The existence - or lack of - a God is one of humanity's fundamental questions. Since the first birth, the first sunrise, the first death, humans have sought to explain the world around them. The whole of human existence, in the end, comes down to this: Is there a God?
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Is There a God?
On the fence
I read plenty of texts on both sides of the coin and quite frankly, I think there are holes in both sides' arguments. The central problem all sides have addressing is about the creation of the universe. It's either God or some kind of energy mass that exploded and formed all the planets. Simply put, I believe in the power of science, but the absolute truth seems to be nobody knows how the universe came to be or how living organisms started existing. The next argument is how did we get to where we are today? One side says we are all created in God's likeness or that we evolved from apes. I nearly have to laugh at the suggestion that in God's eyes, we are perfect. Perfect with flaws, eh? Then I hate to think I evolved from an ape, but Darwin does have some strong supporting evidence in his works. I would really like for the religious groups to answer this: If God really does exist, why is there poverty and AIDS etc? That's where I call my faith into question. But I will stick with Maybe
- Sundevil
July 13, 2008 10:21PM
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to the question "if God exist where is there evil?"
Within your question you have two major assumptions that are false...
First of all, you assume that God can contradict himself, which is logically impossible.
Let me state for the record, God absolutely cannot contradict himself. If you think you see a contradiction, check your premises.
God created a world where people had freedom and free will. Hence, it follows logically that God cannot create people with absolutely free will without the possibility that people might choose evil.
Secondly, you assume humans and God share the same definition of "good."
You say that if a person is in poverty that is bad. Yes and no. It is true that they may lead an exceptionally painful existence, but God's measure of good is how many people accept him freely and enter heaven. If the only way a particular person might turn to God is through suffering, then that suffering was good. Since while the short term suffering may seem terrible, it is nothing compared to an eternity away from God.
- mkovach
September 11, 2008 11:08PM
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a reply ...
Free will cannot explain evil for a couple of reasons. Presumably good is inherently better for all than evil; humans do evil things because they are too weak or too ignorant to choose rightly; both our ignorance and our weakness are 'fixable' by God (if God exists). Having chosen to give us free will but not the wisdom or skill to use it rightly is analogous to giving a deadly object to a child, and then blaming the child for the outcome.
Free will also cannot explain the evil that befalls us due to natural events. This is a different category of evil; and is independent of human action. Blaming humans for this is irrational.
If God is all-powerful and Good, it follows logically that along with free-will he would give us the ability to use it rightly. The pervasiveness of suffering and evil show He did not; therefore (logically, again) God is either not all-powerful or not Good.
The argument that our suffering is meant to bring us to God is perverse. Again, we sin out of ignorance or weakness. God does not NEED to "lead" us to him, He could just give us the information we need to come to him. Remember: for God, no infliction of suffering on us is ever NECESSARY; for God, nothing is necessary. Therefore it is a choice. We are how we are because God (if God exists) chose to make us as we are.
- sean s
September 23, 2008 12:30PM
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"Good" and "Not-Good"
Keep in mind that "good" and "not-good" - I reject the notion of "evil" - are completely context dependent. There is no "good" or "not-good" without point of view. The suggestion that anything is "good" or "not-good" inherently outside of point of view is the same mistaken suggestion that there is meaning or purpose behind all. The fact is, the meaning of a thing is individually determined. Without point of view, there is no meaning.
Meaning and the word "meaning" are human invention.
One must and can only act from one's own point of view in specific context. The "good" can be anything. The "not-good" can be anything. You must answer why it is "good" or "not-good" and to whom - every time.
- Naumadd
October 16, 2008 9:30PM
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mkovach
29 May 2009
I like what you had to say about God. What you need to understand is that many people really do not want to know the truth because it would require them to do some soul searching of their own. It is easier to blame God for the ills of the world than to research one's soul and take a good hard look at ourselves. How could there be good w/o bad, right w/o wrong, life w/o death? Remember whenever we become full of ourselves we open the door to true evil, Satan. God wants us to love him because we want to, not because we have to, ie free will. In today's society too much importance is put on money and material things in my humble opinion.
There are people who do not consider themselves poor, although by others standards most likely would be considered poor. If you believe in God, you must also know that Satan is his rival, and will do what it takes to attempt to dehumanize humans in the eyes of other humans. God won't fall for it however many humans will and do. I believe that there are millions of tragedies in this world that could be easily laid at Satan's door. He loves to see people ponder over whether there is a God, it is his mission. We do have choices in this world, whether or not people see that have choices or not is another story. To simply do nothing is a choice, and if Satan can keep us reacting instead of acting, he has us on the fence post.
