Legalized Prostitution is a Failed Social Experiment
In a study of prostituted persons in the United States, 78 percent reported being threatened by a weapon during prostitution. 82 percent have been physically assaulted. 73 percent have been raped—and 59 percent have been raped five or more times. Some argue that a simple stroke of the legislative pen could eliminate this abuse and suffering by legalizing “the world’s oldest profession.” Such an argument is naïve at best.
One need only briefly review the facts to recognize the plight of prostituted women throughout the world. Many suffer grievous injustice; all are put at risk by the very nature of the trade. Even in jurisdictions where prostitution has been legalized, the welfare of prostituted persons has not improved. Moreover, the general welfare suffers.
Legalizing prostitution hurts those prostituted. Research suggests as many as 9 out of 10 prostituted women self-report a desire to escape the industry. A nine-country study found that 95% of prostitutes experienced sexual harassment on the job that would have been prosecuted under U.S. laws in any other circumstance. In Germany, 59% of prostituted individuals believe that their legal status does not increase their safety from sexual assault. Likewise, in Nevada’s legal brothels, prostitutes are not protected against physical, verbal, and emotional abuse. By definition, prostitution involves the purchase of sexual power over another—a practice that is inherently exploitative and naturally fosters sexual violence.
Legalization instantly legitimizes the pimps’ and traffickers’ system of manipulation and emotional dependence. Although many hoped that legalizing prostitution would eliminate the abusive role of pimps, over half of the prostitutes in Nevada’s legal brothels are controlled by outside pimps. Instead of bringing justice, legalization implicitly endorses their actions. In addition, ex-prostitute Jody Williams has explained that as the government fills its coffers with tax revenue from this abusive industry, the state becomes a hidden third pimp.
Legalizing prostitution also hurts the general public. In regions where prostitution has been legalized, the demand for commercial sex has increased. Increased demand has led to an increase in sex trafficking into these regions, the growing specialty of national and international organized crime groups. The best known example of legalized prostitution—Amsterdam’s red-light district—has been identified by Dutch police as the center of some of the world’s largest human trafficking and money-laundering rings. In addition, the normalization of prostitution in places like Nevada increases the occurrence of rape. In Las Vegas, women are three times more likely to be raped than in New York City. Perhaps most disturbing is the fact that legalized prostitution sends a message to the community that individuals can be bought and dominated for personal pleasure.
The results of Sweden’s recent approach to the issue of prostitution demonstrate a compelling alternative to the bankrupt idea of legalizing “sex work,” which even Amsterdam officials acknowledge has failed. Recognizing that prostitution victimizes those in the system, Sweden has shifted the focus of felony charges onto the buyers of sex, while directing social services to those prostituted. This policy has nearly eliminated sex trafficking into the country, and domestic prostitution has not increased. Nevada’s policy of legalization has had precisely the opposite effect.
Legalized prostitution is a failed social experiment. Research suggests that for every woman who might actually choose “sex work” over other available forms of employment, untold numbers are being driven into prostitution through force, fraud, coercion, or the ravaging effects of poverty, discrimination, and previous abuse. To legitimize the commodification of human beings is not only ineffective policy, it is an unconscionable abdication of the state’s responsibility to protect its citizens and promote the value of human life.
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It seems like we as a society effed this one up real bad. Getting paid to do something is a job . Jobs help the economy and individuals. Also people can sleep with as many people as they want for free but when you include money it is illegal ? The only difference is money. Honestly if you want crime down legalize it. That way you can have professional businesses that can protect customer and worker
If a person wants to do something with their own body, why do we interfere? The main moral argument is that we are somehow protecting women--how are we protecting them by forcing an entire profession into the alleys? The illegality itself is what makes it dangerous. THe main reason we view prostitutes with disgust is because we have been trained to over millenia by the very hypocrites who use them most. A woman gets paid money to have sex with people--if that is what she wants, how is it worse than being a bouncer in a bar? Or a security guard? or whatever any of us do? The only thing that makes it shameful is it's illegality. Picture the view of a prohibition era gangster, versus a legitimate distillery owner today--same job, the only difference is being forced into the alleys and fringes of society , to do what could be a lucrative and respectable job.
I think your comparison with the legitimate vs. illegal distillery has some merit. But most people see sex workers as disgusting, depraved people mostly due to the fact that they provide sexual services outside of a committed relationship. And they think even less of the people who use such services. And this country has a very puritan attitute towards sex. The fact that it is illegal certainly does not help matters, but the people who refer to sex workers as "whores" and other such deregatory terms will continue to think the same way even if prostitution was legal and took place in fancy brothels or the like.
While I do agree that people should be allowed to sell sexual services, providing that both parties are willing and conscenting adults, there are limits on what we can do with our bodies. So the argument that "If a person wants to do something with their own body, why do we interfere?" does not always hold water and is rather easily knocked down. One could not, for example, sell their organs or use their body to block entrance to a public place or use their body in a way that would cause harm to another.
