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Amnesty International: George W. Bush Admits to U.S. Torture
Speaking in Grand Rapids, Michigan, last Wednesday former President George W. Bush appeared to take personal responsibility for the decision to waterboard Khalid Sheikh Mohammed:
“Yeah, we waterboarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. I’d do it again to save lives.”
The former President’s comments remove any lingering doubt that may have remained that torture was sanctioned at the highest level of his administration.
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Comments
Bush: War Criminal!
Al Quaeda are evil, but so is torture . If I was American I would be ashamed of Bush, who I see as stooping to the enemy's filthy lowness. America has a proud tradition of fighting bravely and cleanly, even against the likes of Hitler and Tojo. I don't recall any American use of torture during WW II. Bush has shamed and dishonored his country by his actions. He has ruined America's once proud and clean international reputation. People should regard him as the WORST President America ever had.
Thank God you people voted for Mr. Obama. He is a true man of peace and diplomacy ; of him Americans should be proud.
Monushka
The Americans are not as you describe and never were. The murder of an entire continent of Indians to steal their land is history. The brutal killings of up to half a million Philippinos in America's colonial war (this even far beyond the crimes of the other colonial powers, apart from the Belgians in the Congo.
There was an American death camp set up at Remagen in 1945 close to where I used to live. There were many others too. Eisenhower changed the status of the inmates from "Prisoners of war" to "disarmed enemy combatants" to get around the Geneva Convention. Prisoners were living on "grass soup". Up to a million died, but American apologist try to say only 100,000.
The "exceptional" people do not change and remain "exceptionally arrogant"
You're right
American's didn't torture the remnants of the SS who were attempting to follow orders to wage a guerrilla war from the mountains. When they were found . They were shot.
This is to assure
This is to assure us that we should be very glad that he in NO longer president.
Oh what a difference 8yrs makes.
Have we forgotten what war means?
Everything was fine until 9/11 , when we realized that a powerful a group of radicals have every intention of killing as many Americans as possible. Do we believe that Americans are not or would not be tortured, probably in a far worse manner, by those who gleefully behead captives in front of cameras? What "just" society would fly aircraft into buildings known to be populated by thousands of humans? Do we believe it is not an intentional torture that so many innocent people lost their lives and that their families and children will suffer forever?
I agree with President Bush, we need to do what must be done to keep safe the lives of American citizens and others who are in our country. Freedom is not free. It costs the lives of the brave men and women in our armed services who risk or pay the ultimate price every day. We do need to rebuild an America we can believe in and that was what President Bush vowed. Because of his committment, we had no more terrorist attacks. Now we live with constant fear and suspicion in our own homes and, sadly, it is becoming the "norm."
Monushka
Nothing was fine even before 9/11. The USA has been carrying out wars of terror against others for decades. 9/11 was only a mini piece of pay-back.
The deaths of 1.6 million Iraqis (including over 600,000 children were caused by American sposored UN sanctions. Madeline Albright said quite openly that these deaths were a price worth paying. This was long before 9/11.
You obviously think that only Americans have any kind of value and the lives of all other people on earth have lives that are worth less than nothing.
This is typical American arrogance from the nation that exterminated a whole continent of Indians..
anything
We don't just throw away our principals because of a threat . That Americans can be (and are / were) tortured does not make it right for us to torture other people.
War on your doorstep
It is wonderful idealism to believe that if we are just nice to people, they will love us and do no harm. The US has traditionally done more to aid poor countries and feed hungry people all over the world than any other, but we are not immune to their hatred. Until you have the terrorists on your own doorstep and your own daughters are raped and beaten, it is easy to be liberal and self-righteous.
Americans have been wooed into the belief that our superior kindness will win the world. When we can't breathe because of the smoke and explosions in our cities , and when we have to protect our own property because terrorists are climbing over your fence to torture and kill our familes, values will become much more realistic. When Americans realize that their freedom cannot be insured by a cell phone call to " 911 ," they will understand what war really is and that the realities of preserving the country must be based on what works. Sadly, when it is on your own doorstep, rather than a TV screen, it is too late.
Monushka
Whatever you privately believe or as you say, have been wooed into believing about any form of American superior kindness. It was always rubbish.