For me God does exist because when I look back over my life, and I see the many times God was there for me when no one else was. It would not have mattered if I had a lot or money or none, because I was in the hospital on machine that was breathing for me. They were pumping me full of morphine/paralytic drugs so I would remain still because I was told I was fighting the machine to breath on my own. It took me 3 months to be able to get my arms, legs, and hands to function properly. I remember walking around in Walmart for 3 hours trying to gain strengh in my legs.
The wonder of it all was I didn't remember hardly any of it, until I was told. What I remembered was praying in a safe place within myself. I saw my life and my loved ones lives and how much I loved them. I spoke with a woman whom I'm told no one ever saw in my room, yet she was with me all the time. I saw good times and sad times, and things I could have done differently in my past, and a chance to do them differently in the future. I saw violence and dispair and death whirl around me yet I was not afraid.
It is okay with me if others choose to believe God does not exist, probably wouldn't be able to change their minds no matter what I said. I could have easily died in that hospital, but God had other plans, my daughter and my grandchildren needed me to be here for them, which I am. I am with my family, and to me that is worth more than any dollar value. We are not rich, we are not poor, however that is in terms of dollars and cents, we are rich in many other ways. I hope that what I have shared with you will make you think back over your lives, wonder what you might find. Thank you for reading my missive, it is longer than I had planned it to be. Sincerely lfschrawyer
- lfschrawyer1 May 29, 2009 4:14PM
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Reply
Maybe some of the praise for your recovery should be reserved for the medical team who were there to help you through it. People generally seem to account all of the good things that happen to them as being attributable to God and discount all of the bad things. It's a ridiculous notion. It's a textbook case of specious reasoning. Why do you curry favour with God more than a child left to die in Africa. Why doesn't he step in to help them? Quite simple really. He doesn't exist.
- RedDragon
June 4, 2009 7:53AM
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And just who do you think provided that medical team with the skills to save anothers life? I have to say I feel sad for people who think as you do. Specious reasoning, ten dollars words won't convince me nor anyone else who has faith and hope by the grace of God that He does not exist. The text book you should be reading is the Bible. You speak of African children , why go so far from home, there are plenty of children in the states who have some of the same problems as those in Africa. Maybe just maybe if you read the bible , you would learn more about God and why things go the way that they do. Exactly what makes you so sure God doesn't help African children or any child for that matter. My niece spent two years of her life in Africa helping and teaching the very children you speak of. God comes in many forms through many people, I am sorry you feel the way that you do. It must be difficult to know what's out there walking around with blinders on all the time.
If you want to know why God does what He does, why don't you go to the source and ask Him?
Have a Blessed Day.......
- lfschrawyer1 June 6, 2009 2:29AM
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Another reply
Before I start, I think it's best to inform you that I had a strong Christian upbringing and education , so I am quite well versed on the Bible. The difference between you and I is that at one point I actually decided to use my brain and to be honest, I couldn't be happier!
There you go with that specious reasoning again! You might want to look up it up before responding next time. I actually feel sorry for people like you who tie their lives to a myth. That's one thing you Christians tend to overlook. The reality is that you do not need a book to tell you the difference between and right and wrong. Granted, there is a lot of value in the message that the Bible spreads (and, sadly, a lot of hatred as well.... see the Old Testament) but it doesn't make the stories any truer. You might want to consider that notion. It's quite liberating I assure you.
I think it's fantastic that your niece went to Africa to help out however you are devaluing the work that she has done and the good person that she is by implying that she is doing it because God told her to.
For the record, my home is in England. I'm sure I can find some disadvantaged children there too if I look hard enough. I fail to see what point you're trying to make though...
- RedDragon
June 9, 2009 5:35AM
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just a comment
Saying that god doesn't exist because he does not step in and counteract problems that humans have brought on themselves is an unreasonable statement. I'm not saying that the that the people that are dying in Africa deserve to die to to genocide or starvation or anything else. I am saying that since god gave man and women free will the things that befall us are the doings of man. We create starvation and war and poverty . Since god gave us free will humans choose their own path whether it is for the bettering of man or for the worsening. It is not his choices that put people in these situations but our own. Why would he step in and change thing when we have the power to change things for ourselves. We create our own world not god he just gave us the power to do so.
- ruralamerican
September 5, 2009 1:13AM
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Have you noticed
that the people that seem to blame God for everything are the ones that don't believe in him?
- mike1948
September 6, 2009 9:58PM
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blame game
It is not blaming God... it is just postulating that if a deity existed with the qualities usually associated with God then why would things happen as they do?