The main reason that prostitution should be legal is that there is no good logical reason not to do so. As stated above, our resistance to legalization is deeply rooted in our views on sex and sexual roles, particularly those of women . Everyone knows that women who "put out" are the worst kind of depraved moral deficient beings imaginable, right? So almost all arguments against prostitution can be boiled down to the fact that sex is involved, and people don't like sex being performed outside of a committed relationship. They see it as harmful to the parties involved and to society in general.
But with all that said, I have no doubt that prostitution will never be legalized in my lifetime. Any public official who supported it would be committing political suicide . And this is somewhat strange because if you look at polls about 60 to 70 percent agree that it should be legal (just "Google Legalize Prostition Poll").
that prostitution is bad for a society proves how depraved it has become.
Ah, the classic circular argument. You start by assuming that prostitution is depraved. You then proceed to declare any society that even questions the depravity of prostitution to be depraved simply because they are questioning the depravity of prostitution.
Any questions?
Yeah, that's pretty much the worst reasoning I've ever heard in my entire life.
The expert's comparison of New York to Las Vegas is null. Prostitution is illegal in Clark County. There is no evidencethat shows that legalized prostitution does not increase the likelihood of sexual assault.
Do any of the National Coalition’s points carry water ? I just don’t see it.
People engaged in illegal activities tend to be prayed upon by criminals is not naïve, it it’s a fact of life. Making the activity legal won’t make it safe, but at least those people will feel entitled to police protection.
The linkage between legal prostitution and human trafficking is a clear case of facts not in evidence. More likely, those engaged in human trafficking would continue to operate illegally, by not complying with any required supervision or registration.
Rape and sexual assault are crimes most heinous in normal society . The degree diminishes within the context of the sex trade to commercial issues more akin to fraud, theft, and physical assault, still crimes, but not as monstrous.
Pimp is clearly a pejorative term, but not so different in meaning from boss or marketing agent. Just like in other industries, some have better management styles and provide better work environments than others.
Money laundering is a service needed by criminals to recycle their ill-gotten gains. Tax payers find normal banking cheaper and more useful.
In free societies the people’s tastes shape government activities. In repressive governments, the law is used to limit people’s choices to the tastes of the powerful.
This argument in opposition to legalization of prostitution is laughable.
Let's break down your points, shall we?
1- Prostitutes, even legal ones are subject to being threatened, assaulted, or raped. That may be true. But it is equally true of many other jobs such as store clerks, cab drivers, and just about any other job that requires (or at least allows from time to time) one on one interaction without outside observation. Would you suggest criminalizing those jobs as well?
2- Research suggests that as many as 9 out of 10 prostitutes wish to leave the industry. Even were I to grant that point, which frankly I do not, I wonder what percentage of garbage haulers, or cops, or any other profession would, if they could, leave their career or choice. Even if true, it is irrelevant to the question of legalization.
3- Pimps have not yet been eliminated, even in areas with legal prostitution. OK, if you say so. So what? I would postulate that with universal legalization, it's only a matter of time until the pimp role is history. And when a prostitute need not feel legal ramifications simply for what they do, filing a legal complaint becomes a viable option. And all of us, at least those who pay taxes as required by law , regardless of our profession have to deal with the hidden third pimp that is Uncle Sam.
4- Areas of legal prostitution have seen increased demand. Duh! If I have a choice of seeing a legal prostitute on the west side of the street, or an illegal one on the east side, I'm going to the west side every time. As long as areas of legal prostitution are islands amongst oceans of criminal prostitution, they will attract increased demand. When it's universal, no such phenomenon will occur.
5- Women in Las Vegas are 3x more likely to be raped than women in NYC. Even assuming this ascertain were true, it's irrelevant to this argument. Prostitution is not legal in Vegas, or NYC, so any disparity to rape statistics has to be, by definition, due to other circumstances. Perhaps because Vegas is a 24x7 party, people are consuming more alcohol than usual, and otherwise letting loose. I strongly suspect that many of the so-called rapes you referred to only became rape the next morning after second thoughts set in.
Your arguments are off point, irrelevant, and unconvincing. That you believe society has the right to tell women what they are and are not allowed to do with their sexuality says a great deal about your organization, and none of it good.
Prosecuting prostituted persons does nothing to interdict demand. It only reduces supply, providing incentive for criminals to continue providing new sex workers through illegal and abusive means. Sweden has exactly the right idea: go after the sex buyers.
but prostitution is legal in sweden it is a very bad system, and it does not work
It is already illegal to hire a prostitute in the US, it's called solicitation.
Monetary compensation for sexual access is the rule in more ways than one in the vast majority of the remotely-or-more-free world. It seems to be a wildly successful social experiment.
In fact, in the less-than-remotely-free world, the main difference is that the abuse of women is accepted as a norm, or there is no compensation, or both.
