- Home
- Politics
- Entertainment
- Sports
- Health
- Religion
- Society
- Tech
- Money
- People
- Science
- Galleries
Politically Correct Oprah has 'Bias' Towards Gay Marriage
So a day after the Joy Behar show, in which feminists rant and rave
about Bart Stupak, Oprah has Ellen DeGeneres on with her new wife. Yes,
that's right: wife. Portia de Rossi -- who was born Mandy Lee Rogers in
1973 -- and Ellen were recently pronounced...wife and wife.
I know gay marriage is a hot topic, but it shouldn't be. We have far more fish to fry in this country. Did you know that just 2.9% of Americans
older than 18 identify as either lesbian, gay, or bisexual? Even if you
factor in the folks who are reluctant to admit their sexual
orientation, the figure still doesn't come close to way the media
represents it. The media force gay marriage down Americans' throats as
if there's some huge conspiracy against gay people in this country.
Personally,
gay marriage is like the issue of abortion. I have feelings about it,
but it's not something that gets me all riled up. I believe when it
comes to these matters, the people -- via the states -- must decide.
Still.
I couldn't help but be distracted by Oprah's program. I was actually
flipping channels after the end of the only show I do catch during the
day -- Barefoot Contessa on Food Network -- and stood there somewhat
mesmerized. I tried really hard to be non-judgmental. I tried really
hard to look at these two women -- one of whom is clearly a lesbian and
one of whom is clearly not (just as I predicted Ellen's former love,
Anne Heche, wasn't) -- like they were just another happily married
couple. After all, that's what the media tells Americans homosexuals
are: just like the rest of us.
They are not just like the rest of us.
Which
doesn't mean we shouldn't be tolerant of gay people -- and by that I
mean respectful. Quite frankly, homosexuality makes sense to me. To me,
it stands to reason that 100% of any population won't come out exactly
the same. It makes sense that there will always be people who get too
much testosterone or too much estrogen. But there's very little
concrete proof (that I'm aware of) about the whole nature/nurture issue
re homosexuality. I just happen to believe some people are born gay.
But
just because most people have a different reaction to watching Ellen
and Portia get married than they do watching a man and a woman get
married doesn't make them bigoted. You're just not going to see tears
in viewers' eyes as they watch a woman walk down the aisle looking
lovingly at...another woman. You're just not.
But that was
Oprah's reaction, of course -- which demonstrates a clear bias toward
gay marriage. Personally, I don't care what Oprah believes. But many
people do -- which has the effect of making some people feel as if
there's something wrong with them if they don't get that "Aw" feeling.
And that I do have a problem with.
Sign up for the OV Daily Newsletter





Comments
Gracious
Obviously a billion things could and should be said to Suzanne, and many already have, but I'll stick to one thing. If you think Oprah shouldn't be able to approve of something you don't care for simply because other people do care what she thinks, you're ridiculous. Also, if people feel like there's something wrong with them because they don't get gushy about everything Oprah gets gushy about, those people put way too much stock in one chick's opinion. I'm a lesbian and think Ellen and Portia's wedding was beautiful, but I didn't tear up or anything, and I don't feel there's something wrong with me.
3%?
In 1967 the supreme court case Loving v. Virginia (appropriate name don't you think?) once and for all got rid of ridiculous laws saying whites and blacks couldn't marry. At that time blacks made up about 11% of the population but I think we can safely assume that the percentage that wanted to marry a white person was likely considerably smaller than that. Let's take an extremely generous number and say a total of say 3% of the population actually wanted to be part of an interracial marriage . I don't know about you but I'm glad that those people can now legally get married and the ignorant bigots didn't win out.
I'll agree with you on one point. Gay marriage shouldn't be such a big issue. The media shouldn't spend such an inordinate amount of time reporting on it. The legislature shouldn't spend so much time arguing about it. Gays shouldn't be spending so much time protesting and writing letters about it. There is one thing that we, as a nation, could do to save all this time so we could redirect our attention, time and energy on to bigger issues that affect a larger percentage of the population. Legalize gay marriage .
People are funny. If they're getting a raw deal they get all pissy about it. If they see that everyone else gets the same rights but they're getting screwed they get all uptight. People who are getting screwed out of their rights are going to fight until they've got the same rights as everyone else. The only way to stop them is to give them the equal rights that the constitution promises.
