Opposing Views: Spanking is An Act of Violence

Regarding Argument

Spanking is An Act of Violence

- From Center for Effective Discipline

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modelling violence

When we spank children we are teaching them to hit when they really want to get their way, and when they're really angry. Instead, we should be showing them how adults who are really angry can use their words and control their anger.

- Lisa August 1, 2008 5:59AM

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- Yes...
  
  we are encouraging our children that when others do something they do not like, it is okay to assault them. This is completely unacceptable!
  
  - JessicaSideways October 7, 2009 3:19PM
  
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  - just resarching on this topic.
    
    Im working on this paper, the topic is corporal punishment . I was reading how you mentioned about encouraging our children into thinking it is okay to assault others for their actions. I very much support the action in discipline (spanking). I understand it is unacceptable when it comes to beating them or traumatizing them. In this case I was raised getting a spanking when i did something i was not supposed to and i learned after the first time, i never took it as an assault from my parents nor a beating, i understood why it had to be done. Now i'm not a violent person in any way and i respect others and their opinions, i'm not a crazy girl going around assaulting anyone and so I'm totally down to hearing others opinions, and i also like to ask to get the understanding as to why they feel that way.
    
    - curiousity taking over February 17, 2010 6:54PM
    
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Rosemond is not a "Dr"

John Rosemond has no PhD. He only has a master's degree in psychology, from Western Illinois U. It's misleading, at best, for him to call himself a psychologist. And he's certainly no "expert" in psychology. Professors and other PhD recipients in psychology almost unanimously agree that hitting children is harmful and gentler forms of discipline are preferred. Rosemond is an anomaly in the psychology field.

1) Rosemond defies authority (the American Psychological Association, those with more education such an the Directors of CED, and those with actual experience in research).
2 ) Rosemond lies to the public about what the research on hitting children says (and makes money from it).
3) Rosemond calls names and insults people.

By Rosemond's own advice, if he were younger he would deserve to be spanked for the above 3 offenses. We have a shining example here of why spanking doesn't work, since Rosemond was undoubtedly spanked by his single mom and/or stepfather.

- Susan Lawrence August 7, 2008 3:16PM

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Spanking is a contradiction to love

The Dalai Lama wrote, "We cannot feel desire and hatred at exactly the same time toward the very same object. We can certainly have these feelings at different times, but not in the very same moment, which shows that these two attitudes function in contradiction to each other. When one of them increases in strength, the other decreases." Spanking seems that way to me: to spank a child, we must hate and reject his or her body; to hit and intentially hurt it. However, there are positive, effective ways to raise a child in love and peace... with no contradictions.

- Randy Cox August 13, 2008 2:42PM

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- Spanking is not related to hate
  
  Parents don't discipline-by-spanking children because they hate them.
  
  "However, there are positive, effective ways to raise a child in love and peace... with no contradictions."
  
  As I mentioned in another post, this is the difference in the attitude of "parenting" parents and "child rearing" parents.
  
  If you have to discipline your child, then there will always be a contradiction of interest.
  i.e.
  Is stealing wrong? Yes. Should we hate it? Yes. If my child steals, should I hate him/her? No. I hate what he/she did, but I don't hate him/her.
  
  So discipline comes along to make sure he/she doesn't steal again....to teach him/her to hate stealing as well. People HATE thieves. So the parent's job is to make sure he/she's not a thief. To make sure she's not hated.
  
  - reb412 August 30, 2008 10:57AM
  
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  - Spanking is a contradiction to love
    
    reb42 writes: Is stealing wrong? Yes. Should we hate it? Yes. If my child steals, should I hate him/her? No. I hate what he/she did, but I don't hate him/her."
    
    My guess is that reb42 is talking about spanking when he/she says "discipline". Lots of folks say "discipline" when they don't mean "teach". They mean "punish". Disciples are those who are taught or who follow a teacher. If I wanted to teach a child to hate stealing, I wouldn't think that hitting the child would teach anything but to be afraid of getting caught stealing. Hitting the child doesn't show a child how to be honest, how to have compassion for the victims of theft, how to value ownership or anything worthwhile. The child will merely regret getting caught. Stealing followed by a stinging butt from a parent just means that the stinging butt can be avoided by stealing outside the parent's awareness. Hitting the child's body just means that the parent wants the child's body to hurt. Why? Because the parent found out about the stealing and is angry about how it feels realizing that the child is a thief and, as reb42 says, must be hated. But this is primitive thinking. The theft is plotted in the brain, not the butt. If we want a child to not plot to steal, we must reach the brain. The butt is a really far place to start. Communicating in that way in that area really is irrational, if you can think about it for very long. The butt is just a place that is usually padded well enough so that, in the majority of cases in lucky children, no permanent disfigurement can be caused. It is a safer place to show that you hate the body than, say, the head. While closer to the brain, this is as impractical a way to try to communicate with the brain than than reb42's favored place. Really, children are very smart at the earliest ages. The brain of a toddler can be engaged quite directly without touching him or her anywhere. The best place from which to prevent theft is internally. External methods of control are inferior, very temporary and unreliable when more than an arm's length away. Internal controls are never developed by the use of external control. No child ever learned not to steal by being hit. Learning not to steal is an internal experience and occurs by the brain incorporating the values of the parent, as commuicated by demonstration, modeling, and speech. Spanking is a contradiction of love. We don't mistreat what we value. Spanking is merely the venting of anger and it is easily interpretted as just that by the youngest.
    
