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Anti-Abortion Arizona Law Says Pregnancy Starts Two Weeks Before Conception
The 'Woman's Health and Safety Act' signed into law by Arizona Governor Jen Brewer in April goes into effect this month.
The law calculates a woman's pregnancy as starting the very first day of the last menstrual period, reports the Daily Beast, which could be two weeks before the actual conception.
Women usually ovulate [and conceive] two weeks after the start of their last period. By saying that pregnancy starts two weeks before conception, Arizona's new law narrows the window in which a woman can get an abortion.
The Tucson Citizen reports: “Current law allows abortions up until the point of viability, when a fetus could reasonably survive on its own outside the womb. That’s considered by many medical experts and abortion clinics to be from 22 to 24 weeks.”
The new law could also close the chances of a woman aborting a baby with a lfe-threatening illness as the ultrasound usually done at about the 20th week, which would be the 18th week under the new law.
The Tuscon Citizen states: “During the hearings on the bill, doctors said many women don’t discover their fetus has a severe or life-threatening problem until an ultrasound at about the 20th week. The doctors — and several women who had faced this issue — testified that this law would arbitrarily cut off the right for these women to have an abortion.”
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Comments
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Who are these clowns who are
Who are these clowns who are making the determination that pregnancy occurs 2 weeks before conception???? This is unbelievable mythology and will never stand up to legal arguments or to science. We must stop the over-influence of these extremist social conservatives who are imposing their religious views on the entire society, which is in direct opposition to the US Constitution and Roe vs. Wade Law.
Actually, it would stand up
Actually, it would stand up to science, because the law is based on science. Doctors already calculate a woman's due date based on the first day of her last mentrual period.
That is such nonsense. There
That is such nonsense. There is no conception unless egg meets sperm and zygote lodges itself in the uterus. There is no life until a fetus can survive and breath on its own outside the mother's womb. That's the science and the law.
Republicans never cease to
Republicans never cease to amaze me with their hypocrisy! always screaming smaller gobment and gobment stay out of my personal business! and then these clowns bore everybody with founding father quotes!! but I've been waiting for a republican president to deliver the goods!! what republican president ever created a surplus? what republican president ever made government smaller? Oh accept Regan cutting psychiatric care or totally ignoring the AIDS crisis! And Arizona creating this insane abortion bill sounds like government getting in our personal lives to me!
It's sad that a counrty that
It's sad that a counrty that is always trying to prop itself up as a world leader can't even see our women's rights ideas are from the stone age. But heres where I'm gonna get crucified! I partly blame women for some of their problems! Any woman that is a member of the republican party is contributing to the problem! Now wait I say that because over 30% of the gop are women! I know I know but any non caucasian male that votes republican needs professional help also.
You are absolutely right
You are absolutely right about Republican women. If the voted in their own interests, as their men do, we would have had the Equal Rights Amendment which would have made every state law designed to invade the privacy of women & subvert her decisions unconstitutional. We may still have had years of test cases, but a woman's inalienable rights to her own body would stop being a political debate. The ERA failed, supposedly, because the opposition ran a campaign that claimed all women's rights had been assured in the 14th Amendment(and a fear campaign that the govt would institute unisex bathrooms & a military draft on women). But as we see 30 yrs after the defeat of the ERA, woman do not have equal pay, equal medical privacy rights or equal treatment under the law. If not for the diligent efforts of pro-women organizations and those who fund them, the GOP Taliban would make this nation no safer than for women than theist Muslim nations.
The republican party has
The republican party has backed itself into a corner because their religious right idiots tell them what to say and when to speak!! most of these religious women are too damn old to have children of their own so it's easy for them to be abortion right zealots and the wealthy religious nuts will simply get an abortion by using the cash!! just another reason republicans are a joke!! These idiots can't even say publicly that the earth is more than 7,000 yrs old!!! This is exactly why are founding fathers wanted separation of church and state!! For you dim witted republican types try reading Thomas Jefferson's views on religion!
