By Focus on the Family
, Traditional Family Advocacy
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June 08, 2009
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Schools and mandating pro-gay teaching.
Rediculous
You are a typical liberal. Any opinion that doesn't agree with yours is branded hate speech . Anyone with a religious belief is branded a wacko and extreme. Yes, there are some religous wackos, but the vast majority of Americans identify themselves as Christian.
We have the right to teach our kids right from wrong. It is becoming increasingly difficult with mandated leftist agendas being forced into our kids' heads against our wishes. Schools should not be in the business of teaching social issues, because there are too many opposing views. Shools should teach things that have no moral opinions injected into them...period.
- kong99
June 10, 2009 1:42PM
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This is the reason
...that in one generation christian values will be halved in the US. As in - the new generation will abandon these values, or change them to suit their understanding of the world.
You can throw tantrums about it all you want - premarital sex, drug use , masturbation, buddism, anal sex, outer space, evolution , neurological reductionism, gravity, job outsourcing, nanoreplication, relativity, evokution, quarks - and yes, functional evolved homosexual behavior - these all exist and will not go away no matter how you whine about them.
But what is more irksome about murcans whining and bleating about values, is the dichotomy (whine-fest) cultivated back and forth. The "left" is largely in apathy, the "right" keeps on moaning and griping about issues that have been settled a generation ago. If you don't like it - the US constitution allows states to secede. So go ahead, form your own lttle "new iran " paradise before you thrust that mess you call a country in a civil war.
Or else stop whining your values onto the society you are part of.
- Khannea Suntzu
June 12, 2009 1:47AM
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What?
What the hell are you talking about? I'm not bitching about gays, drug use , masturbation, or anything else you claim I am. I said we have the right to teach our kids the morals we hope to see them have as they get older, and that the public school sytem should not be in the business of undermining our efforts to push their own moral agendas (or lack of).
I am not religious, and I am not for pushing prayer on all students. I am against the schools pushing any moral propaganda that contradicts what parents may be teaching their kids.
To give you a better idea, would you like it if the schools started mandating classes that teach that being gay is abnormnal and disgusting? No, I don't think you would, and you would have every right not to want that to happen. Then why is it that the inverse is perfectly ok with you because it fits your beliefs?
I'm not bashing gays, and I'm not saying they should be banned or anything like that. I'm just saying keep the agenda out of the schools. Schools should not be trying to replace parenthood or to override parents.
Finally, you make it sound like the people who thing homosexuality is immoral are in the extreme minority and that we are in the dark ages. I've got news for you, polls have shown that the majority of people nationwide believe it's immmoral. So you can take your progressive "I'm better than you" attitude and shove it.
- kong99
June 12, 2009 4:47AM
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What constitutes a society?
You may have a superficial sense of empowerment, but you need to acknowledge that the society you are in is drifting towards a civil war. I am not exaggerating - we know this concept very well, and we know what it means if an offensive outside entity comes to impose their values. I live in europe.
So, go ahead, impose your values. Enforce them. Dictate what you want and do not want. Paint yourself so far into a noncompromizing corner that the other side will say screw you until hell freezes over. You state - I cannot ever compromize on these issues. The other side will be compelled to do the same and neither side will be capable of any shred of respect. \
So the end result will be either
1- society becoming fractioned in excludist experience bubbles - private schools, seperatist transport, closed off compounds. You will be able to isolate yourself completely from "that other scum".
2- secession. Create your own state, laws and system and enforce those values on others.
3- Civil War.
I do not see how the last is avoidable in the US within one generation.
Bear in mind that you will end up before a judge over here in the netherlands saying the things you say.
- Khannea Suntzu
June 12, 2009 1:05PM
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Impose?
It's funny how you say I am trying to impose my belief on everyone else, because it's the other way around. It's the left imposing their beliefs on our kids , and I don't want them to do that. I guess in your eyes we are supposed to roll over and play dead.
As far as your civil war bullcrap....this has been an age old argument. If civil war comes it will be because of our government becoming fascist....and with Obama, Reid and Pelosi it sure as hall is.
- kong99
June 12, 2009 2:33PM
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You lost me
How am I imposing my values on someone else? I am not trying to destroy the gays. Yes, I openly say that it's immoral, but they openly say it's normal and I don't have a problem with that. People in a free society should be able to speak their opinions.
The gays are the ones trying to impose their values on us through the courts and the schools. How you think that wanting the gay agenda kept out of the schools is forcing our agenda on everyone...I don't get it. It's preventing them from forcing the gay agenda on our kids . Do you see us fighting to have mandated classes speaking out against gays and their rights? No, you don't. It's the other way around.
As far as civil war, that's rediculous. This has been an age old argument and will always be an argument.
Finally....what the hell do you mean when you tell me to keep in mind that I will end up in front of a judge in the netherlands for saying the things I say? You going to come here and drag me out of my country and try me in front of your judges for having an opinion? Good luck on that. Our laws have nothing to do with your laws, and I don't give a hoot what your laws are.
- kong99
June 13, 2009 1:37PM
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You have a bad case of siege mentality
> How am I imposing my values on someone else? I
> am not trying to destroy the gays. Yes, I openly
> say that it's immoral, but they openly say it's normal
> and I don't have a problem with that. People in a free
> society should be able to speak their opinions.
