By Focus on the Family
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June 08, 2009
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Rediculous
This is the reason
...that in one generation christian values will be halved in the US. As in - the new generation will abandon these values, or change them to suit their understanding of the world.
You can throw tantrums about it all you want - premarital sex, drug use , masturbation, buddism, anal sex, outer space, evolution , neurological reductionism, gravity, job outsourcing, nanoreplication, relativity, evokution, quarks - and yes, functional evolved homosexual behavior - these all exist and will not go away no matter how you whine about them.
But what is more irksome about murcans whining and bleating about values, is the dichotomy (whine-fest) cultivated back and forth. The "left" is largely in apathy, the "right" keeps on moaning and griping about issues that have been settled a generation ago. If you don't like it - the US constitution allows states to secede. So go ahead, form your own lttle "new iran " paradise before you thrust that mess you call a country in a civil war.
Or else stop whining your values onto the society you are part of.
- Khannea Suntzu
June 12, 2009 1:47AM
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What?
What the hell are you talking about? I'm not bitching about gays, drug use , masturbation, or anything else you claim I am. I said we have the right to teach our kids the morals we hope to see them have as they get older, and that the public school sytem should not be in the business of undermining our efforts to push their own moral agendas (or lack of).
I am not religious, and I am not for pushing prayer on all students. I am against the schools pushing any moral propaganda that contradicts what parents may be teaching their kids.
To give you a better idea, would you like it if the schools started mandating classes that teach that being gay is abnormnal and disgusting? No, I don't think you would, and you would have every right not to want that to happen. Then why is it that the inverse is perfectly ok with you because it fits your beliefs?
I'm not bashing gays, and I'm not saying they should be banned or anything like that. I'm just saying keep the agenda out of the schools. Schools should not be trying to replace parenthood or to override parents.
Finally, you make it sound like the people who thing homosexuality is immoral are in the extreme minority and that we are in the dark ages. I've got news for you, polls have shown that the majority of people nationwide believe it's immmoral. So you can take your progressive "I'm better than you" attitude and shove it.
- kong99
June 12, 2009 4:47AM
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What constitutes a society?
You may have a superficial sense of empowerment, but you need to acknowledge that the society you are in is drifting towards a civil war. I am not exaggerating - we know this concept very well, and we know what it means if an offensive outside entity comes to impose their values. I live in europe.
So, go ahead, impose your values. Enforce them. Dictate what you want and do not want. Paint yourself so far into a noncompromizing corner that the other side will say screw you until hell freezes over. You state - I cannot ever compromize on these issues. The other side will be compelled to do the same and neither side will be capable of any shred of respect. \
So the end result will be either
1- society becoming fractioned in excludist experience bubbles - private schools, seperatist transport, closed off compounds. You will be able to isolate yourself completely from "that other scum".
2- secession. Create your own state, laws and system and enforce those values on others.
3- Civil War.
I do not see how the last is avoidable in the US within one generation.
Bear in mind that you will end up before a judge over here in the netherlands saying the things you say.
- Khannea Suntzu
June 12, 2009 1:05PM
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Impose?
It's funny how you say I am trying to impose my belief on everyone else, because it's the other way around. It's the left imposing their beliefs on our kids , and I don't want them to do that. I guess in your eyes we are supposed to roll over and play dead.
As far as your civil war bullcrap....this has been an age old argument. If civil war comes it will be because of our government becoming fascist....and with Obama, Reid and Pelosi it sure as hall is.
- kong99
June 12, 2009 2:33PM
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You lost me
How am I imposing my values on someone else? I am not trying to destroy the gays. Yes, I openly say that it's immoral, but they openly say it's normal and I don't have a problem with that. People in a free society should be able to speak their opinions.
The gays are the ones trying to impose their values on us through the courts and the schools. How you think that wanting the gay agenda kept out of the schools is forcing our agenda on everyone...I don't get it. It's preventing them from forcing the gay agenda on our kids . Do you see us fighting to have mandated classes speaking out against gays and their rights? No, you don't. It's the other way around.
As far as civil war, that's rediculous. This has been an age old argument and will always be an argument.
Finally....what the hell do you mean when you tell me to keep in mind that I will end up in front of a judge in the netherlands for saying the things I say? You going to come here and drag me out of my country and try me in front of your judges for having an opinion? Good luck on that. Our laws have nothing to do with your laws, and I don't give a hoot what your laws are.
