The death penalty has provoked heated discussion since biblical times, and today the debate remains as controversial as ever. Is such a sentence ever justified? Capital punishment is an intensely emotional topic for everyone involved because it sits at the intersection of life, death and the very definition of the word 'justice.'
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Your point is a good one, but using Maine and Vermont as examples against a downtown metropolitan area is misleading. Of course Maine and Vermont will seem safer -- their populations are in general less dense than downtown Houston's. If crime rate and the existence of the death penalty are uncorrelated even when we are controlling for population density, we can't say with certainty that the death penalty is pushing crime rates down.
- thoughtcounts Z
September 8, 2008 8:37AM
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I agree (see my comment above) that the choice of example locations was not ideal. However, I don't think that invalidates the point, and I think your response to Amnesty's objection actually underscores the argument you are trying to disagree with. Surely if some countries with low murder rates have the death penalty and some do not, or if some densely populated cities with high murder rates have the death penalty and some do not, that demonstrates that the existence of the death penalty is not the primary determiner of murder rate.
- thoughtcounts Z September 8, 2008 8:40AM
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D.A.'s Marquis' argument in favor of capital punishment makes little if any sense.
Deterrence is one of the most fraulent principles in the history of mankind.
A murder is commited for one of 3 following reasons :
1.Profit(hitmen, drug dealers, or killing a spouse for life insurance)
2.Passion(killing a cheating spouse)
3.Compulsion (jeffery dahmer, son of sam, john couey, etc.)
People who kill for profit do it rationally and are convinced they will get away with it.
People who kill in passion cannot weigh risk/reward when they are flipped out.
Finally, and worst, crimes of compulsion are violent acts that you cannot deter because it's a compulsion.
Finally, the notion that a killer's ideas die with them as Marquis points out when he says the executions stop future murders is ridiculous.
You don't believe me? just look at the neo-nazis/fourth reich type stuff.
- zaneman1 June 27, 2009 12:41AM
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How Many Innocent Victims are Too Many?
- From Josh Marquis
By Joshua Marquis - District Attorney, Media Commentator
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RE:
"how can we exclude capital punishment if we know with certainty that innocent people will be murdered without it?"
Innocent people will be murdered with or without it, that much is certain. It's not a panacea after all. Whether more or less will be killed is very debatable cause there are studies to support either argument. Indeed, if one looks at the number homicides by state, those without the death penalty
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7471/murderrategraphhr6.gif
I think it's hard to be sure what if any effect is had.
We punish murders by holding them criminally liable, should the state be punished when a innocent person is killed by the state?
- phogan July 25, 2008 12:23AM
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Should state be accountable?
Yes. It should not matter who or what entity is at fault. They should be held accountable.
- cjlee
November 21, 2009 9:39AM
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Anti-rehabilitation
To state that "there has never been any doubt that capital punishment is a specific deterrent" is quite misleading. There have been numerous studies showing that self-preservation is ineffective as a deterrent for crime.
The dual purpose of the penal system is to remove those who are a danger to society from society, and secondly, to rehabilitate them. Simply killing off those who are obviously mentally ill or criminally insane goes against what the penal system was setup to do. It was instigated not only to protect the stable elements in society, but also to aid and assist those that need help re-integrating into society.
There is a general ignorance and lack of understanding with regards to the criminal mind. J. R. R. Tolkein once wrote that there are many who are dead that deserve life, and some alive who deserve death. We cannot give life to those who deserve it, so why do we assume we can take life from those deserving death? We should not be playing God.
- Ralfe Poisson
July 25, 2008 2:18AM
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efficiency of death penalty
I assume for the sake of argument that the death penalty is effective to the rate of 18 murders prevented by each execution. This may sound a strong argument for the death penalty, were it not that the question framed in terms of preventive effect, apart from moral considerations, is still whether the money spent on the death penalty cannot be spent in an even more effective way to save lives. This question is not answered by any of the cited studies. Likely spending the money saved by abolition of the death penalty could be used e.g. to reduce DWI, with a number of death attributed to that far larger than murders. There is a real choice here and an innocent life saved by preventing a murder is equivalent to an equally innocent life saved by taking DWI drivers off the road.
- gerard te meerman
September 4, 2008 5:58PM
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ALL innocent victims matter
And that means innocent victims of capital punishment , too. There have been countless people put on death row and proved innocent before or after execution. Are they not innocent victims?
- Blue Linchpin
June 14, 2009 11:01PM
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The Death Penalty: More Protection for Innocents
The Death Penalty: More Protection for Innocents
Dudley Sharp
Of all the government programs in the world, that put innocents at risk, is there one with a safer record and with greater protections than the US death penalty ?
Unlikely.
Enhanced Due Process - No knowledgeable and honest party questions that the death penalty has the most extensive due process protections in US criminal law . Therefore, actual innocents are more likely to be sentenced to life imprisonment and more likely to die in prison serving under that sentence, that it is that an actual innocent will be executed. That is. logically, conclusive.
Enhanced Incapacitation - To state the blatantly clear, living murderers, in prison, after release or escape, are much more likely to harm and murder , again, than are executed murderers. Although an obvious truism, it is surprising how often folks overlook the enhanced incapacitation benefits of the death penalty over incarceration.
