Opposing Views: NEWS:Utah Man Tasered 6 Times at Traffic Stop - You be the Judge
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A Utah man is expected to file a federal civil rights lawsuit soon against the sheriff's deputies who tasered him six times after being pulled over in May. His initial crime -- his license plate wasn't hanging properly. Police say they tasered him because he was resisting.
Immediately after Bruce Harper was pulled over, a Davis County Sheriff's Deputy yelled out "Stay in your car, stay in your car." But Harper got out, and that's where the trouble began.
He refused the deputy's demand to get back into the car. Then he refused orders to turn around and put his hands on his head. In fact, with his gun drawn, the deputy yelled "turn around" more than 60 times. Harper kept pleading with the deputy to tell him what he had done wrong, at one point even asking "are you going to shoot me?" But the deputy kept telling him to turn around.
Finally, the deputy yelled "taser," and Harper was hit with shooting electrodes. In the effort to subdue him, Harper said he was tasered five or six more times. Harper was acquitted at trial a few weeks ago of the resisting charge, but was found guilty of failing to properly display his license plate.
Harper's attorney, Mark Flores, told Salt Lake City's ABC 4, "I still find it unbelievable that someone can get pulled over for a crooked front license plate... and somehow ends up getting tasered six times."
When asked why Harper didn't follow the deputy's orders, Flores said simply, “He was afraid."
This incident raises several questions. First, did the deputies go too far on just a routine traffic stop? The media uses the term "routine traffic stop" liberally, but ask any cop, and they will tell you no traffic stop is "routine." They say you never know who is inside that car, what kind of weapon they may have, and what they are capable of. So when Harper got out of the car and refused to follow orders, he was treated as a possible deadly threat. Police have procedures for this, and this deputy was just following them.
But looking at it from Harper's point of view, he knows he didn't do anything wrong, so why is he being pulled over? And when he asks the deputy who has a gun trained on him what he did, the deputy refuses to answer, only to repeat "turn around" over and over again. That had to be frustrating for Harper. And then to apparently taser him over and over again as he yells out in agony, well, you can see why Harper would file a lawsuit.
Every law enforcement organization says when in a situation like this, just follow the orders of the officer, and everything will be all right. After watching what happened to Bruce Harper, that is probably advice worth following.
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NEWS:Utah Man Tasered 6 Times at Traffic Stop - You be the Judge
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It's just easier if you do what you're told, right or wrong. Worry about the rightness or wrongness later, in court if necessary. This whole scene could have been avoided about 6 seconds into it if Mr. Brain Donor had just got back in his car when told. Story over. Case closed.
This probably would have been a verbal warning and off you go, but now he and the cop are in this verbal pissing contest over who was right. Too bad for him. Too bad for the cop.
I got mad just watching that clip. The stop was bogus. If there's anything wrong with the license plate, you sure can't see it in the video .
Here's the Utah code that apparently applies:
"(3) Every license plate shall at all times be: (a) securely fastened: (i) in a horizontal position to the vehicle for which it is issued to prevent the plate from swinging; (ii) at a height of not less than 12 inches from the ground, measuring from the bottom of the plate; and (iii) in a place and position to be clearly visible"
The plate is clearly visible, it's at a height at least 12 inches from the ground, it is in a "horizontal position" to prevent it from swinging.
The law does NOT require a license plate to be perfectly straight, but to be horizontally positioned so it doesn't swing.
Utah code also requires compliance with a "lawful order". No lawful order can result from a stop without probable cause. The guy was completely within his rights to demand an explanation after being stopped without probable cause. It was nothing more and nothing less than an illegal shake down stop in violation of his constitutional right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure.
This situation could have been avoided if the police had not violated the highest law of the land.
Most cops are good people doing a hard job under difficult conditions . These guys are a disgrace to their badges and do nothing more than breed contempt for better men than themselves.
Actually the police officer pulled him over looking for a possible DUI or some other offense. The license plate was simply a reason to pull him over. Mr. Harper got out of his car and did not hear the officers tell him to get back into his car until he was out and facing the officer. The first thing Mr. Harper observed was a gun pointed at his head and then the officer screaming at him. He was afraid because he did not know why the police officer had pulled his gun. It is important to know that Mr. Harper was sober, that he did not have a gund, knife or any other weapon, he never threatened the police officer, and once the officer told him to take his hands out of his pockets he made sure he kept his hands away from his body where the officer could see them.
