Can There be Wholesome Christian Porn?
Wholesome Christian Porn? Seriously?
I received an email- very nicely written, very polite, from a gentleman who is advocating for a “Porn Revolution” where christians can have access to “pure and wholesome porn” (aka a “loving man and a wife having sex on camera”) that is free from drugs, abuse, violence, and that celebrates sexuality and marriage.
Yikes.
I responded to his email with a polite “thank you for your opinion, but we disagree and here’s why….”
His answer:
“thank you for your kind response. people can be downright mean.”
That makes me sad. No wonder people are turning to anesthetics such as porn and drugs when the people that purport to be “God with skin on” can’t meet another broken traveler in the middle of his darkness and love him through it.
Granted, the thought that there are communities of people advocating this type of pornography is scary as hell. Seriously? Is this the next wave of bizarre fetish behavior? Hopefully NOT. Pro-porn man did say that so far he has not been able to find any ‘wholesome’ porn and that there should be a porn revolution where committed Christians start making videos for each other. Praying for pro-porn man to have an authentic encounter with a God who loves him and who does not need to jack off to other people having sex to “celebrate” the good gift of sexuality!
I did tell him that if he could meet the following conditions for a pro-porn revolution that I’d be first in line to join him:
-A mentally healthy husband and wife with no unresolved trauma or issues from childhood or family of origin
-A mentally healthy adult who is willing to watch porn AND has no unresolved trauma or issues from childhood or family of origin.
I do not believe such a triad exists. If it does- sure, bring on the Christina porn revolution.
I feel sad.
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I just wrote this long comment to your last comment sex addicts and somehow it got erased, so I'm going to go cry for while, but the main points were that your questions although valid were not the subject of this discussion although I would welcome another discussion topic regarding those subjects (i.e. the fair and ethical treatment of pornstars, and the affects of porn on relationships ).
I do disagree with your comment about justifying things from the Bible. Justifying would be like the people who say well adultery meant this back then but now it means this or who say well we're going to get married so it's ok if we have sex now. I simply stating a lack of Biblical evidence to support the moral views that nudity, masturbation and viewing a couple have sex is a sin.
I love Jesus more ;) (j/k)
I think the fact that most people consider all porn to be wrong is why so many people delve into the truly bad stuff. If there were healthy limits, then people who are trying to live a good moral life would know what to enjoy and what not to.
As is, if someone watches some porn they feel bad and figure why not go here or there with it since they have already slipped or messed up.
I think the attitude of "I messed up why not go here or there" is a fantastic example of justifying, minimizing, reducing, and excusing poor behavior, which is unacceptable if we are claiming to be Christians. As people who are followers of Jesus, it is inevitable that we will mess up, because no one is God. However, though there is grace for us to slip, there is responsibility attached to our status as children of God. To say "oh well, to hell with it, i might as well eat the whole box of donuts" is akin to letting an adolescent part of self drive the bus instead of putting it under the authority of our grown and authentic 'self,' and that is unhealthy. IMHO, to compare watching women being raped and abused on camera to listening to Queen is not a valid comparison (I happen to love Queen by the way...just using your example).
While I say this with respect- it does sound a bit like you may (emphasis on 'may') be trying to excuse watching 'regular' porn with the age old agage 'everyone is doing it so why not...' when as a brother, you do have a responsibility to fight for the oppressed (i.e.- women who are not being treated well in the porn industry).
I am also curious about my original questions which you have chosen not to answer as of yet-
What does your wife think of this debate?
What does the word "happy" mean in the context of "porn makes me happy" and what are your thoughts that are producing this 'happiness'
Based solely on this conversation and the way the data is being processed through my head, you also seem to be very intent on using biblical versus to justify a lifestyle choice (which is a sign of religiosity and legalism) and have not addressed my question about looking into statistics regarding the dangers of porn. You said that this has no merit since it is 'regular' porn statistics and not 'christian' porn statistics that I referenced. I believe it does indeed have merit, since you claim to watch it. I also believe that the neurological impact (as researched by people much smarter than us) of watching pornography is the same regardless of the intent. And research shows the neurological impact is NOT good.
I'd also be curious to know what type of porn you like to watch when you do indulge in 'regular' porn. Does it depict violence against women? Does it show women in degrading circumstances? Does it put forth an image of upholding women as precious daughters of God? Would you want YOUR daughter/sister/mother to be in a pornographic film for your friends and co-workers to see?
Thanks for your willingness to explore such an important topic, and thank you as well for your continued commitment to civil disagreement :)
It's like growing up, I was told that all non Christian music was sinful. Instead of being told that there is nothing wrong with listening to secular music as long as the message is not bad.
So if I had listened to "Bycycle" by Queen then I would have felt bad and figured I may as well listen to a song that promotes premarital sex or suicide (sorry couldn't think of a really horid song off the top of my head, I still mainly listen to Christian) but hopefully you get the point.
