Opposing Views: No, People Cannot Change Their Sexual Orientation

No, People Cannot Change Their Sexual Orientation

Opinion by Rick Brentlinger
(January 23, 2010) in Society / Gay Issues

Is it possible to change my sexual orientation?

Rick Brentlinger Answers: You've asked a very important question. My answer is: No, people do not change their sexual orientation and there is no proof that God has ever changed anyone's sexual orientation. We are born gay or lesbian according to Jesus in Matthew 19:12, where He tells us, eunuchs are born that way. Eunuch is an ancient word which described gays and lesbians when the Bible was written.

It is possible to sublimate your orientation and act like you're no longer gay or lesbian. And its possible to modify your outward behavior but changing who you are inside, who God made you to be, is not possible.

Obviously, some gays (and some hets) NEED to change their behavior (not their orientation) IF they're living a promiscuous lifestyle. Sleeping around is a poor way to live and a great way to get a disease.

Many Christians are taught that getting saved changes you from homosexual to heterosexual. Of course, the Bible never says that so to be scriptural, we need to stick with the Bible, instead of someone's opinion.

There are change "ministries" around the world, many of them affiliated with Exodus International, which advertise themselves as helping people leave homosexuality. What generally happens in these ministries is that they take your money, waste your time and when you come out the other end, you're still gay or lesbian.

I've written about Exodus International, the best known change ministry. Their "success" rate is less than 15% and most of those "successes," including the President of Exodus International, Alan Chambers, admit that they still struggle with same sex attractions.

That means Exodus has an 85% failure rate AND the people they claim as "successes" didn't really change. Real heterosexuals don't struggle with same sex attractions and real homosexuals don't struggle against opposite sex attractions.

I've also written about the Ex-Gay myth. I hope you will also read that page because it helps to answer your question.

I encourage you to always read and believe the Bible. God loves you and Jesus died so that you can be saved.

Regarding Opinion

wow

It's amazing to me that you can form an opinion about sexual orientation from the Bible, instead of relying on scientific research or the facts of reality. Or, for that matter, use the Bible to form your opinion on anything. The trust you put in Jesus is so blatantly subjective and unsubstantiated. And every time I ask for an explanation of this trust, the answer always involves the concept I am questioning - "Because Jesus saved me." "Because God is all-powerful." Such circular faith ends with no actual justification, just blind belief without reason.

- etanheller January 23, 2010 8:15PM

Reply to this Recommend (0)

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- The Bible is God's word
  
  Christian's accept the Bible as God's inerrant, infallible word.
  
  Because that is our starting point for spiritual doctrine and because I was asked about sexual orientation by a Christian, I gave a Biblical response.
  
  Everyone is free to believe or not believe. God will never force you or anyone else to get saved.
  
  You seem to reject Christian belief because you view it as unprovable. Has it ever occurred to you that your belief system is also unprovable?
  
  Your belief system requires faith in your foundational assumptions, all of which are unprovable.
  
  I hope you will keep an open mind about the claims of God on your life. Your present certitude is based only on your fallible opinion, not provable facts.
  
  - Rick Brentlinger January 24, 2010 3:46PM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0)
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
  - axioms
    
    I respect that you wrote the article for Christians .
    
    However, you're attack on "foundational assumptions" is essentially a skeptic attack on metaphysical axioms, upon which one can base all other knowledge. I will attempt to briefly show you how there are axioms that are not "assumed", and that are indeed inescapably true, without faith or opinion.
    
    For example, the Aristotelian axiom of non-contradiction, or "A is A," which is the basis of all logic and knowledge. You can attempt to say this is a human construct, based on faith, etc... but all of these statements, like all statements, will rely on non-contradiction. Even by saying, "The axiom of non-contradiction is based on faith," you are affirming the axiom. The statement says that A is true (axiom is based on faith), and any other claim about the axiom is not true. By non-contradiction, you have made a statement of knowledge. Any statement will rely on non-contradiction, as you are asserting one truth over another, implicitly accepting that they cannot both be true ("is based on faith, is not based on faith"). You cannot escape the axiom of non-contradiction because all of your statements rely on it, because you have posited a position at all.
    
    What about the "foundational assumption" that I am conscious? This is Descartes. I think, therefore I am. The mere fact that I think undeniably "proves" to me that I am conscious. This axiom is not based on faith or belief, but rather is inescapable knowledge, the foundation for all other knowledge.
    