It is about time that Americans got war on their own doorstep so they understand what it is and perhaps they would not be so keen to dish out their arrogant acts of terrorism against so much of the rest of the world.
9/11 was merely a mild form of revenge for what USA does to others all the time in their quest for empire.
monushka
No! America is not some kind of Madame Bountiful and never was. It is a good slogan for those who congratulate themseles on each and every occasion as being the best at everything.
Out of the industrialised western countries the USA comes last in percentage of GDP given as aid to others. It is usually Demark or Norway who give the most. Even in purely dollar terms Japan was previously giving much more than the USA, but Japan cut back in 2000 because of its financial proplems.
It is incomprehensibe to most of the world as to why even very reasonable Americans have to be always boasting so much.
working
But does it work ? Is torture an effective method of gathering information? And are you willing to see innocent people tortured for information (and are you willing to be tortured)?
It is easy to abandon the ideals of freedom and justice when it seems convenient... but once those freedoms have been surrendered how hard will it be to get them back?
Really?
The day Bush left you began cowering in your bedroom with the covers over your head?
All the facts point to torture making us LESS safe , but your thirst for revenge blinds you to the fact that Obama has kept us safe here at home his entire administration so far, shattering Bush's record.
Really?
Obama has done that? The pair of shootings aside, a terrorist not being able to get his underwear to light can hardly be attributed to Obamas' vigilance. If someone had been paying attention durring bomb class instead of thinking about those seventy two virgins, a few hundred people would have missed out on their Christmas ham.
I don't follow anyone, because those that appear to be on the same path usually end up just getting in my way.
shoe
And we had the shoe bomber under President Bush.
And before him...
We had a major terrorist attack every two years. Love or hate Bush, it was refreshing for most Americans to go on the offensive against the problem rather than waiting for the next attack. Hopefully, Obama doesn't break His arm patting Himself on the back, when it's the resourses Bush put into place that actually are responsible for success in busting the attacks that we do.
Spin who you think should get the credit, or blame Bush for his heavy handed tactics, but you can't do both. Obama can't take credit for Bushs' work and then condemn it in the same breath.
I don't follow anyone, because those that appear to be on the same path usually end up just getting in my way.
love / hate
I neither love nor hate President Bush... After all I voted for him twice.
President Bush was handed the worlds approval, and squandered it on Iraq.
President Obama certanly can use some of the mechanisms President Bush put in place, while decrying the more extreme steps he took.
President Bush
is a brave, good man, and a competent president. Next to the socialist buffoon we have now, he's golden.
Bush would not be partying and playing golf during this troubling time. He would stand with Israel, and find an answer to the oil spill.
Not as conservative as I am, but he's a lot better than the incompetent boob we have in the white house now.
Monushka
So you are a fan of torture are you.? Bush the torturer is also a war criminal by any standard and especially the standard laid down at Nuremberg.
Israel is an apartheid state founded on stolen property and it also tortures people and is famous for war crimes and bombing civilians just like Bush.
I view Israel and its fascist supporters with the same contempt with which I view George Dubya Bush.
Bush is a Coward
Obviously Bush thinks he is immune to any prosecution for the crimes he committed. He should be hauled before the world court and prosecuted for war crimes.
be specific
If you can. What crimes has Bush been convicted of?
why do you keep saying that?
all these posters are CLEARLY saying Bush and Cheney should be PROSECUTED, not shot.
It's nice that you have a knee-jerk answer to the subject, but you need to refine it to fit the theme.
be specific
what crimes do you have proof of, and why haven't you gone to the authorities and pressed charges ?
WoW
Brave: Draft dodgers had more courage than this clown that spent Vietnam AWOL from the Air Guard.
Good: In context of this article, this is pretty funny, if baseless all the same. Just the crap Rove pulled on McCain for him puts him out of the run.
Competent: Economy Tank Fail, Unwinnable Wars Fail, Setting Example for English Learners Fail, the list goes on.
Bush would find answers to the oil spill? You really are baiting, aren't you? He could not even handle an elementary school classroom, much less a big boy problem.
Seriously, you have demonstrated no regard for reality. Bush would not be partying? He took more vacation time than any President since Ford his first year. Maybe he should have been QAing airport security !
