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Is Homosexuality a Sin?

There has been no shortage of controversy as gay people assume increased roles as parents and married couples in our society, but almost nowhere has this conflict been more intense than in the church. Many religious leaders have condemned homosexuality, calling it a sin or even an abomination, but for millions of gay people around the world, there is nothing inherently sinful about their sexual preferences.

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Regarding Argument

To Answer That Interesting Question, We Must Understand What Sin Is

Romans 1

Romans 1:24 - Therefore God gave them up in the lust of their hearts to impurity, to the degrading of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the TRUTH of God for a LIE and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed. For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

This is an unnatural lifesytle.. and it states that they exchanged the truth for a lie. How much more specific could the scriptures be?

- crash September 15, 2008 7:12PM

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- Unnatural meant non-procreative
  
  Crash wrote:
  
  "This is an unnatural lifesytle.. and it states that they exchanged the truth for a lie. How much more specific could the scriptures be?"
  
  The problem with your viewpoint is that you begin with two false presuppositions.
  
  a. That Paul is talking about committed, faithful, non-cultic, same sex partnerships in Romans 1:26-27
  
  b. That Paul agrees with your twenty first century viewpoint on homosexuality.
  
  Paul is not dealing with homosexuality as such in Romans 1. That is not at all his point. His argument is about IDOLATRY and he mentions shrine prostitution as evidence of idolatry.
  
  http://www.gaychristian101.com/Romans-1.html
  
  - Rick Brentlinger September 16, 2008 9:45AM
  
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  - Romans 1 Response
    
    Let me show you what Romans 1 says:
    
    So homosexuality is viewed as "alright" in this passage? That definitely is not the case. Here it says: "For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error."
    
    So it states that "homosexuality" is not "NATURAL" and that the men also received the "Due Penalty" for their error (men and women committing "unatural" relations with same gender).
    
    It then goes onto say: " 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them."
    
    Here it tells us that those who practiced "unnatural relations" with same gender, were filled with unrighteousness, evil, malice, etc. It says they also not only commit all these acts, but give approval to others to do the same. It says the "God's decree" to those who practice such things is to "die."
    
    So again, explain to me.... why is homosexuality not a sin? Do you know what the term sin means. Sin is essentially "rebellion against God." If God says that practicing same gender sex is against his decree, which means those who practice are "rebelling against God's decree," therefore that means they are "sinning."
    
    It is simple logic.
    
    - quiet4no1 October 20, 2008 12:33AM
    
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    - Please focus on context instead of your opinion.
      
      Dear quiet4no1:
      
      Reading into the text what Paul did not say (a universal prohibition of homosexuality) is called eisogesis - wrongly interpreting the text. That kind of faulty interpretation is unworthy of Christians who love the word of God.
      
      This Link will assist our mutual understanding of Romans 1.
      
      http://www.gaychristian101.com/Against-Nature.html
      
      Paul's words to the Christian community in ancient Rome come from his knowledge of the first century world in which he lived. His carefully tailored argument against idolatry (not lesbianism and not homosexuality) in Romans 1 is set in the specific context of Gentile and Jewish history, complete with first century illustrations familiar to his first century readers.
      
      Paul’s readers were intimately acquainted, as we are not, with Greek, Jewish and Roman culture and the shrine prostitution which permeated those ancient cultures.
      
      Is it honest to deny the influence of fertility goddess cults which flourished in first century Rome?
      
      http://www.gaychristian101.com/Romans-1-And-Homosexuality.html
      
      Paul Talks About Gentile Idolatry In Romans 1, Not Homosexuals And Not Lesbians.
      
      "For this cause [idolatry] God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
      
      And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." - Romans 1:26-27
      
      Idolatry (not lesbianism and not homosexuality) is the hook that catches Gentiles and Jews and allows Paul to declare everyone guilty before a holy God, Romans 3:23.
      
      Idolatry, not homosexuality and not lesbianism, is the specific context of Paul's argument in Romans 1.
      
      Shrine prostitution is certainly how Paul's first century readers understood his words in Romans 1 and that is how we ought to understand Romans.
      
      Rick Brentlinger
      http://www.gaychristian101.com/Saved.html
      
      - Rick Brentlinger October 20, 2008 9:55AM
      
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      - Your interpretation ignores context
        
        Above you have stated that because of idolatry, God gave them unto their vile affections. What were the vile affections? It explains that next: women and men exchanging in unnatural relations with the same gender.
        
        The word "vile" is defined as:
        
        1. Loathsome; disgusting: vile language.
        2. Unpleasant or objectionable: vile weather. See Synonyms at offensive.
        3.
        a. Contemptibly low in worth or account; second-rate.
        b. Of mean or low condition.
        4. Miserably poor and degrading; wretched: a vile existence.
        5. Morally depraved; ignoble or wicked: a vile conspiracy.
        
