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You have probably heard the expression, "Spare the rod, spoil the child." Do you agree with it? Perhaps you were spanked as a kid. Was it appropriate? Some people see spanking as an outdated method of punishment or even child abuse, while others view a swat on the bottom as a parent's prerogative. Where do we draw the line when it comes to disciplining our children?
How's is it that now we can't read Proverbs and say, "Oh this is the book of wisdom....we should do what it says." Proverbs is just as important as the Gospel Records and has just as much authority as the books regarding Jesus.
Also, Jesus never had any children.....and why would he have disciplined children for wanting to see him? Now, if you're saying we spank kids for wanting things (like seeing Jesus) the I agree....but it's clear in the Bible what God thinks of things like rebellion (he calls it witchcraft actually).
- reb412 August 30, 2008 10:14AM
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Extracted from the website above:
The results of corporal punishment, as described in the Bible:
As mentioned above, from a conservative Protestant point of view, it is probable that these passages in Proverbs describe Solomon's own parenting style when he raised his son Rehoboam. The Bible subsequently records the negative effect that this parenting style had on his son. Rehoboam became a widely hated ruler after his father's death. At one point, he had to make a hasty retreat to Jerusalem to avoid being assassinated by his own people:
1 Kings 12:13-14: "And the king [Rehoboam] answered the people roughly, and forsook the counsel of the old men which they had given him, and spake to them after the counsel of the young men, saying, My father made your yoke heavy, but I will add to your yoke: my father chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions." (ASV)
1 Kings 12:18: "Then king Rehoboam sent Adoram, who was over the men subject to taskwork; and all Israel stoned him to death with stones. And king Rehoboam made speed to get him up to his chariot, to flee to Jerusalem." (ASV)
These same events are recorded in 2 Chronicles 10:6-19.
It can be argued that:
Most conservative Protestants believe that the Bible is completely accurate and inerrant - free of error.
The passages in Proverbs probably accurately and precisely portray Solomon's parenting style.
As an adult, Solomon's son Rehoboam, was vicious, unfeeling, inconsiderate to his subjects, had no regard for human rights, and was widely hated. He barely escaped assassination at the hands of his own people.
Perhaps the Bible's true message here is: If you don't want your children to grow up to be like Rehoboam, then you should not follow Solomon's parenting style, as it is accurately described in the Bible.
You should avoid using spanking or any other form of corporal punishment.
These conclusions seem to agree with recent studies which indicate that one out of every three boys has a genetic problem that will almost certainly cause him to engage in criminal or anti-social acts later in life if he is physically abused. It is unknown what level of corporal punishment will push these children over the edge and make them become violent and aggressive as adults."
- crunchymom November 5, 2008 12:28AM
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I just finished updating our corporal discipline link to include an opposing view response to this link:
www.religioustolerance.org/spankin8.htm
Our response is at this link:
www.creationists.org/corporal-discipline.html #eisegesis
I didn't read all of the replies to this posting, but the ones I did read all appeared to have one thing in common. The authors don't have a proper understanding of what the Bible actually has to say on the matter of corporal discipline. Our link will help to clarify some of the points. However, the best explanation we've ever seen anywhere is a videotape by Dr. S. M. Davis. We don't sell any products of any kind on our web site, but we do refer people to materials that we believe to be of high quality. This tape will set the record straight on this matter:
http://store.solvefamilyproblems.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=010285&Category_Code=Parenting
We have six children ages 5 - 24. We have used these tried and true methods of discipline. They not only work very well, but they have virtually none of the alleged side affects that the so called secular "experts" claim they do. In fact we regularly receive compliments on how well behaved and how mature our children are. We don't take the credit for that. We give all the credit to God because it was he who taught us the best way to train and discipline our children.
- creationists February 27, 2009 5:35PM
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Spanking and the Bible
- From Anonymous Expert
By Anonymous Expert - Parenting Expert
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Quoting the Bible?
Oh dear. Arguing from the Bible is an immediate sign to me that there will be little evidence and much dogma in your position. The Bible also promotes stoning children to death for cursing their parents, amongst other savoury practices.
- bpdlr
July 24, 2008 3:42AM
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Try again
The Bible does not PROMOTE stoning children. Try again.
- reb412 August 30, 2008 10:38AM
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Perhaps, perhaps not...
The classic reference which seems to be interpreted by some as promoting the stoning of children, is not completely clear about the age of the "son" mentioned. In all versions it specifically mentions the "son" eating too much and being a drunk. I will leave it to others to decide on this verses meaning.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21
18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.
Actually Deuteronomy is a mine field of stoning sons and daughters to death but again does not seem to relate the age of these people.
- Musfuut
October 26, 2008 3:29AM
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Evidence, please
"Do I need to tell you what they’ve all told me? I didn’t think so." Um, actually, some evidence would be helpful.
- bpdlr
July 24, 2008 3:44AM
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THEN WHY DO IT AT ALL
John Rosemond says that the rod in the Bible is symbolic rather than literal. I agree with him on that.If that is the case then why does he even think about hitting children when there is no Scriptural justification for it. He is following tradition rather than the Bible and tradition is not reliable.
- edwin p
August 13, 2008 9:54AM
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Symbolic
So if it's symbolic.....what is it symbolizing?
- reb412 August 30, 2008 10:37AM
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THE ROD IS SYMBOLIC
In answer to your question, the Rod as described in the Book of Proverbs stands for authority, not hitting. The word discipline comes from the same word disciple and means teaching. As a result, using the Rod means teaching as in pointing to lessons on a wall much like a teacher in a classroom. We must remember that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew, not English originally. Unlike the English Language, the Hebrew Language uses a lot of symbols, metaphors and figures of speech to describe things and therefore it must not always be taken literally in the same way as the English Language. When we try to interpret things in the way English does, we often arrive at the wrong conclusions. This is something we must remember if we want to gain a proper understanding of the Bible.