    These are my foundational "assumptions" about reality - and I have indeed shown that they are not assumed or believed but rather affirmed by my very existence and by the very identity of existence. From these axioms I can gain knowledge of the world, and from factual knowledge of the world I can derive ethical guidelines. These are not based on faith, but rather on a logical, rational concept-chain that goes back to the foundational axioms which need not be proved, but rather are the basis of proof itself, and are inescapably true. In other words, it is possible to have an ethics based on metaphysical facts and not on faith, if you merely recognize the flaws and self-refuting nature of the claim that we can never have knowledge at all. If you would like to know more about rational ethics, as opposed to ethics based on unjustifiable faith, then I could elaborate.
    
    - etanheller January 24, 2010 8:36PM
    
    Reply to this Recommend (0)
    
    Thank You for your Comment
    
    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
    - Bloviating?
      
      With all due respect, bloviating about Aristotle and Decartes ignores the fact that your foundational assumptions include:
      
      1. The Bible could not possible be objectively true
      
      2. There is not a God who is knowable
      
      3. There is not a God who created the Universe
      
      4. There is not a personal God Who has revealed Himself in a way human being can comprehend.
      
      Attempting to deflect our attention by debating non-contradiction and sentience misses the real issue.
      
      Why are you loathe to face the fact that there is a Creator God who has revealed Himself in the Bible, to humankind and to Whom you are responsible?
      
      http://www.gaychristian101.com/Who-Is-Jesus.html
      
      - Rick Brentlinger January 24, 2010 10:23PM
      
      Reply to this Recommend (0)
      
      Thank You for your Comment
      
      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
      - theism
        
        I misunderstood which beliefs you were talking about (I thought you were attacking axioms, and not my anti-theistic beliefs).
        
        You assume my position is atheistic. My position is more ignostic. If there is no valid proof for God, then there cannot possibly be any against the concept. Therefore, the concept is arbitrary, with no reference to reality, no actual "proof," and the concept should be rejected as necessitating rational discussion - not "possible" or "impossible" but "arbitrary."
        
        As for your assertion that the Bible is proof of God and contains his revelation...Why are you not a Muslim, or a Jew? The Qu'ran is also a text which the Muslims attribute to Muhammad, who they say was divinely inspired by God. Why do you reject this "divine" text while accepting the divinity of the New Testament? Certainly you cannot say that these are all forms of the same faith, because the ethics and laws presented by each religion are totally disparate. So what led you to choose Christianity?
        
        - etanheller January 25, 2010 12:14AM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0)
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        Verificationist theory? Really?
        
        Too cute by half - the tired old Verificationist theory - if it cannot be verified to be true by observation, it must be nonsense.
        
        Third graders know, if that is true, then verificationist ignosticism is nonsense because it cannot be verified.
        
        Rather than using a philosophical dodge, why not be open to the possibility that God has revealed Himself to us, His sentient creation, in verbal form, through the words of scripture, to say nothing of the created universe? Or do you subscribe to the belief that nothing made everything?
        
        Evidence of God is all around you if you have eyes to see and ears to hear. Denying God's existence is akin to plugging your ears in the midst of a conversation and then shouting, 'I can't hear a word you're saying!'
        
        Why Christianity? One word. Jesus.
        
        No other ' religion ' has Jesus. Pontius Pilate, the man who condemned Jesus to death, asked the question you must answer:
        
        "What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ?"
        
        Indeed, what will you do with Jesus?
        
        http://www.gaychristian101.com/Who-Is-Jesus.html
        
        - Rick Brentlinger January 25, 2010 3:25AM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (0)
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        Christianity
        
        "Third graders know, if that is true, then verificationist ignosticism is nonsense because it cannot be verified."
        
        What does this mean? Ignosticism makes no claim than can or cannot be verified. It is merely the position that claims that are discussed should not be arbitrary.
        
        "Make" or "create" are concepts that presuppose life, and complicated production presupposes humanity. To say that God created the world is to attribute human characteristics to a being that supposedly precedes humanity. This is akin to the first shoemaker creating a shoe, and then exclaiming, "This shoe is the source of the universe!" Concepts which are made possible by life cannot precede life.
        