- kong99
June 13, 2009 1:37PM
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You have a bad case of siege mentality
> How am I imposing my values on someone else? I
> am not trying to destroy the gays. Yes, I openly
> say that it's immoral, but they openly say it's normal
> and I don't have a problem with that. People in a free
> society should be able to speak their opinions.
Yes, people in a "SOCIETY" have the right to make any non-incitive statement. But. Currently if you run a store, you are NOT allowed to refuse negroes, or gays as customers. That is the law of the land. You'll get arrested. Likewise, you are barred from making your own coin and trade in it, especially if its a gold coin. So you already tacitly accept you are subject to common laws and the state dictating terms. Now in a "SOCIETY" (a word you seem to want to ignore) you compromise, and the best avenue to compromise on, is when something is determined to be true. Nobody can force you to accept a statement as true, but nevertheless science has more or less determined that homosexuals engaging in homosexual behavior is just people responding to a propensity at the genetic level. You can deny that, as certainly as you can deny a lot of other scientific assertions. The problem then would be if you to label this propensity as "immoral" (and I have trouble picturing what that means in practice) then you assert you will link this assertion to real world consequences. It sounds like "a licence to discriminate or loathe" to me.
> The gays are the ones trying to impose their values on
> us through the courts and the schools. How you think that
> wanting the gay agenda kept out of the schools is forcing
> our agenda on everyone...I don't get it. It's preventing them
> from forcing the gay agenda on our kids . Do you see us
> fighting to have mandated classes speaking out against
> gays and their rights? No, you don't. It's the other way
> around.
Well, to begin with, you insist on saying "us" and "we" and "them". Are you sure there is a definitive border between your side and the gay side? If this is some kind of black and white cultural struggle, where the other side were minions of Sauron, I might be able to empathize - but if I would make a list of people in your side, and were able to screen their privater behavior - all scientific studies done - assert that 5 to 20% of them at some time in their life engage in clear homosexual behavior.
You treat homosexual activities and "strategies" as a moral choice. That is a severe fallacy, by any standard, as wrong as treating some children as demon-possessed, and shunning them. That still happens widespread in Africa, even to this day, mind you. Backward and primitive you'd say - the children massacred in Africa on account of being demon-possessed aren't, and the people doing the killing don't understand basic fundamentals about reality.
> Finally....what the hell do you mean when you tell me to
> keep in mind that I will end up in front of a judge in the
> netherlands for saying the things I say? You going to come
> here and drag me out of my country and try me in front of
> your judges for having an opinion? Good luck on that. Our
> laws have nothing to do with your laws, and I don't give a
> hoot what your laws are.
(continued)
- Khannea Suntzu
June 14, 2009 3:36AM
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(continued)
(continued)
Nnnnooo, granted, dutch laws are utterly irrelevant to an american - just as irrelevant as Iranian laws. But did you actually know that some laws in Iran are treated as universal? So basicly you could do certain things, and if you were ever extradited to Iran, you would be sentenced on having done those in the US?
The SAME is true regarding certain international laws to which your country is co-signatory. This can have serious consequences, and if an american were to be found guilty of human rights violations, he might find himself extradited to a country where he would be persecuted. Incidentally, that is done at the international court, which is located several hundred meters from where I live.
This would and should be academic - but all you need to know is that you live in a society , which is establishing certain values as univerrsal, and you for some reason come to resist those values. In the US schools "for some reason" discuss why homosexuality occurs, and what it entails. You regard this as an "agenda" and completely misattribute causes of as well as behaviors in homosexuals.
Unless you come with arguments why homosexual behavior is objectively bad, you have absolutely no argument. You can scream all you want "you don't take kindly to the color green" but thats no argument, that's a preference. You "don't take kindly to them fags ah their connahvin plans" on grounds of taste ("immoral"). A society can't deal with taste. It would be subject to a vote, and that's that. If you want to resist the gay agenda, you'd have to prove a gay conspiracy exists, and that gayness is a choice. You can't.
So in effect what you are doing is you stopped coming with sound arguments, you retreat into your bastion and you say "I WONT HAVE ANY OF THAT". Once you do that, you are no longer a talking member of any society.
- Khannea Suntzu
June 14, 2009 3:38AM
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International law
First of all, international law is a joke. It is only supported by leftist politicians and filled with leftist laws. International law cannot be imposed on citizens of a nation that doesn't want to participate...as Bush (thankfully) did not. Of course, Obama will bend at every whim of national courts, throwing money at the U.N. and treating the United States as the U.N.'s bitch.