- edwin p
August 30, 2008 11:30AM
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Hebrew
That's interesting because I know Hebrew. And the word is literally "tree branch" which is mentioned almost 200 times in most texts (with different synonyms, like "tribe" or "group" of course). Only a handful of times is it mentioned metaphorically (i.e. Ge 49.10 mentions it as a position of authority). But in context, in whatever language, "sparing the stick" doesn't metaphorically translate well "sparing the authority". Or whatever other word you can think of. It's obviously talking about something physical.
Pr 23.14 makes it pretty clear:
"You shall beat him with the rod, and shall deliver his soul from sheol."
You're right, Hebrew definitely has some expressionist metaphors, hebrewism, etc. but this is not one of those times.
- reb412 August 30, 2008 11:45AM
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WISDOM FROM A JEWISH RABBI
The interpretation that the Rod refers to pointing to lessons on the wall was obtained by me from a quote by a Jewish Rabbi from Pennsylvania by the name of Larry Kaplan. Being a Rabbi, I'm quite sure that he would be familiar with OT Hebrew and customs. Also, to beat doesn't necessarily mean to hit. When the sun is beating down on a roof, is it striking it with a rod? No, it is shining down on it. In the same way, beating with a rod means coming across to your children in such a way that they will have no trouble paying attention to you and understanding what you have to say. By the way, were you aware that in Israel where the Sabbath is still faithfully observed, all corporal punishment of children is against the law?
- edwin p
August 31, 2008 7:00PM
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Redefining words
Yes "beating" can mean different things in English but as you mentioned before....the OT was written in Hebrew....and the word "beating" in English is the translation of a Hebrew word that COULD NOT be used with "the sun was beating down". Seriously. In other English translations, it's translated as "smite", "strike", etc. In my two different Spanish Bible translations, it's "castigarás con vara" and "herirás con vara" which is unmistakable. The Hebrew word is clear (so are all the other translations, frankly).
I'm not familiar with this rabbi but would question him on it (especially depending on what type of rabbi he is). Many of the rabbis I know don't believe the Old Testament holds any authoritative value to them and thus their interpretations are severely slanted (and usually have an agenda).
I'm glad you quoted a rabbi though. :-) It's more scholarly than what some of these people on this site have been doing..
Also, I didn't know that about Israel, thanks for pointing that out. Interesting.
- reb412 August 31, 2008 7:33PM
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Words can kill?
Let's look at the verse in context:
Proverbs 23:13
"Do not withhold correction from a child, for if you beat him with a rod, he will not die."
How many parents would be concerned with their children DYING from being talked to or given a time out? Obviously, this is talking about physical beating if he is discussing the physical outcome. Notice, however, that the child will NOT die from being beaten with a rod. The purpose of these verses is to tell parents that causing a child physical pain early on in life is a small price if it makes him a better person and saves his soul.
- nclark
January 25, 2009 9:32PM
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Complete Agreement
That is completely correct. Sometimes people take issues what out of porportion. They need to realize that many arguments are not literal - if fact the Bible has tons of parables, metaphors, and similies. There are actually quite a few examples in Luke 6 and 7.
- Edgin7
February 12, 2009 2:07PM
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Why Are Christians Following Old Testament Law, Anyway?
The Old Testament is full of laws and traditions not practiced by modern Christians. Why are defenders of spanking zeroing in on this one portion? Why do you pick and choose which sections of the Bible are mandatory and which ones aren't? Christ said he has a better way than an eye for an eye. Why don't you believe Him?
The Bible is not a valid arguement for striking a child.
- crunchymom September 18, 2008 4:06AM
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I'm sorry....
If you say that and I quote "The Bible is not a valid argument for striking a child." Then that leads me to conclude that you do not believe that God has a valid argument and should not be respected as much as a human being as far as opinions are concerned. Therefore I'm not sure how much respect I can have for your opinions if you don't have any respect for my Creator's. However, I am not one to pick and choose I follow simply the new testament and the portions of the old testament mentioned in the New Testament as still valid. I do this because of the book of Hebrews where it talks of the old covenant being done away with and the new one taking its place.
- eJones
January 25, 2009 10:20PM
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Spanking and the Bible
I believe the bible to be literal, but you are right some use it in the wrong way. I do not think spanking is a bad thing as long as it is used when you are not angry. To not spank is O.K. as well but there are times when maybe it should be instituted.
I think people who are spanked once in a while grow up to be better people.
- feeper
December 19, 2008 7:52AM
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Bible Language
I agree. . . people don't need to take things so literally. In fact, there are many metaphors that were used in the Bible. Where could metaphors begin but in the book that talks about all beginnings? A world, generations of people, many languages, figurative language used in languages, and yes, metaphors.
- Edgin7
January 25, 2009 9:58PM
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And if he curses at me
I'm going to throw rocks at him outside the front gates.
- quantummechanik
May 26, 2009 3:33PM
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One word
Blasphemy.
- eJones
June 13, 2009 7:45PM
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The Bible is Brutal anyway
The Christian Bible encourages killing those who do not believe the same thing you do, women as property, racism , slavery, homophobia, ignorance - this is just like justifying Spanking with the Koran or George Orwell's 1984.
Would you assault a disabled person on the street if they did something that is legal , does not hurt you but you do not like anyways. We need to rise above the temptation to assault others.
- JessicaSideways
October 7, 2009 3:18PM
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