Obamacare Could Be Used to Ban Guns in Home Self-Defense

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Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus has something to say to gun owners: “Own a gun; lose your coverage!”

Baucus’ socialized health care bill comes up for a Finance Committee vote on Tuesday. We have waited and waited and waited for the shifty Baucus to release legislative language. But he has refused to release anything but a summary -- and we will never have a Congressional Budget Office cost assessment based on actual legislation. Even the summary was kept secret for a long time.

But, on the basis of the summary, the Baucus bill (which is still unnumbered) tells us virtually nothing about what kind of policy Americans will be required to purchase under penalty of law -- nor the consequences. It simply says:

* “all U.S. citizens and legal residents would be required to purchase coverage through (1) the individual market...”;

* “individuals would be required to report on their federal income tax return the months for which they maintain the required minimum health coverage...”;

* in addition to an extensive list of statutorily mandated coverage, HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius would be empowered to “define and update the categories of treatments, items, and services...” within an insurance plan which would be covered in a policy constituting “required minimum health coverage.”

Obamacare and Gun Control

It is nearly certain that coverage prescribed by the administration will, to control costs, exclude coverage for what it regards as excessively dangerous activities. And, given Sebelius’ well-established antipathy to the Second Amendment -- she vetoed concealed carry legislation as governor of Kansas -- we presume she will define these dangerous activities to include hunting and self-defense using a firearm. It is even possible that the Obama-prescribed policy could preclude reimbursement of any kind in a household which keeps a loaded firearm for self-defense.

The ObamaCare bill already contains language that will punish Americans who engage in unhealthy behavior by allowing insurers to charge them higher insurance premiums. (What constitutes an unhealthy lifestyle is, of course, to be defined by legislators.) Don’t be surprised if an anti-gun nut like Sebelius uses this line of thinking to impose ObamaCare policies which result in a back-door gun ban on any American who owns “dangerous” firearms.

After all, insurers already (and routinely) drop homeowners from their policies for owning certain types of guns or for refusing to use trigger locks (that is, for keeping their guns ready for self-defense!). While not all insurers practice this anti-gun behavior, Gun Owners of America has documented that some do -- Prudential and State Farm being two of the most well-known.

The good news is that because homeowner insurance is private (and is still subject to the free market) you can go to another company if one drops you. But what are you going to do under nationalized ObamaCare when the regulations written by Secretary Sebelius suspend the applicability of your government-mandated policy because of your gun ownership?

All of this is in addition to something that GOA has been warning you about for several months … the certainty that minimum acceptable policies will dump your gun information into a federal database … a certainty that is reinforced by language in the summary providing for a study to “encourage increased meaningful use of electronic health records.”

Remember, the federal government has already denied more than 150,000 military veterans the right to own guns, without their being convicted of a crime or receiving any due process of law. They were denied because of medical information (such as PTSD) that the FBI later determined disqualified these veterans to own guns.

Is this what we need on a national level being applied to every gun owner in America?

Incidentally, failure to comply would subject the average family to $1,500 in fines -- and possibly more for a household with older teens. And, although a Schumer amendment purports to exempt Americans from prison sentences for non-purchase of an ObamaPolicy -- something which was never at issue -- it doesn’t prohibit them from being sent to prison for a year and fined an additional $25,000 under the Internal Revenue Code for non-payment of the initial fines.

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visavismeyou's picture

To actually attempt an argument by stating irrelevant and remote possibilities is quite shocking. You might as well make an argument that we need to watch out for quantum tunneling!! It could happen to you!!

The fact of the matter is that there is no reason to believe that the second amendment is in any danger whatsoever, much to my chagrin... No one had tried anything to dismantle the volumes of irresponsible protections of assault rifles and the prolification of hand guns . You have nothing to worry a out so please stop citing possiilities in order to conjure up a reason to worry.

You writing this argument is tantamount to me being worried that republicans want to require everyone to carry a hand gun. No one has proposed it, no one is talking about this so why should I worry about it?

User Removed's picture

Personally, I have a very low opinion of this extortion scam that's being passed off as healthcare reform, but I agree it doesn't have anything in the slightest to do with gun control .

That aside, what's your beef with assault rifles? "Assault" rifles are so hopelessly under powered and inaccurate compared to "sporting" rifles as to be nearly useless in anything other than a fully automatic weapon. They don't kick as much as a real gun, which makes them more comfortable to shoot if you're going to spend a day at the range. Plus, the ammo is a lot cheaper because it only uses half the materials needed to make a real rifle cartridge.

If you object to silly arguments because they aren't based on facts, perhaps you might share some fact based information as to why you believe "assault" rifles are worse than other guns .

visavismeyou's picture

Assault rifles are powerful enough... I shot many in the army and civilians do not need them. Even though they only make up a small portion of all violent crimes, they tend to make a pretty tough time for law enforcement when they are used in crimes.

Finally, I just really dont see any convincing argument that says they ought to be allowed in the public sector. "Because they are fun to shoot" or "They are easier to shoot at the range" are not convincing. In a simple cost /benefit analysis they ought to be outlawed. Allowing them to be in the public sector has no positives yet it has many negatives.