The Dem's apparently, despite assinine assumptions, are more conservative with their work ethic: http://www.factcheck.org/2010/01/president-obamas-vacation-days /
I'm not baiting
I'm just telling the truth.
So tell me this.
If George is such a patriot and a good man, why is he hiding the answer to the problem?
We know John McCain knows how to catch bin Laden, but we have to make him president, since he's all country first and stuff.
So where is George? He has the answer to this oil spill and he won't tell us?
Bush should be in Jail
If there were any justice in the world, George Bush and his henchman Dick Cheney should be rotting in jail right now for war crimes.
Be specific
What crimes has Cheney or Bush been convicted of.
You do believe that they are entitled to due process before they are sentenced, don't you?
Monushka
Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Blair should be dragged before a Nuremberg style court. The Nuremberg court could not be set up until Hitlers evil war machine was smashed and the world could get at the Nazis. Perhaps the American humiliation in Afghanistan may be the first step to justice for the victims of American imperialism.
I hope so.
Answer
No
Due Process - Absolutely
WIthout a doubt - get em laywered up- merandized - the whole nine yards. I think out Justice System could handle it. I know some don;t have much confidence in it but I do. However, I would have no problem trying them at the Hague or if the defendents' counsel recommends a military tribunal. Whatever it takes to see that justice is served. I they are found innocent - great - case closed - the Bushies do not torture . I would like nothing better that that stain to be removed from the human rights record of the United States.
But,
Why haven't you pressed charges yourself? If you have evidence of a crime , why don't you go to the police ?
Because you have nothing but your sissy rage to give them. All your "facts" are wrong , and all your motivations are against good sense.
I expect you'll understand more when you're older.
monushka
The reason people are not pressing charges is simply that the regime of American imperialist aggressors has not yet collapsed. Nobody could take Hitler and his henchmen to court until Nazi Germany collapsed.
However, the crimes of Bush won't just go away because the USA is arrogant and powerful for the moment.
Sissy Rage: WTF?
What does that even mean? You don't know me. You don't know anything about me. Why would you attmept to resort to trying to insult me? It is very typical of the right. WHen they can't argue effectively an indefensible position they attempt to bully and insult people who have an opposing view. I don't know why you people can not argue an issue on its merrits. Why must you always attempt a lame insult. Sissy? We're not in junior high school . As far as pressing charges I will leave that up to people with far more resources than me. But the Universe has its way of reaching a balance - I'm not too worried about that.
I'm just saying,
If you think waterboarding is torture , then you're a sissy like Hitchens.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58
lol, I crack up every time i watch that, but I bet you cryed, like a ______. lol.
This is the same guy that went down and sided with Castro and hates America. It goes without saying that he's an atheist darwinist. hahaha! i just watched the lardgut commie get waterboarded again. Classic comedy! look at him crying! hahaha!
I'm sure you're into Snuff FIlms Too
I don't need to watch your film . This has absolutely no tactical benefits . You approve because it amuses you. What else do you get off on?
Hey!
Your boy Hitchens VOLUNTEERED, Einstein. Just like he volunteered for Fidel Castro back in his youth.
I am glad that our great president Bush stopped INNOCENT people from dying by pouring a little water on a nasty terrorist, though.
You wouldn't understand what it means to be a MAN, though, so I forgive you.
I don't give a shit about being a man
There is nothing manly about tieing somebody down and pouring water into his mouth and nose. I'm sure you could do it quite easily. It has nothing to do with being a man. Why don't we shoot for somthing a little higher - like being HU-MAN. People who commit a crime should be brought to justice - that is not only being a man but being human. Just for the sake of argument - do you know what it means to be a MAN? Not that it is any of your business - but I am a woman . I retired from the Army in 2006 as a Colonel. I served two tours as in Iraq and as a young Captain in Desert Storm. Don't tell me about being a MAN. I couldn't give a shit.
lol
You obviously didn't learn much over there. Those guys aren't criminals. They're animals .
I feel sorry for anyone who served under you.
I Feel Sorry For You
I'm going to end this now. I have nothing else to say to you. My sincerest hope for this country is that we learn to use our welath, power and influence to make this a better place for all of humankind. America is a great nation, but we are far from perfect. I will end this with a couple of quotes from one of our greatest American authors, James Baldwin:
Hatred, which could destroy so much, never failed to destroy the man who hated, and this was an immutable law .
