their claims until recently.


From Volokh Conspiracy.

jjn's picture

It is clearly known that during prayers , men and women are separated. It may be extreme to say that women should not be allowed to enter the mosque. As exemplified by many nations, women should be allowed to worship in mosque but in a separate allocated place. Women fighting for rights "to pray next to men" is something that was not seen during the prophet's years.. and hence, it should not be encouraged in any modern society . There are many reasons.. and the popular belief that women are considered as "second-class" in muslim socities and family is certinaly a false one. Islam certainly respects and protects the women's rights in many, many ways.

The issue (and the test) here is do muslims men and women in liberalised societies follow what the prophet has taught us. I being a person who respects women and their rights, when it comes to religion , i prefer to follow what it says because it has many hidden benefits . I urge the muslim women to stop using the name of "Freedom of Speech and Women RIghts" to change something that has to be (really, has to be) followed as preceded by the prophet.

The Celestial Teapot's picture

You can't have it both ways. You can't say that you 'respect' women's rights and then advocate for a religion that suppresses them and institutionalises violence against them. It's like advocating for vegetarianism while eating a thick, juicy steak.

It seems odd to me that you are urging women to forego their rights to equality and freedom of expression - both espoused in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights - in order to remain subjugated in this way.

I support Muslim women totally in their attempts to break free from the stifling constraints of this Dark Ages worldview...helping Muslim women become educated, empowered and politically active is surely something that will make the world a better place...

Madgew's picture

to this!!! Freedom for all. I want to see a world where peace is the rule and discrimination outlawed.

User Removed's picture

No matter how foolish a religion 's precepts may be, inside a church 's own walls, they have a Constitutional right to worship whatever imaginary being they like, as they see fit. Even if some women are part owners of the church, the will of their dieties, as proclaimed by their shamans, dictates the rules of their order.

That's not the same thing as bigotry in business. If you open your doors to the public, to offer the public goods and services, your policies better be the same for everyone, or else. On the flip side, if a restaurant says, "No shoes, no shirt, no service.", the business has every right to expect law enforcement help to evict offenders. The owner may be barefooted, but if the manager calls police , the police have a duty to respond.

The most simple expedient, of course, would be for the church to obain a restraining order from a court of law. At that point, the police no longer have an option to responding.

The write up gives no indication as to how often the police have been called. A reasonable person would have to recognize there must be a point where police get tired of hearing the sky is falling, every time Chicken Little picks up the phone. By the second or third time, church elders ought to recognize there is an ongoing problem that may not be resolved by calling 911 . That's the point where any sensible person seeks a court order to restrain offenders.

afghan iraq vet's picture

The authorities have no place telling them how they can worship. If the women don't like it, they are free to leave.

Once a crime has been commited, ie physical harm to the women, denying them medical care, food etc, then the police can step in. If they try to leave and suffer assaullt or battery, then they can step in as well.

Simply trying to force them to allow women to worish along side the men would be prohibiting the free exercise of their chosen religion.

TB3's picture

If there are thoughts that we hate, it logically follows that we, as private citizens, must be allowed to hate those thoughts that we wish to. The question then becomes how to express such hatred; whether current law is to be obeyed on ones private property or ones hatreds are to be obeyed on ones private property.
This article concerns what we in the west would see as heavily biased, namely, not allowing women to worship with men. However, from their point of view, the men see that the separation of men and women during worship is the norm. The men are exercising their property rights in wishing to eject the women that are trying to worship 'on the mens side.'
The argument rests on two words: Private Property. Just who does own the mosque? Were the men that wished to expel the women justified in doing so? And why is the government involved in a religious issue?

politicalair's picture

hateful or not is OK, acting on them is not ....that is racism !

TB3's picture

If one holds an arguably hateful opinion, acting on that opinion is not racist . Categorizing it as such is in itself discriminatory as it presumes that all hateful thoughts are racist.
The main article deals with Muslim women wanting to worship with Muslim men. In this sense, race is not involved whatsoever, rather, certain religious traditions. One might call it sexism . This is within a particular belief, not extending 'outside' to those that do not so believe. Do those that hold this belief (namely, Islam) not have the right to hold this belief?
In any case, what happened to the 'separation of church (or in this case, mosque) and state'?

politicalair's picture

I meant to say that having thoughts, hateful or not is ok, acting on them is discriminatory.

You are correct, race is not the issue, gender is. However, my point is that everyone is entitled to their opinion, good or bad. It is when we act on our ('unispired') opinions, that it becomes a prejudice.

Personally, I do not agree that women should be religated to the 'back', in any respect. However, I do believe that is an intragal part of the Muslim/Islam culture.

I also agree with you that there should be a separation of church (mosque) and state here.

I was merely showing how in Western culture, we find (by definition) these practices to be discriminatory. This does not negate the separation of church/mosque and state. If folks chose to follow this path then so be it ......but you can't have it both ways. If one is Muslim and subscribes to its tenents, then that same person can not seek the assistance of the state when they disagree with their church/mosque ......that was exactly my point. Thank you for pointing out my lack of clarity here.

TB3's picture

Point taken. I have no idea of the reasons behind the separating of men and women and I cannot let my suspicions judge . There are other cultures that have discrimination built in. It is too easy to judge such cultures. Rather than sitting in judgement of other cultures we need to work on our own culture; it isnt exactly perfect either.

Sign up for the OV Daily Newsletter

 

randomness