TBH I dont think anyone can look at the statistics of violent crimes with firearms and think we do not need further restrictions. The demand for guns increases the supply that criminals can pick from. Crimes are rarely averted by the presence of a firearm, in the end it is merely illusory safety that drives the maintaining of the misunderstanding of the second amendment .

agadorspartacus's picture

This runs along the same lines as death panels.

"It is even possible that the Obama-prescribed policy could preclude reimbursement of any kind in a household which keeps a loaded firearm for self-defense ."

Fewer and fewer people are taking bullshit comments like this to heart. You guys are champions at bullshit scare tactics.

SolarSanitizer's picture

Section 1233 of House Resolution 3200 puts our senior citizens on a slippery slope and may diminish respect for the inherent dignity of each of their lives.... It is egregious to consider that any senior citizen ... should be placed in a situation where he or she would feel pressured to save the government money by dying a little sooner than he or she otherwise would, be required to be counseled about the supposed benefits of killing oneself, or be encouraged to sign any end of life directives that they would not otherwise sign. [9]

Of course, it’s not just this one provision that presents a problem. My original comments concerned statements made by Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, a health policy advisor to President Obama and the brother of the President’s chief of staff. Dr. Emanuel has written that some medical services should not be guaranteed to those “who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens....An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia .” [10] Dr. Emanuel has also advocated basing medical decisions on a system which “produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated.” [11]

President Obama can try to gloss over the effects of government authorized end-of-life consultations, but the views of one of his top health care advisors are clear enough. It’s all just more evidence that the Democratic legislative proposals will lead to health care rationing, and more evidence that the top-down plans of government bureaucrats will never result in real health care reform .

- Sarah Palin

[1] See http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/08/president-obama-addresses-sarah-palin-death-panels-wild-representations.html .
[2] See http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
[3] See HR 3200 sec. 1233 (hhh)(1); Sec. 1233 (hhh)(3)(B)(1), above.
[4] See HR 3200 sec. 1233 (hhh)(1)(E), above.
[5] See http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
[6] See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/07/AR2009080703043.html ].
[7] Id.
[8] See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/10/AR2009081002455.html ].
[9] See http://www.nysenate.gov/press-release/letter-congressman-henry-waxman-re-section-1233-hr-3200 .
[10] See http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/Where_Civic_Republicanism_and_Deliberative_Democracy_Meet.pdf
[11] See http://www.scribd.com/doc/18280675/Principles-for-Allocation-of-Scarce-Medical-Interventions .

The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.

Submariner's picture

You quoted Sarah Palin, as if she had anything to do with it besides making a series of sounds with her mouth she probably did not understand.

The death panel crapfest is one of the most obvious red herrings we have seen since Bush beat Dukakis.

The only death panel the federal government runs is the one that refuses to draft across America but keeps sending the same poor kids back to Iraq and Afghanistan repeatedly with backdoor drafts. It's called Congress.

Hospice and Triage are facts of life in a medical context, and no one is willing to do everything we can at all costs. Hell, most people don't want to pay anything for our elderly.

SolarSanitizer's picture

Is just that: Irrational.

I didn't "have you until I quoted Sarah Palin". Your post was entitled Bulls**t. I don't like having to point out your dishonesty... It is a waste of my time.

She is smarter than you were told. Pretending that she is too stupid to speak is a) ignoring Obama's blathering incoherence when the teleprompter malfunctions and b) a gross exaggeration with a hint of dishonesty.

I know you know this... Which means the "Sarah Palin is stupid" argument is, itself, a red herring.

The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.

Submariner's picture

She is an elected official that was specifically devious with the campaign and the American people from the moment she was chosen. About her husbands hobbie's and employ, and about her state funding (that stupid bridge), and about her being something other than a rodeo-clown.

Her inconsistent reliance on reactionary and eccentric religious groups and people is indicative of snake- oil marketing usually not possible on the national theatre, even in our country.

And she was stupid. IF she was not, I would still feel sorry for our country for having gotten that close to self-destruction.

I don't hate her. I despise a political system that put her and her anti-American Oil-tool husband in charge of a state, and threatened to put her in charge of myt country.

The fact you would even defend her indicates how little you have tested the ideas she represents for you, and what little criteria we must have to allow such a representative anyway.

She was on TV and Radio over and over and when she wasn't repeating canned dishonesty she could not even talk.

So give me a break...

SolarSanitizer's picture

A recipe for being hated in America.

The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.

m46607's picture

I think Sarah Palin was a poor pick and she proved as much on the campaign trail. It's not because I hate White Christian Conservative Women - I know plenty. She was just as poor a pick as it would have been to have Hillary Clinton on the main Democrat ticket.

Not that I am against women running for office. Far from it. Just not Sarah in such a high position. Just not Hillary in such a high position (and we ended up with her anyway, le sigh). Politicians should stand on the merits of their accomplishments and be held accountable when they over-promises while running for office and then under-deliver after the votes are tabulated.

Race, gender, and religion are not even relevant to politics . The choices they make are.

I won't hate on Palin here, but I've got to say that it wasn't just the media painting her in a negative light. Plenty of it was her own doing. I listened to her speeches and she did quite a bit for the other team. She practically had a hand in promoting the Obama campaign in regards to Undecided / Independent voters.

Palin was big talk after the election and less than a year later she'd resigned. She's not a leader by any means. There's still quite a few good politicians left on both sides.

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