Don't bother even discussing
Don't bother even discussing abortion in the US. Any woman of any nationality can get an abortion on demand in a Canadian clinic by a qualified physician for the same cost as getting one in the USA but without harassment. If you are 18 or over, plan your vacation or spring break in anywhere in beautiful Canada. No invasion of privacy, no time restrictions. I hope Canada will become the tourist destination of choice for young American women regardless of reason. It's a beautiful country. More American women might want to consider emigrating there. It's always nice to give your tax money to a nation that respects you as an intelligent adult.
Good idea! Also, if your wife
Good idea! Also, if your wife is acting like a two-timing whore, swing by Iran and they will help you tie her up in a sheet, where you and all the townspeople can throw rocks at her until her brains leak out of her ears. It's great what you can do in other countries!!!
Yes, I'm sure Iran would be
Yes, I'm sure Iran would be the perfect country for you.
When are these half wit
When are these half wit politicians going to learn the American people want jobs, secure banks, and their pride in America back. We do not want a politicians idea of their utopia or their religious views we want them to work for the American people.
@ALL of You: We are talking
@ALL of You: We are talking about basic human rights.
A Human Person has supremacy over their own bodies.
It would violate every concept of humanity to deny a human Person the right to supremacy in all things regarding their own bodies.
This includes an eight month term fetus or anything else as determined by the Human person.
No matter how many supernatural theories or belief systems are out there.
Arizona will have to answer to the World Community for it's proposed violation of this basic Human right.
The United States of America has signed the "International Bill of Human Rights".
It is illegal to deny Human rights to any Human person because of "superstition".
Chuck
Well said, Chuck. If
Well said, Chuck. If anti-choice advocates are concerned about ending abortion they would stop fighting sex education programs in school and support Planned Parenthood(who prevents hundreds of thousands of abortions each year by providing contraceptives). Isn't everyone's goal to see that every child born is wanted & planned?
Here is all you need to know:
Here is all you need to know: abortion is legal in the USA. Abortion is a woman's choice. Abortion is between a woman, her Dr., and her God if she believes in one. All the rest need to mind their own business and most importantly government needs to stop trying to legislate morality. End of story. Bottom line.
Perfect response, kit-Kat
Perfect response, kit-Kat
Not the end of the story,
Not the end of the story, very presumptuous as if you have supreme knowledge of all things. How arrogant. Hanging "niggers" was also legal 150 years ago, what is your point? Sure abortion is legal now. Does being legal make something morally ok? Weak logic. If a man in Saudi Arabia kills his wife because she was raped, and it is legal for him to do so, is that between him, his sheik and Allah? Or is it murder? Law does not create morality.
So, no, knowing it is legal is NOT all we need to know. We need to know when an individual begins to exist and what protection they deserve (equal as in all life deserves to not be murdered?). I am not even speaking from a spiritual point of view. How about a scientific point of view, like when two zygotes combine two strands of DNA with 23 chromosomes each into a unique new strand of DNA with 46 chromosomes, is that a unique life form, or is it "part of the mother"? Different DNA, maybe different blood type, different heart, etc. You can call it a parasite but it is NOT the mother herself.
But tell yourself all those things if you need relief from the guilt long enough to sleep one more night...
@Peter in KC: Your arrogance
@Peter in KC: Your arrogance is only matched by your stupidity.
It's a basic Human right that a "Human being" has supremacy over their own body, to say otherwise is a comment from superstition and ignorance.
Where is your justification for denying a women supremacy over her body. When Intentional Law says otherwise.
The United States of America is a signatory of the Human rights commission.
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) is a declaration adopted by the United Nations General Assembly (10 December 1948 at Palais de Chaillot, Paris).
The Declaration arose directly from the experience of the Second World War and represents the first global expression of rights to which all human beings are inherently entitled.
