Drug-Friendly Netherlands to Close 8 Prisons -- Not Enough Crime

(News) Drug-Friendly Netherlands to Close 8 Prisons -- Not Enough Crime

By Marijuana Policy Project

You are seeing 8 Comments. See all 28 Comments on this News.
  • One More Queer
    No More Politicians with Law Degrees?

    I don't believe you've fully examined the implications of this statement, because if you had you would realize that it is inane.
    Even if we lived in such a world, lawyers would still be chiefly responsible for enforcing the laws, and still fill most judicial benches.
    Having a law degree does not determine a person's character, ethical system, foresight, compassion, or even their profession. Indeed, all it means is that they have completed law school at an accredited institution; which says only that they have some grasp on the theory, and practice of law.There are many decent, clearheaded, honest, and capable individuals that could genuinely improve the lives of the people through effective and comprehensive legal reform, that also happen to have law degrees.
    I do not mean that there aren't bad lawyers, and I would even go so far as to say that there are problems with legal education at some institutions which is evidenced by the sort of JDs they produce. Many of this sort are also politicians.
    As for "common sense genes," I advise you to evolve some "phenotypes" for the benefit of future generations: critical thinking and prudence. Making sweeping categorical generalizations about large groups of people demonstrates poor intellectual rigor, because these generalizations are inevitably imprecise.
    Therefore, I purpose that we deny public office instead to individuals incapable of critical thinking and prudence, and those who believe inevitably imprecise, sweeping generalizations about large groups of people .

    - One More QueerUS May 28, 2009 3:58AM

    Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

    Thank You for your Comment

    We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

    • EhLm
      Common Sense dictates that your Answer isn't the Answer

      Well just to defend Genetics' statement a bit I'm relatively certain that he didn't want to put a ban on all politicians with law degrees, what he wanted, stated simply, is a rebirth of common sense in America.
      We here in America have been faced with the unique problem of having zero foresight with a ridiculous stubborn mindset that comes with a fear of change. When the law passed that made Marijuana illegal I'm sure the lawmakers that passed the bill didn't foresee the billions we spend on the war on drugs , or the lives lost, or the rampant crime rate that would come from it. Common sense would dictate that if all of these things would happen by passing the law, that you wouldn't to do that. The problem is though, at the time the general American public was scared of the effects of the drug through a smear campaign by William Randolf Hearst, a man who stood to gain much by the passing of the bill. And now that same fear drives us to keep the drug illegal, even though we know now that none of those terrible effects exist.
      Common Sense would dictate that if we have found something now that can help with sickness, generate tax revenue, free tax dollars that can combat real problems that America faces (poverty, violent crime, etc....) we should use it. The problem is that once again our common sense has been blinded through a series of misinformation campaigns that evoke fear in us. This problem doesn't lie with our lawmakers and heads of state , but instead within us all. To create real change we all have to realize that our common sense is stronger than our fear and that logically it makes more sense for it to be legal than illegal.
      Also in defense of Genetics, there is no reason to attack his statement. It's his opinion and honestly probably one written out of anger at the situation. Who wouldn't be angry when the country that one adores, especially one that values the individual and personal freedom, is moving in the opposite direction of one's own idea of perfection?
      It doesn't show a lack of intellectual rigor, but instead a passion that should reside within all people. In addition to this, what makes him wrong? Of course there is always an exception to every general statement made, and that is one that that will never change. It has always been a person with a law degree that has had their hand in the poor decisions that this country has made and that is the point that he was trying to get across. A point which was missed entirely by you because you just wanted to point out the mistake he made in making a sweeping generalization.

      - EhLmUS May 28, 2009 9:44AM

      Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

      Thank You for your Comment

      We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

      • One More Queer
        Indeed, it was not, but I do not think there is one answer.

        In re-reading my response, it was unnecessarily vituperative, but that is because I also feel passionately that you have both already identified an explanatory variable with a much clearer correlation than law degrees; this lack of critical thinking and common sense and foresight in government and the nation at large. On this point I think we are entirely agreed; common sense is critical for everyone.
        I don't think I "missed the point" about those with law degrees having a hand in poor decisions made by our government. I may, however, have failed to communicate that while there is a clear correlation, there are confounding variables which I feel makes the exceptions to this rule significant. For example, one could note also that white people, the wealthy, people who identify as heterosexual, and Christians have all had the majority vote in every legislative decision this country has ever made. I'm not suggesting that one of these (or even all of these) explain legislative decisions that undermine personal liberty and the public interest.
        That is my point, and that is where I feel Genetics was wrong; a simple explanation (like law degrees) does not accurately explain this complex political phenomenon. Moreover, I feel unexamined sweeping generalizations demonstrate a similar fallaciousness to the unsound reasons provided for drug laws . Post hoc, ergo propter hoc and slippery slope statements used to justify drug laws, and those used to explain why we created such laws, are birds of a feather. It bears repeating, critical analysis, foresight, and common sense are much clearer explanatory variables.
        I think passion is beautiful and important, but if it leads us to logical fallacies, it no longer serves us in the struggle to uplift humanity.