    - Randy Cox August 30, 2008 12:12PM
    
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    - Spanking i.e. Discipline
      
      Spanking is teaching, in it's most primitive form.
      
      And as for the word "punishment". A teacher has the responsibility to ensure the student learns and with that responsibility comes forms of punishment. Schools have forms of punishment to ensure students learn. So, yes, I do think that punishment is discipline.
      
      "If I wanted to teach a child to hate stealing, I wouldn't think that hitting the child would teach anything but to be afraid of getting caught stealing."
      
      ==
      
      "If I wanted to teach a speeder to stop driving over the speed limit, I wouldn't think that giving him a ticket would teach him anything but to be afraid of getting caught speeding again."
      
      Exactly! That's the whole point. Rules and laws exist in this world because humans are imperfect and will naturally want to bend the rules. I hate following the speed limit around my house because it's only 25 MPH......and so does everyone else.....but why do we obey it? Because there is a police man down the street. Not because we like to drive 25. Not because we are all cotton-candy fluffy inside....but because we are scared of getting a ticket.
      
      "No child ever learned not to steal by being hit."
      
      This child did (though I wasn't hit, I was spanked). :-)
      
      "Spanking is merely the venting of anger and it is easily interpreted as just that by the youngest."
      
      If spanking is done in anger, than it isn't spanking, it's hitting and it's wrong. Spanking is discipline (teaching) and enforcement of rules (which is reinforcement of something already taught).
      
      Rcox, what you mentioned above is the philosophy and ideas of Ben Spock. I've heard it a million times, read it in books, etc. and despite the fact that Dr. Spock retracted a lot of what he taught....it's still be taught around the country.
      
      I really do understand what you are saying, but the problem is, it just isn't true in real life. I've seen soo many children dying for some kind of security which they don't have because no one has ever told them "no". I know this conversation is about spanking but it really is deeper than that because it is about punishment / discipline on a broad scope.
      
      I visit the jails frequently with a local Chaplin here and there's two things the prisoners have in common: They all know their DC number and they all know the judge's name that put them there. Many write their judge every week and many have a warm affinity toward them. You know why? because for some, it's the first person in their life that told them "no", "that's enough", "stop". And so much of that is because their baby boomer parents were told by Spock and others not to discipline their children, not to tell them "no"....(it's a dirty word), etc. And there are children CRYING out for some sort of security net and they don't have it because of these philosophies.
      
      Like I said, this boils down to an issue of rearing children. The opposition of corporal punishment is just the fruit stemming from the underlying issue.
      
      - reb412 August 30, 2008 1:07PM
      
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      - Spanking is a contradiction to love
        
        You're probably right, reb42. Spanking is primitive. I think there was a time when you might say to your child, "come near my mammoth meat one more time, child, and I'll club-beat you back into your mother's womb". It was indeed a primitive and brutal time when children were expendable and so were their mothers. That is not how we should or need to live today. We bond emotionally with our children now and hitting them violates trust and impares bonding.
        
        We've prohibited a spouse from using physical aggression on a spouse and prohibiting parental physical aggression is not that far off. It's the natural process of moral evolution. When it is unthought of to hit a child, there will be less child abuse (what experts refer to as "spanking gone awry"). Hitting and hurting is not a legitimate way to relate with *anyone* we love.
        
        And, by the way, not all hitting is spanking but all spanking is most certainly hitting. A spanking that involves no hitting is not a spanking.
        
        You know? A dictionary can be borrowed at a library and most book stores wouln't mind your looking up a word or two. I hope you'll visit one of these excellent sources of objective information before you write again. I don't have time for any more anecdotes or folk lore.
        