Here we have labeled a particular form of "the world's oldest profession" in the most capitalist context because that makes it easiest to characterize negatively. The fact is obvious that its the nature of class economics that brings the worst in the sex trade. This is seen in every other prohibition based legal campaign, particularly those with victimless crimes.
Of course there are a lot of negative aspects in the sex trade - its an illegal activity which puts it in the domain of criminals; historically criminals are terrible at HR management, long term sustainability, or creating nonhostile work environments.
Hehe, we should make it a government service. Most would agree that the government is mostly good for screwing us, and the rest are likely to agree that government is at least better than the crimeworld at providing a non-hostile work environment with sustainable equal oppurtunity and health and conform standards.
Laws making anything that gives people pleasure illegal are doomed to failure,as proven by everything we have ever tried to prohibit using federal laws. All you do is drive the activities underground or into a black market trade. You cannot force your morals on anyone,you can tell them about it,but you can't
legislate morality.
Should prostitution be legal ? Yes.
Should slavery be legal? No.
Your arguments conflate several facts. A woman's personal decision to engage in prostitution should never be criminalized. That is a decision which many women freely make. Even if that is incomprehensible to you, you have no right to criminalize that decision and by doing so exacerbate every one of the risks, to the woman, that you attribute to prostitution.
Should thugs be allowed to ensnare women into prostitution then coerce them to work while stealing the profit of their labor. Never. These slavers must be prosecuted to the full extent of rational laws. Despite your misrepresentations, that is the position of the Dutch government. It is also the position of every government that truly supports in human rights.
As in the other social issues that are being turned into political wedges to divide voters from one another --- i.e. abortion , euthanasia , drug use , etc. --- the question is: "Who decides?" If you think that you have the right to make those decisions for other citizens, we are in fact on opposing sides.
Our forefathers fought wars so we could be free. So let's really be free, shall we? Free to choose our own destinies.
IF: "Even in jurisdictions where prostitution has been legalized, the welfare of prostituted persons has not improved." (according to the only "no" side to the argument here)
THEN: Does it really make sense to add criminal charges and jail time to the list of welfare problems these people have?
No.
Liberty is a far more rare and precious commodity than safety or fairness, and we ought not be so quick to sacrifice it in order to obtain the others. "Those who would trade their essential liberty to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin. What old Ben forgot to say is that those who would do this not only DESERVE neither, but will also HAVE neither. That's the nature of liberty. Having it means some people suffer. The tragic thing is...not having it means that MORE people suffer, and to an even greater degree.
Vices are not crimes. Morals should never be legislated. One man's vice is another man's virtue, or possibly even sacrament. When one group sets itself up as moral arbiters for the whole of society , it makes itself supreme dictator, and denies the rights of all those who do not follow the "one right way as dictated by our creed." That's just as bad whether one man does it, as in the manner of a dictatorship, or whether it is done by many people over a single person, as in the manner of a modern democracy .
Again, I'm neither for nor against this. But there are indeed instances where it is necessary to legislate morality. For example, it wasn't that long ago, even in our nation's history, where it was not at all uncommon for a man to take a bride as young as 14 years old, sometimes even younger. However, I don't think many today would argue that it is OK for a grown man to have sexual relations with a 14 year old girl, even if she gives her consent.
I do see the difference though, so I'm not arguing that point. To be honest, I'm just nitpicking one thing you said, or playing the devil's advocate, if I may. Sorry about that.
That is one of my favorite quotes by Ben Franklin, by the way. My very favorite, though, not surprisingly is "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." :-P
Joey, I see your point, but I don't know if I would call legalized prostitution a human rights issue. Maybe a morality issue. And maybe the U.S. is wrong on this one, I don't know. And to insinuate that the U.S. doesn't support human rights is a bit unfair, in my (not so) humble opinion as well.
Our record is not perfect, but neither is any country's. But I dare say our record is up there with the best.
As I have stated in other threads about this issue, I am not a supporter of legalized prostitution, but I really don't care if they do legalize it. I would only say make sure the arguments make sense and that both sides present factual arguments. Then let the people decide.
Lagerhead: I appreciate your desire to see that "both sides present factual arguments." I am in total agreement with that. It is a factual argument that, in those instances where a woman of her own volition chooses to engage in prostitution, and is then forced to face the humiliation of arrest and the threat or actual suffering of going to jail, at the hands of police who our society has turned into armed clergymen, that is a violation of her human rights.
The people can decide what they will, that women in fact those thousands of women who daily make that decision and face that denial of their human rights at the hands of intrusive amateur moralists who refuse to see situations other than their ugliest fantasies, are victims of this moral myopia. Again, in fact, unjust laws against legitimate prostitution, deny police and prosecutors the discretion to enforce intelligently written laws that would protect women from the, all too real, abuses that these faux protectors of women claim to be the whole picture. That focus on abuse, obscures the true nature of freely chosen prostitution, while it provides us with unjust and less enforceable laws that, in the end, create gray areas that protect the predators.