        I do not "deny" God's existence, unless you posit a definition of God which is contrary to the axioms of reality (he is "outside" of reality, etc...). I merely say that if there is no valid evidence, it is not worth discussion. And pointing to existence and saying - "God must have created it" is not valid evidence.
        
        Your response to my argument about biblical "evidence" is laughable at best. I said: all biblical accounts are equivalent "proofs" of God's existence, yet they all have different accounts of God's will and the circumstances of revelation. How can you justify this contradiction while continuing to follow only one account?
        
        Your response did nothing to address the question. I essentially asked why you chose Christianity - why Jesus? You essentially answered me by saying that you chose Jesus because of Jesus. Are you actually saying that it is entirely, arbitrarily subjective, or are you dodging the question?
        
        - etanheller January 25, 2010 5:16PM
        
        Reply to this Recommend (1)
        
        Thank You for your Comment
        
        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
        
        More comments in this thread
Absurd discussion ...

How can you seriously take a definitive position on whether or not a supernatural, non-human being ( god is an alien after all) who is said to have created all that there is, thinks it is OK for certain of his subjects to exchange bodily fluids and give pleasure to each other? Even if he exists, do you think god cares about how we get pleasure?

If we held god to our standards, wouldn't we put him to death for routinely condemning and torturing people because they refuse to worship him? Jim Jones, Charles Manson and others have done the same thing.

- Edge-of-Reason January 24, 2010 9:34AM

Reply to this Recommend (0)

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- The Bible is the best starting point
  
  "God gave the word. Great was the company of those who published it." -Psalm 68:11
  
  That was written more than 3000 years ago, around 1000 BC. Throughout the history of humanity on earth, God has been actively involved, working through His Holy Spirit in the hearts of His followers.
  
  Far from holding God to our standards, God holds us to His standards. God's primary attribute is absolute holiness. His holiness made it impossible to simply ignore our sin.
  
  So that He would have a righteous basis to forgive our sins, God Himself came to earth as a man, Jesus, and lived a perfect sinless life.
  
  He then died on the Cross, shedding His perfect blood as the substitutionary sacrifice for our sins. In other words, Jesus took our place and received the punishment that we should have received.
  
  That shedding of sinless blood and that death in our place was the only payment a holy God could accept for our sins.
  
  NEWSFLASH!
  
  We know God accepted the payment Jesus made for our sins because God raised Jesus from the dead. Jesus is not a dead religious martyr. He is a living, loving Savior.
  
  NOW, it you want to be saved, the ONLY thing you have to do is repent of your sins (repent means to change your mind and agree with God about your need to be saved). Accept the fact that Jesus already paid for your sins and trust Jesus as your Savior.
  
  When you do that, God saves you, changes you from the inside out, 2 Corinthians 5:17, and makes you a new spiritual creation in Christ.
  
  Its free but it wasn't cheap. Its easy for you but it was so difficult for Him that it cost Him his life.
  
  So, what keeps you from trusting Jesus right now?
  
  More information is available at:
  
  http://www.gaychristian101.com/Saved.html
  
  - Rick Brentlinger January 24, 2010 4:00PM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0)
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
  - Are you listening Rick? Orwas that an auto-generated reply?
    
    Rick,
    The idea with this portal is that we reply to each other's positions and comments. Your last reply looked like it was auto-generated or cut-n-pasted from a tract or other source,
    
    Have you really read the bible ? If you had, I don't think you'd be using it as a reference for arguing either gay or moral issues. Bod is the leading cause of death among innocents and needs to confess His sims to someone. Minorities, slaves, women and gays were all told to be subservient to their masters, though it is said that there was a bit of "hide the salami" being played by the apostles on their long fishing trips ...
    
    I suggest you read "a short history of nearly everything" by Bill Bryson" for reality check regarding your belief that an alien power created the heavens and the earth and is standing by to forgive little John for his sinful acts behind the barn with little Ricky.
    
    - Edge-of-Reason January 24, 2010 9:51PM
    
    Reply to this Recommend (0)
    
    Thank You for your Comment
    
    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
    - Sophomoric silliness
      
      Its difficult to give a serious answer to such obviously facetious remarks.
      
      You jumped from a post about sexual orientation to accusing God of being like mass murderers Jim Jones and Charlie Manson.
      
      Your second post makes further accusations against God and contains sophomoric innuendo about Jesus' disciples.
      
