OPINION: A Nation Gone Gun Crazy: Young Children Shooting Machine Guns

By Freedom States Alliance , Working to Prevent Gun Violence - December 08, 2008

Comments(6) | (0)
We are a nation that is out of step with other industrialized countries when it comes to the issue of kids and guns. While most nations recognize that absolutely no good can come of exposing children to guns at a young age, we live in a gun culture that promotes romantic notions of generations of families hunting and shooting together. In light of the recent tragic death of an 8-year-old boy, Christopher Bizilj, who unintentionally killed himself while shooting an Uzi at the Westfield ... Read the Full Article
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  • mobilemarvel
    The Purpose of My Reply...

    Wow! There is so much here to take issue with. Unfortunately I don't write for a living so I don't have countless hours to continue to do research and write on this. I want to address a few things you said specifically and then I have to move on.

    I am not, nor was I ever trying to compare specifically, as I said before, the issues of childhood gun deaths and injuries vs. childhood drowning deaths and injuries. I used that specific statistic to make a broader point that applies to all of life for everyone, whether they are a gun owner or not. It is the fact that personally responsibility is the only thing that will prevent tragedies, and even with personal responsibility, tragedies happen... even for non-gun owning families. Life happens, and when we decide as a people to restrict freedom for safety, we have given up the only thing that matters. I could have used the statistics for many other types of childhood injury or death which actually are higher and more closely mirror the age dynamic of firearms deaths for children, but my point was never direct comparison. My point was that no matter what you do... ban guns, swimming pools, anything built higher than 4ft above ground level (as last I checked more children are injured or die in falls than by guns), ban everything you can think of that kills children and children will still die due to tragedy.

    Again, I risk sounding callous in writing this, but I believe that personal liberty is more important to our society than any notion of "public safety." For without personal liberty, there is no freedom, and without freedom, who the hell wants to be alive anyway? I would recommend that anyone who is more concerned with preventing the so-called "needless deaths" within the United States pack up their belongings and move to Europe. For instance, in the United Kingdom, they are so concerned with preventing "needless deaths" that they have already outlawed guns, any form of self-defense whatsoever, even if someone is trying to kill you, and they are well on the way to banning knives as well. Don't ruin my country, move to somewhere that they have already given up on their personal freedom for the false pretense of safety.

    You stated that I think "unless such things achieve a complete solution then they are a waste of time." While you are partially correct, I do need to correct you on one thing: Any of those kinds of laws are not only a waste of time, but a surrender of liberty for the sake of some people's peace of mind. I am not willing to accept that. Peace of mind will not keep me safe from some piece of crap gangster or junkie who wants to impress his ghetto friends or score another hit of smack from killing me when I won't give him what he wants. In this world, as long as there is evil, I will use the most effective means of keeping that evil from hurting myself or my family. These useless social pariah will never give up the tools that they use to take advantage of good honest people, and therefore I will not give up mine. Not to mention gun bans only make things worse, see: United Kingdom and Australia.

    That is really all of the time that I have to address this issue. Maybe this time you can see my actual point instead of fixating on the numbers.

    P.S. The numbers do show that gun deaths and injuries of children is at an all time low and is in the BOTTOM 5 things that injure or kill our children.

    - mobilemarvelUS February 13, 2009 1:53PM

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    • Pottering
      Your logic is confused

      You say", "I am not, nor was I ever trying to compare specifically, as I said before, the issues of childhood gun deaths and injuries vs. childhood drowning deaths and injuries. I used that specific statistic to make a broader point that applies to all of life for everyone, whether they are a gun owner or not. It is the fact that ", and even with personal responsibility, tragedies happen... even for non-gun owning families.".

      You did compare childhood gun deaths and injuries vs. childhood drowning deaths and injuries, that is a fact, so don't try and tell you didn't.

      You go on to state, "and even with personal responsibility, tragedies happen". Tell us something we don't know.

      With or without personal responsibility tragedies will happen, we all know that. How best to avert tragedies is what we should be investigating. Whether the costs of avoiding tragedies are outweighed by other considerations is a matter for conjecture.

      Public safety does not necessarily mean a loss of personal liberty as you infer. Our personal liberties are already infringed in a number of ways.

      Self defense is NOT outlawed in the UK as you postulate, that's just hyperbole on your point to try and make a case. Stick to the facts, please.