At one point Mr. Harper complys with the officer request to put his hands on his head and turn around. The officer then escalated the situation by telling Mr. Harper to get on his knees. At that point Mr. Harper was starting to question whether the police officer was in fact an officer and whether it was just some guy posing as an officer who planned to shoot him. You even hear Mr. Harper ask at that point "are you going to shoot me?"
What is not shown in the video version above are the officer standing around laughing about tasering Mr. Harper. You also don't see in this version of the incident, as you do in two other videos , the police tasering Mr Harper and then yelling quit resiting arrest and then tasering him again as he flops around from the previous taser hit.
Here in Australia you would get out of your car to meet them half way. If you look at how the police services act in Russia and china , from an outsider’s point of view, “SOME” US police Depts., act the same way... The pain caused by an electric shock can be intense, leading electricity at times to be employed as a method of torture . You don’t see the police using 5 seconds of baton hits to a person chest in order to get them to the ground and if that don’t work give another 6 lots of 5 seconds beltings with the baton.
The idiot deserves it. All he had to do is listen to the cop. Just like all of the other Americans do and none of this would have happened. I really think he should have been tasered. Maybe after the 10th time the cop told him to turn around. I counted over 60 times the cop told him to turn around and put his hands on his head. It wouldn't surprise me if this guy has a lengthy criminal record.
Seems like another defiant punk to me. The cop was completely justified using the taser in that situation. His patience baffles me though. I certainly wouldn't have waited so long.
Harper's attorney, Mark Flores, told Salt Lake City's ABC 4, "I still find it unbelievable that someone can get pulled over for a crooked front license plate... and somehow ends up getting tasered six times."
I agree. You have to be a moron at an All-World level to turn a routine traffic stop into a 6x taser event. Congrats, Mr. Harper, you're a weiner.
Mr. Harper was cooperative one time, and one time only during this whole exchange. He smartly removed his hand from his pocket when so ordered. For the next 3 minutes he refused to comply with any of the over 65 lawful orders, and continued to approach the officer, and became more agitated.
Mr. Harper's uncooperativeness and approaching manner put the officer into a defensive position from the very start, from which he was not going to retreat without full cooperation from Mr. Harper.
Expecting an explanation before you decide whether or not to cooperate is not realistic and not a right. What if the answer was not to Mr. Harper's liking ? Does he only have to cooperate if he agrees with the officer's reason for stopping him ?
The question of the validity of the traffic stop has no impact on whether or not you should cooperate with lawful orders.
There are much better ways to correctly handle traffic stops. Flexyourrights.org has plenty of good advice for maintaining your rights.
What happened after the tazing was off camera, and is hopefully what this lawsuit is about. Everything up to that point was soley the fault of Mr. Harper.
I stand corrected. Mr. Harper actually did comply a second time by turning around and putting his hands on his head. Elapsed time: 2 seconds. Then, when ordered to get on his knees, Mr. Harper aggressively turned back to the officer and dropped his hands. You could almost see his thought process. "I'm NOT doing that!"
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NEWS:Utah Man Tasered 6 Times at Traffic Stop - You be the Judge
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Just goes to show ya.
It's just easier if you do what you're told, right or wrong. Worry about the rightness or wrongness later, in court if necessary. This whole scene could have been avoided about 6 seconds into it if Mr. Brain Donor had just got back in his car when told. Story over. Case closed.
This probably would have been a verbal warning and off you go, but now he and the cop are in this verbal pissing contest over who was right. Too bad for him. Too bad for the cop.
- LagerHead
November 4, 2009 1:35PM
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That was completely out of line!
I got mad just watching that clip. The stop was bogus. If there's anything wrong with the license plate, you sure can't see it in the video .
Here's the Utah code that apparently applies:
"(3) Every license plate shall at all times be:
(a) securely fastened:
(i) in a horizontal position to the vehicle for which it is issued to prevent the plate from swinging;
(ii) at a height of not less than 12 inches from the ground, measuring from the bottom of the plate; and
(iii) in a place and position to be clearly visible"
The plate is clearly visible, it's at a height at least 12 inches from the ground, it is in a "horizontal position" to prevent it from swinging.
The law does NOT require a license plate to be perfectly straight, but to be horizontally positioned so it doesn't swing.
Utah code also requires compliance with a "lawful order". No lawful order can result from a stop without probable cause. The guy was completely within his rights to demand an explanation after being stopped without probable cause. It was nothing more and nothing less than an illegal shake down stop in violation of his constitutional right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure.