      I wish you the best but will not waste any more time answering childish assertions.
      
      http://www.gaychristian101.com/Who-Is-Jesus.html
      
      - Rick Brentlinger January 24, 2010 10:33PM
      
      Reply to this Recommend (0)
      
      Thank You for your Comment
      
      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
IDK

When I was single, I noticed that I found myself attracted to those who resembled who I was datting at the time. That physical resemblance always seemed to catch my eye.

I think we can be guided in our physical attractions. I'm married now, and I still find women that resemble past girlfriends, more attractive than those that don't resemble women I've dated.

Don't even get me started on the whole pregnant women thing.

- shawninMo January 27, 2010 11:31PM

Reply to this Recommend (0)

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
How utterly idiotic!

Let's start at the top, shall we?

You are no expert. It appears you are unwilling or incapable of getting a dictionary and being honest about what you read. (And certainly, no lesbian was ever called an eunuch in the Bible, sir!) Go look up the meaning of the word. You are WAY off track, sir. Wrong!

So much for your statement about how we should all "stick to the Bible and not someone's opinion". Thank God, you had the wherewithal to capitalize the word "Bible", though, but I digress.

Secondly, God created us male or female and the two are meant to go together within the blessed, holy bonds of matrimony. Nowhere do men marry men, or women marry women in holy Scripture. It IS forbidden in the Bible and homosexuality IS condemned and they CAN be saved just like the rest of us and I have prayed for nearly 40 years for a massive movement/revival of homosexuals to come into the church in salvation. "We catch 'em, You change 'em!" is my motto.

(Pls check somewhere in 1 Cor, I believe where it lists homosexuality in the middle of a long list of sins, and then states, "such were some of you before salvation" in Christ Jesus, come on in, the water is fine, glory be to God, alleluia!

YOUR opinion, sir, gives no hope to homosexuals, totally misguides them into deceiving themselves that God made them that way when it is clearly a choice out of either lust or brokenness and you give them no hope of anything other than an eternity in Hell, also a very real place. Some like it hot and I guess you will end up there unless you, too, get saved and stop publishing this nonsense of yours.

Best regards. :O)

PS....as regards "change" it is not God's job, initially. The onus is on us to receive Jesus Christ "by FAITH" and then we allow the Holy Spirit to "change" us.....on us. :O)

- skbnwinters January 28, 2010 10:17AM

Reply to this Recommend (0)

Thank You for your Comment

We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.
- Take a deep breath...
  
  skbnwinters-
  
  Hey friend, slow down, take a deep breath and read my remarks more carefully.
  
  If you will do that, you will discover that I did not say lesbians are called eunuchs in the Bible. I wrote:
  
  "We are born gay or lesbian according to Jesus in Matthew 19:12, where He tells us, eunuchs are born that way. Eunuch is an ancient word which described gays and lesbians when the Bible was written."
  
  http://www.gaychristian101.com/Same-Sex-Attracted-Eunuchs.html
  
  You wrote that "God created us male and female..." I certainly do not dispute that. But you are reading so much else into the Creation texts when you conclude that everyone is born heterosexual.
  
  http://www.gaychristian101.com/adam-and-eve.html
  
  You mentioned the 1 Corinthians 6:9 passage which in some modern English translations, contains the English word, homosexual. If your mind is still open to God's truth, it might interest you to know that the Greek word, arsenokoitai, was NEVER used in the first century with the meaning of homosexual.
  
  http://www.gaychristian101.com/Define-Arsenokoites.html
  
  You wrote: "YOUR opinion, sir, gives no hope to homosexuals ..."
  
  On the contrary, the Bible offers great hope to homosexuals because God saves us eternally just like He saves heterosexuals eternally. We are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, with no works involved, no water baptism involved.
  
  http://www.gaychristian101.com/Saved.html
  
  You wrote: "you give them no hope of anything other than an eternity in Hell, also a very real place..."
  
  http://www.gaychristian101.com/Jesus-On-Hell.html
  
  My faith and hope rest in the Jesus of the Bible. I sincerely hope you are trusting Jesus as your only hope of salvation.
  
  Your brother in Christ,
  
  Rick Brentlinger
  http://www.gaychristian101.com/Who-Is-Jesus.html
  
  - Rick Brentlinger February 1, 2010 2:23PM
  
  Reply to this Recommend (0)
  
  Thank You for your Comment
  
  We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.