- MrBook
September 11, 2009 7:13PM
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Your weighing seems unbalanced
You say that on the one hand we are created in God's likeness. You point out an important problem in our definitions of good and evil, that would make a benevolent God seem very confusing, if not actually impossible. (We can also acknowledge that there are many, many concepts of God, most of which are contradictory with each other, and all of which are equally arbitrary definitions. How can we pick one and say it must be true?)
On the other hand, you say, we evolved from apes. (I'll set aside the fact that evolutionary biology actually says that apes and humans evolved from a common ancestor.) You say that there is "strong supporting evidence," but that you would just "hate to think" it was true.
Seeing you cite logical problems on one side and strong evidence on the other, I'm surprised that you opt for indifference. The fact that you aren't happy with a conclusion doesn't make it false. Maybe you just need to reflect on what it is about sharing an ancestor with apes that makes you sad. Is a world with evolution and natural selection really that much less amazing and awe-inspiring? I don't think so.
- thoughtcounts Z
October 30, 2008 8:18AM
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In defend of the existence of GOD
There are a lot of arguments about the existence of GOD. Some try to prove scientifically and logically. What we need to know is that GOD is so much much bigger (beyond our imagination) than what we can think of. We cannot limit GOD with our (limited and simple) mind. GOD creates everything, there is no way that the created being can think about the CREATOR. In a simple analogy we can put it this way, a computer programme cannot explain about the programmer unless the programmer put it in the programme he or she wrote. The same way is with our GOD, unless GOD reveals to us (humankind), there is no way we know or understand about GOD. The other thing that we need to know, we live in a different dimension from GOD. For this reason we cannot enter the other dimensions.
Talking about poverty, sickness and all the problems in this world we cannot avoid not to talk about sins. To explain about this we need to refer to the original sin (as what is written in the Bible in the book of Genesis). As we know, GOD so loves the world that HE has given HIS only begotten Son to die for humankind. From here we can see that GOD wants every single human being to be saved from "the dead" (eternal separation from GOD). When GOD walked on this earth in form of humankind like us, HE also experienced all the sufferings known to this world. So, HE perfectly knows about this. Another thing we need to know is that life is more than "walking" on this planet (which is only a very small fraction of the "real" life - in the life after).
After all if we really want to know about GOD, we simply need to ask GOD to reveal HIMSELF to us so that we can understand what is beyond our (limited and simple) mind.
By the way, if you are interested in knowing about this futher, based on my experience, there is an excellent book that explain clearly. The name of the book is "The Progress of Redemption: The Story of Salvation from Creation to the New Jerusalem" by Willem Vangemeren (you can look at the internet).
Finally, what I can say, if we really ask and humble ourselves, GOD will definitely reveal HIMSELF to us in HIS own way.
- speedy1485
January 23, 2009 1:56AM
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Explanations of God
I suspect there is a "God" or a first cause we have named God. However, human explanations that come in dogmatic presentations from organized religions can never be proven nor dis proven. As the above article states, "GOD creates everything, there is no way that the created being can think about the CREATOR." Yet we have a Bible, a Koran, and countless others all claiming to be the revealed word of God....can they all be correct? When humans do find out which explanation is the real and true one let us all hope it is similar to the Janis explanation, since they seem to have the more benevolent view of this entity we have named God.
- wanderer
May 27, 2009 3:30PM
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Hmmm....
How convenient it is that God is so complex that we will never be able to apply rational human logic to fully comprehend him. That's a completely ridiculous notion! If we took that approach to science we would still be roaming around in loincloths. Great idea! Let's all intelligent thought aside and submit ourselves to God's almighty plan.
- RedDragon
June 4, 2009 8:05AM
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speedy1485
"There are a lot of arguments about the existence of GOD. Some try to prove scientifically and logically. What we need to know is that GOD is so much much bigger (beyond our imagination) than what we can think of. We cannot limit GOD with our (limited and simple) mind."
In other words, God exists no matter how nonsensical the idea is to our minds and no matter the amount of evidence to the contrary that our minds can perceive....
- passerby October 7, 2009 12:24PM
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God created us above the angels and wanted us to have free will.
If the world were perfect, we would all be robots without the choices to do good or evil. That is not love, that is slavery. This is not what God wanted for us.
God created us and knows our nature, therefore at creation he knew that we would have to sacrifice his son on the cross for our sins, in order to perfect his creation in heaven. He also knew that we would suffer for the sins of our fathers and our fellow souls.
We can not see the entirity of our existence, for example when my nephew was killed in Iraq, it was an incredible sadness, but now four years later we appreciate the fullness of his life and the splendidness of his sacrifice. He gave up his earthly life to save others in his battalion. Yet these two things existed together at the same instant, though at his death we did not see his ,and the effect of his life on others for years to come.