You're surprised that Oprah has a bias towards gay marriage? Of course she does! Everyone is allowed to have their own bias about it. You just aren't allowed to take your bias and make it a law against other people.
Personally I don't really get an aww moment when watching weddings of people I don't know. That doesn't mean those people shouldn't get married, it just means I don't have any emotional bond with them. It certainly doesn't mean we should pass a law saying they can't get married.
Oh, and BTW, if you think you can tell for sure whether someone is gay by looking at them on TV you need to try a little harder to be non-judgemental.
1049 reasons
Marriage equality only impacts the Americans who are denied that constitutional rights.
Did you hear about what happened in Rhode Island. Last week the governor vetoed a bill that would have given gay and lesbian Americans the right to bury their dead partners.
Last year a Rhode Island citizen was told he could not claim the dead body of the man he had married in Connecticut. It took him months to cut through the red tape, and even after he finally was given his dead husband's body, the Rhode Island Crematorium company refused to cremate the body. Only Massachusetts would do this.
Just about one year later, the Rhode Island governor vetoed a law that would have made all that red tape disappear.
This is just one reason why marriage equality matters.
Here are 1049 other reasons
http://www.gao.gov/new.items /d04353r.pdf
Now if you were denied 1049 rights, and required to pay taxes to pay for other American to have rights they denied you, would you think that is important?
It isn't not a non-sequitur
I think this article speaks a singular truth that no one is willing to concede.
The statement "I know gay marriage is a hot topic, but it shouldn't be" is absolutely true. Equating the issue of gay marriage with abortion wasn't a bad call, either.
To gay people, and to straight people who hate gay people, this hill might be the one you're willing to die on. Good for you, except you're doing what political elitists expect (and want) you to do.
Here in America, politicians realize that we are willing to kill each other over moral values, as opposed to over land, money , and/or power. The more the media harangues about gay marriage, abortion, etc., the less coverage there is about stuff that should matter to us, like where our taxes are going, or why the U.S. dollar has become such a colossal joke.
I don't think the article was meant to be anti-gay. Suzanne has a point when she says we have bigger things to worry about.
Does anyone really think that congress cares about the "don't ask, don't tell" policy of the military ? Only if it gets them re-elected. The first meeting that the President attends after every election is centered around getting re-elected. They talk about what issues to focus on and when. Why hasn't Obama repealed the "don't ask don't tell" policy yet as promised? I'm betting he'll get on it a few months before re-election comes up. Sure, he COULD do it now, but it wouldn't garner as much popularity.
Nonsense?
"I think this article speaks a singular truth that no one is willing to concede."
Which is?
"Suzanne has a point when she says we have bigger things to worry about."
Then why does she worry about it? She obviously does when she writes a long article on the subject.
Debating about Suzanne isn't helpful.
I'm not arguing that this article is remarkably well written. I said that she has a point, and that is, the gay debate is outdated and increasingly irrelevant.
Why are we debating over gay rights amongst ourselves so viciously? Why is everyone attacking the author of this article for having an opinion? Her opinion isn't dangerous, because it doesn't really hold any power. Instead of asking ourselves if gay people should have basic civil rights (over and over and over again when we all already know the answer) we should be asking ourselves what the hell Obama and Congress and the Senate are doing about it. Remember, Obama could repeal almost all of the anti-gay restrictions with the stroke of a pen if he wanted to.
But he doesn't want to. Not yet, anyway, because he is a good politician. And like all good politicians, his actions (or inaction) are calculated to gain as much power as possible. And the entertainment industry, as well as the rest of the media , might raise an eyebrow to that once in awhile.
I don't begrudge Oprah for supporting her friend publicly. However, the woman is worth $2.4 billion. In a land where that kind of money = national respect, she could easily put pressure on the Obama administration to make some promised changes. Instead, she acts like everything is just hunky-dory in the gay community in front of millions of viewers, which I have to say, is wholly underwhelming. And she's just the tip of the iceberg. If you read Newsweek, AP, the Washington Post, or watch any of the national news networks, the media continues to lambaste the religious right as the culprit for gay inequality, when nothing could be further from the truth. The military 's "don't ask don't tell policy" was created (and is currently being enforced) by the government , not religious zealots.