Enhanced Deterrence - 16 recent studies, inclusive of their defenses, find for death penalty deterrence. A surprise? No. Life is preferred over death. Death is feared more than life. Some believe that all studies with contrary findings negate those 16 studies. They don't. Studies which don't find for deterrence don't say no one is deterred, but that they couldn't measure those deterred.
What prospect of a negative outcome doesn't deter some? There isn't one.
Enhanced Fear - Some death penalty opponents argue against death penalty deterrence, stating that it's a harsher penalty to be locked up without any possibility of getting out. Reality paints a very different picture. What percentage of capital murderers seek a plea bargain to a death sentence? Zero or close to it. They prefer long term imprisonment. What percentage of convicted capital murderers argue for execution in the penalty phase of their capital trial? Zero or close to it. They prefer long term imprisonment. What percentage of death row inmates waive their appeals and speed up the execution process? Nearly zero. They prefer long term imprisonment.
This is not, even remotely, in dispute.
What of that more rational group, the potential murderers who choose not to murder, is it likely that they, like most of us, fear death more than life?
Life is preferred over death. Death is feared more than life.
The False Promise - Part of the anti death penalty deception is that a life sentence, with no possibility of release, is a superior alternative to the death penalty. It's a lie. History tells us that lifers have many ways to get out: Pardon, commutation, escape, clerical error, change in the law , etc. There are few absolutes with sentencing. But, here are two: the legislature can lessen the sentences of current inmates, retroactively, and the executive branch can lessen any individual sentence, at any time. This has been, actively, pursued, for a number of years, in many states, because of the high cost of life sentences and/or geriatric care, found to be $60,000-$90,000 per year per inmate.
Innocents released from death row: Some reality - Furthermore, possibly we have sentenced 25 actually innocent people to death since 1973, or 0.3% of those so sentenced. Those have all been released upon post conviction review. The anti death penalty claims, that the numbers are significantly higher, are a fraud, easily discoverable by fact checking. There is no proof of an innocent executed in the US, at least since 1900.
In choosing to end the death penalty, or in choosing not implement it, some have chosen to spare murderers at the cost of sacrificing more innocent lives.
copyright 2007-2009, Dudley Sharp
Permission for distribution of this document, in whole or in part, is approved with proper attribution.
Dudley Sharp, Justice Matters
e-mail sharpjfa@aol.com 713-622-5491,
Houston, Texas
Mr. Sharp has appeared on ABC, BBC, CBS, CNN, C-SPAN, FOX, NBC, NPR, PBS, VOA and many other TV and radio networks, on such programs as Nightline, The News Hour with Jim Lehrer, The O'Reilly Factor, etc., has been quoted in newspapers throughout the world and is a published author.
A former opponent of capital punishment, he has written and granted interviews about, testified on and debated the subject of the death penalty, extensively and internationally.
Pro death penalty sites
essays http://homicidesurvivors.com/categories/Dudley %20Sharp%20-%20Justice%20Matters.aspx
http://www.dpinfo.com
http://www.cjlf.org/deathpenalty/DPinformation.htm
http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/links/dplinks.htm
http://www.coastda.com/archives.html
http://www.lexingtonprosecutor.com/death_penalty_debate.htm
http://www.prodeathpenalty.com
http://yesdeathpenalty.googlepages.com/home2 (Sweden)
http://www.wesleylowe.com/cp.html
- dudleysharp
June 15, 2009 4:15AM
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how many?
You ask the question how many victims are necessary? I would ask how many people who are innocent are executed? ONE is too many! Especially when we have an alternative of life without parole that is cheaper and doesn't require a resurrection to reverse in the case of error. We will never know how many innocents are executed as after the execution they no longer may appeal. DNA evidence will no longer be collected. And as poor people OVERWHELMINGLY are the ones that are executed we are killing those who have the least amount of resourses to protect themselves. I would rather find myself in agreement with countries like Spain, Germany, England, and France than countries like North Korea, Chine, Syria, and Iran... yes?
- gavcoo July 28, 2009 2:42AM
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And Mr Marquis
You said there weren't too many wrongly convicted people on death row. I see you are a recognized expert, so I ask you"How many wrongfully executed people are too many?" Life sir is a double edged sword it cuts both ways. I am far from an expert but I can tell you I do know the right answer to this question.
- oneoldman
July 30, 2009 1:04PM
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Whether they are guilty or they are truly innocent...
Is a very moot point in regards to the overall achievement that is sought after. No system is perfect. And until someone can come forward and look into the mind of the individuals that have been arrested for a crime to see if they are innocent or guilty, there will always be a margin for error. Even if someone could read minds, eventually an error would arise. The point of the death sentence is to 1: be the ultimate judgement of a heinous crime. 2: be the most powerful deterent for the repeat of similar crimes. And in todays overcrowded prisons 3: be more economical than one or multiple life sentences. All of this because todays society has become too passive. Too eager to not leather up and say, Ok, you did something so wrong and now you must pay the ultimate price, your life.
- cjlee
November 21, 2009 10:05AM
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