(Opinion) Nicaragua Shows What Could Be if Abortion Outlawed in US

By Amnesty International

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Regarding Comment
Fried by the sun?
  • JBarnett
    I too stand by my statement

    "whimsically aborted" is a personal opinion Solar, not a fact. I find it highly unlikely that you've done the research to verify that 1.2 million abortions per year are performed "on a whimsy". Abortion is a complex issue, I may not like it, but I will always support the individual's right to make that choice for themselves (I'm not living their life or circumstances..it's not my place to decide, nor is it yours).

    - JBarnettUS July 29, 2009 9:11PM

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    • SolarSanitizer
      Ok, if one word is blocking your vision...

      ...Perhaps I could use another. How about unneccessary. Or elective, or conveinent. Perhaps discretionary, or optional, or selective. Maybe you'd prefer to see these other words so you could then see the message in the sentence.

      Talk about missing the forest because of the trees, but I digress.

      You are correct on one point, though. I cannot compile these numbers as a private citizen. It takes scholarly research to determine such statistics. If proof ot that will keep you from "poisoning my well" on this matter, I give you the following:

      http://www.mnstate.edu/gracyk/courses/phil %20115/Stats_on_abortion.htm

      Now, care to discuss this, or are you still stuck on a word?

      - SolarSanitizerUS July 29, 2009 9:21PM

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      • MrBook
        acceptable

        So it is acceptable to you for a girl to have to bring her own brother to term?

        That is one stack of numbers by the way... with no indication of the methodology used, so it's hardly a valid source

        - MrBookUS July 29, 2009 9:33PM

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        • SolarSanitizer
          No, I'm not a savage.

          Rape, incest, and bona-fide risk are reasonable scenarios for abortion . They are serious issues, and not given to whimsy.

          Alternatively, if the partner isn't wanting children , interference with career, interference with social life, wanting to keep one's figure, ect. are reasons for abortion which are birth-control, and elective in nature. I don't agree with abortion as birth-control. As a single parent who struggles with a special-needs child, I think I have a leg to stand on.


          As for the numbers...The were compiled by the Guttmacher Institute, which is a leading authority on abortion in America and abroad. They have a website.

          - SolarSanitizerUS July 29, 2009 11:39PM

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          • MrBook
            education

            "I don't agree with abortion as birth-control."

            How are you going to differentiate between abortion as birth-control, and abortion because the woman cannot care for the child or it is a result of sexual abuse?

            "As a single parent who struggles with a special-needs child, I think I have a leg to stand on."

            That was your choice, but who are you to force that choice on others?

            "As for the numbers...The were compiled by the Guttmacher Institute, which is a leading authority on abortion in America and abroad. They have a website."

            Then link to their statistics and methodology.

            - MrBookUS July 30, 2009 5:53AM

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            • SolarSanitizer
              Can I point something out?

              You started this line with an accusatory question about incest in reply to my statement against elective abortion .

              At the sime time, I cited independent research backing up a previous claim.

              That was not good enough. You wanted methodology. This is a classical logical fallacy called "raising the bar". Request denied, MrBook. I gave you good info, and cited the source of it: Guttmacher Institute. Do your own research if you want to disprove my source. I'll not do it for you. Google it.

              Now, I'll answer your slightly hostile questions.

              Q: "How are you going to differentiate between abortion as birth-control, and abortion because the woman cannot care for the child or it is a result of sexual abuse?"

              A: I'm not. I am not their Doctor. I'll vote against such barbarism at every oppertunity and encourage my friends to do the same.


              Q: That was your choice, but who are you to force that choice on others?

              A: A human American with voting rights and a love for innocent life.


              I am entitled to my opinion, MrBook. If you choose to forsake helpless human life that is between you and your conscience. Seems like a large price to pay to stay politically correct.

              Parting thought:
              "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
              ~Edmund Burke

              - SolarSanitizerUS July 30, 2009 7:36AM

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              • MrBook
                Raising the bar

                "At the sime time, I cited independent research backing up a previous claim.

