By Jacob Sullum
Yesterday the FBI arrested a white supremacist in New Jersey for threatening federal judges, based on his online response to the recent 7th Circuit decision that said the Second Amendment does not constrain state and local governments. Here is a description of the crime that Hal Turner, an Internet radio host, committed:
"Let me be the first to say this plainly: These judges deserve to be killed," Mr. Turner wrote in a blog entry on June 2. "Their blood will replenish the tree of liberty. A small price to pay to assure freedom for millions."
He said the three judges, William J. Bauer, Frank H. Easterbrook and Richard A. Posner, should be made "an example" of in order to send a message to the rest of the federal judiciary: "Obey the Constitution or die."
Mr. Turner also posted the judges' photographs, phone numbers, work addresses and courtroom numbers.
There is no indication that Mr. Turner or anyone else acted on his warnings. Nonetheless, the Federal Bureau of Investigation said in an affidavit that it believed his comments constituted "a threat to assault or murder a United States judge."
This does not seem like a "true threat," one kind of speech the Supreme Court has said can be punished without violating the First Amendment. Turner did not actually threaten to commit violence; he simply argued that violence would be justified. What he said seems closer to incitement, except that in this case there is no threat of "imminent lawless action," one of the requirements imposed by the Court. Unless I'm missing something, what Turner said ought to be protected speech.
What do you think? Does the posting of photographs and information about the judges make a crucial difference?
As The New York Times notes, Turner's arrest is reminiscent of the "Nuremberg Files" case, in which the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit upheld a $109 million civil judgment against the operators of website that arguably encouraged violence against abortion providers. In 1999 I argued that the website should be protected by the First Amendment, the position that a 9th Circuit panel endorsed before it was overturned by the full court.

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OPINION: Radio Host Hal Turner Arrested for Making Online Threats
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Sticky
"Let me be the first to say this plainly: These judges deserve to be killed," Mr. Turner wrote in a blog entry on June 2. "Their blood will replenish the tree of liberty. A small price to pay to assure freedom for millions."
I am in conflict here. I suppose this man should be free to say these things. But if someone acts out and is a listener or web follower of this man, then he should be an accomplice. We have seen a good bit of arguing this lately in the Tiller case. In Tiller however, the inciters of hatred against him have been protected. So where do we draw the line?
Turner is being very explicit in his choice of words. Killed, blood, die. Not vote, send a letter, call your congress . He's not sitting around at a backyard BBQ saying this, he is sending this message out to countless people whom he doesn't know. He has no knowledge of their predisposition to act out on his words. His words are reprehensible and careless, but are they actually criminal?
- tek June 25, 2009 2:28PM
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Also
"Here's what they look like. Here's where they live. Here's their home phone number. Here's their work address. Here's the exact room where they sit in court."
He's printing an instruction manual. This goes beyond the line of free speech and gets into conspiracy to commit murder .
- quantummechanik
June 25, 2009 2:55PM
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not at this time
My personal feelings of course say "conspiracy to commit". But in the actual application as has recently been the case, so far, the "inciters" have been protected. This has been played out in the exact same fashion with the only difference being someone did die. And the result was entirely different.
I noticed the bit about it being federal judges protected. Should they be more important than a doctor or ditch digger (no offense intended to ditch diggers)? More questions spring forth the more I think about this.
- tek June 25, 2009 3:12PM
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Very touchy.
You're right tek. I would hate to be a judge on this one. I am vastly biased in favor of the Constitution, but there is precedent with regard to inciting "imminent lawless action" as pointed out in the article.
While I believe his speech was protected, sad as that is, I can see how you might say for a public figure to take the next step and post pictures, addresses, and phone numbers is crossing the line. Though I guess it's for the courts to decide whether that meets the definition of inciting "imminent lawless action."
All in all, as much as I despise his white supremacist views, I would be inclined to err in favor of free speech if I could not show the intent.
- LagerHead
June 25, 2009 3:01PM
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err in favor of free speech
As difficult as it is for me to say this, I wholly agree.
- tek June 25, 2009 3:12PM
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there is no base.
the courts decide what they want. There is no basis for truth. The people need to step up reform. people get shot everyday because they are poor. No one cares, Even though their only crime , is being poor, it is not an issue. that is outrageous. Then you have a responsible official doing illicit things. they should be killed. but you have a problem with that?
- jxzac June 25, 2009 3:53PM
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he should not be accoplice to murder.
should you put Socrates Einstein, and Jesus on trial too. I think not. if all three judges were executed. Put on trial those who comminted the legal crime of murder , assassination, ect. You're a horrible person to suggest Hal Turner should have any legal responsibility in that. THe judges should be in fear of people. If they're going to be corrupt in their doing, hopefully the people have enough power to kill them. If they die, so much the better. That's their houses, that's where they live. IF someone's going to risk their fredom to do something, well, in most likely hood, it was for some REASON.
