(Opinion) Young Children Shooting Machine Guns

By Freedom States Alliance

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  • Pottering
    Your logic is confused

    You say", "I am not, nor was I ever trying to compare specifically, as I said before, the issues of childhood gun deaths and injuries vs. childhood drowning deaths and injuries. I used that specific statistic to make a broader point that applies to all of life for everyone, whether they are a gun owner or not. It is the fact that ", and even with personal responsibility, tragedies happen... even for non-gun owning families.".

    You did compare childhood gun deaths and injuries vs. childhood drowning deaths and injuries, that is a fact, so don't try and tell you didn't.

    You go on to state, "and even with personal responsibility, tragedies happen". Tell us something we don't know.

    With or without personal responsibility tragedies will happen, we all know that. How best to avert tragedies is what we should be investigating. Whether the costs of avoiding tragedies are outweighed by other considerations is a matter for conjecture.

    Public safety does not necessarily mean a loss of personal liberty as you infer. Our personal liberties are already infringed in a number of ways.

    Self defense is NOT outlawed in the UK as you postulate, that's just hyperbole on your point to try and make a case. Stick to the facts, please.

    You go on to make the argument that "Any of those kinds of laws" are a surrender of liberty simply for somebody else's peace of mind. That is breathtakingly arrogant. Believe it not the vast majority of those wanting stricter gun laws want them, not simply for peace of mind, but for actual results, ie Australia's 1996 gun laws instituted to limit the possibility of firearm mass murder and none since.

    You sate that "Not to mention gun bans only make things worse, see: United Kingdom and Australia.". Well now I know why you said upfront "I don't have countless hours to continue to do research". I'm from Australia and I challenge you to provide any factual evidence that our gun laws have made things worse. Over to you.

    - PotteringAU February 14, 2009 9:14PM

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    • RedFish
      Too Easy

      First thing I Googled. Take it for what it's worth. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=21902
      Sure, firearm mass murder is down in Australia, but every other form of violent crime is up.
      Since our liberties are already infringed, we should put up with MORE infringement?
      Yeah the Brits can defend themselves. I think pointed sticks are still legal.
      Lastly, you're from Australia. Enjoy your gun free Utopia and quit dinking with my freedom.

      -RedFish

      - RedFishUS February 16, 2009 8:11PM

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      • Pottering
        Shooting you down in flames is what's "too easy"

        You reckon every other form of violent crime is up in Australia, but the article you linked MISTAKENLY harps on about Australia's burglary rate. Sadly for you and the article author burglary is NOT classified as a violent crime, never has been. I'll explain it for you. Burglary is entering premises and stealing without coming into contact with another person. If there is contact it becomes robbery and armed robbery if weapons are involved. And guess what? Armed robbery in Australia is down since 1996. As for burglary the Australian Bureau of Statistics says "There was an overall decline in the number of UEWI offences between 1995 and 2006." UEWI is Unlawful Entry With Intent and includes burglary, break and enter, and some stealing.

        The article you linked is dated March 2, 2001 and repeats a list of measures for Australia that actually relates to 1997, when the gun buyback was still actually occurring. In other words the data is 12 YEARS OLD and covers a period before the gun buyback could have any chance of real impact. It's includes such gems as "In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300 percent. " PROBLEM is that was an increase in year from 6 gun homicides to 18 and promptly fell back to 6 the following year, and that was 12 years ago!

        My advice to you is NOT rely on recycled garbage to make an argument. If you do you'll be exposed as you were here as someone who puts ideology ahead of facts.

        - PotteringAU February 17, 2009 4:51AM

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        • RedFish
          A little more recent, still too easy.

          AAP General News (Australia)
          08-17-2004
          Vic: Victorian crime rate drops but murder, rape rise

          By Nick Lenaghan and Karen Hart

          MELBOURNE, Aug 17 AAP - Victoria was Australia's safest state despite rising rates of murder and rape, police Chief Commissioner Christine Nixon said today.

          The state's overall crime rate for 2003-04 fell 7.3 per cent - the lowest in a decade - while murders went up by nine per cent and rapes by 11 per cent, according to police crime figures released today.

          Good overall, unless you were murdered or raped. Think a handgun could of stopped a rape or two? But then you would have counted a woman defending herself with a gun as a homicide. Better off to be raped I guess.

          And this in Australia's "safest state."

          -RedFish

          - RedFishUS February 18, 2009 7:01AM

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          • Pottering
            Still too easy? You couldn't get it right first time!

            You obviously have an aversion to the latest available data don't you? First it was 12 year old data, but when that was exposed you switched to 5 year old data.

            At least you recognise a good overall result when it is before your eyes, a 7.3% decline.

            You ask "a handgun could of stopped a rape or two? ", but answer me this. Of the 291,000 rape/attempted rape/sexual assaults in the US in 2005 what per cent of victims attacked or threatened the offender with a weapon (according to DOJ Criminal Victimization in the United States tables)? No, don't bother answering, I'll tell you; 0.0%!

            So YOU reckon that despite a country with much more liberal gun laws than Australia reporting 0.0% of weapon defense against rape/attempted rape/sexual assault, in Australia we might have benefited if guns had been involved! Pull the other one.

            Here's a possibly more telling stat; in those 291,000 rape/attempted rape/sexual assaults firearms were used by the perpetrators in 6.5% of incidents.

            0.0% using guns as defense against rape/attempted rape/sexual assault, but 6.5% using them to commit rape/attempted rape/sexual assault (according to DOJ). It seems pretty clear the role guns play in rape in the US, it's all one way traffic! In Australia they play essentially no part, and never have. I'm not that keen we emulate your performance.

            - PotteringAU February 19, 2009 5:43AM

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