Chuck
A fetus is not "a woman's
A fetus is not "a woman's body". It has a unique DNA sequence, maybe a different blood type and is, technically, half of the man that donated his 23 chromosomes, if you want to look at it that way. But since half of the chromsomes come from 2 different people, it is neither the one or the other. It is a one of a kind life form that has never existed and never will again.
International law can kiss my ass. So can American laws that violate COMMON LAW, which every decent human being understands to mean that we all have a right to exist, without having our life and liberty taken away. It was "legal" to own and even kill slaves anywhere in the world once. What is your point?? The law makes it "morally ok"? Do you think it was "OK" to kill slaves since it was legal?? Try some logic, please. In the best society, laws will reflect what is universally acceptable as equal human rights for every person. If that does not extend to the most vulnerable, then it has no real meaning for ANYONE's rights.
It used to be that only early pregnancy abortions were considered ok. We are up to partial birth now, you should try watching a video of that atrocity. And now, Obama opposed the born alive law because he believes that a baby that survives an abortion should be left to die, basically to starve or die of exposure, so we know that "infanticide" is the next logical step. Fortunately, enough conscience remains that most polititcians won't go for the next step. But that was true of abortion 50 years ago. It is just a matter of time. After that becomes accepted, then what? How far will people go.
History already tells us, right now, in countries all over the world, women and children are merely the property of the man, just like the fetus is considered the "property" of the woman, when she is merely the host for a budding life, a parasite to be sure, but human in fact and destiny.
So, please, laws are only there to allow evil people to commit crime under color of law. Spare me.
@Peter in KC: Just what
@Peter in KC:
Just what "Common Law" are you talking about?
I think your pulling shit out of your ass again.
Chuck
What about the 50% of
What about the 50% of pregnancies that are naturally aborted by the woman's body? Is that still, according to you, morally questionable? If the baby is unable to survive on its own outside of my womb, then I would consider it to be a part of me. That baby is connected to me. I am giving it oxygen, blood, and nutrients. I am housing it. If my body were to abort it at 12 weeks, it would, invariably, die. I believe that if a baby can survive outside of my body, then it is guaranteed all protection of the law, but if you have to use an ultrasound machine to see my tiny embryo that I am supporting with my body's resources because it can't thrive on its own, then that embryo is not a person yet.
If I were to abort at about 5 weeks, do you know that I would be passing a collection of cells known as a blastocyst? I don't remember anyone getting after me for exfoliating.
@Peter in KC: What used to be
@Peter in KC: What used to be is history.
A fetus (pronounced /ˈfiːtəs/; also spelled foetus, fœtus, faetus, or fætus, see below) is a developing mammal or other viviparous vertebrate after the embryonic stage and before birth.
A fetus does not have any Human rights, its not a person.
We all know you don't give a rats ass about anything but your delusional world view, that is why there is a Human Rights Commission, to put your kind in their place.
The operative word is before birth.
It's a part of the Women's body, after birth it's a person.
You can see the difference can't you.
If complications where to occur at eight months of pregnancy the women has supremacy over her own body and would make any decision she deems appropriate.
Regardless of a majority populations superstitions or beliefs in mythology.
The "Human rights" of the women is sovereign.
Laws are to keep people like you from imposing your superstitious beliefs on a women or anyone else.
Just like the young women that are being burned as witches in some Countries of Africa.
The sooner the World is rid of your kind the safer it will be.
Your thinking is delusional, try a mental health clinic near you.
Chuck
"A fetus does not have any
"A fetus does not have any Human rights"
Why don't you pick on someone your own size, you bully?
@John Allman: A fact is a
@John Allman: A fact is a Fact is a fact. Refute it but don't use AD Hominem fallacy's.
Chuck
@peter thank you for the
@peter thank you for the biology class but 'm assuming you're a male like myself don't you think since we''ll never get pregnant maybe we should let women make discussions about their reproductive system??? The majority of angry hostile lunatics anti abortion nuts are white men!! are you guilty? If you care so damn much about the unborn why don't you use you're superior intellect and give us your solution to abortion! Just like Santorum's insane phony religious AS* if his 14 yr old daughter got pregnant I guarantee you that teen would be fetus free within one day! Republicans are pathetic hypocrites and anybody that takes them seriously are just as screwed
A fetus is not part of the
A fetus is not part of the reproductive system, sounds like you still need more biology class.
