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You have probably heard the expression, "Spare the rod, spoil the child." Do you agree with it? Perhaps you were spanked as a kid. Was it appropriate? Some people see spanking as an outdated method of punishment or even child abuse, while others view a swat on the bottom as a parent's prerogative. Where do we draw the line when it comes to disciplining our children?
If it is banned, then why does every state in the United States have laws saying that it is legal? Another posted posted the laws under another thread.
- UltraConservative November 16, 2008 6:16PM
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Argumentum ad homenem, argumentum ad populem, and appeal to ridicule, three fallacies in such a short piece of writing. Perhaps, if the "expert" form the misnamed "Center for Effective Discipline" could make a reasoned, logical argument, it might be a more "effective" organization. As it is, all I see is hysteria-mongering.
- rdamurphy
January 8, 2009 7:46AM
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It does not take objective evidence for an attached and bonded mother to know with great certainty that hitting her child is in no way natural, appropriate, or effective. Suggesting that spanking is a viable form of punishment simply because the human race has been practicing it for centuries is ridiculous. Man has perpetuated atrocities for all of time such as racism, classism, bigotry of all kinds. Does Mr. Rosemond condone these prejudices? It is this resistance to ideological evolution that will be the demise of mankind.
- Corrina621 August 9, 2008 2:24PM
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Socially, pretty sure we're devolving. More child abuse is going on, more women beating, more divorces, more murders, etc. Science (by the law of entropy) says we are getting worse.
(also, why didn't you mention with atrocities things like killing millions of Jews, allowing for dictators to kill milssions of people, etc.? Why are the "atrocities" you mentioned mental and psychological things? Isn't an atrocity a physical act of evil-doing?)
- reb412 August 30, 2008 9:11PM
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Actually where I live in Canada, I just saw in the paper that in 2008 compared with 2007 to date, that while homicide is up slightly, all other crimes such as sex crimes, car thefts both actual and attempted and break and enters are down substantially. Also, no police officer in this city of 700,000 has died in the line of duty since 1970 and there have been no school shootings since corporal punishment left the schools in 1983. Around here, it appears we are on the dawn of correction.
- edwin p
August 31, 2008 6:45PM
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I'm moving to where you live. :-)
That's an amazing statistic. Do you live in west Canada?
- reb412 August 31, 2008 7:36PM
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Yes, I'm from Western Canada, Winnipeg, Manitoba to be exact-ONE GREAT CITY & GATEWAY TO THE GOLDEN WEST!
- edwin p August 31, 2008 7:45PM
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I 've been out that way once in my life and loved it (I don't like eastern Canada).
- reb412 August 31, 2008 8:36PM
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Since corporal punishment left the schools, has it also left the homes? At least domestic corporal punishment is still allowed in Canada. You can't be sure just like you cannot possibly link school corporal punishment to school shootings. That'll be on the vague side.
You never can tell, maybe parents/guardians are just being better parents by giving their children the required discipline.
- daughterofgoodluck August 31, 2008 10:26PM
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Corporal Punishment is still in Canadian homes but as of the Supreme Court of Canada decision in 2004, it is very restricted. Only children from 2 to 12 can be spanked. Only an open hand can be used, absolutely no foreign objects and no hitting on the face or head. It must also be of a reasonable remedial nature and not done in anger. There is a Bill pending in Parliament to ban all corporal punishment but it appears that we are about to go into an election as we have a minority Government and in that case it will die on the order paper. Let's hope it will be reintroduced by whatever Government takes over if an election should occur which will probably be mid October. WE OWE IT TO THE CHILDREN OF CANADA TO SEE THAT THEY ARE PROTECTED FROM ALL ACTS OF VIOLENCE!
- edwin p September 1, 2008 3:37PM
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Yes I know very much about the 2 to 12 age-limit existing in Canada and all but the bottom line is that spanking is still allowed. Parents can still spank and they sure still do. Besides, that age-group is the one most commonly exposed to corporal punishment and in addition, the one in which the effectiveness of corporal punishment is mostly relevant, so what's the point in extending it further. All the same, there's no direct correlation between restriction (and even prohibition) and limitation of use by parents.
Also, when they say hitting on the face or head or hitting IN ANGER, that transcends the scope of a corrective spanking by far. It has become a case of VIOLENT hitting to let out emotions. If I spank my child, then that'll be a corrective punishment and not violence. Let me make it clear here that all forms of discipline, as sweet as they may sound, can become as violent as ever once anger accompanies the administration. Talk about time-out, we've seen children in our hospital with dislocated arms after the parent angrily picks up the child for a time-out. Is that not an act of violence, without even raising a finger to spank?
- daughterofgoodluck September 1, 2008 11:04PM
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Agreed. How can you link the two but by supposition? Just because school shootings have been down because of corporal punishment gone from the schools does not mean that is why it went down. Here in America, Corporal punishment went out of the Public Schools in Colorado when I was in 6th grade. That was 30 some years ago. It has not helped.
- UltraConservative November 16, 2008 6:21PM
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I don't believe we are getting instinctually or mentally worse. We make advances everyday in a myriad of fields. One thing that could explain many of those statistics are that we have more tools to do harm with now and with more outlets than ever before. Take WWI. There were so many advances in technology and weaponry that our weapons became more destructive, but we kept our same old wartime tendencies. That's why casualties were so high in that war. Our ways will never change, the sooner we realize that, the better. Our tools will change however, that's the "problem".
