Groups Urge Obama to Ban Armor-Piercing Gun Used at Fort Hood
WASHINGTON -- In a letter sent today to the White House, America’s six national gun violence prevention (GVP) organizations–the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Violence Policy Center, Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, Freedom States Alliance, Legal Community Against Violence, and States United to Prevent Gun Violence–as well as 21 state and regional GVP groups strongly urged President Barack Obama to use his executive powers to ban the import into the U.S. of the FN Herstal Five-seveN armor-piercing semiautomatic pistol.
[See http://www.vpc.org/obamaletter.pdf for a copy of the letter.]
A Five-seveN was used in the Fort Hood attack earlier this month that left 13 dead and 34 wounded. The Belgian-made weapon, widely available on the U.S. civilian market, is also a favorite of Mexican Drug Trafficking Organizations (DTOs), who refer to it as the “mata policia,” or “cop killer.”
In the letter, the 27 organizations state:
“While we urge you to join us in pushing for other much-needed policy changes to help reduce America’s epidemic of gun violence that were also relevant to the Fort Hood shooting, such as gaps in the federal background check system that allow suspected terrorists to legally buy guns and the ready availability of high-capacity magazines (including the 20-round magazines used by the Fort Hood shooter), preventing the importation of any more Five-seveN handguns is an important step that can be accomplished immediately through administrative action by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF)–without the need for any action by Congress.
“Under longstanding federal law, ATF has the clear authority to prohibit the importation of any firearm or ammunition unless it is ‘generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.’ This provision of the 1968 Gun Control Act has historically been used to exclude from import many non-sporting firearms, including so-called ‘Saturday Night Special’ handguns, ‘Street Sweeper’ shotguns, and many foreign-made assault weapons. The FN Five-seveN handgun is clearly the type of firearm to which Congress intended the import restrictions to apply.”
The letter details the fact that despite a voluntary agreement between FN Herstal and ATF to restrict the civilian sale of potentially armor-piercing ammunition for the pistol, “a quick search of the Internet identifies several sources for supposedly banned ammunition.”
Noting that when “the Five-SeveN’s availability is combined with the easy accessibility of complementary armor-piercing ammunition it becomes not only a direct threat to law enforcement, but a potential national security threat as well,” the organizations urge that the President “act today to prohibit the importation of the FN Five-seveN handgun as well as any 5.7X28mm ammunition that has armor-piercing capabilities….”
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To paraphrase one of the last century's best presidents, Here they go again. The gun grabbers are using the same tired old tactics to try to ban yet another gun. They know that they can't get an overall ban on firearms , so they are trying to do it one gun at a time. Don't let'em do it!
"The letter details the fact that despite a voluntary agreement between FN Herstal and ATF to restrict the civilian sale of potentially armor-piercing ammunition for the pistol, “a quick search of the Internet identifies several sources for supposedly banned ammunition.” "
This is because people incorrectly assume that the SS192 ammo is banned. The SS192 ammo was never banned. The SS190 ammo was banned. The SS192 was approved for commercial sale, but was soon replaced by a slightly different loading.
To begin with, firearms are not "armor-piercing".
Ammo can be "armor piercing". Almost all firearms can fire "armor-piercing" ammo, depending on how you define "armor".
To get a military AP rating, ammo must be able to penetrate a certain thickness of hard metallic armor from a distance. Usually this is something like 1/2 inch steel plate at 100 yards. None of the 5.7 ammo can do this and has never been rated AP by the military.
Body armor defeats bullets in a different fashion than steel plate, so what is effective on one is not necessarily effective on another.
Additionally, there are six ascending levels of body armor. Only the two highest are rated against rifles. The 5.7 was originally developed as rifle ammo. With the original ammo developed for the military, and fired from a rifle, the 5.7 could not defeat NIJ level IIIa body armor (handgun armor) and performed about as good as several common loads for a 9mm, .357, or .44.
When fired from the FiveseveN pistol, the 5.7 ammo performs even worse against body armor, even when using the restricted military ammo, due to the lower velocities.
When loaded with the commercial ammo, the 5.7 does little better than some commercial .22 rimfire ammo.
Basically, the 5.7's claimed ability is a bunch of hype. It is nothing much more than a .22 WMR or a reduced power load of a .223 Rem.
Further, none of the people who were shot were wearing body armor except the responding cops and none of the shots defeated any body armor.
In fact, had Hasan chosen a 9mm, .40 or .45 caliber with decent ammo, we would be looking at several more dead. In a way it was fortuitous that he believed the hype and bought a FiveseveN.
Must be one helluva gun to be able to punch a hole through armor. Heck, you'd have to be some sort of Superman to have the strenth to force the gun through the armor. Also would need the speed of Superman to get in close and get back way from your intended target after the attack. I could go on and on about this one guys, but I think I have made my point. They are all idiots with crap for brains and only have the wit of a dried up turd.