As far as I know, no church can deprive any couple from certain legal rights, such as tax deductions, or hospital visitation rights. However, the government can, so I guess I fail to see why gay inequality in a strictly legal sense is any religious person's fault. You could cite prop 8 , but then you could also blame the state of CA for amending their constitution in a ridiculously stupid way.
Like I said, the government is perfectly poised, and has PROMISED, to change the laws concerning gay rights. CAN they? Yes. WILL they? Maybe. Eventually. If it's in their best interest.
Debating about Suzanne is very helpful
We are debating gay rights beause racist bigots like this woman want to take away their rights, and argues that we should.
What on earth does Obama have to do with anything? This was about this bigoted woman complaining that she disapproved of Opera's lack of racist bigotry on TV.
The DADT policy was created as a compromise because of religious zealots. But this is not about DADT either.
Suzanne is being attacked because of her hypocrisy, ignorance and bigotry. If opinions aren't dangerous, then opinions that are attacks aren't dangerous either.
Oprah can help gays by portraying them as perfectly normal people. Your understanding of the issue is sadly simplified and tabloid.
Meanwhile, in the 1950s...
Some time in the 1950s, after watching African Americans talking about voting rights on the Ed Sullivan Show, Suzy Wanka wrote an angry article as a response. Here are some excerpts from her article:
#Start quote#
"I know black voting rights is a hot topic, but it shouldn't be. We have far more fish to fry in this country. Did you know that just 10% of Americans are either black or mixed race ? Even if you factor in the folks who are reluctant to admit their race, the figure still doesn't come close to way the media represents it. The media force black voting rights down Americans' throats as if there's some huge conspiracy against black people in this country.
...
I couldn't help but be distracted by the Ed Sullivan Show. I was actually flipping channels after the end of the only show I do catch during the day -- I Love Lucy -- and stood there somewhat mesmerized. I tried really hard to be non-judgemental. I tried really hard to look at these ni... black... African Americans - one of whom is clearly 100% black and one of whom is mixed-race (just as I predicted Malcolm X was quarter white) -- like they were people just like whites. After all, that's what the media tells Americans blacks are: just like the rest of us.
They are not just like the rest of us.
...
But just because most people have a different reaction to watching black people on TV than they do watching normal white folks doesn't make them bigoted.
...
But that was Sullivan's reaction of course -- which demonstrates a clear bias towards blacks. Personally, I don't care what Ed Sullivan believes. But many people do -- which has the effect of making some people feel as if there's something wrong with them if they don't consider blacks to be human beings."
#End quote#
Thank you Oprah!
As someone who grew up in a time period when there were not gay people on television , I am so grateful Oprah and others are bringing attention to our existence. When I was a teenager and realized I was gay, I thought I was the only one in the entire world. It was a difficult time to say the least.
Fortunately we live in a more open and loving country than even 10 years ago.
Like millions of other gay people in this country, I have a wonderful partner who I am making a life with. It is unfortunate that people like this author are grossed out by my relationship, but as long as my family has the same legal protections afforded to heterosexual families, I'm happy.
We still have a long way to go, but opinions like the one above are one the wrong side of history.
All families should be treated equally under the law -- and they soon will.
Thank you Oprah for your kind and open heart!
Both sides
of this argument are missing the larger point. Why is government involved in anyone’s marriage ? Why should a taxpaying adult have to ask a bureaucracy permission (license) to marry? Abolish the government’s role in marriage period. If you feel the need to make your union legally binding, get a lawyer and write a contract.
dead on!
until recently that's what marriages were, social contracts between two parties. this idea of marriage for love is relatively new in the grand scale of things. instead of fighting for equal marriage for all we should be abolishing marriage as a institution with the exception of religious ceremony, cause we really can't legislate that, and personal contracts. if marriage is a personal thing then we should truly make it personal, and not public policy.
Wow.
Where DOES this site find their "experts?" This entire article makes no sense at all, nor does the comment made by the expert herself blaming the media .
Really?!
"I tried really hard to look at these two women -- one of whom is clearly a lesbian and one of whom is clearly not"
Suzanne...do you truly believe that your magical eyesight allows you to detect lesbians? Do you think that just because a woman is beautiful and feminine, she can't possibly be a lesbian? Are you really that ignorant?
