Is Torture Ever Justified?

Let's agree on a couple things here...

This is going in multiple directions. Perhaps we can agree on a couple things so we don't torture ourselves on this rack of debate?

First, waterboarding is torture. Thank you, Mangueken, for your insert of historical and international information. I agree with you completely. And yes, the Inquisitors are bad people. However, the Inquisitors also were total psychopaths, and I'd prefer to think that we do not share such an illustrious title yet.

Torture is a broad topic, and waterboarding certainly includes discomfort. Let's not nitpick over anguish and pain, because, really, waterboarding is drowning someone, even partially. When you drown, you die. DYING REALLY SUCKS. I've never almost drowned before, so I'll take your word that there are certainly worse things out there. Including hot pokers, the rack, and ripping out fingernails. However, it's still bad. If you don't want it done again, then it's unpleasant. And that's the objective of torture, to make someone experience something unpleasant so they talk. If you've read 1984, (spoiler alert) a rat is used as a form of torture at the end of the novel because the main character hates rats. Nothing was done to him physically, and there were no scars later. However, it wasn't pleasant. It got the desired effect. My point? Let's agree that waterboarding and drowning sucks and can be a form of torture.

As far as legality goes, Mangueken, I suggest you gather information on other nations. In all likelihood, their regular prisons could probably match our secret federal ones. They are not going to be eager to prosecute us. And we still have one of the nicest dispositions towards criminals, barring this torture thing.

Now, yes, it's morally wrong. I acknowledge and agree with that. However, the issue is essentially if we want to sacrifice moral high ground for safety. This is a major debate in virtually all politics everywhere. I am for torture, and a mild torture if possible, in only certain specific extreme circumstances. In other words, I am this close to a "no."

Yes----------------------ME---No

And I am "yes" because the question is whether or not torture is ever justifiable. (scroll up if you don't believe me) Not whether you like it and support Abu Ghraib, whether or not it is permissible in certain circumstances. If the information is accurate and can be put to good use, then it might be worth it. Having said that, we also must keep some moral ground. We shouldn't look as bad as others. However, one or two tortures a year versus the 100's of tortures (and executions, mind you) by other nations does not make us equal to them. (1 vs. 100's) We cannot be completely lily-white pure, because then we're almost asking to be attacked. I'm not saying we should go biker-gang on the UN, I'm just saying that a holier-than-thou disposition could be just as bad as a torturing-nation disposition. We need a middle ground, because if we turn our other cheek to the terrorists all the time, they'll be more than happy to strike it.

And to Reckoner: I agree that there is a difference between waterboarding daily and drowning once. However, the effect and experience is similar. Water stops you from breathing. You panic. Maybe you black out. It sucks. You don't want it to happen again. Your point might have been better if you also used a different comparison. Your point with drowning was repetition. The second comparison compared two completely different things, one being voluntary and desirable and the other being a felony. Sex and rape is not the same comparison as drowning and waterboarding in that only one of the first pair sucks.