James A. Baldwin
I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.
James A. Baldwin
Waterboarding has been Torture Ever SInce Forever
If you were waterboarded you would think it torture as well. I was in the Army for 23 years. I have seen "volunteers" waterboarded for demonstrationl everyone of them will tell you its torture. I have seen some of the toughest Special Forces Guys you can imagine suddenly becoming big sissies themselves.
If we torture - we torture. But let's not pretend we don't just because we want to call it something else, we can call it "enhanced interogation" - it's still torture. This is nothing new - the technique is well documented throughout history :
Spanish Inquisition - waterboarding called toca, and more recently "Spanish water torture", called tortura del agua, consisted of introducing a cloth into the mouth of the victim, and forcing them to ingest water spilled from a jar so that they had the impression of drowning
Colonial times – 1623 The Dutch East India Company used weatherboarding on Native Americans . At that time, it consisted of wrapping cloth around the victim's head, after which the torturers "poured the water softly upon his head until the cloth was full, up to the mouth and nostrils, and somewhat higher, so that he could not draw breath but he must suck in all the water.
American prisoners prior to World War II
An editorial in The New York Times of 6 April 1852, and a subsequent 21 April 1852 letter to the editors documents an incidence of waterboarding, then called "showering," or "hydropathic torture," This practiced had been outlawed in 1847 .
Prisoners in late 19th-century Alabama, and in Mississippi in the first third of the 20th century, also suffered waterboarding. In Alabama, "prisoners were strapped down on his back; then 'water was poured in his face on the upper lip, and effectually stopped his breathing as long as there was a constant stream'." In Mississippi, the accused was held down, and water was poured "from a dipper into the nose so as to strangle him, thus causing pain and horror, for the purpose of forcing a confession.”
Pretty loose examples
Those are some really loose examples DC.
Who cares what happens to a guy that ought to have been shot on the battlefield anyway?
The only reason to keep someone like that alive anyway is to get info from them.
And He really needed a bath.
More Hitory of Waterboarding
After the Spanish-American War of 1898 - After the Spanish American War of 1898 in the Philippines, the U.S. army used waterboarding , called the " water cure" at the time. Reports of "cruelties" from soldiers stationed in the Philippines led to Senate hearings on U.S. activity there. Testimony described the waterboarding of Tobeniano Ealdama "while supervised by ...Captain/Major Edwin F. Glenn. In 1902 Elihu Root, US Secretary of War ordered Glenn to be court marshaled and he was subsequently convicted. President Theodore Roosevelt (The Republican guy on Mount Rushmore) publicly called for efforts to "prevent the occurrence of all such acts in the future." In that effort, he ordered the court-martial of General Jacob H. Smith on the island of Samar, "Where some of the worst abuses had occurred." When the court-martial found only that he had acted with excessive zeal, Roosevelt disregarded the verdict and had the General dismissed from the Army. Roosevelt soon declared victory in the Philippines, and the public lost interest in "what had, only months earlier, been alarming revelations.
Police "Third degree" - The use of "third degree interrogation " techniques to compel confession, ranging from "psychological duress such as prolonged confinement to extreme violence and torture", was widespread in early American policing. Lassiter classified the water cure as "orchestrated physical abuse ",] and described the police technique as a "modern day variation of the method of water torture that was popular during the Middle Ages". Such techniques were classified as "'covert' third degree torture" since they left no signs of physical abuse, and became popular after 1910 when the direct application of physical violence to force a confession became a media issue and some courts began to deny obviously compelled confessions.
World War II – Both Japanese troops and the Gestapo used waterboarding as a method of torture. During the Japanese occupation of Singapore waterboarding, by the method of binding or holding down the victim on his back, placing a cloth over his mouth and nose, and pouring water onto the cloth. Chase J. Nielsen, one of the US airmen who flew in the Doolittle raid following the attack on Pearl Harbor, was subjected to waterboarding by his Japanese captors. [At their trial for war crimes following the war, he testified "Well, I was put on my back on the floor with my arms and legs stretched out, one guard holding each limb. The towel was wrapped around my face and put across my face and water poured on. They poured water on this towel until I was almost unconscious from strangulation, then they would let up until I'd get my breath, then they'd start over again... I felt more or less like I was drowning, just gasping between life and death ."