Does the same thing work for your male gay-detector? If a man is masculine, he can't possible be gay? Do you assume that a man can only be homosexual if he's like Jack Macfarlane on Will and Grace? Can a woman only be a lesbian if she acts like a lumberjack?
Suzanne, you really need to open your eyes and expose yourself to the ACTUAL gay community instead of sticking to the media focuses. You're making yourself look like an ignorant bigot.
bigot
Suzanne has not made herself look like an ignorant bigot. She is one of hundreds of thousands of heterosupremacist tyrannical theocRATs who believes that Americans rights depend on her approval, acceptance, tolerance (respect) and agreement.
"Clear Bias"?
Oprah has a clear tolerance for gay marriage , not a clear bias , which would indicate a preference for gay marriage. Tolerance is not bias.
clear equality
Maybe what Oprah has is an understanding that equal rights do not depend on her opinions at all. My rights do not depend on her or anyone else being tolerant of me, or whether or not she has a bias one way or the other. Until all Americans realize this, we will continue to have heterosupremacist rules in America.
Re: Clear Equality
Well put, planetspinz!
What are you wanting to change?
I can't figure out what the point of the article is. The author seems annoyed at Oprah for being publicly happy that her two (by the way, gay) friends got married, or maybe even publicly supportive of gay marriage . Apparently she feels that gay marriage is "not an issue" and it's somehow wrong or unfair that Oprah is publicly supporting a "non-issue"? Oprah is a talk show host, not a journalist. Of course she displays emotions and expresses opinions on her show. It's not intended to be an objective reporting of facts that represent Americans .
The statistic the author uses jumps out at me right away, because it's roughly the same as the prevalence of vegetarianism in the US. About 3 percent of the US population eats no meat /fish/fowl. Should we complain every time a restaurant offers a vegetarian option, or every time a cooking show teaches how to cook a meat-free dish? Is this demonstrating a bias towards minority vegetarianism? Should it be avoided because it makes meat-eaters feel guilty that they don't also enjoy a meat-free dish?
It seems to me the real issue is that the author is dealing with some guilt issues of her own and wants to blame Oprah for making her feel guilty, rather than examining why she's feeling so guilty about her own behaviors and stances.
where was this statistic
??? seriously, this statistic is completely false. Census showed last year at least 6% and the statistic increases each year!
statistics
Statistics do not matter at all and are a distraction. Every individual American must have unconditional constitutional equality, no matter how many of us exist.
My one response to readers
Dear Readers,
I generally don't respond to comments only because when I do the back-and-forth never seems to end, and I don't have time to address all the points here. Anyone is free to google No Bull Mom and make comments there. I am more likely to respond on my site.
At any rate, for the record I am not for or against gay marriage . It is a complex subject, and people have good points on both sides of the fence. I am sympathetic to both of these sides and feel no anger or injustice has been done in America.
Clearly some gay people feel otherwise. but not all. Not every gay person believes in gay marriage.
Gay marriage is not a subject I plan to take up any time soon (and no, I have no religious conflict here.) It was one post. My issue is with media bias , not gay marriage; and my point is that Oprah's show is absolutely driving a liberal agenda.
My friend's neighbor was in the Oprah audience recently and was the lone individual who stood up to say something agsinst universal health care . Her comment was edited out for the actual program.
The media is the issue here, not gay marriage.
Oprah is not media
She's not a journalist or a reporter. She's not expected to be fair and balanced. Oprah is an entertainer. She's got her own show. She can say whatever she wants and push any agenda she wants on her show. If people are bothered by the agenda they can change the channel. If enough people change the channel she loses her show. Expecting an entertainer with their own show to be unbiased is just foolish.
equality
The real issue is equality, not marriage . Equality must be unconditional in America and never based on the approval, acceptance, tolerance or in your words respect, or agreement of heterosupremacist tyrannical theocRATS who go to the polls and vote on bigot ballots against equality. The media is covering the issue of equal rights for all Americans , and you seem to object to that.
As for Oprah, she owns her own show and the First Amendment that gives you and me the right to free speech and freedom of association, gives her the right on broadcast television to air a show on any topic she wants to. Of course that same freeom of association gives you the right not to watch her show.
You also have the right to be a tyrannical theocRAT who thinks that only those Americans you deem worthy of constitutional rights should have them. Unfortunately you can join bigot ballot lynch mobs and deny equal rights based on your bigotry.