What do you mean "solution to abortion"? What are you looking for? Escape from your own irresponsibility?
I agree, republicans ARE hypocrites. What is your point there? I am not talking POLITICS, I am talking HUMAN RIGHTS. I could care less what crappy party you associate with, murder is always murder.
"angry hostile lunatics anti abortion nuts". Yes, you are right. I should be calm and polite while 1 MILLION human beings are murdered in the womb each year. But it is perfectly sane to get in a fist fight in a BAR over a FOOTBALL game. This country is full of stupid white males all right, mostly baseball and football fans (throw in any other major league sport you like).
This country is upside down. We obsess over stupid crap like pro sports and celebrity TV and think nothing of snuffing out a life because "we can't afford it" or "it will mess up my career". This is the slippery slope. Take some history classes while you are back in school. Then you might have a chance to see where this is taking us.
@peter in KC maybe just maybe
@peter in KC maybe just maybe if you calm down and act civilized maybe you'd actually comprehend my extremely simply request for a solution. First attempt at a pre and post abortion alternatives -A- sex education in public schools as earlier as the 6th grade but of course as usual the party of brainless idiots fought that great idea! B- Voluntarty consulting by a trainined professiona lfor any woman that is seeking an abortion. C- Get local churches together and other civic minded organizations to adopt babies that these women can't financially and or emotionally can support. Listen @peter in KC I'm going to say it again!! I'm a male I'll NEVER have any clue what a pregnant woman actually feels! my suggestions are probably as idiotic and pie in the sky but my point is why don't WE men back the hell off and let women decide what is and what isn't good for their own bodies!?
@ knight4444: Your ideas
@ knight4444: Your ideas have some merit, sex ed is one. But to include misogynistic organizations, with their superstitious dogma and mythological world view is unrealistic.
As far a Women going for counseling , your assuming a women just wakes up one morning and decides to have an abortion, this shows your frame of mind to be paternalistic and you have a male dominated world view.
There are other reasons for a women to chose an abortion not just financial and emotional, which I'm sure are the least of the reasons.
When women put off having children and get an education, the whole society benefits along with the women's family. It lowers superstitious and mythological beliefs, provides higher income and a chain of better educated and employed families.
This is exactly the opposite of what the misogynistic organizations want.
Ignorant and poor suffering people are their fertile recruitment grounds.
Look at Northern Europe with it's high atheist populations. They have the highest standards of living in the world.
Chuck
@Peter in KC: You are a
@Peter in KC: You are a confused person.
Your statement: " I am talking HUMAN RIGHTS. I could care less what crappy party you associate with, murder is always murder. "angry hostile lunatics anti abortion nuts". Yes, you are right. I should be calm and polite while 1 MILLION human beings are murdered in the womb each year".
Lets look at your thinking here:
1.) Human Rights are for human persons, not a fetus.
Fetus:
A fetus (also spelled foetus, fœtus, faetus or fætus. is a developing mammal or other viviparous vertebrate after the embryonic stage and before birth.
Person hood:
The overwhelming focus on the issue of personhood in abortion debates has been an alibi for depriving women of their own rights as persons.
All discussions taking place now about "person hood" are being directed by organized groups of superstitious people who believe in a Mythology that is non-sense at best.
Murder:
Is the unlawful taking of a human life.
Since a fetus is not a human being, by any definition, then it cannot be murder.
Mythology and superstition have no place in a modern society.
Your statement:
"Take some history classes while you are back in school. Then you might have a chance to see where this is taking us".
You must be referring to Nazi Germany.
Some facts that you must have missed in your education.
1.) Nazi Germany was a religious State, Catholic mostly, and abortion at anytime was against the law.