This situation could have been avoided if the police had not violated the highest law of the land.
Most cops are good people doing a hard job under difficult conditions . These guys are a disgrace to their badges and do nothing more than breed contempt for better men than themselves.
- Don Earl
November 6, 2009 3:10AM
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A closer look
Actually the police officer pulled him over looking for a possible DUI or some other offense. The license plate was simply a reason to pull him over. Mr. Harper got out of his car and did not hear the officers tell him to get back into his car until he was out and facing the officer. The first thing Mr. Harper observed was a gun pointed at his head and then the officer screaming at him. He was afraid because he did not know why the police officer had pulled his gun. It is important to know that Mr. Harper was sober, that he did not have a gund, knife or any other weapon, he never threatened the police officer, and once the officer told him to take his hands out of his pockets he made sure he kept his hands away from his body where the officer could see them.
At one point Mr. Harper complys with the officer request to put his hands on his head and turn around. The officer then escalated the situation by telling Mr. Harper to get on his knees. At that point Mr. Harper was starting to question whether the police officer was in fact an officer and whether it was just some guy posing as an officer who planned to shoot him. You even hear Mr. Harper ask at that point "are you going to shoot me?"
What is not shown in the video version above are the officer standing around laughing about tasering Mr. Harper. You also don't see in this version of the incident, as you do in two other videos , the police tasering Mr Harper and then yelling quit resiting arrest and then tasering him again as he flops around from the previous taser hit.
- lawman
November 6, 2009 11:20PM
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outsider’s point of view
Here in Australia you would get out of your car to meet them half way. If you look at how the police services act in Russia and china , from an outsider’s point of view, “SOME” US police Depts., act the same way...
The pain caused by an electric shock can be intense, leading electricity at times to be employed as a method of torture . You don’t see the police using 5 seconds of baton hits to a person chest in order to get them to the ground and if that don’t work give another 6 lots of 5 seconds beltings with the baton.
- Aussieqld
November 5, 2009 4:45AM
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He deserves it
The idiot deserves it. All he had to do is listen to the cop. Just like all of the other Americans do and none of this would have happened. I really think he should have been tasered. Maybe after the 10th time the cop told him to turn around. I counted over 60 times the cop told him to turn around and put his hands on his head. It wouldn't surprise me if this guy has a lengthy criminal record.
- dquinn
November 10, 2009 12:43PM
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What took so long?
Seems like another defiant punk to me. The cop was completely justified using the taser in that situation. His patience baffles me though. I certainly wouldn't have waited so long.
- Bel
November 10, 2009 7:39PM
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what NOT to do when you get stopped
IMHO...
Harper's attorney, Mark Flores, told Salt Lake City's ABC 4, "I still find it unbelievable that someone can get pulled over for a crooked front license plate... and somehow ends up getting tasered six times."
I agree. You have to be a moron at an All-World level to turn a routine traffic stop into a 6x taser event. Congrats, Mr. Harper, you're a weiner.
Mr. Harper was cooperative one time, and one time only during this whole exchange. He smartly removed his hand from his pocket when so ordered. For the next 3 minutes he refused to comply with any of the over 65 lawful orders, and continued to approach the officer, and became more agitated.
Mr. Harper's uncooperativeness and approaching manner put the officer into a defensive position from the very start, from which he was not going to retreat without full cooperation from Mr. Harper.
Expecting an explanation before you decide whether or not to cooperate is not realistic and not a right. What if the answer was not to Mr. Harper's liking ? Does he only have to cooperate if he agrees with the officer's reason for stopping him ?
The question of the validity of the traffic stop has no impact on whether or not you should cooperate with lawful orders.
There are much better ways to correctly handle traffic stops. Flexyourrights.org has plenty of good advice for maintaining your rights.
What happened after the tazing was off camera, and is hopefully what this lawsuit is about. Everything up to that point was soley the fault of Mr. Harper.
- gely50
November 12, 2009 11:00AM
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Upon further review
I stand corrected. Mr. Harper actually did comply a second time by turning around and putting his hands on his head. Elapsed time: 2 seconds. Then, when ordered to get on his knees, Mr. Harper aggressively turned back to the officer and dropped his hands. You could almost see his thought process. "I'm NOT doing that!"
Wanna bet, Mr. Harper ? How'd that work for ya ?
- gely50
November 13, 2009 9:10AM
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