In a 2007 interview with beliefnet.com, John McCain stated that “the Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation.” While some were encouraged by McCain's words, others took great offense, reigniting a passionate debate about the intentions of America’s founders. Was the U.S. built on Christian principles, or are we a purely secular nation?
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Is the U.S. a Christian Nation?
a simple test
There is a simple way to show that our laws are not based on Christian doctrine. The core of Christian doctrine are the ten commandments. Not only are many of them NOT codified american law, the exact opposite is law.
Example:
"you shall have no other gods before me."
This is a commandment and the exact opposite is codified into the foundation document of our nation; The Constitution.
- reckoner
September 24, 2008 10:21AM
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simple test
CHRISTIANITY: is NOT based on the ten commandments ..It is based on the fullfillment of the ten commandments.LIFE= SATISFACTION ,DEATH=SATISFACTION, Burial & RESURECTION=NEW SATITISFACTION & RELATIONSHIP ...YOUR, TEST-premis, is wrong ..THIS nation was founded under the interpritation of (new testament) teaching & belief...THE principles & ideals incorperated; that were deemed by those founders as being more than adequite for human life and the propogation of life, are & were,the best man could do for himself so to speak ..To adjucate another form of GOV'T ,would circumvent the basis for human existance; which is agreed to be: LIFE LIBERTY & ONE'S OWN PERSUTE OF HAPPINESS,(an individual interpritation),outside of the rule of common law &would bring into question the very existance & formation of these United States of AMERICA...A Country that promotes no one's ideal or preferences over another's...FREEDOM...THIS country has these principles that align with human nature in itself ../There is no GOV't in human history that employes this type of foundation, for ALL men & PEOPLES to exist tgether in harmony...When left to function as INTENDED...SO; THIS Country was founded on principles & precepts that are known by any intelligent person to be in the best interests of ALL who are citizens of this GOV'T..END of STORY NOBODY says
- nobody October 1, 2008 8:12AM
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A Little Late, But...
You got it just as wrong as the first guy.
Christianity is not about the Ten Commandments or fulfilling them. It's about the belief that some guy who said he was the son of a deity died on a cross, after leading a perfect life as a human, to symbolically take our sins away as long as we believe in him and try to lead a life as close to his perfection. That's what Christians believe. There are subtle (and sometimes extreme) differences across the many denominations but that's the basic premise.
The UNITED STATES OF AMERICA was not founded with Christian views in mind. That assumption is a Nationalist one which often confuses the Bible with the Bill of Rights. It's not as well-known as it should be that our early Patriots and Inventors were more Scientists and Scholars than they were Religious. The Constitution was written with full knowledge of what happens when you let " religion " guide a government...
Therefore we were guaranteed our freedom to speak, freedom to worship, and freedom to ensure those freedoms with armaments if need be. The model the U.S. was founded on is definitely not Christian. If that were the case then it would be a rather biased country, wouldn't it? If it's a Christian Nation then wouldn't that require everyone to accept the National Religion? It removes the premise of freedom and equality, bringing personal beliefs and illogical opinions into the ways we interact with other Nations and each other in any kind of official capacity.
If you disagree with WAR, you should only explain your vote based on logic. If you agree with WAR, you should only explain your vote based on logic. Using "God says..." is just about as relevant to any argument as "Superman would..." since neither of them are there to take the ACTION for us.
Since we're the only ones here, the only ones affected, shouldn't we take in all possible data and base our decisions on the logical approach rather than what some Jew or Greek wrote a couple thousand years ago? The Constitution is far more relevant because it was created with logic, fresh in the founding fathers' minds, having just fought a war over taxes and oppression from an Empire which felt it too had a Divine Right.
- m46607
September 4, 2009 6:01PM
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knowing facts about true Christ followers
True followers do not impose or force their will on others but still maintained the truths revealed to them..Check out , the fruits of the Spirit ..Christendom is not always setting the example of following Christ's example, because we still live in the flesh.The founders used agreed upon rules that work taken from the Bible ..They were gracious enough to let freedom of religion to the individual which is what Christ examples.
- nobody September 4, 2009 8:16PM
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False!
According to Christianity's teachings, it cannot co-exist with another religion . The goal of all Christians should be to convert the non-believers into believers. Conversion is the goal, so that Heaven might be filled with more souls and so that the physical world might have more "Christ-like warriors" to defend god against heathens and mortals against their innate, sin-filled nature.