Fortunately for the rest of us, the media still has freedom to publish and broadcast news about your lynch mob's tyranny, and Oprah can broadcast her show about this.
Seee that's how what you do unto others will be done unto works.
Dear Susan
OK, I got it - you're not taking a position on gay marriage . You ARE saying "...that Oprah's show is absolutely driving a liberal agenda."
Question:
So what?
Please tell us something we don't already know.
Are you:
a)upset that Oprah is a liberal and promotes liberal views on her show?
b)jealous that the "liberal agenda" has such a strong voice in Oprah?
c) tired of the homos shoving their message down your throat every time you turn on the television ?
d) convinced that the whole "gay marriage" thing is not really an issue worthy of debate but instead it's an invention of the liberal media elites designed to create disharmony and disunity among the citizens of this great country of ours?
Please enlighten us: what's your REAL point ?
So what are you whining about?
"Personally, gay marriage is like the issue of abortion . I have feelings about it, but it's not something that gets me all riled up."
So why are you writing so much about it?
"After all, that's what the media tells Americans homosexuals are: just like the rest of us.
They are not just like the rest of us."
Oh, but they are. They are human beings, they just happen to fall in love with the same sex. It's disgusting of you to claim that they aren't "like the rest of us".
What are "the rest of us" like, exactly? I probably have more in common with a random gay person than a bigot like you!
"The media is the issue here, not gay marriage."
Actually, the issue here is that you are so bigoted that you cannot stand to see two people of the same sex in love on TV. Truly pathetic.
not every gay person beleives
???? wow, u r serious.... Stop posting, you are just a waste of time >.>
No, not every gay person believes in marriage.
Talk about stereotypes!
http://www.gaysdefendmarriage.com /
confused
Wow, the author really shoes the lack of ability to step into someone else's shoes. On top of that, all of her arguments are based on a world view that is best expressed as "everything revolves around her."
- "I believe when it comes to these matters, the people -- via the states -- must decide."
Allowing a minority to have the same rights and protections as everyone else in the country should be left up to the people to decide, state by state? In other words, a woman's right to vote , if someone can own a slave, or if someone in a wheelchair should have access to ride the bus should be left up to the author, and every one else to decide. Is that really how we want our country to work?
- "We have far more fish to fry in this country."
Really? You are arguing that we shouldn't be extending equal rights and protections for all because it isn't important enough?
- "one of whom is clearly a lesbian and one of whom is clearly not (just as I predicted Ellen's former love...)"
What an ugly trait. Do you often run around saying "I told you so!" if you happen to be right? How about letting these two live their lives in peace. Perhaps wish them well and move on to more important things, like stuff that actually pertains to your life?
- "They are not just like the rest of us."
Yes they are. All you are doing is taking society and breaking it up into two groups - gay and straight - and then dramatically stating that they are not the same. This is true for any subgroup you create with society. Mormons vs. Catholics, black vs white, rich vs poor, blind vs sighted, etc. What you are proposing is that we focus on the differences between these groups when in reality, we all pretty much want the same thing. Love, safety, and stability.
Pitting groups against each other is a very dangerous game. Right now, it just happens to be that you are in the group that has the most protections, but the likelihood of that remaining so during your lifetime is slim. Old age will hit and the potential for disabilities are high in anyone's life time. Suddenly you'll find yourself in a group where everyone else is deciding for you what rights you should have. Think about that before you start playing the "us vs them" card. The more people buy into that idea, the more likely it is that this type of mindset will spread to other groups.
- "Most people have a different reaction to watching Ellen and Portia get married than they do watching a man and a woman get married doesn't make them bigoted."
No one said that was the case. I that this came from inside you. Perhaps you are feeling bigoted from your reaction? That's about you, not the rest of the world.
- "Oprah's reaction, of course -- which demonstrates a clear bias toward gay marriage ."
There's no such thing as a "bias toward gay marriage." There's only a bias towards equality for all, support of love, and the freedom for people to live their lives peacefully or a bias against giving everyone in our country the same rights and protections as everyone else.