In any case, they aren't going to extradite people for having an anti-gay OPINION. Obama is a fascist, but civil war will happen long before he can get to the point of doing that (and I don't think it will go that far...the overal situation not associated with the gay right issue).
Everywhere you look in this country it is the leftist "lack of values" beliefs that are forced on everyone else via the courts and the schools. The leftist agenda in general and the gay agenda does nothing but destroy family values and degrade social life. The destruction of the family eventually means the destruction of society .
If you don't think a children growing up with two daddies kissing each other in front of them has a psycholgical effect on them, you are completely screwed up in your wiring. Well, you think engaging in anal sex with another man is moral, so I guess we already knew that your wiring is burned up.
There is a much higher chance of the child being gay in that kind of environment , and if that doesn't prove that it's a learned behavior then you are completely ignorant and totally ignoring reality.
By the way, scientists have not proven homosexuality to be in the genetics. You're dreaming. Scientists can conduct any study and manipulate the results to benefit whatever they are trying to prove. It's done all the time. Half of all science is junk and manipulated.
- kong99
June 14, 2009 11:51AM
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Reply #1
> First of all, international law is a joke. It is only supported
> by leftist politicians and filled with leftist laws. International
> law cannot be imposed on citizens of a nation that doesn't
> want to participate...as Bush (thankfully) did not. Of course,
> Obama will bend at every whim of national courts,
> throwing money at the U.N. and treating the United States
> as the U.N.'s bitch.
Translate the above paragraph, if you will, to three seperate equally laughably parochial rants, from three seperate citizens in three seperate governing hyperpowers and you'd see how silly its in the bigger picture. A patrician in ancient rome. A party official in 1980s russia. A well to do islamic scholar and pediatrician in Saudi Arabia. All equally conceited and equally misguided. But granted, people like you don't do "bigger
picture" and all that "leftist stuff". They certainly don't do that in Riyad.
I agree the US is very much isolated from consequences as well as laws imposed from the outside. You do what you want because you can afford to. But, to name but one example, a geopolitical alliance where four of the six major oil exporting entities close a deal and shut down the flow to the US, *unless* is just around the corner. It's all roulette dear. If Venezeala,
Russia, a khalifate Saudi Arabia, Iran, Irak and greater middle east and large parts of western africa can get a more sound currency payment from, say, China, and all these countries have solid motivations to dictate a few laws on the US, you'll see significant changes, just after you see the US collapse as did the soviet union in 1989.
You can rant all about what the stuff you don't like should be called. That's what kids do. When they have to do homework, it's "lame" or "gay". When they have to brush their teeth - "gay", "lame". It becomes just a buzzword with no extra meaning that only serves to alienate your fellow human beings. The word "leftist" dazzles me, and the temper tantrum you throw when attacking "Obama" and "leftists" is looking pretty dismal by now.
> In any case, they aren't going to extradite people for having an
> anti-gay OPINION. Obama is a fascist, but civil war will
> happen long before he can get to the point of doing that (and
> I don't think it will go that far...the over-all situation not
> associated with the gay right issue).
Well, let me tell you one thing (laughing) Obama isn't a fascist.
(laughs some more). I don't know what he is. But yeah, I keep with my opinion that someone, somewhere up the food chain is whipping impressionable people like you up into a fervor, for their own political gains. I mean, 'teabagging parties', abortion doctors murdered, gun rights activists going crazy, fox throwing all but the kitchen sink at "the left", all this cannot end well. So before making any more bold statements, better ask yourself, "are you being tooled and to what end?" .
But alas, you will not. You *clearly* do not have any capacity for
critical self-reflection. Sock puppets rarely notice the hand up their ass.
(continued)
- Khannea Suntzu
June 15, 2009 3:42AM
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2/3 Reply
(continued)
> "Everywhere you look in this country it is the leftist "lack
> of values" beliefs that are forced on everyone else via the
> courts and the schools. The leftist agenda in general and
> the gay agenda does nothing but destroy family values
> and degrade social life. The destruction of the family
> eventually means the destruction of society ."
(keeps laughing) - you are attacking a demographic and you clearly state social incompatibility with them. You don't like "those people". Thats all you say. Those same people *are( your neighbours buddy. They are the people you buy your groceries and the people that can and do spit in your coffee at starbucks.. You are saying - there is a 'clear and distinct' population, who 'consistently choose values and actions that are destroying the fabric of this society. And then you say - "they are
leftists!".