This is part of a long-standing pattern of the abuse of women, in the name of "protecting" them. The extreme example of that exists in Saudi Arabia and is currently enforced by the whips of the Taliban. I choose to be on the other side of that argument.
Just noticed you're from Redwood City. Great town. My aunt and uncle have lived there for 20+ years. That's all.
Thanks for keeping it civil.
Not allowing prostitution is about as preposterous as not allowing people to work in sales. An argument can easily be made that many salespeople are prostitutes at a psychological level (just go visit any car dealership) and that endless repetition of their unhealthy lifestyle endangers the fabric of civil society .
Of course there are levels of prostitution (some products sell themselves), but securing the ability to sell such products is hypercompetitive, and inevitably, commissions/margins for sellers of such products are reduced because they are such an "easy sale". Reduced margins return an otherwise balanced salesperson back to being a "whore" who must become aggressive to sell to someone who may otherwise be undecided about the product in question.
By that analysis, any producer that aggressively pursues exacting supply/demand yields (easier than ever with modern ERP systems) eventually turns their sales representatives into prostitutes.
While we aren't talking about sales reps, how is their mental hygiene less important than that of a sex worker? Doesn't this mental hardship in salespeople adversely affect society as a whole in a manner that is far more pervasive? There are orders of magnitude more sales reps in the world than there are sex workers, so any amount of adverse effect reverberates through society with far greater overall damage.
Yet, society continues to focus exclusively on sex workers as the only people forced into prostitution when it is abundantly clear that there is a massive class of white-collar workers who are also prostitutes. To allow one to ply their trade without allowing the other is class-based employment discrimination and is obviously illegal.
What we need is better mental health counseling for all kinds of folks in society, both sex workers and car salesmen alike. And if citizens are found subjugating others to such work (whether they are sales managers or pimps alike), they are the ones that deserve to be the target of the judicial system, not the ones who pursue an occupation because it makes sense for their unique circumstances.
Equating prostitution and sales, in other than a sarcastic sense, is ludicrous. Nobody goes to college to study to be a prostitute. And those in sales have to compete to get those jobs and maintain strict quotas to maintain them. And if they exceed their goals, they are often rewarded with elaborate dinners, trips, trophies, and other prizes.
When's the last time you saw a little girl look at a prostitute and say, "That's what I wanna do when I grow up"? Never, that's when. And when's the last time a pimp said, "You have exceeded my expectations this year. Take two weeks and go to Jamaica, on me. Oh, and here's a gold necklace you can wear on your way. And I almost forgot, here's your cash bonus for spending that extra time on your back."
And your absurd argument, if it can even be called that, suggesting that those in sales suffer the same kind of mental problems as prostitutes is insulting to both sales professionals and prostitutes. People in sales are not regularly raped (in the literal sense, before you go there) by their clients. And if they don't produce, while they may lose their job, they won't be threatened physically, or severely beaten.
This must be a joke. No reasonable person could actually believe what you type. If you do, I would seriously suggest you see a mental health professional as soon as possible, because you need help.
Actually, some of the sexworkers i know knew quite early what they wanted to do. As a little girl I saw a picture of a courtesan an thought i wanted to be like her- beatiful, intelligent and seductive. I didn't know much about sex then, so i wouldn't have thought of choosing it as a profession. Comparing sales to prostitution is not far-fetched at all, and the ones who work as prostitutes, especially the ones who have also experience as a salesperson, know this is true. Of course nobody studies it, because it's not accepted publically. But if sexwork was recognized as the valuable work it is, a degree would probably take just as long as other studies...after all, most of us get good at what we do with more experience.
While I didn't agree with everything"orangesauce" had to say, he did make some good points. And while your counter appears valid on the surface, a closer look reveals the fallacy. While it is true that prostitutes are rarely rewarded and often abused by their pimps, those in illegal sales ( drugs ) are often mistreated as well. Nobody wants to grow up to be a drug dealer, they are often abused and robbed, and nobody wants to go to college to be a drug dealer. But when it becomes legal , suddenly all of that changes. Bartenders are treated pretty well, despite the fact that they are selling drugs, and pharmacists receive all of the benefits above described. The fact that abuses occur when illegal goods are sold cannot be denied, but that is hardly a reason to keep them illegal. If anything, it is an argument for legalization!
Now bartenders and crack dealers are the same thing. Hmm. Well, now you've really changed my mind.
That's an appeal to ridicule, a logical fallacy. Since alcohol was once an illegal drug, bartenders and drug dealers do provide examples of people who provide a similar service, but on different sides of the law . The differences demonstrate what could happen if prostitution was also legalized.
His argument is not absurd. He's stating that they are providing a supply to a demand, just as in any other service or sales industry. The parallel is clear.
He's not implying that sales associates have mental health problems, let alone the same ones as prostitutes. He says only that anybody is capable of having mental health problems and that they should be treated instead of persecuted.