        - Randy Cox August 30, 2008 2:12PM
        
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        No solution
        
        That was a rather evolved, civil response. :p
        
        The brutal time when children and mothers were expendable? How can you say that ridding the world of corporal punishment will better child abuse when hitting your spouse is illegal and there's more of it than ever! There's more child abuse, spouse abuse, divorce, mental abuse, etc. than ever in America's history. A lot of it has to do with ridiculous child psych mumbo jumbo out there too. We're aren't getting better, we're getting worse.....devolving socially not evolving (it's the law of entropy).
        
        BTW, here's the definition of Spanking (v) / spank (n)
        
        (and I think you know what I mean between the difference of "hitting" a child and "spanking" one)
        
        © 2008 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.
        American Heritage Dictionary
        v. tr.
        To slap on the buttocks with a flat object or with the open hand, as for punishment.
        n. A slap on the buttocks.
        
        - reb412 August 30, 2008 8:28PM
        
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        Yes I agree with you reb412
        
        Many people fail to understand that when you need to punish your child, it's actually a part of the training process for the child, it's part of trying to instill discipline in the child. It's really a part of the disciplining process. See I agree with all you've said.
        
        - daughterofgoodluck August 31, 2008 8:38AM
        
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      - Got to love this
        
        You sure are making a lot of sense here. I've read all your posts on this topic and they are just the best, revealing and most sensible. Thanks for increasing our knowledge.
        
        - daughterofgoodluck August 31, 2008 8:33AM
        
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  - Yes, because...
    
    You only assault those that you love. I would hate to see what you do to those you do not love.
    
    - JessicaSideways October 7, 2009 3:20PM
    
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Spanking is punishment, thats it

There is not a doubt that the views of many Americans have changed over the years. For the older people in this group, say over 35 years of age. When you got in trouble you were punished by spanking . I am a young adult in the world today and even when I was younger I was spanked for the wrongs I committed and oh did I learn from them! I listened to my father tell me his punishments when he was a child, he did something wrong and he was hit on his butt with a broom. Now a days people with think that as abuse, but back then it wasn't; It was the punishment the parents chose because they didn't want to hit him with their hands. Kids these days are brats! Even at the youngest of ages if they are spanked they thinks its abuse because they don't think they did anything wrong in the first place to deserve the punishment, which is wrong. I personally think spanking your child is the right thing to do. Can you honestly say to me if your 4year old does something wrong you're going to sit him/her down like an adult and tell them what they did was wrong and their going to understand you? No they will disregard what you told them and do it again! They need to be taught a lesson young, that if you do something wrong you will get punished for it. It doesn't always have to be spanking though. Although I do think it can be the most effective. And contrary to much belief it is not an act of hate and it will not make the child wanna kill you when they are older. Also explain why they were spanked, don't just spank them and walk away, say their wrongs and punish them so they no never to do it again.

- brebee014 December 13, 2008 1:17PM

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There are boundaries.

There's a fine line between swatting a child's backside as a form of discipline and beating the crap out of that child. Spanking is a reasonable method to teach your child right and wrong. When I was little I was spanked whenever I did something wrong and realized not to do it again. I don't believe I am in any way devastated for receiving spankings in my childhood. Spanking has been a method of discipline for a very long time and is not violence unless taken too far.

- krispy January 23, 2009 11:06PM

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Spanking does NOT always intend to cause pain

There is definitely a place to draw the line between discipline and abuse, and when spanking becomes hitting and is actually causing the child physical pain or injurt, that is unacceptable. But many parents who use spanking as a method of discipline do NOT spank hard enough to cause pain, but rather to cause shock. A spank is startling to a child and is often effective as a last resort. Children cry the same way they do when spanked when a toy is taken away, does this mean they are hurt? Of course not... they're simply angry or upset. There is nothing wrong with a light smack on the behind as a way of being straightforward and putting your foot down.

- SSNickel February 9, 2009 9:01PM

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Regarding Objection

Again, This is Rhetoric

- From Anonymous Expert

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Sweden has less child abuse

Rosemond's comment that Sweden had more child abuse after passing a ban on hitting children is FALSE. He (and Larzelere) should stop saying that. When a country re-defines child abuse to *include spanking* then of course, for a while at least, there is *more* abuse because you're now including all hitting as abuse.

Sweden has very little child hitting at this point, and extremely low levels of child injury and death from hitting. The US, on the other hand, where hitting children is legal in all 50 states, there is a very high level of child abuse, and injury and death from hitting.

- SojournerTruth August 1, 2008 10:55AM

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- Definition of abuse is different in every country
  
  Yeah when you redefine a word for law, it does change how you view stats. For instance, in Sweden, it isn't a criminal act (or even a punishable act) to spank your child (not technically considered domestic violence). It's something that the Swedes demand counseling for, etc. So "abuse" is not as severe as how we think of it in America. I think of "abuse" as something that should be SEVERELY punished to ensure it doesn't happen again. Semantics can wreak havoc.
  