A really good book to read on this subject is called "The Shack."
- SuperDelegate
February 22, 2009 10:09PM
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Free will?
I'm really struggling to reconcile the notion of "free will" with the idea that God has a divine plan for us. As far as I can see, only one of them can be right. Which is it?
- RedDragon
June 4, 2009 8:10AM
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They say that what doesn't kill us makes us who we are
I'm with you on the maybe. You can't prove or disprove the existence of God. If there is a God, then only he can do that.
But if I were God, and I made the world, I would have created AIDS and poverty, etc. Because humans aren't good at appreciating what they have unless it's taken away from them. At the very least, they are unable to comprehend what it is they have unless they have something to compare it to. Humans in general don't define themselves by what they are as much as they define themselves by what they aren't. We also define ourselves more by what we don't have than what we do.
Think for a moment on what makes life meaningful. What makes us want to live our lives instead of sleeping it away? Death. What makes us grateful for our health ? Disease.
I believe that without death, disease, and trials, not only would we never learn anything, we would be unhappy. You've heard that adversity will make you strong? I think adversity just makes you you.
- Cheerikiara
May 15, 2009 3:36PM
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They say that death brings meaning of life
Human being just want strong reason for everything.
Why I stumbled over that rock? Bad karma, God punished you (or you were too inattentive).
Why You got sick? You did not wash your hands day before.
Why it rains today? Cyclons and atmosphere levels did that.
Why Universe expands? Big bang happend very long time ago.
Why this particle appears in so many places at once? Erm.. wait, we still sorting it out.
Yes indeed, we do search for meaning all the time. But in most cases it is not needed for everyday life.
You'll find meaning eventually when You'll be very passionate about something and/or when you will have strong relationships with someone (friends, family, even with your cat or dog).
They say that death brings meaning of life. Not realy. Death might play some role in valuation. But meaning comes from passions and desires not from cheating death (unless it is not your very special passion).
- ctrnz
July 1, 2009 12:28PM
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Ahh The Problem of Pain
If you really are searching for some answers to this question then I can provide great books that break down the philosophical side of free will. One of the most well known on this issue is C.S. Lewis, "The problem of pain." He also wrote mere "Christianity" and "Miracles." You are right in saying that there is no absolute proof of how life came about. However keep in mind, "Science doesn't provide us with truth. The practice of scientific investigation involves tools that help us explain how the physical world might work. The explanation doesn't have to be true to be useful, just consistent with most of the evidence." (Spencer). The evidence when studied just facts points towards a designer. Chance is ruled out through mathematical probability. For more on this read Robert Collins, Jay W. Richards, or Guillermo Gonzalez. For scientific evidence in molecular biology read Michael Behe, and Johnathan Wells. I would encourage reading opposing view from evolution scientist such a Ruse. It is good to know why you choose you evidences.
The energy mass you speak of is called the singularity. Both sciences believe in the "big bang" It is a measurable event. The argument is evolution believes that nothing came from nothing to create something over billions of years. There can be no infinity. "Everything that begins the exist has a cause, The earth began to exist, therefore it has a cause." If you heard a bang in the next room and asked me what was that and i said nothing, you would not except that. The bang has a cause. The idea that something comes into existence un-caused is absurd. Thank you for your time
- rekiser
September 6, 2009 9:38PM
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providing truth
Ahh The Problem of Pain
“However keep in mind, "Science doesn't provide us with truth. The practice of scientific investigation involves tools that help us explain how the physical world might work. The explanation doesn't have to be true to be useful, just consistent with most of the evidence." (Spencer).”
Yet religion does not provide us with the truth either…
“The evidence when studied just facts points towards a designer.”
Actually no, there has been no demonstrated evidence that even suggests a designer.
“Chance is ruled out through mathematical probability.”
Blind chance, yes… but Evolution is not about blind chance. Evolution is the process by which life forms change from generation, with those changes that benefit reproduction having a greater chance of being passed down to successive generations.
“For more on this read Robert Collins, Jay W. Richards, or Guillermo Gonzalez. For scientific evidence in molecular biology read Michael Behe, and Johnathan Wells. I would encourage reading opposing view from evolution scientist such a Ruse. It is good to know why you choose you evidences. “
To which I’d add Richard Dawkins, Ken Miller, Sean Carroll, and Stephen Gould.
“The argument is evolution believes that nothing came from nothing to create something over billions of years.”
That is not quite accurate… everything came from the original singularity, including space-time.
“The bang has a cause.”
Yes, and that is currently an area of much Scientific investigation.
“The idea that something comes into existence un-caused is absurd.”
Very true… so what caused the designer?
- MrBook
September 11, 2009 4:50PM
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