I think in order to really answer the blogger’s question I have to ask myself, what was God’s intention/purpose for sex and does viewing other people having sex or being naked fulfill that intention?
And I think the resounding answer I come to is “ummmm no”.
Sex was created as a part of a healthy relationship between one man and woman, it was way for them to have children (be fruitful and all that jazz), it was a way for them to become one (not just in body but in a mystical spiritual way), and it was created to be a reflection of relationship of the trinity.
Viewing other people having sex (whether loving, married or not) is actually a distortion of God’s intention for sex, actually a pretty dangerous distortion (as the blogger has mentioned)
One of the inherent dangers of pornography is that those people on the screen become the “object” and the viewer becomes the taker. So sex that was actually created for intimacy between a man a woman becomes the opposite or objectified.
When we violate the fundamental intention of something as significant as sex we are actually violating God’s law and that’s what makes something immoral.
So while our pro – Christian porn man was able to justify porn because it does not inherently mean you have to lust. I would suggest that that porn is immoral and therefore wrong because porn is not God’s vision for human sexuality, it is a distortion of a very fundamental and sacred part of creation.
"Viewing other people having sex (whether loving, married or not) is actually a distortion of God’s intention for sex, actually a pretty dangerous distortion "
"I would suggest that that porn is immoral and therefore wrong because porn is not God’s vision for human sexuality, it is a distortion of a very fundamental and sacred part of creation"
How would you know this unless the Bible said so?
Yeah, I am making the conclusion the sex outside of how God created it is actually immoral.
I feel like that’s a really reasonable and basic conclusion considering God’s specific intentions for sex.
Hebrews 13:4 says, “Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.”
So clearly here, sexual immorality means more then just adultery (or adultery via lust) otherwise there would be no reason to separate the two issues. But can I proof positive define for you what else the author might mean by sexual immorality? No, because the Bible doesn’t, the Bible expects and requires that we look at God’s intention and come up with a reasonable definition of what is in violation of that intention. It is fairly obvious that it includes more then just homosexuality and bestiality (which are defined elsewhere in the Bible). So again, I say that sexual immorality includes masturbation and porn, as both are outside of the intents and purposes of sexual intimacy as God created it.
But if we cannot agree on that point, we’re really so far apart on the issue that no amount of verse quoting or hermeneutic will really be convincing.
I guess all I have left is to kindly but strongly caution you. You have really taken some big leaps in your definitions of sexual immorality and lust. I figure that you don’t consider them to be big leaps in logic, but I would say that you have strayed significantly from common and widely held biblically based views about sexual immorality.
There are some Biblical issues in which people can debate and come to differing opinions and often do without much consequence. Sexual immorality is not one of them. The Bible is very clear that those that participate (and are un-repentant) will not enter the kingdom of heaven (1st Corinthians 6:9-10).
And to be clear, that verse in Corinthians should give us all a reason to check ourselves and our views of immorality. It should produce a healthy fear and trembling. I know it does in me.
Ok, so I've got song titles in my head, aghh! As to your verse that separates adultery and sexual immorality, you kinda answered yourself. Even if you aren't married, homosexuality, bestiality, lust, orgies, fornication and probably more are still sin. I agree it does seem pointless to continue because you have been lied to and are more than happy to feel "safe" in your point of view, no matter how un-biblical it is.
Majority wins is a concept in life but not necessarily a true concept for the path is narrow and straight which lead to life and few there be that find it (not saying if you don't view porn your going to hell), but the church as a whole has largely believed many things that the Bible either didn't teach or were just plain sin. At one time I heard Pipe organs were preached as a tool of the devil, all forms of dancing, contemporary Christian music , playing cards, dice, women wearing pants or jewelry. Lots of things have been preached to be dire sins that would take you straight to hell, but the church has now generally accepted them because it took an honest look at the Bible. Porn, masturbation and nudity or no different.
At one time I believe the "church" even condoned and promoted prostitution as well as the crusades. Just because they had alot of supporters didn't mean that the Bible expressly forbade such atrocities.
Of course you may feel "safer" by not watching porn and or masturbating but are you fighting something that God designed for our pleasure and even discouraging others from entering the Kingdom because you make things that God instilled in our hearts to be sin? The church spends so much time trying to convert the church to it's exact views that the lost are falling into hell by the multitude while we quibble.
Women have been conditioned by society that they cannot enjoy visual stimulation and that is too bad. Many women walk around in guilt and numbness because they don't want to be scorned. No wonder marriages are made fun of as the death of sexuality. Women are generally discouraged from enjoying their sexuality on both ends, by the world and by the church...Personally, Tavila, I apologize for this terrible injustice. You should feel free to enjoy the beauty and strength that Jesus surrounded you with, and not be shamed.
there are already an awful lot of Christians doing porn, what with all those cries of "oh god!!" and "oh my God!" that you hear them yell out during the "action" ....
cute mr. average :) lol