        Obviously, something that is "vile" is not GOOD.
        
        In this passage, God gives them over to their own selfish and bad desires (such as homosexuality) because they have committed idolatry.
        
        Because God gave them over to homosexuality because of idolatry does not make it "right." They were choosing to worship themselves and creatures instead of God, so he gave them over to their other bad desires.
        
        The context is about what God did because of men and women idolizing things other than him. He gave them over to their "foolish," "unnatural," and "vile" desires. Homosexuality was one of those desires.
        
        - quiet4no1 October 20, 2008 10:02AM
        
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  - Response to Gay Christian 101
    
    It does refer to many parts of Idolatry in Romans 1, but even so it describes same gender sex and attractions as "vile affections." That means God did not approve if it was called "vile." Another point, "lusting" is a sin. If homosexuals are lusting towards another, they are sinning as well.
    
    The point I am trying to make, is that "homosexuality" is never described as "good" in the bible, meaning we should consider not being involved in it. It is considered as vile, impurity (v. 24), to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves (v. 25). He gave them up because they we committing idolatry to many things, including other men and women.
    
    Their is due penalty for their error in practicing their lusts for the same gender (v. 26-27).
    
    That is why homosexuality is a sin. It involves practicing the "opposite" and "unnatural" ways that are against the way God created us to function.
    
    - quiet4no1 October 20, 2008 9:37AM
    
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    - Please, pay attention to context.
      
      quiet4no1 wrote:
      
      [Romans 1] "describes same gender sex and attractions as 'vile affections.'"
      
      In the Bible, there are a number of passages about heterosexual rape - Genesis 34 and Judges 19 and 2 Samuel 13. No thoughtful person would conclude that heterosexuality is wrong based on Bible passages about rape.
      
      Just so, no thoughtful person would conclude that committed, faithful, non-cultic same sex partnerships are wrong based on a Bible passage about idolatry and shrine prostitution (Romans 1). When pagans engage in same sex activity to worship the fertility goddess, that cultic activity never provides an honest basis to condemn committed, faithful, non-cultic same sex relationships.
      
      In reality, your conclusion is at odds with the cultural, doctrinal, historical and scriptural context. The context is shrine prostitution - pagan sexual worship of the fertility goddess - not lesbianism and not homosexuality in the sense of loving, committed, faithful, same sex partnerships.
      
      http://www.jeramyt.org/papers/paulcybl.html
      
      One need not be gay or lesbian to understand that Cybele was THE leading fertility goddess in first century Rome.
      
      http://www.forumancientcoins.com/moonmoth/reverse_cybele.html
      
      The context of Romans 1 is not now and never has been lesbianism or homosexuality.
      
      The context of Romans 1 is idolatry and the sexual practices which spring from idolatry.
      
      Rick Brentlinger
      http://www.gaychristian101.com/Romans-And-Shrine-Prostitution.html
      
      - Rick Brentlinger October 20, 2008 10:43AM
      
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      - You already ignored the "Context"
        
        Your idea only states you do not believe homosexuality is wrong. You hold the ground that you and only people who believe like you are "thoughtful." I guess it is fair to conclude you believe heterosexual rape is "okay" ans not a sin as well.
        
        You obviously haven't studied the subject of sin period. I have a good link to my page that I wrote, regarding to what sin is, check it out here:
        
        http://innovationapologetics.blogspot.com/2008/09/sin-what-is-it.html
        
        Yes, Romans 1 is talking about idolatry. Because people idolized many things and not God, he gave them over to their "FOOLISH" desires: same gender attractions. He also described the same gender relationships as "vile" and "unnatural." If something is unnatural, it means God did not create it for thaat purpose in nature. So homosexual practices are not something God intended to happen.
        
        Something that is considered bad and unnatural by God can not be good. He gave those people who were idolators over to their sinful desires, such as homosexual practices.
        
        Yes there was worshipping of sex goddesses. Homosexuality does stem from idolatry, because men and women were idolizing not only sex godesses, but others of the same sex. Unlike other sins, this sexual sin has a judgment administered by God Himself: He gives them over to their passions (Rom. 1:26-28). This means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins. As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing. Without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance. Without repentance, there will be no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation.
        
        Also, a homosexual "partnership" would be very sinful regardless, because sex outside of marriage is a "sin" and marriage was to be between a man and woman, not two males or two females.
        
        I am not judgemental towards homosexuality, as it is just one of many sins, although it can be more emotional and harder to overcome. There are more passages on homosexuality is wrong throughout scripture:
        
        1) Lev. 18:22: "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
        
        2) Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."
        
        3)1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals1, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
        
        Now hmmm... it seems to me that homosexualityis clearly stated as "wrong" and against the will of God. Anything contrary to the will of God is "Sin."
        