Yes, people in a "SOCIETY" have the right to make any non-incitive statement. But. Currently if you run a store, you are NOT allowed to refuse negroes, or gays as customers. That is the law of the land. You'll get arrested. Likewise, you are barred from making your own coin and trade in it, especially if its a gold coin. So you already tacitly accept you are subject to common laws and the state dictating terms. Now in a "SOCIETY" (a word you seem to want to ignore) you compromise, and the best avenue to compromise on, is when something is determined to be true. Nobody can force you to accept a statement as true, but nevertheless science has more or less determined that homosexuals engaging in homosexual behavior is just people responding to a propensity at the genetic level. You can deny that, as certainly as you can deny a lot of other scientific assertions. The problem then would be if you to label this propensity as "immoral" (and I have trouble picturing what that means in practice) then you assert you will link this assertion to real world consequences. It sounds like "a licence to discriminate or loathe" to me.
> The gays are the ones trying to impose their values on
> us through the courts and the schools. How you think that
> wanting the gay agenda kept out of the schools is forcing
> our agenda on everyone...I don't get it. It's preventing them
> from forcing the gay agenda on our kids . Do you see us
> fighting to have mandated classes speaking out against
> gays and their rights? No, you don't. It's the other way
> around.
Well, to begin with, you insist on saying "us" and "we" and "them". Are you sure there is a definitive border between your side and the gay side? If this is some kind of black and white cultural struggle, where the other side were minions of Sauron, I might be able to empathize - but if I would make a list of people in your side, and were able to screen their privater behavior - all scientific studies done - assert that 5 to 20% of them at some time in their life engage in clear homosexual behavior.
You treat homosexual activities and "strategies" as a moral choice. That is a severe fallacy, by any standard, as wrong as treating some children as demon-possessed, and shunning them. That still happens widespread in Africa, even to this day, mind you. Backward and primitive you'd say - the children massacred in Africa on account of being demon-possessed aren't, and the people doing the killing don't understand basic fundamentals about reality.
> Finally....what the hell do you mean when you tell me to
> keep in mind that I will end up in front of a judge in the
> netherlands for saying the things I say? You going to come
> here and drag me out of my country and try me in front of
> your judges for having an opinion? Good luck on that. Our
> laws have nothing to do with your laws, and I don't give a
> hoot what your laws are.
(continued)
- Khannea Suntzu
June 14, 2009 3:36AM
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(continued)
(continued)
Nnnnooo, granted, dutch laws are utterly irrelevant to an american - just as irrelevant as Iranian laws. But did you actually know that some laws in Iran are treated as universal? So basicly you could do certain things, and if you were ever extradited to Iran, you would be sentenced on having done those in the US?
The SAME is true regarding certain international laws to which your country is co-signatory. This can have serious consequences, and if an american were to be found guilty of human rights violations, he might find himself extradited to a country where he would be persecuted. Incidentally, that is done at the international court, which is located several hundred meters from where I live.
This would and should be academic - but all you need to know is that you live in a society , which is establishing certain values as univerrsal, and you for some reason come to resist those values. In the US schools "for some reason" discuss why homosexuality occurs, and what it entails. You regard this as an "agenda" and completely misattribute causes of as well as behaviors in homosexuals.
Unless you come with arguments why homosexual behavior is objectively bad, you have absolutely no argument. You can scream all you want "you don't take kindly to the color green" but thats no argument, that's a preference. You "don't take kindly to them fags ah their connahvin plans" on grounds of taste ("immoral"). A society can't deal with taste. It would be subject to a vote, and that's that. If you want to resist the gay agenda, you'd have to prove a gay conspiracy exists, and that gayness is a choice. You can't.
So in effect what you are doing is you stopped coming with sound arguments, you retreat into your bastion and you say "I WONT HAVE ANY OF THAT". Once you do that, you are no longer a talking member of any society.
- Khannea Suntzu
June 14, 2009 3:38AM
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International law
First of all, international law is a joke. It is only supported by leftist politicians and filled with leftist laws. International law cannot be imposed on citizens of a nation that doesn't want to participate...as Bush (thankfully) did not. Of course, Obama will bend at every whim of national courts, throwing money at the U.N. and treating the United States as the U.N.'s bitch.
In any case, they aren't going to extradite people for having an anti-gay OPINION. Obama is a fascist, but civil war will happen long before he can get to the point of doing that (and I don't think it will go that far...the overal situation not associated with the gay right issue).
Everywhere you look in this country it is the leftist "lack of values" beliefs that are forced on everyone else via the courts and the schools. The leftist agenda in general and the gay agenda does nothing but destroy family values and degrade social life. The destruction of the family eventually means the destruction of society .
If you don't think a children growing up with two daddies kissing each other in front of them has a psycholgical effect on them, you are completely screwed up in your wiring. Well, you think engaging in anal sex with another man is moral, so I guess we already knew that your wiring is burned up.
There is a much higher chance of the child being gay in that kind of environment , and if that doesn't prove that it's a learned behavior then you are completely ignorant and totally ignoring reality.
By the way, scientists have not proven homosexuality to be in the genetics. You're dreaming. Scientists can conduct any study and manipulate the results to benefit whatever they are trying to prove. It's done all the time. Half of all science is junk and manipulated.
- kong99
June 14, 2009 11:51AM
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Woops, sorry
I posted two replies to this response basically repeating the same thing. I apologize. The first reply was made a while back and it wasn't visible on the screen. I forgot about it.
- kong99
June 13, 2009 2:04PM
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