Lastly, we don't need therapists to treat our unbiased reasoning.
"While we aren't talking about sales reps, how is their mental hygiene less important than that of a sex worker? Doesn't this mental hardship in salespeople adversely affect society as a whole in a manner that is far more pervasive? There are orders of magnitude more sales reps in the world than there are sex workers, so any amount of adverse effect reverberates through society with far greater overall damage."
That doesn't imply that sales reps suffer from mental health problems similar to sex workers? "Mental hardship" is in that quote, so it's not as much implication as it is an outright statement. He also continues by asking if salespeople suffer "in a manner that is far more pervasive[.]" So if anything, he's implying they are worse off!
And your implication that only those who agree with your logic are unbiased is in itself biased. It's amazing to me how you can present an argument, completely ignoring one side of it, and then claim to be unbiased. It is the very definition of bias. (bias - A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment.) So if you ignore the evidence, for example, that even in areas where prostitution is legal that there is an illegal human trafficking problem, guess what? You're biased.
You are ignoring the same thing as Orangesauce. Like I said more than once, but apparently need to repeat, I really DO NOT CARE if prostitution is legalized, but to use those arguments and ignore the realities of the profession is not only dishonest, but unfair to those who might choose to practice the profession.
So if anything, my mind is more open. While I may disagree, I am not pretending that I didn't say something that I clearly did. And I'm not ignoring the position that there may be benefits from legalizing the world's oldest profession. But at the same time, if you make an argument that is clearly nonsensical, I will reply appropriately, albeit with an open mind.
Many of the "implications" you pick up are really just your own inferences that were in no way meant by us.
I still stand by my original positition that orangesauce never, in any way, stated that prostitutes and salespeople had the same mental health issues.
I never said that any of those who agree/disagree with me are biased/unbiased... I was simply responding to your statement that anyone who harbors the same opinion as orangesauce did is in need of "help" for some sort of mental health issue.
Lastly, I did not ignore any piece of an argument. I did not even criticize or evaluate the pieces of the arguments presented by you or Orangesauce. All I said was that our argument is not absurd and that we are not in need of mental help for believing so.
You need to let up a bit on the hostility and assumptions you make about other people. Open your mind up a bit.
Tell ya what? You pretend you/he never said those things, despite what is right in front of you and everyone else in black and white, and I'll pretend that those things which you/he did not say actually make sense. How's that for an open mind?
In the words of Ren and Stimpy: "Happy happy joy joy joy!"
they do not have the SAME mental health issues. same. same. same. my goodness do you love to feel right.
That's exactly what I have been saying. They do not have the same issues. So where exactly is the problem with my reading?
I do apologize for my ambiguity...
*Orangesauce said that they do not have the SAME mental health issues.
RE: Your original response to Orangesauce's first post when you said "And your absurd argument, if it can even be called that, suggesting that those in sales suffer the same kind of mental problems as prostitutes is insulting to both sales professionals and prostitutes."
If you're gonna be a nitpicking punk, at least reread the thing first.
Look, I was trying to keep it civil, but you have shown that you cannot be reasoned with, so let me make this clear. You're an idiot. You can't present an argument, and if you could you couldn't do it without ignoring fact. Anybody who has half a brain can see what Orangesauce said clearly. Just because you pretend it didn't happen, doesn't make it so. I could go on, but why waste my time? This is my last post on this subject, which I'm really not that passionate about in first place. Have fun drooling on your keyboard.
You are indeed a lagerHead.
It is clear that you are unable to acknowledge that anybody aside from yourself has the ability to reason. I should hope that one day you have the capacity to transcend petty insults towards those who disagree with you. Maybe one day your maturity will catch up with your intelligence. Best of luck!
... the most despicable profession "worse than a whore" was a nurse.
No kidding. In som periods in the middle ages, being a woman who cared for the sick and dying was held in such societal contempt and scorn that after having been a nurse, these women could find no husband, had to live apart, where not allowed in churches and weren't even attractive as whores. A woman became a nurse if she had no alternatives and was not pretty enough to be a whore. They were regarded with the same loathing as people who buried the dead, streetcleaners, sewage collectors (urine was a critical component in staining clothes - don't ask) and dogcatchers.
But that changed. Right now being a nurse has a wholly different meaning. After religions appropriated the care for the sick, we started seeing the nursing profession in the light on highly disciplined, self-sacrificing nuns who gave and gave, under strict patriarchal supervision.
The same can happen with sex workers, as soon as this business is placed in some form of societal context. Exclusion and scorn is a form of abuse and should not just be silly or counterproductive - it should be il;illegal. Persecuting prostitution should be more illegal than prostitutes.
I can easily see this turn around. Right now a new generation is emergez that glamorizes pornography . Yes, the days are quite near when young girls and buys look with mezmerized starstruck eyes at a pornstar 'when she does anal' and have the earnest intent to emulate them every step of the way.