        Your turn
        
        - quiet4no1 October 20, 2008 2:32PM
        
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        Have you read the rest of this discussion?
        
        quiet4no1-
        
        Have you taken the time to read the rest of this discussion? Your last post reads like you have no idea of the preceding discussion.
        
        Most of the material I previously cited can be found on this page, with the many Links provided there.
        
        http://www.gaychristian101.com/My-Coming-Out.html
        
        Suffice it to say that in previous posts, I have more than adequately covered each of the scriptures you quoted.
        
        For you too quote them again, as if they can only be negative statements about committed, faithful, non-cultic same sex partnerships is less than thoughtful.
        
        None of the verses you cited even mention homosexuality in Hebrew and Greek. You are reading your twenty first century notions into texts that are 2000 - 3400 years old.
        
        In some English versions, (I Corinthians 6:9 for example), translators have inserted a false translation, using the word, homosexual, when that word was never in the original.
        
        http://www.gaychristian101.com/Define-Arsenokoites.html
        
        I encourage you to do additional prayerful study.
        
        Your brother in Christ,
        
        Rick Brentlinger
        http://www.gaychristian101.com/Jesus-On-Hell.html
        
        - Rick Brentlinger October 20, 2008 4:57PM
        
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        I appreciate your desire to find and embrace truth.
        
        Upon reflection, it might be helpful if I briefly address the verses you quoted.
        
        Lev 18:22 and 20:13 - These verses were NEVER about committed, faithful, non-cultic same sex relationships.
        
        http://www.gaychristian101.com/Shrine-Prostitutes.html
        
        http://www.gaychristian101.com/Abomination.html
        
        http://www.gaychristian101.com/Molech.html
        
        http://www.gaychristian101.com/Cult-Prostitutes.html
        
        http://www.gaychristian101.com/Leviticus.html
        
        I Cor 6:9 and I Tim 1:10 - These verses were never about committed, faithful, non-cultic same sex relationships.
        
        Malakoi
        
        http://www.gaychristian101.com/Malakoi.html
        
        http://www.gaychristian101.com/Define-Malakoi.html
        
        Arsenokoitai
        
        http://www.gaychristian101.com/Arsenokoites.html
        
        http://www.gaychristian101.com/Define-Arsenokoites.html
        
        Hope this is helpful in your continued study of these interesting texts.
        
        Your brother in Christ,
        
        Rick Brentlinger
        http://www.gaychristian101.com/Gay-Marriage.html
        
        - Rick Brentlinger October 20, 2008 5:07PM
        
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        Rebuttal
        
        They are never about "committed, faithful, non-cultic same sex relationships." That is what you believe correct.
        
        So I guess I would have to prove that sex before marriage is a sin first (because it was talking about men and women lying with the same gender). Then I would have to go into detail about how God created man and woman to procreate, not man and man or woman and woman. Finally I would have to show you that a "Godly" relationship includes a male and female (not 2 of same gender).
        
        This is all evdent from scripture, yet you ignore those points.
        
        You told me that Lev. 18:22 is not about those committed relationships between male and male...correct? Yet this is what it states: "Lev. 18:22: "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
        
        It states that ANYONE that lies with a male as one lies with a female is an abomination. Lets define abomination: loathsome, hateful, wicked, or vile, forbidden, and unclean.
        
        It is telling everyone that no one should lie with the same gender, because it is unclean, forbidden, vile, wicked, etc.
        
        So you can't take out those who participate in this act because they are more "committed" than others. Christians practicing sex before marriage can not say, "We are committed, so it must not be sinning." It is sin no matter how committed we are. Same goes for God's view on homosexuality.
        
        1 Corinthians 6:9 - the word you gave me, Arsenokoitai, translates in the Greek as a "sodomite: one who practices sodomy."
        
        "Sodomy is a term used today predominantly in law (derived from traditional Christian usage) to describe the act of anal intercourse, oral intercourse, as well as bestiality. When used in a religious context, it has a negative connotation (wikipedia)."
        
        In many translations, the word is translated as "effeminate" which according to Merriam-Webster, its defined as: "having feminine qualities untypical of a man : not manly in appearance or manner."
        
        That would mean that any man who "has feminine qualities untypical of a man, and that does not act in a manly manner nor look like one in appearance, shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
        
        The reason it is translated as "homosexual" is because the word "effeminate" describes a homosexual man. It also says those who practice this lifestyle of sodomy, which is exactly what homosexuals do, correct?
        
        **You need to either rebuttal me with your own words and beliefs, not 20 web pages that I am not going to read. Why be debating if you are just going to tell us to read? If you can't make your point by using scripture and logic, then you shouldn't be considered an expert on the topic.
        
        - quiet4no1 October 20, 2008 7:37PM
        
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