If you do your research on the Founding Fathers you may be surprised to discover that they did not pluck the "rules" from the Bible. That's you projecting your beliefs on to the Constitution. You're not the only one who does it.
- m46607
September 6, 2009 12:51PM
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Christ.
Everyone must believe in Christ. But Christ and Jesus aren't the same thing. In the beginning was the word and the word was Christ. In one form or another all religions believe in Christ.
- mike1948
September 6, 2009 10:53PM
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Really
I don't even want to respond to such lunicy but here goes..
Since your replys definatly imply you are NOT as Christ said , " Born again ", You have No clue what it means to be of the same conviction as Christ..When you speak of such a thing, which you obviously are not, you cannot begin to translate those things you are not personally familiar with ..So don't try to tell me, unless you are truely "born again" as Christ taught.
Christ NEVER taught conformation, head knowledge or cohersion or any other form of Spirituality other than TRANSFORMATION ..
This can only come by God's acting upon a persons will, after that person has given their permission for God to act upon the will.
- nobody September 7, 2009 12:27PM
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we are the only ones here
You take God like liberties when you confer that we are here alone on the planet..Only a god could know this ..Just because You as a human only see what is physical does not mean things unphysical do not affect you...What is a thought or an idea but unseen.. A belief is unseen , but the effects can be devistating. Your, No God belief system, may not be up to power with another being which claims to be GOD. Only GOD can claim HE exists or doesn't exist.This is only, good reasoning.Accepting GOD into your belief system is up to the individual ..If you do not accept God into your system of conciousness, that goes with you.
- nobody September 5, 2009 10:36AM
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Yes. We Are The Only Ones Here.
All humans have the potential to be god -like. We have the power to create ideas, spreading them like wildfire. Religion is an example of our god-like ability. Decisions are waged through things written by men whenever someone follows a Theocracy. If Iran believes that it has a divine right and Israel believes it has a divine right, both of them in-line with their own deities, then who is right? Who has the correct deity? Yours is true, so that automatically makes the other false?
What evidence can you bring forth from your unmeasurable realm to back up your claims? Without evidence to methodically examine how can you claim some truth that I do not have? Why do you let that rule your life?
How are the effects devastating when your concerns aren't even placed in the physical world? Christians consider the physical world to be the means to an end. Beyond the physical world they believe there is something more and that they will exist beyond their mortal coils. That type of thinking is irresponsible; you are basing your entire life on a hope or theory that has nothing to do with your day to day life except that you make it a part of your daily life.
It just surprises me that people can be logical thinkers when it comes to paying their taxes , reviewing the Nutrition Facts on the panel of their cereal box, and vote on critical issues while simultaneously praying to an invisible man in the clouds. If you believe in a god and follow your dogma then why should any of the responsibilities of your mortal life matter? Because there's a small amount of doubt that you won't admit. It's covered by denial.
Well, the topic's "Is the U.S. a Christian Nation?" and the answer to this is "No, it is not." At least that's my stance, that it should not be a Christian Nation. It should not be a Muslim Nation. It should not be a Jewish Nation. It should be a nation of people who make decisions based on the physical factors, not theories. YOUR religious beliefs should not decide how I conduct MY life. Just as my personal beliefs should not affect yours.
People are quick to quote the Constitution, believing that it is integrated - going hand-in-hand - with the Bible. By far the most tooth-gnashing example of this is "The second amendment is Our god-given right!" Because YOUR *loving* god wants you to have guns ? That's precisely what Jesus would not want. You'll probably say god is vengeful too. God is loving and vengeful? How does that even work? Oh, his understanding is beyond mine? Well then stop using human words to describe an inhuman concept. To me you are just as well off explaining Zen Buddhism.
The Constitution, however, exists to guarantee that no religion is put before others and that we all maintain freedom of expression and belief. Look at the voting record on my profile. (: I believe that prayer should not be banned from public schools and that religious symbols should not be banned from public viewing.
People should be able to express themselves, though nobody should be forced to adhere to another belief. The Constitution gives you an inalienable right to believe in who or what you want, even if it's Aquaman. I also have the right to peacefully decline and offer my beliefs.