It's not the gun stupids, it's the gunfree zones created by the anti-gun fanatics (Clinton, Shumer, and liberals, et al) One more law , one more ban , will do nothing to stop JEHAD TERRISTs like the Major. The only thing that will stop them is a BULLET period.
Liberalism and Liberal is often confused with the modern UK's Liberal Party and that's pretty much where the Democrats have taken it in recent years. To quote John Locke, a founder of the Liberal movement: "All men are created equal; that among individual, inalienable rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to insure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
Now in recent years the Democrats have assumed the latter part with less attention to the former parts of such a concept. They've taken the stance that government should take from the people to help the people, because the people are unable to help themselves. They often do it without the consent of the governed and the governed have become too lazy, complacent, or jaded to really retort or care.
Our founding fathers were mostly Liberal, not Conservative. They only adhered to tradition because the fledgling US was not the melting pot it is today. Most were Catholic or Protestant because it was ingrained in them from previous generations. Separation of Church and State was actually an effort to keep from mixing government with the capacity to become tyrannical - a Monarchy or Theocracy.
Conservatism is a philosophy which caters to more traditional or orthodox means of government. It implies that government should be directed through faith-based institutions and requires a certain amount of momentum - built up through time - to really muster force as a movement. It requires more indoctrination to be successful. Incidentally, this is how you end up with the Right Wing radicals such as McVeigh or Hasan. Are you still following?
A theocracy ran by Christians (the largest group of true Conservatives in the United States) and a theocracy ran by Muslims (say, the largest group of true Conservatives in Iran) are both equally disastrous to liberty as they put their faith and its gospels before individual liberties.
This is why I can't stand the way we've been polarized in this country with two options that are in direct opposition. The labels (or names) match up to ideologies and not quite the exact meanings or intentions of the words.
Do you believe in freedom of speech and religion ? You're liberal. Do you believe in second amendment rights? You're a liberal. Do you believe individuals should be accountable for responsible and irresponsible activity alike? You're a liberal.
Do you believe your religion is the right religion and others should be censored? You're conservative. Do you believe in restricting the personal choices of others based on your personal beliefs? You're conservative. Do you take it upon yourself to do what you feel is best for your fellow man, even if they disagree? Well crap, that means the Democrats and health -care reform isn't very liberal at all.
I'll bet you five recommendations this poor research of the weapon will make it to the media and get repeated on CNN and MSNBC as if it were fact before the end of next week.
So what are the anti-Constitution crowds going to fight if they acheive their goal - that is banning firearms ? Heck this shooting shows we will need to ban military possession also to acheive their nervana.
They know that above article is a fraud, they fought this type ammo and got it banned from import very shortly after it was developed. Now with a new catchy phrase (cop killer guns ) they have a new campaign to con those who don't know which end of a gun to hold!
What a sad state of affairs in that they are even allowed to become an organization. Where else in the world are groups that are so anti-Government (as the Constitution is the core of our Governmental structure) allowed to open exist?
More laughable dribble from people wanting to snatch away our Constitutional rights.
Any gun can be used to kill cops. All of them have the capability to shoot armor piercing bullets , yet ALL armor piercing bullets are ILLEGAL.
You know what else can kill cops? Cars, blunt objects, dogs, infected hangnails, autoerotic asphyxiation, angry cats, Obamacare, a gang of Twilight obsessed tween girls, crowbars attached to moose heads, chunks of food lodged in their airways, and volcanos.
Plus, you know, criminals, or as I like to call them, PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO CARRY AND USE GUNS REGARDLESS OF WHATEVER LAWS ARE IN EFFECT.
The bunch of people should focus their energy on something more productive, like decreasing the hangnail mortality rate.
I had a pretty bitchin' hang-nail the other day and it took a bunch of skin off with it. You know - the kind where you try to clip (or in my case, bite off) the nail so that the part attached to the skin can remain but somehow always inevitably gets ripped off later in the day (or tomorrow) while conducting a trivial task?
I remember thinking to myself "If only I stopped biting my nails, maybe I wouldn't have these issues." But here I am today, biting my nails AGAIN. It's somewhat of an issue, but I know it's a problem which directly correlates to articles such as this one - articles which encourage fear and nervous ticks.
I mean I'm pretty damn concerned here. In the streets of America we've let these cop-killer handguns run wild. I'm not really into computers and such, but it must be pretty complicated the way these machines work. Is the cop-killing property akin to, like, a smart-weapon? Does it know who the police are? If so, can I also set it to vibrate so that I can know when a plain clothes or off-duty officer is near by? It might help me to figure out who the good guys are, but I'd keep the safety on at all times. I'd be really afraid that my Five-Seven would hop out of its holster without warning if I got too close.