It's okay, Suzanne
I am gay and I am in a committed lifelong relationship with another woman. I'm okay if you can't cry at gay weddings, I don't cry at straight weddings either. Suzanne, not all gay people are mean towards people who fail to understand our side. Some of us understand that simply because you disagree does not make you a bigot. I personally cannot understand the black community and I'm okay with that. It is only when I vote to enable slavery in this country that I cross a line. Gay people are okay with disagreements as long as those disagreements don't lead to the irrational restriction of our lives under the guise of religion . When the majority oppresses the minority (saying that's it's just 2.9 shows how messed up that mentality really is) because they can, that's wrong. Remember when black people used to be counted as three fifths of a human? That was wrong too.
If you truly are just an ignorant person who does not understand but wants to understand, your life will lead you to places where you will find gay people to show you that it is not the same as having sex with a dog or touching a little boy. However, if what you are searching for are ways to justify your biases, unfortunately, you will also find that too. The comfort I have is that God is watching all of us.
Don't worry, you're not a bigot for not being able to empathize with our cause or see the validity of our love. Just don't go voting against something you don't understand simply because you don't understand. You can at least try to understand we are humans and we are Americans and we deserve the same rights. I also think you need to examine yourself more and see the biases that you have. You are entitled to your opinion and so is Oprah. What it showed me was not that she was biased but that she had a heart.
If you are swayed by religious reasons, remember that Christ said that the two greatest commandments were to love Him and to love one another, every other law hinged upon those two. Also remember that Christ hated the Pharisees and scolded them because they were able to find ways to justify NOT loving people because they were following the "law." Christians who ignoring loving gay people (the act of love, not just the word) are acting as the Pharisees did. God *is* watching and if i was a Pharisees, I would be very scared.
Good luck to you. I hope you're a true seeker of truth and that you will stop at nothing until you find it.
Amazing!
Kylen12,
You are really an amazing optimist and generous spirit. I enjoyed reading your reply to this (viscerally) offensive article. I found that your sound logic and open analysis regarding the authors position (for example, you are not a bigot . . . until you vote away the rights of the minority) left room for the author to, if she wished, change her point of view.
I saw all of this because I would like to quote you in the future when I find myself in the company of someone who I care about, yet is unable to meet me half-way on contentious issues. Thank you very much for sharing your wisdom!
biased?
I fail to see Oprah's bias in this... a friend of hers got married, that's it.
Not liking something is no reason to discriminate against it.
It's time.
Congrats to all the couples who came to CT to wed this summer from all across the country. And kudos to CT. And to Oprah too.
Cheers, Joe Mustich,
Justice of the Peace,
Washington, Connecticut, USA.
And let's not forget that marriage is firstly a civil matter in America, as marriage licenses are issued by and recorded in town halls not church halls, or mosques or temples.
And to the marriage police and sexually phobic, please find something else to spend your time on, as life's just to short. Find love.
PS:
Gays and non-gay Jewish Americans make up a small percentage of the population, but their contributions to America are huge, in my opinion. Ditto for African Americans, etc etc...
Only in America
As a Newfoundlander and a Canadian, I am horrified by the homophobic, Bible-centric attitude of many Americans . It amazes me that a country that put a man on the moon and continues to make great contributions to science , still read the Bible as if it descended from the sky into some preacher's hand's - it didn't!
You crowd south of the border should learn a little more tolerance - isn't that what your Jeffersonian so-called democracy is supposed to be about?
Live and let live, that's what I say.
Methinks the Columnist Protests Too Much
What was the point of this column, I'm asking myself. Was it really to espouse the view that Oprah is politically correct? If so, you spend a whole lot of time in rationalization to make this simple point.
You tell us, for example, that gay people make up such a small percentage of the overall population of the U.S. that we shouldn't feel any urgency in providing them civil rights. You tell us that gay people are "just not like the rest of us," by which you mean not like you. You tell us that Portia di Rossi and Anne Heche aren't gay because they *are* just like the rest of us and not like the one "who is clearly a lesbian"), and you tell us we're not going to see an emotional reaction to the union of two women . Seems like an awful lot of justification for a simple point like "Oprah is politically correct," doesn't it?
I wonder what other point you might have had in mind, what other message you might have intended to convey in this fluffy little opinion piece. Hmmmmm....
To the writer
Even if you are correct and only 3% of americans are homosexual. That would mean that over 9 million americans are denied the opportunity to marry the person of their choice. Just yesterday the rhode island govenor vetoed a bill that would allow for same sex partners to make funeral arrangements for their partner. You don't have to get that "aw" feeling. I just want to be able to take care of my family, including my two children within the same legal framework that you can.