I am a nurse and what I do comes through education , compassion and character. I would hope we would not equate nurses with prostitutes as we would have to open up a college for prostitutes. Would one be able to get a government grant to attend prostitution school ?
Probably one reason nurses were put on such a low pedestal in the past was their becoming contaminated with incurable illnesses which spread rampantly in those days. TB, Bubonic plague, almost every disease was a death sentence as there was no antibiotics or other medication .
... prostitutes gravitate towards a certain degree of desperation, or even opportunism. But what makes you think that ANY professional group would, under the same degree of societal marginalisation, have the same negative attitudes. As for prostitution schools , they exist even though you don't hear about them, and do not receive or need government recognition. The students of this (czech) private school tend to retire in their mid 30s.
But can I conclude from your position you look down on prostitutes? Can you unambiguously say that nurses are better than prostitutes? Is there something inherently sinister about prostitutes, aside from the context of societal contempt?
Bear in mind , nurses are under enormous pressure and by and large nurses are not the nicest people to be exposed to. Nurses are overworked, rude and sloppy. There is increasing hostility to nurses and physicians in general. Are you sure that the previous level of prestige physicians and nurses enjoyed might not change in the future.
What if in the future very few people are desperate and prostitution becomes a vocational profession that not just requires skill - you need to be good to be one. Not just pretty, but really nice company. Under such conditions prostitution might very well become a respectable career choice.
I am a woman and I conclude that women 's rights should be protected. I certainly do not look down on anyone, except the men who take advantage of these women. I am woman, so I am a part of all women. I care for the women who are hurting because of the abuse inflicted upon them by men who use them and contribute to their low self esteem.
I am not a nurse for prestige as most of my work the average person would not think of doing. I serve and care for others in their most vulnerable moments and if I am kind and compassionate while I am doing my job, that makes me a good nurse. Attending nursing school does not teach you how to care. I hope that I am nice company because the Lord guides me in how I treat people and gives me the words and actions to ease their suffering. My skills are a blessing to others, not something to bring gratification but comfort to the hurting.
God Bless, alayna
I could introduce you to a friend I knew ten years ago. You'd be instantly surprised - tall, leggy and elvish blonde, alluring jaw-lines and cheekbones, and eyes to drown in - she looked stunning with a hint of make-up. She started school studying a variant of astronomy no less, but switched to business economics in the mid 1980s. She needed money and sought out a german agency where she could work, and she had a tempestuous power exchange relationship with her pimp/mistress for nearly 6 years. So now she speaks five languages, and when you spot her you'd think, "old money" - real classy. After she turned 30, her secret was more or less out - she had for years prostituted herself, and even though she was no average hooker (empowered success stories are still rare in this business) she was very clear to anyone who asked (politely) - she liked the sex and excitement. She liked the 1000+ euro she got for the average night out in town partying and night in bed afterwards. It is very easy if you *have* to smile.
When watching television and you'd spot a destination on the planet, she had been in every single one I could care mention - in europe, middle east and america. Even once or twice in asia. She got rich of it too and you can easily find her with some casual research in her boutique in Amsterdam. Only thing that bothers her now is a nasty problem with the anti- fur people. She is a very happy human being.
You so casually (and revealingly) shower 'those women ' with uninvited scorn for being predated upon by 'those men'. In my friends case this is unwarranted, even though the cliche is that the women in this business are poor, desperate and deceitful; while the men are perverts and cheaters. I'll give you another cliche - the wives of men who visit whores routinely overflow in passive-aggressive contempt, are secretly jealous of the courage of career-prostitutes, are generally too insecure with their own looks to feel sexually liberated or empowered. But what is most humiliating to all those angry wives of men who visit whores - is the realization that those 'monthers' (guys who visit a key escort once a month, often for years at a time) get a few hours of rather amazing intimacy and openness and *attention* from these prostitutes. Don't ask me how I know all this, because you already know, but prostitutes do in fact have often very open, uninhibited, passionate and emotionally fulfilling relationships with their clients. The 'transaction' is a blank check for a guy to say 'put you ass up a little... stroke it like that... yes more tongue' - which makes it all amazingly easy. A guy can say, "stand there, I want my friend to see you in the light when you dance". This makes business often amazingly easy for a career escort - no barriers, no filters, no shields in what they are supposed to do. The guy goes for what he wants because he pays for it. It is amazingly uncomplicated, especially if the price is over 500 euro. I can guarantee you - to serve in this way can be acutely spiritual.
If that isn't caring, or blessing or nourishing, I don't know. As a prostitute you get access to mending broken lives.
And as a message to you - you do not need to be a catwalk model in this business. Escorts and prostitutes and 'models' may not enjoy the blessings on that "the Lord" franchise you so condescendingly invoke, it all generates a decent income and no small amount of satisfaction. Unless you look like a horse - why don't you give it a try once? Just go to a different city, wear the appropriate clothes in an appropriate bar. If you are a nurse you understand people enough to score a client in less than an hour. Prepare a little by getting a hotel where the manager doesn't mind, and give the guy what twice he wants. Slip him a card and he'll be emailing you once a month.