Oh there is a demographic tearing up your country - it is a strata of self-entitled, elitist, money grabbing extremists, and because of the finely grained bullshit that sprayed into your eyes you can't see it is the guy with his hand up your ass, playing you like a violin. WHO benefits from all this? Certainly not "leftists" insofar they exist. Neither is any perceived or real gay demographic. I doubt you even consciously met gays the last year. You have no dear what you are ranting about, or even want to know. You are out on a tribal crusade, a purging process, where a section of tribal society goes about enforcing a strict regimen of tribal edicts.
This cycle is nothing new, but you completely misattribute its origins.
Look at any number of people in the rich earths history and how they go through cycles of abundance and scarcity. In rich times most people lean towards tolerance, acceptance and a change to get with those exotic and sexy foreign girls in a chance to make babies. But in leaner times, a part of your brain kicks in and starts excluding. You enter a xenophobic, militant, territorial, assertive and less compromising mindset. It has always been this way. When things become lean, people go mean. They start looking for a reason, even an imagined or magical reason ("witchcraft!.. sodomy! .. evil vapors! ... jews!") and target in on that reason, sublimating or downright inventing all their subconscious distress against whatever convenient underdog dujour.
But, as I said, you will not and can not recognize this simple fact. One of the most powerful psychological forces at work (and the one most easily used by populist demogogues) is "cognitive dissonance". Google that phrase.
And I am probably a high and mighty leftist uptown elitist using 'em fancy uptown words.
> If you don't think a children growing up with two daddies
> kissing each other in front of them has a psycholgical effect
> on them, you are completely screwed up in your wiring.
No, it has no effect whatsoever. It means absolutely nothing to these kids . Kids just want to be fed, play, learn, feel safe, loved, rewarded for good deeds and grow up. That's all they care about.
But you know what does? - say for instance, a mommy has a fear of spiders and she screams anytime she sees one, *precisely that* is the behavior kids copy.
So if daddy goes pale, trembles in moral outrage and starts talking in an angry voice when he sees a palestinian guy kiss a jewish girl, or when the children across the streets wear flowers in their hair, or when he spots a negro washing his hands in a whites only restroom, or when he spots gipsies on the street after the 7 o clock curfew, or when he spots two husky and virile young guys clawing their hands in unrelenting love
and passion at each other, their tongues lashing in pure bliss, kissing one another as their wellshaped hips ride into one another, grinding with a mutual half erection - than yah, the kids will recognize that conduct as "Poo! Dirty!" like all young mammals do and it probably gets imprinted for LIFE.
Doesn't make it any more sensible.
> Well, you think engaging in anal sex with another man
> is moral, so I guess we already knew that your wiring is
> burned up.
Actually, have you ever tried it? I like it best to get mine two ways, or three ways. There is nothing as delicious about getting it on with several guys, while making out with a girl. All wearing latex! And doncha worry about my wiring, or plumping, or tubes, I got a great package deal.
And no, I am no great supporter of what you term morality. Frankly, I might be best classfied as "post-moral".
(continued)
- Khannea Suntzu
June 15, 2009 3:50AM
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3/4
(continued)
> There is a much higher chance of the child being gay in
> that kind of environment , and if that doesn't prove that it's
> a learned behavior then you are completely ignorant and
> totally ignoring reality.
Well heck ya, one swallow is no proof spring is coming.
Nevertheless, I besiege you, for the love of young kittens, to step beyond your blind assumptions and prejudice, to check your facts. Check them from all side, even if written by a jew, a woman, a european or a leftist. Stop listening to your court-appointed fox shaman for a secomd. The facts are that in any society , in any environment, 6 to 10% of human beings are gay or gay-leaning, women a few % more, and about 20% are fully heterosexual (or, like in your case, very confused about their own sexual identity).
[Quote: Sexuality occurs along a bell curve; the number of people who are 100% gay and 100% straight is relatively small, while the number of people who have the potential for bisexuality is relatively large. In general, everywhere in the world, at all times in human history, 6-10% of the population experiences attraction to people of the same sex. ]
This may come as some kind of complete revelation to you, but no amount of denial will turn a buzzard into a turkey. So better ask yourselves, why in gods name, do human beings have sex with other human beings (or why do MOST of the same-sex animals in the animal kingdom have sex with other same-sex animals) when there is **zero chance on procreation**? The jury is out on this, but the consensus in academic (highly paid, highly educated, elitist, conniving, out for your tax dollars, deceitful largely leftist) circles is that homosexual specimen
function as an overflow valve to curtail sexual aggression. For the same reason it is standard practice in all prisons "to spread the homosexuals, the kind that willingly submit to oral and anal sex around" through the population. Ask a correctional officer with management responsibilities - they'll nod nervously.