Oh Hell
Oh Hell, why not let Joe marry his chihuahua and Fred marry his NAMBLA pal who is only 7 years old and let 2 cows marry just because they happen to hang out in the back corner of the pasture together all the time. I mean - we should just let every living thing do whatever the heck it wants to. Sounds GREAT to me by golly
dont worry none of us will want to marry u
Let me enlighten you a bit molesting children is a crime punishable by law in any state in the nation being gay is not a crime let me make that statement very clear to you one more time being gay is not a crime as a lesbian and a Mother I am enraged that you would compare me to someone from NAMBLA or someone that practices beastiality that was a very ignorant and hatefilled statement. You think your being cute or funny with the statement of joes chihuahua but its not even original. I mean you knew those "damn gays " were gonna wanna get married after biracial marriages were allowed when you allowed blacks to marry out side their race you knew gay marriage was coming around the corner just like beasiality and child molestation GET A GRIP!
Straw men and a lack of compassion
Comparing gay marriage with bestiality, paedophilia and farm animals - absolutely shameful.
Why do so many people feel they have the right to dictate how others live their lives?
Gay marriage, bestiality....are all shameful mind you
Why do people feel they have the right to dictate how they themselves life their lives? We have been given the lives we have by God and therefore must be stewards of them as God would have us to. The purpose of this life is to serve God and live only for Him. Whether you believe it or not doesn't matter, what matters is that it is the truth.
rhetorical
“Why do people feel they have the right to dictate how they themselves life their lives?”
That this question was not rhetorical is seriously disturbing!
“We have been given the lives we have by God and therefore must be stewards of them as God would have us to.”
Which would be what? Christians say one thing, Muslims say something else, then there are the Zorastrians, the Hindus…
How about the Constitution?
The consitution of your fine country grants individuals the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The UN's 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights offers something similar. Perhaps that's why individuals feel they have the right to dictate how they run their lives?
Forgive me, but asserting your evidence-free opinion as the 'truth' is not very impressive. If you want to believe your guy in the sky delusion, then go right ahead, but please don't think it compells anyone else to take it seriously.
Are you really suggesting a return to Dark Ages theocracy? How un-American.
I agree
Yes, I agree completely, we have all of those rights you listed and of course more or our great constitution would be much shorter. However, just because something is within the confines of the law does not make it right. For example, abortion . Although allowed in this country, it is the ending of a life. If you don't believe that life exists at that point then you must agree that it is the ending of the potential for a life. I consider the end to that potential to be just as wrong as a life itself. So although our society as a whole has deemed abortion to be "right" it is morally wrong.
Is it delusion to think that a house was built by builder? Or that a house appeared from an explosion of particles coming together? Is it a delusion to believe that man was also created? Or that a series of coincidences occurred to bring us to the point in time we occupy?
And I am unsure what you mean by a "Dark Ages theocracy" please expound.
You're confusing what you want to be true with what is true...
Abortion is certainly a serious issue and every one is sad and regrettable, but as far as I am concerned (and I think your constitution agrees) it is a private issue between a woman and whomever she elects to consult on the matter.
Personally I do not think the 'potential for life' argument is a good one because it is susceptible to the 'slippery slope' argument. Every sperm has the 'potential' for life, so should we jail masturbators or those indulging in oral or anal sex too?
Your questions around design and your incorrect alternative to it, blind chance, is a straw man and betrays a woeful ignorance of the theory of evolution .
The argument from design has been demolished many times over the millenia (most recently by Richard Dawkins in his wonderful book The Greatest Show on Earth) and is not taken seriously today so I will not address it here apart from to note that a supernatural being capable of creating the universe and everything in it, to tune the cosmological constants, to listen to the prayers of millions simultaneously, to know every person's thoughts etc. would need to be a very complex being indeed. So using your argument that apparently complex things need a designer, who designed god ?
I respectfully ask you to learn something about evolution (as I have learned something about religion) in order that you might be able to engage in more meaningful debate.
Whilst not accepted by all historians, the Dark Ages were held to be a period of intellectual barrenness that came before the Enlightenment. Kant and Voltaire and other critical thinkers of the Enlightenment saw the religious belief prevalent throughout the dark Ages as antithetical to reason and as a major problem for social progress. When I refer to a Dark Ages theocracy, that's the comparison I'm making - a return to a time when blind faith was a virtue and science and knowledge were seen as dangerous .
