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Do you suffer from chronic pain? Maybe acupuncture is just what the doctor ordered. Millions of people say that acupuncture has alleviated their suffering and boosted their bodies, but others insist that it's more rooted in belief than scientific fact. Is acupuncture really the cure for what ails you, or does it only turn you into a human pincushion?
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There ARE Limitations to Acupuncture
- From Bill Reddy
By Bill Reddy - American Association of Acupuncture...
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Evidence?
Mr. Reddy writes Musculoskeletal pain, internal conditions, dermatological and neurological conditions all respond favorably to acupuncture."
Cite the high-quality evidence for any ailment.
- JJM
September 5, 2008 2:25AM
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Side: No
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Let's sum this up.
You start by saying that in 1983 NCCAM and the WHO endorse acupuncture for approximately 75% of the world’s ailments. But as Dr. Novella points out, there was no NCCAM at that time and you provide no support whatsoever for this most extraordinary claim.
I’m sure that in your mind being an aerospace engineer qualifies you competently review medical literature (after all you trumpet the credential). I guess that makes Dr. Novella qualified to flight test helicopters. Seems logical.
You summarize a fertility study but again forgot the references. Then you say a PubMed search returns 13000 references. Gee, if you could only reference half a dozen or so well controlled, properly constructed, and analyzed studies with positive findings we might be more impressed. Come on, help us do our homework.
You do a good job of “proving” acupuncture is less dangerous than conventional medicine. And I agree. I bet the shaking of rattles, incantation of magic words, the waving of hands, and just plain wishing are all less dangerous than acupuncture.
But then you make your first good point. Why would people do this for 5000 years if it didn’t offer any benefit? Why would people keep coming back to you if you didn’t make them feel better? Of course it does make people feel better. But this is due to the placebo effect bolstered by your reassurances. After all this is what the medical literature really says.
So what’s the harm in what you do? Other than taking people’s money for a fraudulent treatment; it keeps people from getting legitimate help. Remember, you are an aerospace engineer, not a trained physician. Sooner or later someone will come to you with a serious medical problem. You will fail to recognize it for what it is and waste their time with bogus treatment. They will die or suffer severe injury when they did not have to.
- SMK September 7, 2008 3:11PM
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Side: No
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Disrespectful
This seems a very disrespectful tone. The argument that acupuncture may keep someone from getting legitimate results is really nonsense. I have lost count of how many people in 30 years that I have sent to a medical doctor sometimes more than once because of my concerns, e.g. the high blood pressures cases I have refered to a physician, even patients who were attending a physician for some other complaint. And what about the people who are not helped and even damaged because they are put on powerful medication when in many cases a simpler less dangerous treatment of even preventative health advice could have sufficed.
- AAPrescott
September 11, 2008 4:01PM
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Side: Yes
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Evidence??
It has been a week and Mr Reddy has not provided any high-quality evidence. Perhaps he should study R. Barker Bausell's "Snake Oil Science" (Oxford, 2007).
Mr. Prescott seems upset that the facts are not on his side.
>AAP "This seems a very disrespectful tone. The argument that acupuncture may keep someone from getting legitimate results is really nonsense. I have lost count of how many people in 30 years that I have sent to a medical doctor sometimes more than once because of my concerns, {snip}"
-How many truly ill people have you failed to recognize? You don't know because you can only address rudimentary stuff, such as hypertension. It is not nonsense that AltMed types do not know diagnosis and delay needed treatment.
>AAP "And what about the people who are not helped and even damaged because they are put on powerful medication when in many cases a simpler less dangerous treatment of even preventative health advice could have sufficed."
-That is irrelevant to the question of whether acupuncture "works." Perhaps you can cite reliable evidence (reliable, as described in Bausell's book) that acupuncture works.
- JJM
September 12, 2008 7:29AM
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Clarificaction
Please do not distort my meaning.
I was upset because your comments verged on personal attack on the previous 'speaker'.
I do not see much to be achieved continuing a conversation where the 'goal posts' are moved, but lest you think I am defeated by your brilliant arguments.
I am a psyhiatric nure by training, so my background for recognizing 'red flags' that require referral to a regular physician are quite strong. What are your 'facts' for this common but unproven assertion based upon? Mine are based upon 30 years experience in health care, including being in charge of hospital units.
- AAPrescott
September 12, 2008 8:51AM
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High-quality research ...
AA Prescott, if you are an adequately-educated nurse, perhaps you can identify some, true illnesses. However, if you believe in acupuncture, it reflects badly on your medical education.
The goalposts have not been moved. The claim is unchanged- acupuncture is a pre-scientific superstition.
Maybe you could be the first to cite high-quality research supporting acupuncture. It would be quite a coup- nobody else seems to be able to do so.
- JJM
September 12, 2008 12:40PM
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Efficacy not proven
It is simply not true to say that acupuncture is of proven efficacy for all of these conditions (see Ernst E. Acupuncture – a critical analysis. J Intern Med. 2006;259(2):125-37)
- Edzard Ernst
September 15, 2008 3:18AM
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Side: Uncommitted
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