And afterwards stare at how easy that money was and who took advantage of who? Look in the mirror afterwards. You will very likely to not cry afterwards - rather you will giggle.
Remember - it isn't politicians who want to make sure prostitution is illegal . It is the politicians wives.
http://fora.tv/2009/09/29/Republican_Gomorrah_Max_Blumenthal
Your revelation of men finding emotional fulfillment (though temporary) in a prostitute is neither surprising, nor does it prove "caring, or blessing or nourishing."
So, let's say a man and woman are married, and the wife feels insecure in their relationship sexually - I know! Let's rent him someone else to give him sex and temporarily prop him up emotionally... that will definitely improve the wife's sense of security and improve the marriage .
Besides, why should he go through all the inconvenience of loving, honoring and cherishing his wife to make their relationship more secure when he can "fulfill" himself for a few bucks.
Obviously, the wife's security and the happiness of their marriage aren't your concern (afterall, those don't pay your bills), but excuse me if I fail to see how your services are truly helping anyone.
And, just in case you are wondering, I am not a bitter wife. My marriage is very healthy and happy.
All prostitution does is create an alternate reality by which men can avoid doing the work it takes to have deep, healthy, fulfilling relationships. In the end, they lose out (their fault, of course - I'm not excusing them), their wives suffer, and you profit. If you honestly believe that's the definition of "caring, or blessing or nourishing" I'm really sorry that you haven't had anyone truly care for, bless or nourish you.
I notice two things
- you have different expectations, or projections, about sexuality when it comes to women and men. Men 'fulfill' themselves in your description, whereas women are predisposed to needing 'deep, healthy, fulfilling relationships' and if they do not, wives 'suffer'. You project women spouses as innate victims in this equation, and strongly suggest that prostitutes gravitate towards predatory, exploitative, foreign and probably unnatural.
This prejudice is a cultural artifact. It is contingent and could have been completely different if society had evolved only a slight bit different. One could argue that prostitution would be an evolved adaption to imperfections of society. One could say that 'the natural state' of relationships, especially when it comes to having children and productive longterm financial stability, requires an equivalent institution of marriage .
This may be correct - modern society requires solid couples, but I live in a society where these are not as paradigmatic, and I can see many examples where there would be variant roles to the stereotype of 'father', ' mother ', 'child' and 'whore'. Consider the 'extended family' where many men and women enter a contractual engagement, have whatever emotional (and sexual) needs fulfilled by a supply and demand mechanic of such an extended tribe, and raise whatever children they have between them. I'd go as far as claim that such an arrangement, if entered in by remarkably mature people, would be far more societally productive than the current marital straight jacket.
I can name you a european president and his wife who already practice this, more or less publicly.
For starters, I have seen some evidence that women can be far more empowered than you give them credit. It isn't always a selfish, lazy man who chases his 'despicable animal lusts' causing sexual disharmony in a marriage. Worse, what happens isn't always cause to blame either, man or wife. Some accidents are just that and not sins.
A functional model would be to train prostitutes as sexual therapists, and require them to follow a professional edict akin to a hypocratic oath. This is not unique in history. This idea might be offensive or alien to you, for whatever reason, but it might function better than the mess of lies we currently have. But yes, I'd rather have a society where every man and woman had the physical and emotional qualities to satisfy his or her own needs, establish robust economic independence and leave any of the sexes not looking over the fence, or do so without causing heart ache and angst.
Worse, it might first need more and more dissatisfied people to pile up outside the debris of conservative societal models before the current system collapses. That would be fine with me - we are seeing the collapse of many formerly 'eternal' fabrications around us every day ( catholicism ! Jay!). You can always lay blame with those 'who weren't properly cared fore or nourished', and yes, 'blaming the victim' for all kinds of 'societal ills' is a tradition too.
There is one problem with that - you cannot leverage me into a victim role.
I know where you are coming from. I am 60 years old, so I probably should stay where I am. I likely would not make much money .
I don't look down on people; I consider the source. Each one must make his own choice how to live his life. Choice is the key word. We are free agents.
If you don't want to see a sex worker, don't. If you have a friend that has a problem with infidelity, don't blame it on sex workers, help them.
Your prohibitionist fantasy is a marginalizing charade that can make anything dangerous. Legalize it, tax it, regulate it. Thousands of years of history show it works! But it's not going away because you want it to, that's for sure. You'll need a smarter plan than that.
To be fair, I don't know any strung out sex workers that get beaten up, or even any that have pimps. Most of them have college degrees, many of them advanced degrees. They are artists, writers and attorneys, and their work is entertaining and fun. They *like* it, they have time and money to fill passports before they expire, and their clients buy them "gold necklaces" because they enjoy spending the time together. They spend their time being the people that we all wish we had the time to be. They are courtesans, and their clients benefit from their service and care.