2.) The Killing of the Jews was the inspiration of "Martin Luther" The founder of protestantism. It also was not discourage by the the catholic church in the 1930's and early 40's.
3.) Prayer was mandatory in German public schools.
4.) The German Army wore belt buckles with "God is with us" engraved on them.
5.) Hitler was a devote catholic who considered the priesthood in his early years.
Chuck
"a fetus is not a human
"a fetus is not a human being, by any definition"
That assertion is simply absurd. What is a foetus, if he or she is not "a human being"? Scotch mist?
@John Allman: You answer my
@John Allman: You answer my post with a question, very strange that you don't know the obvious. A fetus is a fetus, if it where a human being it would be a human being.
Did I type slow enough for you to read it.
Chuck
"Human Rights are for human
"Human Rights are for human persons, not a fetus. " HUMAN fetus. Your opinion. "Blacks" were once considered sub-human. We evolve socially from slavery, women as property, and so on. Time for you to evolve. I do not approach personhood from a "religious" point of view, but a scientific one. The human fetus is unique in DNA. FACT. They are not "part of the mother" but are parasitic in early form. FACT. Just because a human fetus does not have personhood now does not mean they won't eventually. I am sure any KKK member would still agree that Negros are sub-human...
"Since a fetus is not a human being, by any definition, then it cannot be murder." Opinion, time to evolve.
"Mythology and superstition have no place in a modern society." When did I evoke any mythology or superstition in any statement? That is your assumption because my scientific view happens to coincide with their religious view.
"You must be referring to Nazi Germany." No, you are. I never mentioned or inferred it. History is full of genocide based on race, origin, color, creed, gender, etc. The Nazi's are actually one of the lesser examples, just well known because it is in living memory. And your bringing it up is simply an attempt to invoke Godwin's law, which actually invalidates your own credibility.
Come on over to the right hand side of the evolutionary chart and transcend the human species into the next level where ALL forms of murder are condemned.
@opeter in KC: Your argument
@opeter in KC: Your argument doesn't even warrant an answer.
Chuck
Guilt. Cry me a river. We
Guilt. Cry me a river. We hear all the reason, when people really don't care. The real issue is to eliminate the need for abortion.
Well said!
Well said!
The only reason the
The only reason the republican representatives are against abortion is because there'll be less soldiers to die for their stupid cause.
They will talk about this,
They will talk about this, but why not be honest & impartial? Do they tell about how Obama (before becoming president) gave his approval... on three occasions...to try to make it legal for doctors to deny medical help to babies born alive after an attempt at aborting them? No.
Doctors were going to be leaving them to die even in the third trimester..with no care. One woman also has told about a doctor taking a live aborted "fetus" (baby)...with fingers trying to grab ahold of something...and stabbing it in the back of the neck to kill it! Third trimester would include up until just before natural birth -- like if the mother-to-be decided to abort the baby 3 days before it were to be born even,...then they could...& if it survived, they could have just left it to die, uncared for!
If Obama is that cold-hearted, I say the people who liken him to Hitler cannot be far from the truth. I have read that Hitler allowed cruel experiments on babies & children. Doesn't seem so different to me. I want no more of these evil people in our govt.
@ HolySmokes: Your opinion
@ HolySmokes: Your opinion is not an adequate substitution for verifiable facts.
Please site your source's for this fairy tale.
Chuck
" One woman also has told
" One woman also has told about a doctor taking a live aborted "fetus" (baby)...with fingers trying to grab ahold of something...and stabbing it in the back of the neck to kill it!"
That was a nurse witnessing a "partial birth abortion". The doctor partially delivered the baby, then while most of the head was still inside, inserted scissors into the base of the baby's skull and opened them to scramble his brains. The baby reacted, as would be expected, by grasping and flailing. The nurse changed her mind about the morality of abortion.
And that was before Obama was in office.
@gregandrene: Please site
@gregandrene: Please site your sources for this story.