- GettinGwap January 29, 2009 1:55AM
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Sorry John but history is no guide as to what is right and wrong. At one time it was OK for husbands to whip wives,masters to whip servants,jailers to whip prisoners and officers to whip enlisted military men. Today, such practices are illegal and for good reason,it is cruel and inhuman. Why should children be any different? In fact a child's body is more prone to injury than an adult's. We have access to information on less violent ways to raise children, more than in any other age so we are without excuse like our forefathers were. It's high time we retired the rod and started following these new and less violent ways.
- edwin p August 24, 2008 1:18PM
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Actually I would disagree with "more than any other age." Morally speaking, mankind is degrading not getting better. We are not getting smarter, or more educated. We live in a time when the illiteracy rate is at its highest. People have always known other ways to discipline. It is whether or not people choose to use it.
- UltraConservative November 16, 2008 6:24PM
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"why have human parents been spanking children for longer than history records?"
How can you know anything about what happened before recorded history?
- nevermath October 4, 2008 1:01PM
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The reason the publishing industry, and therefore "educated" liberal society is opposed to spanking is because telling people in general to hit or spank a child is a liability. As a matter of public health policy you'd have to be against giving such advice, because of the cases where it's overused are a great cost to society (litigation, health, and child developmental costs).
But this is entirely beside the point of whether or not spanking a child actually is harmful or helpful. I personally believe it can be helpful when done sparingly and within a loving relationship that spends adequate time with the child on all occasions, not just those involving punishment.
Since there will always be a large number of overbearing parents that tend to harm their children in society, combined with the fact that these days people spend less time with their kids and not more, then policy should definitely not inform society to spank kids. The alternative, which is raising kids poorly and sending them to prisons 16 years down the line is much cheaper in the short term. Therefore science may not ever get a chance to be heard on this topic because society feels it has already "evolved" passed the question.
- harpoon November 18, 2008 12:50PM
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I would feel I failed as a parent if I resorted to physical discipline . I could never be convinced that a child who is 'slapped' or worse by his loving parent does not feel smaller and disrespected. I don't believe I am a hysterical individual because I don't believe in spanking . I just feel very strongly that children need to be treated with respect. When a child disobeys mildly or severely, he should be mildly or severely disciplined. Removing a favorite toy for a day or an evening can be very effective for some children. There are so many effective ways that work so much better than spanking. What parent hasn't had a fleeting desire to leave the house and lock the door behind? Children can be a trial at times, but so can parents. And what if spanking leaves bruises? Child abuse professionals spend a good deal of time studying various bruise patterns and the particular forms of abuse that caused them. The spanking excuse doesn't always fly.
- stngray April 27, 2009 6:58PM
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Hysteria Rules
- From Anonymous Expert
By Anonymous Expert - Parenting Expert
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No evidence.
Is it just me or was there no evidence to support his case in that piece of "expert" opinion? I'm not saying he's not an expert, but his status as such doesn't mean he can make unsupported claims. He summarizes the opponent's ideas and calls them hogwash. The end. This is not any sort of start to a debate.
- Doublecheck
September 18, 2008 5:36PM
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Agreed.
Agreed. It is not any way to start a debate. Where is the evidence? I have read some summaries posted by another poster, but most of it was from a religious standpoint and so it was biased.
- UltraConservative November 16, 2008 6:14PM
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What is this?
Hello, I am writing a paper on opposing views and I have decided to go with rather or not to spank your child is right. As I was reeading your part of the debate, i got really confused because because it doesnt make sense. It doesnt make sense where you say that spanking may be right? You state in the middle of your comment "that the might is right" and that is very confusing because it doesnt make sense and just in general your conment is hard to read.
Thank You
Jackson015
- Jackson015
November 16, 2008 5:17PM
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Side: Yes
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Fear
If your child is afraid of being spanked because youve done it to them before then they will obey you because theyre afraid to be spanked. "Fear is the greatest motivator"
- mattbertrams
January 12, 2009 11:33AM
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Side: Yes
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Too Many Factors!
The person a child becomes is not only determined on whether the child was spanked or not. Just because a child was spanked doesn't mean he will be scarred, violent, and pathetically confused. Also, just because a child wasn't spanked doesn't mean he will be a saint either. Other aspects of parenting determine the person a child grows up to be, not just the form of discipline.
- krispy
January 23, 2009 10:49PM
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Take it Easy
Most children, even preschoolers, are being taught to speak different languages such as Spanish and French in our world today. I think this makes kids capable of telling the difference between a pat on the rear for doing something bad and a display of affection. By gently discipling children, the parents will show their children what are "no-no's" without mentally damaging their reasoning skills and without smudging the line between abuse and affecton.
- Edgin7
January 25, 2009 9:36PM
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Acceptable Punishment
While the people who advocate spankers for God's purpose may not be a strong argue, those who are against spanking also require more depth to their argument, as stated. While spankers may say that this is child abuse, what will become child abuse next? Could a parent using a scare tactic to stop their child from touching a hot stove be considered mental abuse? This idea that cause and effect does not work is absurd since mostly everything one does is governed by what rewards or punishments they receive. Spanking is simply a punishment like taking away car keys or sitting in time out.
- Shay
February 9, 2009 9:29PM
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Call it what you will-
" spanking " "a swat" " a pat on the rear" are all terms for beating a child into submission. We treat animals better. A child who is capable of making the cognitive connection between being hit and what he/she had done to "earn" the hit is capable of being spoken to in a reasonable manner and told why behaviors are unacceptable. A child who is not capable of making that connection is too young to benefit from that type of punishment and should be gently redirected. Beating your child is not the same as taking away a privledge. What ever religion you may ascribe to, there is no justification for violence to another human being.
- Donaverde
April 6, 2009 5:13PM
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