The fact that Christianity's mere premise undermines peaceful co-existence with other religions is irrelevant I suppose. Incidentally, that is a topic for a different thread.
- m46607
September 6, 2009 12:43PM
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Basing life on hope on a theory
No by "personal experience" ..I was "transformed" & am being transformed TODAY ,right now, as I write ..I have been salvaged , past tense ..A human Believer is alive to the future, TODAY, not in the future..The after life begins the moment a person believes, TODAY ..It's not futuristic, it' s TODAY ..Just as the thief on the cross was told, Christ said; TODAY thou shall be with me in paradise ..Of course that "paridise" was prior to Christ's assention to heaven ..A person becomes ETERNAL, TODAY, as their life mingles with God on this earth..God cannot deny Himself...A person is SEALED & Engaged to be married TODAY, in what God calls the day of redemption Or day of Glory..You need to get your facts straight from the horses mouth, so to speek ..You have been hoodwinked maybe by your own self rightious fellings.. I don't know you, but God knows ..
- nobody September 7, 2009 12:44PM
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Wut?
Very abstract. I'm sorry. I didn't pull anything useful from that reply.
Perhaps someone else will read it and be "transformed."
- m46607
September 7, 2009 1:56PM
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Anarchy vs Republic + Opposite Constitution
Mr. Reckoner,
This is a poor test when we consider these facts: The Ten Commandments are what everybody should follow, and even with the world masking it, we are ashamed when we do not abide by them.
Let me give you an example: Commandment VI says, "Thou shalt not kill." Commandment VII says "Though shalt not commit adultery." Commandment V says, "Thou shalt honor thy father an thy mother." Commandment VIII says, "Though shalt not steal." etc. When one kills, it is against the law . When one commits adultery, a marriage falls apart. When one does not honor their parents, a relationship breaks. When someone steals, it is against the law. Do you see my point. Not only is the Constitution based on these, but as we see in Commandment V, VII, and practically every other one, but things in life just don't work without laws like these.
I would also like to say that you appear as saying that Christians should have no law , and the the Constitution is God. This is not true. Please watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4r0VUybeXY&feature=related and you might see what I intend to say.
May God Bless you.
- Pray4Obama May 11, 2009 8:07PM
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All ten
Though many of the commandments are also found all (or nearly all) codes of morality... with murder and stealing being the biggest two... there are others that are not universal.
The very first three to four (depending on your denomination) all refer to the primacy of God (no other gods, no idols, keeping the sabbath). These are not universal, and treat them as such would make our nation a theocracy.
- MrBook
May 12, 2009 6:32AM
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What is a theocracy?
While I was reading this, I sensed that you had the wrong idea of a theocracy. A theocracy is a government in which church and state are indistinguishable - just like Britain used to be. Not everyone does follow them, but our nation was based upon them, and the founding fathers obeyed these commands. Read my other comment on this debate.
- Pray4Obama May 19, 2009 11:33AM
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pick and chose
I've never denied the Christian influence on the foundation of our nation... but that does not make the US a Christian Nation.
"The Ten Commandments are what everybody should follow, and even with the world masking it, we are ashamed when we do not abide by them."
Your words, to which I asked if that included the first three or four commandments... which are explicit Christian / Jewish in nature. If that is codified into the laws of the US that would make us very much a theocracy.
- MrBook
May 19, 2009 7:22PM
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Also
The philosophical background is somewhat murky with even those commandments, 5, 6, 7, especially within a biblical context.
Is G-d saying that killing is wrong BECAUSE it is against the law , or IRRESPECTIVE of the law?
One implies that following the law of the land\state you're inhabiting is inherently important, a priority that should be respected at the religious level. The other implies that some external moral\ legal authority exists, and the relationship between it and the state's law is somewhat murky.
Reckoner--There are many, many laws. And there are many, many commandments. I would challenge you to go through every law on the books and then definitively state that all laws are not based on Christian doctrine. Point to some that are based on Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist, whatever doctrines.
There are a bunch of laws peppered throughout the US Code that are written to either conform to the Christian doctrine, or to make things generally easier for Christians based on their Christianity--Which, to a non-Christian, is the government equivalent of saying "We like you guys. We're going to treat you preferentially because we just like you more."
- quantummechanik
May 19, 2009 2:36PM
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