Verifiable facts stop viscous rumor mongering.
They also will prevent you from being sued for spreading false information.
Chuck
So....you don't mind killing
So....you don't mind killing babies like that...as long as you catch them before they get all the way out? Sick!!
@HolySmokes: Sick, is
@HolySmokes:
Sick, is trying to have supremacy over a women's body.
Especially for a silly superstition.
A basic Human Right is that a Human Being has supremacy over their own body.
Chuck
At the moment of conception a
At the moment of conception a women is considered to be 2 weeks pregnant. That is just how gestational age is determined. The first day of a woman's LMP (last menstrual period) is easier to identify than the actual date of conception, that is why the 2 weeks before you're pregnant are counted. It's not some crazy, outlandish law, it is just making a law out of what is already widely used and accepted. The new AZ law is consistent with current medical practices. It does matter if how the law and most OBs determine gestational age does not coincide with how the abortion clinics decide gestational age, that is a pretty big deal. The law isn't changing anything, except that Planned parenthood determines gestational age based on the date of conception, which is basically impossible to figure out, even if you're using tracking methods, not based on LMP like everyone else in the world.
@ MeryMellen: All of what you
@ MeryMellen: All of what you posted may well be true, but immaterial. It's a basic Human right to have supremacy over your own body.
The Governor of Arizona will be subject to the Human Rights Commission, which the US is a Founding member, for charges of human rights abuse charges, if She charges any women under this illegal act..
Chuck
MeryMellen wrote: "At the
MeryMellen wrote:
"At the moment of conception a women is considered to be 2 weeks pregnant. That is just how gestational age is determined. The first day of a woman's LMP (last menstrual period) is easier to identify than the actual date of conception, that is why the 2 weeks before you're pregnant are counted. It's not some crazy, outlandish law, it is just making a law out of what is already widely used and accepted. The new AZ law is consistent with current medical practices."
Chuck wrote:
"All of what you posted may well be true, but immaterial."
MeryMellen posting remains the posting that is most relevant to Michael Allen's silly report.
Right to life is also a basic
Right to life is also a basic human right.
@ MeryMellen: Your right, it
@ MeryMellen: Your right, it is. But the birth needs to take place for a human being to exist.
No amount of mythology and superstitious dogma can change that fact.
Chuck
"the birth needs to take
"the birth needs to take place for a human being to exist"
That is a perfect example of "mythology and superstitious dogma". That assertion is simply indicative of a poster who has lost all touch with reality.
@John Allman: Your post is
@John Allman: Your post is asinine, look at simple biology. That's why birth certificates are issued, to show a new human member of society is here.
Chuck
Yea, I've seen you copy and
Yea, I've seen you copy and paste the definition of fetus from Wikipedia a few times already on here. There is nothing in that definition that explicitly states that a fetus is not a human being, it's a very weak argument. Nothing about a baby changes during the birthing process. I'm saying that a human life is formed at the moment of conception. That is precisely the moment that the sperm and egg begin to form a unique set of DNA that has never existed before. Within weeks this life will have a heartbeat, it is not just an extension of the mother. Everything about the baby developing inside of a woman is unique to that child. That is scientific, not just religious teaching. But you're saying that slipping through the birth canal makes it a life, that sounds more like superstition than what I believe.
I realize I'm not going to change your mind, and people on here are going to grow tired of arguing with you when you keep throwing back the same irrelevant statements. You may be the "last man standing"; just know that it does not mean you've "won" or that you are right. I still have the truth on my side. I give up on trying to convince you of that.
I can't help but feel this is a bit of a personal subject for you. I hope that when I say "Abortion is wrong because it's murder." You are not just hearing me condemn the millions of people who have made a decision to have an abortion. I realize that for some this is a very difficult decision. It's not my place to judge other people for their mistakes. I truly am sorry for anyone who has ever felt abortion was their only option. If this is personal for you, for whatever reason, just know that arguing your point with a bunch of strangers is not going to make you right in the end.