- jxzac June 25, 2009 3:16PM
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In what warped reality
have you made the logical connection to Socrates, Einstein and Jesus, and this person here? Explain that to me--walk us through that.
- quantummechanik
June 27, 2009 9:44PM
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it should be protected speech.
But the people and they establishment are become evil. The direction of hate crime laws and you can see they can sentence this guy for eternity. Did he not speak the truth? those judges should be put to death. They know their crime is against humanity and justice. They fully resposible for putting them selves in a possition where they are to SERVE HUMANITY AND JUSTICE. They are directly neglegent on these two fronts. neither are they insane. They're just evil and society should destroy them. That is the truth, if it is illegal to proclaim such, then we're defeated. We can not let these people incriminate in such method.
- jxzac June 25, 2009 3:04PM
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liberal's are same as nazi's
they have no brains, and no moral center. why don't they attack russian in the middle of winter.
- jxzac June 25, 2009 3:18PM
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Attaboy, jxzac
Way to keep the intellectual and rhetorical bar raised high.
- quantummechanik
June 25, 2009 11:06PM
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the irony
I don't know much about this guy but the media is putting him out to be a white supremacist. He's being sent to a court where the Du Bois version of racism and segregation is standard protocol. i heard they;re going to have a clam bake at spike lee's house after the trial. You're hearing calls of incarcerated sodomy. Everyone of those people should lose their citizenship. That's just blatant hypocrisy. They want vigilante justice. hypocrites. But the courts know it's not about justice. the issue is the same. It began and ends on the same note. Power.
- jxzac June 25, 2009 6:37PM
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5 posts of sarcasm?
Jx, what the hell are you talking about? If you are trying be sarcastic over the last 5 posts, it's lost on me. So if you are, ok.
If you are not, I am rather worried. Judges ruled on the 2nd ammendment and they should be put to death? What? "They are just evil and society should destroy them". WTF are you talking about? Seriously, I am so taken aback right now by your posts.
- tek June 25, 2009 7:52PM
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i was speakign hypothetically over the issue.
if a group of judges handed out cigars to a group of pedophiles, totally foregoing sane legalities.. it should be a protected right for american's to express their opinion. On the small level, to the greatest level, (less on top) government abuses and moves to deeper abuse of their authority. How do you check an unlawful governance? There is only an illusion of justice in our justice system. they are quite guilty of abjuring justice on a continueous basis. we need to check that. We really need an overhaul. there's all these questions, what do we do about this, what do we do about that?? we hold them accountable and guilty. We had politicians in Connecticut looking to enforce farming restrictions on people. There were very nefarious reasons for it. It is really in the interest of freedom, prosperity, and well being to do 'whatever it takes" to stop those people. When the british were being bombed by the germans, the democrats in america took a back seat and said 'all's fair in war'. Luckily japan got us involved and for selfish reasons we sided with the british. They didn't have a problem with the nazi 's on a moral level. It was a personal level. With japan involved, that give germany too much leverage over the U.S. let's get involved. here we are in the modern day, and these democrats are the same democrats. When you have a politician that's lying to the people. any means that is plausable should be expressed as 'good'. It would have been 'good' had the U.S. prevented the germans from invadeing Czechoslovakia. Should that be illegal to state?
- jxzac June 26, 2009 3:17PM
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another example because i don't think you get it
you have 8 cops, they come into your store. they kick out the customers and begin to rape your wife on the counter. what do you do? do write out a letter to city hall? or do you hand a shotgun to your son, and say, hey, we're taking these guys out boy.'
honestly what do you do? if at anytime it should be illegal to answer such a question, it is really the time to remove all officers. it is war.
- jxzac June 26, 2009 3:55PM
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that's the reality. we have to keep the option open
we need to have more guns in the hands of more people. it would be great to see communities, towns and states, shed the shackles of government. if it takes an armed militia, it's not because of unreasonable citizens. It's a unreasonable government, working for the few whom wish to control the many. That's why we have democrats and urban teen pregnancy . It's their prevention.
- jxzac June 26, 2009 4:07PM
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in closing.
liberals want a one way street. The maggotous people don't have the integrity of mind to see their hypocrisy, though i'm sure the ones in the higher echelon have a clear understanding of their deceit. That's really a line that deserves swift justice. We fought to forge this country to free ourselves from the very tyranny that is the heart of the liberal perspective. Even spiritually. They want you to accept it when they rape, murder , cheat, steal, plunder, and destroy your freedom and liberties, yet they have an utter abhorrence to the suggestion that they should receive as they give out. That is the definition of evil. you'll see it everyday, everytime they speak. Justice it their most hated concept.
- jxzac June 26, 2009 9:40PM
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Attention, OP
http://www.seeingtheforest.com/archives/2005/12/repubicans_drop.htm
Read the preceding link. Replace the word liberal with the word Jew. Reread everything this guy has said.
- quantummechanik
June 28, 2009 9:47AM
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