      You go on to make the argument that "Any of those kinds of laws" are a surrender of liberty simply for somebody else's peace of mind. That is breathtakingly arrogant. Believe it not the vast majority of those wanting stricter gun laws want them, not simply for peace of mind, but for actual results, ie Australia's 1996 gun laws instituted to limit the possibility of firearm mass murder and none since.

      You sate that "Not to mention gun bans only make things worse, see: United Kingdom and Australia.". Well now I know why you said upfront "I don't have countless hours to continue to do research". I'm from Australia and I challenge you to provide any factual evidence that our gun laws have made things worse. Over to you.

      - PotteringAU February 14, 2009 9:14PM

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      • RedFish
        Too Easy

        First thing I Googled. Take it for what it's worth. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=21902
        Sure, firearm mass murder is down in Australia, but every other form of violent crime is up.
        Since our liberties are already infringed, we should put up with MORE infringement?
        Yeah the Brits can defend themselves. I think pointed sticks are still legal.
        Lastly, you're from Australia. Enjoy your gun free Utopia and quit dinking with my freedom.

        -RedFish

        - RedFishUS February 16, 2009 8:11PM

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        • Pottering
          Shooting you down in flames is what's "too easy"

          You reckon every other form of violent crime is up in Australia, but the article you linked MISTAKENLY harps on about Australia's burglary rate. Sadly for you and the article author burglary is NOT classified as a violent crime, never has been. I'll explain it for you. Burglary is entering premises and stealing without coming into contact with another person. If there is contact it becomes robbery and armed robbery if weapons are involved. And guess what? Armed robbery in Australia is down since 1996. As for burglary the Australian Bureau of Statistics says "There was an overall decline in the number of UEWI offences between 1995 and 2006." UEWI is Unlawful Entry With Intent and includes burglary, break and enter, and some stealing.

          The article you linked is dated March 2, 2001 and repeats a list of measures for Australia that actually relates to 1997, when the gun buyback was still actually occurring. In other words the data is 12 YEARS OLD and covers a period before the gun buyback could have any chance of real impact. It's includes such gems as "In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300 percent. " PROBLEM is that was an increase in year from 6 gun homicides to 18 and promptly fell back to 6 the following year, and that was 12 years ago!

          My advice to you is NOT rely on recycled garbage to make an argument. If you do you'll be exposed as you were here as someone who puts ideology ahead of facts.

          - PotteringAU February 17, 2009 4:51AM

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          • RedFish
            A little more recent, still too easy.

            AAP General News (Australia)
            08-17-2004
            Vic: Victorian crime rate drops but murder, rape rise

            By Nick Lenaghan and Karen Hart

            MELBOURNE, Aug 17 AAP - Victoria was Australia's safest state despite rising rates of murder and rape, police Chief Commissioner Christine Nixon said today.

            The state's overall crime rate for 2003-04 fell 7.3 per cent - the lowest in a decade - while murders went up by nine per cent and rapes by 11 per cent, according to police crime figures released today.

            Good overall, unless you were murdered or raped. Think a handgun could of stopped a rape or two? But then you would have counted a woman defending herself with a gun as a homicide. Better off to be raped I guess.

            And this in Australia's "safest state."

            -RedFish

            - RedFishUS February 18, 2009 7:01AM

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            • Pottering
              Still too easy? You couldn't get it right first time!

              You obviously have an aversion to the latest available data don't you? First it was 12 year old data, but when that was exposed you switched to 5 year old data.

              At least you recognise a good overall result when it is before your eyes, a 7.3% decline.

              You ask "a handgun could of stopped a rape or two? ", but answer me this. Of the 291,000 rape/attempted rape/sexual assaults in the US in 2005 what per cent of victims attacked or threatened the offender with a weapon (according to DOJ Criminal Victimization in the United States tables)? No, don't bother answering, I'll tell you; 0.0%!

              So YOU reckon that despite a country with much more liberal gun laws than Australia reporting 0.0% of weapon defense against rape/attempted rape/sexual assault, in Australia we might have benefited if guns had been involved! Pull the other one.

              Here's a possibly more telling stat; in those 291,000 rape/attempted rape/sexual assaults firearms were used by the perpetrators in 6.5% of incidents.

              0.0% using guns as defense against rape/attempted rape/sexual assault, but 6.5% using them to commit rape/attempted rape/sexual assault (according to DOJ). It seems pretty clear the role guns play in rape in the US, it's all one way traffic! In Australia they play essentially no part, and never have. I'm not that keen we emulate your performance.

              - PotteringAU February 19, 2009 5:43AM

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