There has been no shortage of controversy as gay people assume increased roles as parents and married couples in our society, but almost nowhere has this conflict been more intense than in the church. Many religious leaders have condemned homosexuality, calling it a sin or even an abomination, but for millions of gay people around the world, there is nothing inherently sinful about their sexual preferences.
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Homosexuality is Not a Sin Anymore than Heterosexuality Is a Sin
- From Rick Brentlinger
By Rick Brentlinger - Gay Christian 101
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If the Bible says something is sin...
then Christians believe it is sin unless it is inconvenient for them to do so. Why focus on homosexuality as a sin when there are scores of laws laid down in Leviticus and elsewhere in the Bible that hardly anyone pays attention to anymore? You're right to make this distinction between cultic and committed relationships, but I think there's a bigger point about defining sin. Why would an openly homosexual person be denied the Eucharist whereas there would be no problem with, for example, someone wearing two different kinds of fabric at once? It's a silly and arbitrary distinction as far as the Bible is concerned.
- thoughtcounts Z
September 5, 2008 9:20AM
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People Can Sin and Still Have Faith in God for Their Salvation
I feel terrible that people who have same sex attractions feel condemned by the church. All of us are sinners - period. All of us are made worthy by God - period.
The notion of "sin" has taken on strange nuances that have become bigger than what I believe God intended. While sin does separate us from God, >Christ< bridged the gap, not our good behavior. (See Christianity 101.)
So none of this conversation should lead to anyone thinking that homosexuals are unworthy of taking Eucharist. The whole point of that ritual is to remember that we are forgiven, for crying out loud!
The purpose of paying attention to what God tells us is "sin" is to a) keep ourselves and our community out of harm's way, and b) help lead us toward God's plan for our lives which are to give us hope and a future. (Jeremiah 29:11-13)
- SDStace
October 3, 2008 7:48AM
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Shrine Passages
I have re-read the passages in Leviticus with Rick's interpretation in mind that this was solely about types of sex that happened at the shrine - with the notion that perhaps God is not addressing sexual relations that happen within a monogamus loving relationship. What's interesting to me is that Lev 18 lists all kinds of prohibitions: no sex with your relatives; no sex with your neighbor, no sex with someone of the same gender; but it doesn't prohibit sex with your heterosexual spouse. It seems to me that if we were to discount what Lev 18 says on the basis that it was God prohibiting any kind of idolatrous sex ritual, we would see the inclusion of sex with your heterosexual spouse.
It seems to me that God is giving instruction for a broader context.
- SDStace
October 3, 2008 7:34AM
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Homosexuality is a sin, but we often condemn homosexuals too much
Contrary to many beliefs that homosexuality is not a sin, I would have to disagree. Homosexuality is much like any sin: lying, stealing, coveting, idolatry, etc. I realize it is a controversial topic in today's society, but it doesn't mean we can ignore the word of God.
One thing I do disagree with is: the way homosexuals are treated by Christians and the church. We are all sinners, like Romans 3:23 says: "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." We must understand that homosexuality is a sin, like 1 Corinthians 6:9 says: "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality."
The one thing Christians do tend to do is to judge harshly, the homosexuals. I do not believe this should happen. Homosexuality is just one of many sins, and we all sin daily, no matter who we are. Those of us who recognize this and have asked Jesus for forgiveness will be forgiven, but those who dwell and live in sin will not inherit the kingdom of God. I do know many Christians that struggle with homosexuality, but we should encourage them to listen to God's voice. I do believe many homosexuals will and have gone to heaven, those who truly have a relationship with God and try to obey his commandments.
On a tighter note, I do stand at the point: homosexuality is still a sin.
- quiet4no1
October 16, 2008 10:04PM
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Do what you feel?
The argument that sexuality is determined innately from birth, may be true, but there is a problem with those who want to rape children, have many spouses, murder and so on. Although it seems extreem to use these as examples, many years ago no one would have dreamed in our society that Homosexuals could be married here in the US. It was against the law to practice homosexuality, as it is now against the law to have sex with children and other sexual acts. To be true to yourself, the philosphy of Jean paul Sarte, Existencialism, I believe breaks down when considering that some are born with sociopathic tendencies, and sexial deviencies, homosexuality may be one and we have just chosen to allow it out of compassion. Who doesn't love these people, they are wonderful, but their activities are not. Do what you feel or be what you are is not necessarily the best activity, so we must talk about the argument for homosexuality on another foundation. Thank you for your comments.
- Andante931
November 19, 2008 10:02PM
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Fornication
Do you also say fornication is not sin? What is in the Bible about homosexual marriage?
- Screen Name
January 27, 2009 5:49PM
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Incest is Not a Sin Anymore than Heterosexuality Is a Sin?
Is incest a sin?
- Screen Name
January 27, 2009 5:58PM
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is it?
because it happens more then once in the Bible and there is no mention of divine punishment that I've seen.
- MrBook
May 16, 2009 9:03AM
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Too opened mind?
The Bible is clear and God did destroy Sodom and Gomahara over the "unnatural" sin of that city. Winning this argument on a website changes nothing. The final word is with the creator - (blah, blah) aetheist, no god , yeah right. Let's see whose right when you die. Not the time to discover you were wrong. Again, another warning that you are and will be judged. The clock is ticking... tick, tock, tick, tock... I hear the closet calling.