Algerian War (1954- 1962) The French journalist Henri Alleg was subjected to waterboarding by French paratroopers in Algeria in 1957, [is one of only a few people to have described in writing the first- hand experience of being waterboarded. His book La Question, published in 1958 with a preface by Jean-Paul Sartre subsequently banned in France until the end of the Algerian War in 1962, discusses the experience of being strapped to a plank, having his head wrapped in cloth and positioned beneath a running tap:Vietnam War - Waterboarding was designated as illegal by U.S. generals in the Vietnam War. On January 21, 1968, The Washington Post published a controversial front-page photograph of two U.S soldiers and one South Vietnamese soldier participating in the waterboarding of a North Vietnamese POW near Da Nang. The article described the practice as "fairly common". The photograph led to the soldier being court-martialled by a U.S. military court within one month of its publication, and he was discharged from the army. Another waterboarding photograph of the same scene, referred to as "water torture" in the caption, is also exhibited in the War Remnants Museum in Ho Chi Minh City.
George just confessed to torture
so there's that -- a confession.
D- in reading comprehension.
I'm not gonna fail you yet because I'm hoping you'll wise up. W didn't admit to torture . he admitted to waterboarding some terrorists. I know you get a hard on for anyone who hates the USA, because you are young and stupid, but W saved a lot of lives by doing that.
Regular honest good, nonperverted people don't really care what happens to a smelly flea-ridden terrorist. According to the rules of war , and the geneva convention, that piece of @#$% could have been summarily executed upon capture, but we Americans are better than that. We put them up at club Gitmo with nice clean rooms, good healthy food , and if they cooperate, they get priveledges that they couldn't even afford in their failing rat hole mohammetan country.
So when you look at it in a realistic fashion, a little water boarding just pays the rent. Most of those guys look like they need a bath anyway.
W is a great man, and he's the only President in history to earn his MBA from Harvard.
Monushka
Waterboarding is torture. It is a crime carried out by morons. Japanese soldiers were hanged for the same crime after WW2.
Even Teddy Roosevelt fired a General in the Philippines for allowing men under his command for committing the same crime.
Arrogance in America was always greater even than the arrogance of Nazi Germany, but then evil people usually are arrogant.
Aside from the extreme anger
dripping from your every post, let me ask you a question.
What is water -boarding? A hobby for the guards to pass the time?
Bush says it saved lives. How did it do that?
waterboarding
is a way to make terrorists talk. If I waterboarded you, you would tell me everything I wanted to know. You would eventually tell me everything, and you would even start to like me, because I would be the good cop, your new pal, who wants to stop those mean men from waterboarding you, if only you would cooperate.
Your fond feelings would remain for decades afterward.
If I combined the waterboarding with drugs and operant conditioning, I could make you deny that it ever even happened. You might even pass valuable tactical information on to me for years after your release, in exchange for money and priviledges, carefully hidden from your terrorist friends.
Waterboarding is Torture
The United States tried and convicted people after WWII and during Vietnam for waterboarding . Additionally, in Texas a sherif and his people we convicted and sentensed for waterboarding prisoners. Never mind that it is ineffective, never mind that it puts our own people at risk if captured .
However, now you can add another war crime to the list that should be investigated - conducting medical research on POWs. Today a group of phisicians have suggested that medical personnel did tests on prisoners being waterboarded and made recommendations as to how to make the procedure more effective. Use saline rather than tap water to avoid doctors recommended adding salt to the water used for waterboarding, so the patient wouldn't experience hyponatremia, "a condition of low sodium levels in the blood caused by free water intoxication."
The report interpreted that doctor -recommended practice of using saline solution as "Waterboarding 2.0."
.Physicians for Human Rights outlined the allegations stemming from a Bush-era interrogation program and called on the White House to investigate. Its report was based on a re-examination and new interpretation of records that had been previously released . The author of the report, Nathaniel Raymond, said the declassified documents had never been examined with an eye on laws including the Nuremberg Code, established to ban Nazi Germany medical experimentation.
But
They really did need a bath.
Well, there is some here and there
It's discouraging that it has not prevailed in the US, though, given everything we have going for us.