Even Obama Says It's "Less Than 3 Percent."
Just sayin'.
Bias
You cant be serious. "
"The media forces gay marriage down Americans ' throats as if there's some huge conspiracy against gay people in this country."
You clearly dont get we live under two systems: Your system of privelege with laws that support you, and our lack of privelege, with laws designed to prevent us from being equal citizens. What laws? How about if we enact laws to prevent you from getting married? From serving in the military ? From visiting your spouse on thier deathbed? How about having to pay extra taxes ? how about being able to be fired for who you are? How about turning on your TV and hearing preachers ramble on week after week how sinful blah blah blah you are?
Who is forcing thier opions down throats? (Nice use of sexual innuendo language there by the way). You are.
Gay people arent asking for permission to get married. I could care less about your opinion or your permission. Its not any of your business. What IS your (our) business is fairness under the law . If you dont like the equal protection clause, and you dont stand for liberty and justice and freedom for all, then you are in the wrong country.
No matter if gays represent 1%, 2% or 11% of American tax paying citizens, the fact is, we are tax paying American citizens, and last i checked under the United States of America's Constitution, it says plenty about avoiding majority tyranny shoving THIER morals and apartheid laws down the throats of minorities. In fact, quite the opposite. Thats why we have courts and legislatures.
I could care less what anti gay marriage people feel at the local or state level. Its none of thier business, just like your marriage is nobodys business. And yes, I fight for fairness under the law, so that the next generation (for the kids ) dont have to grow up in United States of Gay Apartheid .
Voting on gay marriage is a joke, and you know it. People should have no right to vote on other peoples lives: this isnt high school . This isnt a popularity contest. We are real people with real lives with real hopes and dreams
You must have had a heart once, but I imagine it was swept away by anger and bitterness. One can only hope people like you read a real book , and get out in the world to meet real people.
Amen, drewinsf!
"Bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate would be oppression." --Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural, 1801.
stereotypes
"[Homosexuals] are not just like the rest of us."
Stereotypes of homosexuals are not like the rest of us. Where you are mistaken is in believing that the majority of homosexuals adhere to stereotypes. In fact, the average homosexual is not anything like the stereotypes, and you would be surprised to realize there are many homosexuals for which you would be unable to identify as homosexual.
"Objectionable" differences between the average homosexual and heterosexual include public displays of affection and whatever happens behind closed doors (which shouldn't matter to any reasonable person anyway).
So while you claim that homosexuals are "just not like the rest of us", it seems to me that the only reason this seems true to you is in the fact that heterosexuals may be uncomfortable with seeing public displays of affection between homosexuals (akin to the displays you would see between heterosexuals). It has nothing to do with the homosexuals behaving differently than a comparable heterosexual couple would in public. It has to do with how a heterosexual interprets what they see. The problem is with the heterosexuals, not the homosexuals.
Re: Stereotypes
You are absolutely correct GreenBean. The problem is with the heterosexuals. I've known too many people that were borderline cases or beyond the shores as one would call it. The discrimination and the bias clearly lies with the heterosexuals. The thing is this, you needn't even be homosexual. I've had the family doctor try to nail me as latently homosexual and criticize my behavior. This is a general social problem. You're not even allowed to violate the sacred idea of hetero- sexism by variation along the lines of biological determinism. I think a priori, there is too much "belief" in things that cannot even find any justification as being natural. People are violation each other as much as nature is being violated. Nothing gives anyone preeminence over others. Nature is not a male delineated hierarchical system. Nature is interrelatedness. "People" infuse things that work perfectly fine with a false mystical feeling of being sublime.
a wedding
how about this. . .maybe Oprah was expressing emotion about two people who have become her friend. maybe Oprah was expressing elation that she witnessed sincere happiness being shared.
there are weddings that I have attended in which one or more people have been less than delighted by the pairing but in support of the loved one at the alter, they smile and graciously wait in the receiving line.
There isn't going to be an 'aw' for everyone. but in the case of the Oprah show, she alerts viewers of upcoming topics and images, so unless you are in the audience of the actual show, you can flip the channel, turn off the tv or walk to another room.
But then again, Beck gets to cry on his show.