        - One More QueerUS May 30, 2009 1:58PM

        Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

        Thank You for your Comment

        We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

        • EhLm
          I think were going to have to agree to disagree

          I appreciate the time you took to actually rebuttal and clarify your previous comment. I can now see where you are coming from with a much greater sense of clarity. I'll apologize for not looking deeper into your original comment and seeing that you were just simply pointing out that there are more factors involved here than just the law degree and that this one aspect of the lawmaker is actually, in fact, only one of the many that can lead to the undermining of our personal freedoms. On this fact you are correct, I do agree with the up most vigor.
          What I do not think we can agree on, however, is the role of passion within the confines of a democracy . Even if a comment made by a fiery individual is full of logical fallacy, and even if the comment made is offensive, wrong, or just a down right lie, it stands to reason that comment was at least made with the up most good intent or at the very least to somehow create the vision of America that the individual who made the comment foresees as ideal. That comment doesn't necessarily degrade anything within the confines of the law and in the realm of personal liberty, actually stands to verify the fact that we are a nation of varied peoples, ideologies, and ideas of perfection. By this series of logic I mean something along the lines of Voltaire when he said something along the lines of "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
          I hope that clarifies what I meant through my previous comment, but if it doesn't I understand, I'm having trouble at the moment putting exactly what I meant into words.

          Furthering my position on passion, Passion is one aspect of humanity within which we don't have to be logical and through this illogical process we uplift ourselves to a place much higher than we ever could with logic and reasoning. For example, lets examine the circumstances under which America was founded. It was very illogical of us to take on the most powerful empire in the world at the time, and it was illogical for us to throw down our lives for the principles of freedom (and it still is), but what happened? Debatably, We created possibly the greatest empire that the world has ever known. All of this was made possible by the passions of a group of men whom we now hail as heroes and standards of greatness.
          My point is that without a respect for passion and the illogical fervor it allows, there is no reason to even bother trying to make a sound logical decision. This is because, at least from my point of view, people don't work that way. We are emotional beings, throwing ourselves to the fire because that is what we believe to be right. In a perfect world, logic and reasoning would be the defining factors that all people adhere to, but in reality, this is not a perfect world, and the people who live within this world are not creatures of logic and reasoning, but instead fiery passion. If we can harness this fact, we can forcibly apply logic to our passions and force ourselves closer and closer to that set of perfect logical ideals that should govern all men.

          - EhLmUS May 30, 2009 2:52PM

          Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

          Thank You for your Comment

          We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

          • One More Queer
            Counterpoints, in the order their respective points appear

            1. How can one presume good intent when someone is being illogical, and how is good intent meaningful if a person's motivation is not internally consistent?
            2. If one's ideals are not internally consistent, I do not see how moving America, or anything toward realizing them could be possible, let alone beneficial.
            3. A diversity of ideas is necessary for the intellectual health of any society . However, ideologies that are not internally consistent, that is, those whose conclusions do not follow from their premises, do not serve this function; instead, they confound productive debate with meaningless assertions.
            4. I was not arguing that he was not free to spout inanities, just that he should not if he expects to communicate his position effectively.
            5. I do not agree with your characterization of the American revolution as illogical. While certainly the average militia man might not have reasoned the chances of American success, the ideological foundation of the movement toward independence was formed through reasoned debate and the rational extension of the Enlightenment's ideas of liberty and the social contract. The merchant class was convinced of the validity of America's independence through argument, not passionate inanities. Also, the revolution was a result of many forces acting on a heterogeneous population, and passion, with out carefully constructed reasoning, could not be communicated well enough to move even most of them.
            6. I believe that you have it backwards; people become passionate because of what they reason to be right and not the other way around. I can't claim that I can characterize simply "the way people work," but I know that people become passionate for a reason, and while it might seem irrational to an outside observer; reason means only that the conclusions follow from the premises, not that something is objectively true.
            7. We are creatures of passion and reason. The two are not opposed, and are in fact mutually interdependent.

            - One More QueerUS May 31, 2009 3:18PM

            Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

            Thank You for your Comment

            We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

          • Clay
            No more lawyers making laws

            When you put the wolves in charge of the hen house,you lose chickens.
            When lawyers make laws,they are the only ones that understand them,and can find the loopholes too break them,and their fellow
            lawyers get to make money defending them or fighting them.
            It's a win,win situation for them. If no one else makes money from a law ,lawyers will.
            We do need lawyers too advise and assist elected persons as too the wording and form of the law ,we just don't need them thinking them up.
            And as for generalizations,everyone does it,and will continue to do it,right or wrong. So don't be offended by someone beleiving generalizations,after all,only potheads whose brain is fried like an egg visit these drug law sites.

            - ClayUS May 31, 2009 9:11PM

            Reply to this Recommend (1) Icon flag

            Thank You for your Comment

            We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.

            • One More Queer
              Pot Heads

              Believe it or not, its possible to use reason and smoke marijuana . For example, I'm stoned off my ass right now, but I know that "everyone does it,and will continue to do it,right or wrong" is an ad populum argument, and does not hold water. "Other people do it" is neither a reason, nor a defense, nor a justification.
              If, hypothetically, everyone condoned torture , would I be off-base for being offended by their callousness? The fallacy is blatant, even to stoners. I will continue to find your irrationality irksome, counterproductive, and insidious, regardless of the degree of my inebriation.

              - One More QueerUS June 4, 2009 3:27PM

              Reply to this Recommend (0) Icon flag

              Thank You for your Comment

              We review all comments before they're posted. For more on our comment policy, please see our FAQ.