Now that's funny..... :)
- CherryHillPI
May 13, 2009 1:15PM
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not very clear
The Bible is clear and God did destroy Sodom and Gomahara over the "unnatural" sin of that city.
In Genesis God never explicitly states which sins led to the destruction of Sodom. Indeed it is later stated in Ezekiel 16:49 that the reason why the city was destroyed was due to the arrogance, gluttony, and cruelty.
The Talmud (Tractate Sanhedrin 109a) gives a much more explicit list of their sins... adultery, blood lust, greed, but never homosexuality .
- MrBook
May 16, 2009 9:00AM
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Jesus was very clear
Jesus is very clear on the proper marriage relationship (Matthew 19:4-5). "For this reason, a man shall leave his father and mother and cling to his wife and the two shall become one flesh." There can be no mistaking what Jesus taught in this regard. In this passage Jesus is reiterating what Moses taught (Genesis 2:24) about marriage and family. Anything contrary to this-any sexual relationship outside of a committed marriage relationship between one man and one woman-demeans the institution of marriage and is unbiblical.
There are those who like to say that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality . Various verses are cited (out of context) and the verses that people use to show that homosexuality is wrong are explained away. The world wants to change God’s words and meanings into something more suitable to its sinful desires.
Nevertheless, the truth stands: The Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin. Let’s look at what it says.
Lev. 18:22, “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”
Lev. 20:13, “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them”
1 Cor. 6:9-10, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
Verse 11 says "and such WERE some of you.. but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ."
(Notice the past tense, WERE! When they came to Christ, He changed them from the inside out. It can happen I have seen it happen!
Rom. 1:26-28, “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper.”
Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God. He created Adam and then made a woman. This is what God has ordained and it is what is right. Unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: They are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:18ff). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing. Without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation.
It is mentioned 5 times in Scriptures, both Old and New Testaments. So it is not a cultural thing!
Nor is it, as Rick B. is trying to say, just a cultural thing that Paul was dealing with. It is an issue of morality, one in which Jesus did not erase! The Old Testament dietary laws and sacrificial laws were completed in Christ. However the moral laws were never abolished.
Other places do mention what the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was. (Jeremiah 23:14)
Some may ask, "Why should we arbitrarily select only heterosexual couples for marriage? What can it hurt if two homosexuals want to marry?"
The answer is surprisingly simple. The institution of marriage between and man a woman is not, in fact, arbitrary. It's purpose is clear and of utmost importance to society.
Mentioned 5 times in both Old and New Testaments, called an abomination, unnatural, lustful, perverse, it is no wonder that the person who commits such and does not repent of that sin will not enter heaven!
You can't have Jesus and homosexuality also. The two do not mix, like oil and water.
God's word is final in all matters, not history!
- RichWh1
June 10, 2009 12:30AM
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History is important...
God's word is final, true, however, you cannot take this and run with it. History is relevant in understanding what God's word actually is. Without context, "God's word" is meaningless, or worse, it could be used for antithetical pursuits.
- visavismeyou
October 9, 2009 11:10PM
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Final Word
While history is important and plays an important role in our understanding of what happened in the past and why people of other cultures act as they do, it is not the final authority, and you agree with me on that.
The Bible is the final authority and it remains the final authority in all matters of faithand practice.
I was not saying that history is not important or relevant. I was saying that in intrepreting the Bible, history should not be used where it contradicts the Word of God.
If we use history alone to intreprite the Bible, then we are in trouble! Our histories are packed with immorality, fornication, murder , sexual abuse, and so forth. If we use these actions as standards for verifying the truth of the Bible, then we depend on man's inhumanity to man to explain God's love for man. It cannot be done.
We need to use the histories to understand what God means by what He says. However we cannot allow history to dictate to us what God meant by what He said in His Holy Word. His word is final and not even history can make God's word mean what it was never meant to.
That is all I was saying. Let history interprite history and let the Bible intreprite the Bible.
RichWh1
- RichWh1
October 9, 2009 11:41PM
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Truth in Context
History is important and I will agree to that. However history cannot determine what the Word of God means. You are correct, without context, the Word od God is meaningless, which is why we need to keep it in its context and allow the Bible to be its own interpriter. History cannot be the interpriter of God's word any more than God's word can be the intrepriter of history.
They are separate and distinct and both, while valuable, have nothing to do with one another, at least secular history.
God's word is inspired; history is not. If we use history as a leverage, then the evil things that happened in human history become important and relevant when we try to interprite the word of God.
If we allow the Word of God to be its own interpreter, then we are on solid ground.
- RichWh1
October 9, 2009 11:52PM
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Flaw
This argument relies on an unwarranted assumption: "Both are innate orientations" and then moves on to cite an individual whose opinion does nothing to substantiate the assumption as his credibility to augment the assumption is invalid. Proof by association is specious at best. Proof by inapplicable analogy is flawed.
Your conclusion that ' homosexuality is no more a sin than heterosexuality' does not follow from any of the evidence you cite.
- visavismeyou
October 9, 2009 11:08PM
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