                That was not good enough. You wanted methodology. This is a classical logical fallacy called "raising the bar". Request denied, MrBook. I gave you good info, and cited the source of it: Guttmacher Institute. Do your own research if you want to disprove my source. I'll not do it for you. Google it."

                Statistics without some semblance of methodology is quite useless... the site you linked to was not to the original study, it was to a paraphrasing of it on some college website... and as such I question it's accuracy.

                "Q: "How are you going to differentiate between abortion as birth-control, and abortion because the woman cannot care for the child or it is a result of sexual abuse?"

                A: I'm not. I am not their Doctor. I'll vote against such barbarism at every oppertunity and encourage my friends to do the same."

                So you accept that in some circumstances an abortion is allowable... legally speaking how is that determination to be made? How is a doctor to tell the difference between a woman seeking an abortion because she 'doesn't want to lose her figure' and a woman who is seeking one because she was raped?


                "Q: That was your choice, but who are you to force that choice on others?

                A: A human American with voting rights and a love for innocent life."

                All well and good... but how are you going to allow people can have abortions to get them, while denying 'whimsical' requests?

                "I am entitled to my opinion, MrBook. If you choose to forsake helpless human life that is between you and your conscience. Seems like a large price to pay to stay politically correct."

                Hardly... the topic of abortion is one that I have struggled a great deal with over the years, and I agree with you in that getting an abortion for frivolous reasons is immoral... but I cannot deny a woman who is in need just to assuage my conscious.

                - MrBookUS July 30, 2009 6:07PM

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          • JBarnett
            Ok, now we're closer to common ground

            I don't like the idea that any woman would use abortion as birth-control; especially in any "westernized" society (there are so many alternatives). I also know that with any "liberty", there will be a minority of the population that will abuse it due to any number of factors (lack of education , lack of adequate health care /resources, laziness).
            Unfortunately, many countries are not socially evolved or secular in their attitudes towards the rights of women/girls and their own sexuality and self determination. All you have to do is look at any male dominated culture in the world to see the horrific reality, ei: honor killings, female genital mutilation, rape as a weapon, acid attacks on women/girls in all Islamic countries, the forced isolation of women/girls from society and being considered the property of the male relative in all Islamic societies, etc.

            In a perfect world, abortion would be an option of last resort. Unfortunately, this isn't a perfect world, so I would rather that abortion stay legal , safe and available to the women who make what must be one of the most difficult decisions of one's life.

            - JBarnettUS July 30, 2009 7:40PM

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          • JBarnett
            Oh, and one more thought

            "The rate of maternal deaths in Nicaragua has increased: Official figures show that 33 girls and women have died in pregnancy or childbirth so far this year, up from 20 in the same period a year ago"

            This article was on the fact that women/girls in Nicaragua are DYING in pregnancy and/or childbirth because abortion is now illegal in that country. The 33 that have died, "so far this year", died because the couldn't get an abortion to save their lives, not to retain their figures.......

            - JBarnettUS July 30, 2009 7:55PM

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            • SolarSanitizer
              Well, death is death.

              If you have 33 people dying every year due to practice A and 1,300,000 people dying every year due to practice B, which should recieve the most amount of attention?

              According to the article, it would be the 33.

              According to me, it is the 1,300,000.

              - SolarSanitizerUS July 31, 2009 1:41AM

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      • Submariner
        Dead link

        No stats found.

        - Submariner July 29, 2009 10:31PM

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        • SolarSanitizer
          There is a space between,

          "phil" and "&". Ya gotta paste it in your url bar and remove the space.

          I don't know why it did that.

          - SolarSanitizerUS July 29, 2009 11:33PM

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          • Submariner
            hmm

            I still can't get it to work. Is it from this Guttmacher Institute?

            - Submariner July 30, 2009 1:29AM

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            • SolarSanitizer
              I see...

              The info was compiled from their 2004 study, yes.

              - SolarSanitizerUS July 30, 2009 1:36AM

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