And yes, it happens that a little girl looks at a well-mannered and beautiful woman with poise and confidence and says "I want to grow up like her", while the little girl's parents and the sex worker roll their eyes a bit with a wry smile as if to say "if you only knew".
But maybe that's where your vitriol comes from, maybe you slave away for a buck and don't feel like it's ever enough to do what they do. That's understandable, but don't project your issues on other people or make baseless accusations against them. It's inappropriate for this forum and an unhealthy habit to have. Just sayin'.
As for the salespeople, I don't need to say any more, the stereotype is prevalent. Maybe someone in your family, maybe even you are a salesperson and you are offended. Pick any profession, to some degree we are all prostitutes, wiggling our ass a little bit here, dealing with demeaning crap there. If you are offended, separate it from the message and substitute in some other occupation that gets your guile. The message is economic discrimination of any kind is counter to the principles of any laissez-faire society , and if we are willing to protect one, we should protect all.
I'm glad that in the fantasy you live in women routinely get their B.S. in Whoreology and then go on get their doctorate in Whoris Prudence. But in the real world, that just isn't the case. While you might be able to point out a few high class call girls with degrees, to pretend that is the norm is crazy. And to ask anyone to believe it is even worse.
And while a little girl may point out a high class call girl, noting her expensive clothes and jewelry and say I want to be like that, she is idolizing the clothes. Not the time spent on her back with fat old rich guys panting and sweating all over them. She would never point to a crach-whore lying in an alley after her last fix and
So go ahead and live in your fantasy world where there are no victims and prostitutes are the high class call girls peddled by Heidi Fleiss and the likes. Where there are no women brutalized and living on the edge, doing whatever they have to get their next fix.
Keep telling yourself that women do not get kidnapped and sold into sex trades. Two of my wife's cousins had exactly that happen, but happily her family was able to raise enough money to buy them back. That's right, they bought two human beings. But if it makes you feel better, pretend it doesn't happen.
Just don't ask us to live in your little pretend world. While it may make you more comfortable, most of us don't even know how to get there.
And for the record, I really don't care if they legalize prostitution. Personally, I think it's wrong, but if you want to sell your body like a cheap car, I really couldn't care less. And if you want to be with women who have been with hundreds of other men (or vice versa) then more power to you. I'm just saying don't pretend there is no down side.
All work comes with it's own inherant risks-- ANd if prostitution was legal , one could make a good living at it, and most of the risks in that field would be instantly marginalized. The fact that nobody sets out to be a hooker is kind of a strange argument--how many set out to be garbage men? Or insurance salesmen? Or textile workers ? Secretary at a discount sunglasses distributor? "golly, when I grow up I wanna run the dough-extruder at a pretzel factory" Did you set out as a child to do what YOU do for a living? If so, you are one of the few. A woman finding herself faced with prostitution is a sad thing, but why is it an illegal thing? Why is it considered a worse thing than begging? The moral objections here are simply thousands of years of indoctrination, rather than logical argument. The basis of capitalism is "find a need and fill it" women have something most men want, and if stats are right, it's something a huge proportion of men would are willing to pay for. what's the problem?
Sorry to hear that about your family. Now let's bring you back to reality.
Your are projecting your experiences on the rest of society , presuming they are universal fact, and making personal attacks on anyone that disagrees with you. Just because your wife's cousins have issues with crack cocaine and got involved with the wrong people does not mean that you are going to be able to will "the oldest profession" out of existence.
Quite to the contrary, you need to come up with something a little more innovative. Given your line of personal attacks and inability to focus on anything but trying to vilify me, I'm now going to assume that you are incapable of that and that this conversation with you is a waste of time.
Good luck with your life, and if your ego insists on getting in the last word, please do. Take some great shots. I'm not going to bother responding, and your fifteen minutes of fame on teh internets will be legend. lulz.
First, don't vilify ME for personal attacks and then accuse my wife's family members of being crack addicts. They are not drug users at all. They were kidnapped. So I guess all kidnapping victims are now crack addicts. Yea, that makes sense.
And as to my "inability to focus on anything but trying to vilify me" I pointed out several flaws in your argument, which you haven't addressed, nor can you with anything resembling reality. So you're right, it is a waste of time.
Finally, believe me, my life won't be anywhere near as good as yours. If you can tell me how to get to that fantasy world, it would improve vastly.
"crach-whore lying in an alley after her last fix" ... "Two of my wife's cousins had exactly that happen"...
If I misunderstood something in what you wrote, well, you have my apology.
Directions to "fantasy world": Ask questions instead of trolling for a fight. Assume others may have meant something subtly different than what was written or how you interpreted it based on your own filters. Accept that we all have something to learn from our paths (with everything that has happened on those paths) and refuse bitterness at all costs. Don't be jealous of others, befriend them and ask for help. When you get there, help others do the same.
Good luck.