Making gays available to the more dominant male heterosexuals reduces the incidence on anal rape (which is very costly in a prison system) and it sooths tensions. Just throw around some porn magazines in prison and all will be quiet that night.
In effect - the prison example shows that homosexual males and females do function as a societal release valve to the same sex heterosexuals when breeding partners are less available. There
is a clear biological function and mechanism at work - however ever so unfortunately you keep insisting gayness is some kind of fashion statement or career choice, or the effect of "unclean vapors" or whatnot. This simply isn't the case. Even THOUGH THE SIGHT OF TWO MUSTACHED MEN TONGUE-WRESTLING might have an undue effect on your sexual potency (admit it, you felt something stirring there) it will not and it can not go away.
The real gays and the real lesbians regard an actual sexual act with a different sex partner with the same traumatized terror as *you* regard softly cuddling and nibbling the earlobe of that hirsute and mustached fireman that lives down your street. (You know who I a talking about, the guy you always joke around with about mexicans)
A real lesbian *can't* have sex with a man. A real gay guy *can't* ever have sex with a woman. And yah, there are bisexuals galore, heathen degenerates like me, in different shades, some with significant appetites (and mine *would* threaten you sexually and leave you spiteful, vindictive, a woman
hater for the rest of your life) and others closeted and playing the
"normal person" game for their entire lives.
Anyone can be gay, even your dad, and not have the courage to come out.
Look, I know - if you aren't accustomed to the idea, eating oysters is a horribly idea. HOW CAN A SANE PERSON DO THAT?. I know, human beings have a virulent disgust reflex, and it serves a good use judging where we come from. Disease has always been been us, and we are evolved to avoid it. So
when a parent howls in panic when their kids touch "those purple berries", you can bet the kids remember that lesson and stay away from the purple ones.
As such, we do live in a societal order that is fairly new, and there are many biological impulses at odds with the current arrangement of"marriage".
[ http://www.impactlab.com/2007/04/27/adultery-survey-the-20-rule /]
The numbers of children where daddy was miraculously revealed not to be daddy is somewhere between 5 and 20%, depending on the study done. Routinely when a physician notices this, they keep quiet about it, but as it appears, women do select
outside the marriage for better stallions.
Maybe your wife did that once or twice - maybe she had it off with a "mostly" gay guy, you never can tell. Maybe one or two of your kids is a carryer of the gayness gene?
(continued)
- Khannea Suntzu
June 15, 2009 4:03AM
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(4/4)
(continued)
As it appears, the marriage is kind of an artificial and contrived device and it doesn't always stay to to the promise, as many post-delusionment divorcee's can attest to. Marriage was eternal when people lived to a ripe old age of 35 and had eight children
by then - but in our world it is not. You can call all that revelatory insight to be "leftist crock", but I choose to term assorted things "short-sighted, parochial, prejudiced, infantile, tantrums, whining, xenophobic", so who's to say whats real and what is not?
> By the way, scientists have not proven homosexuality to
> be in the genetics. You're dreaming. Scientists can
> conduct any study and manipulate the results to benefit
> whatever they are trying to prove. It's done all the
> time. Half of all science is junk and manipulated.
Yah sure, wellcome to the third world and the middle ages, where they also take reason and science with a grain of salt. If you ever get around to it, be sure to google "peer review" and "falsifiability".
Actually, I rather you would stick to rejecting science - I personally *want* people like you living in primitivity,
squallor, fear, poverty and disease.
But before I banish you from the realms of plenty and leftism and reason just yet, let me ask you - you have a son or daughter, very close to the age of 17 (adult)? About where do you live? I wanna take him/her to a gay bar and show her/him the world.
(end)
- Khannea Suntzu
June 15, 2009 4:05AM
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Woops, sorry
I posted two replies to this response basically repeating the same thing. I apologize. The first reply was made a while back and it wasn't visible on the screen. I forgot about it.
- kong99
June 13, 2009 2:04PM
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