  - reb412 August 30, 2008 8:39PM
  
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Sweden Embraces Its Law & Children

UNICEF reports that after nearly 30 years since spanking was outlawed in Sweden (1979), more than 90% of the population desires continuing the ban on corporal punishment. This obviously includes the generation raised within it.

You can argue and tweak statistics on reported child abuse, but if the ban was ineffective or having a negative impact on society, the citizens living with the law would not overwhelmingly approve of it.

- matwang August 7, 2008 8:42AM

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- Swede article
  
  Good article on this.
  
  http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/233338/the_effects_of_the_no_spanking_law.html?page=3&cat=37
  
  - reb412 August 30, 2008 8:41PM
  
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Well Said, John

Sometimes kids really need a good spanking . I was spanked as I kid and niether my dad or I hold and grudges or regrets about it. When a child misbehaves in a serious manner, they need to be reminded that that behavior is unacceptable. I sometimes see kids today in places like church acting the same way I acted at that age. The only difference is that they get asked nicely to be quiet. I got the palm of my dad's hand across my rear end!!! Love your kids, but don't spoil them.

- HUNTER March 3, 2009 5:13PM

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Regarding Response

Corporal Punishment is Violence, Not Rhetoric

- From Center for Effective Discipline

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Interesting choice of evidence...

In the first line of an obvious DISCLAIMER it states, --a thorough understanding of whether and how corporal punishment affects children has not been reached. This little tidbit of info would infer that the naysayers are busy paddling without a boat beneath them.

As a parent of two grown children, I profess that spanking is NOT a panacea. But just like cough syrup, when used properly it can SAVE the life of a child. Spanking works early on when a parent is striving to communicate with a child that is bereft of ANY conception of codes of conduct OR most importantly--DANGER! My children were made to hearken to voice command and NEVER ignore the parent. To do so could bring about a sudden pain in the backside.

I believe that it is infinitely preferable to raise a child a little fearful than having the little free-spirited brat squished by a pickup truck in the parking lot of Whole Foods because he/she were used to being negotiated with.

Just my opinion. I could be wrong.

- BLZeebub August 19, 2008 6:56PM

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- I Agree
  
  Both my children are adults now. When they were young they knew better than do something I had instructed them not to do. As the father it was my job to correct both my kids when they did wrong and I kept my belt handy. Both my kids knew if they stepped out of line what would happen. My kids are grown now and are professional in their employment, I could not ask for two better adults and we sit around laughing about the times I whipped their butts when they did wrong.
  
  If all you super brains that profess to know child rearing better than the parents would shut your mouths, get married, have a couple of kids and try raising them using your warped understanding of raising a child, then you would know how important it is to smack them on the butt every now and then to get their undivided attention. By the way, if spanking is so wrong, then tell me why the prison system is filling up so fast with young people? Bet if dad and mom would have whacked them on their backsides a few times when they were younger, they would not be in prison.
  
  - shadow November 23, 2008 4:10AM
  
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  - Have you considered your lifestyle is not the only one?
    
    First, it's been proven that spanking for the most part just doesn't solve the problem. Spanking, like religion, only teaches children to fear punishment instead of teaching them why what they've done is wrong.
    
    I was personally raised never having been spanked or punished more than being denied certain things for a day. Am I in prison? No! In fact, the worst trouble I've ever gotten into is detention for forgetting homework. The reason is that I understand why certain things are wrong and have empathy, instead of fear of retribution. You tell me which is the better and more responsible method? Or is being lazy and just abusing your child to shut them up better?
    
    The reason our prisons are filling up probably has a little something to do with the massive rate at which our population is growing, greater poverty (a large source of crime), etc. We could always attribute it to spanking, but frankly, you've no evidence to back this up. I would think that teaching children WHY something is wrong would keep them out of jail better than to fear punishment. But that's just the logical conclusion.
    
    Lazy parenting is not the best parenting.
    
    - Blue Linchpin December 31, 2008 1:27PM
    
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    - wellll not in everyones case.
      
      I feel it depends how someone is raised for one. I was spanked when i was younger and it was proven that i learned my lesson to not ever do that thing again. And well you mentioned you werent raised being spanked, I was, and i as well am not in prison nor did i ever have detention, wasn't a bad student , or daughter. I never feared my parents, i always respected the punishment i was given, for my actions. So i wouldn't consider my parents had been 'lazy" they raised me very well and always wanted the best for us, and i'm never in any major sort of trouble from it. So i agree lazy parenting is not the best parenting, but disciplining their children isn't bad parenting at all.
      
      - curiousity taking over February 17, 2010 7:03PM
      
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