Not Even Soldiers are Safe from Gun Violence in U.S.

(Opinion) Not Even Soldiers are Safe from Gun Violence in U.S.

By Freedom States Alliance

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Where Were the MP's?
  • LagerHead
    Have you never called 911?

    Ft. Hood has some kind of mix of civilian and military law enforcement. And there is not a one-to-one ratio of police to personnel, so it's not like there are armed guards for everyone.

    In addition, the guy shot 44 people. Even with a reload, that can be accomplished in a relatively populated or crowded area in about a minute, maybe slightly more. But definitely under 2 minutes. The only place you'll get the police to respond in under 2 minutes is the front desk of the police station. Outside of that, the police - in about 99% of cases - are going to be interviewing witnesses and taking reports.

    - LagerHeadUS November 6, 2009 2:59PM

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    • Submariner
      FYI

      Nearly every military base there is has civilian police and security as part of regular force protection.

      If they did not, being off deployment would be as much a burden (though usually safer) than being on deployment, and the military would need to be twice the size (which would create need for a larger police force, et cetera ad absurdem).

      Although I agree that it's futile to fight fire with fire when it comes to firearm proliferation, I want to say that military bases are absolutely not a good place for open carry or even remote access to personal firearms .

      - Submariner November 8, 2009 3:04AM

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      • LagerHead
        Not sure I understand this statement:

        "I want to say that military bases are absolutely not a good place for open carry or even remote access to personal firearms ."

        Why exactly are our military bases - home and working place to the people with the bets and most firearms training - not good places for people to be allowed to carry their personal firearms?

        - LagerHeadUS November 9, 2009 8:31AM

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        • Submariner
          Clarification

          The military maintains very discipline possession, control and maintenance requirements for all firearms . Turnover for a shotgun and a pistol is a scripted 3 person affair with checklists, special equipment, and 10 minutes of timing done precisesly, for example.

          Having the same people handling and carrying another set of weapons without this level of control would be unduely hazardous (and it is hazardous, as any years mishap report summary will indicate). Chain of possession would be confused, unrated/uncertified weapons or ammo could corrupt armories. There's lots of technical reasons.

          More seriously, most of the military are young people from diverse backgrounds with a lot of pressure on them. Even in ideal situations the anonymous but dense nature of military society can quickly lead to duress and stressful altercations that would be carelessly aggravated by the presence of firearms. The fact is, situations are hardly ideal; a lot of members are very young and come from troubled backgrounds. The structure and discipline of the military can develop such people into good citizens as well as good warriors, but they do not start that way. Even with strict rules there has been a lot of conduct problems at major training bases, very large commands (such as Aircraft Carriers) and overseas.

          Plus a lot of military bases have especially hazardous materials, family housing , school and services, or prisoners. It just does not make sense to have lesser controls on guns at these places.

          The problems with firearm proliferation, whatever they may actually be, are in these situations exacerbated.

          - Submariner November 9, 2009 9:38PM

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          • LagerHead
            Not much different from civilian life.

            I have served in the military as well, so I understand very well the diversity, the stresses, etc. I'm still confused by your argument though. If it is OK for a soldier to carry his firearm at the store across the street from the main gate of his base, how does he become more dangerous or unstable just by entering the base? Unless of course what you really mean is nobody should have the right to carry.

            - LagerHeadUS November 10, 2009 8:46AM

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            • Submariner
              Very different

              All that and you just want to talk people issues?

              Let's say its ok to gloss over the socio-psychological complexities of walking from normal life onto a military base.

              As a middle management guy on such a base, I still have no interest in dealing with people with guns when I can hardly keep them from killing themselves with motorcylces, or drinking, or what have you.

              And I think the rest still holds. You don't have concentrations munitions, jet fuel, RADCON and other hazardous materials sitting around like you do on base. The professional requirements would be turned on their head if everyone also might have their pet .45 in the pants belt. The anonymity would become a source of anxiety and distrust.

              It's an unnecessary risk. And we're big on risk management in these parts.

              - Submariner November 10, 2009 6:18PM

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              • LagerHead
                Risk management is important.

                For example, if there were 38 armed people standing around when Hasan started shooting , I'd say the risk of him killing 13 would have been significantly decreased. And if schools weren't free fire zones, I'd say the risk of multiple massacres there would be significantly decreased.

                The thing is, around all those hazardous and flammable materials, many of which exist outside of military bases by the way, the guns aren't just going to jump out and start shooting up the place. And if they're not doing it off base, what exactly happens to these inanimate objects when they enter the base? In all the years I spent on them, I never noticed anything. And if it's not the guns but the people, again I ask, what makes them more likely to do anything outrageous just because they're on base?

                - LagerHeadUS November 11, 2009 8:17AM

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