Are Vegetarians Healthier?

Could veggie burgers increase your lifespan? Many experts insist that switching to a vegetarian lifestyle can greatly increase overall health, leading some to ditch their pork rinds like an old smoking habit. Still others swear by an omnivorous diet, saying that occasional New York steak never hurt anyone. Is a fresh helping of tofu just what the doctor ordered, or only a lot of empty calories?

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Regarding Argument

Fact: Meat is Good For You

- From Scott Gold

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Facts are important

"The research project culminated in a 20-year partnership of Cornell University, Oxford University, and the Chinese Academy of Preventive Medicine, a survey of diseases and lifestyle factors in rural China and Taiwan. More commonly known as the China Study, “this project eventually produced more than 8000 statistically significant associations between various dietary factors and disease.”

The findings? “People who ate the most animal-based foods got the most chronic disease … People who ate the most plant-based foods were the healthiest and tended to avoid chronic disease. These results could not be ignored,” said Dr. Campbell."

http://www.thechinastudy.com/about.html

- reckoner October 8, 2008 9:46AM

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Veganism is goog for you

Anyone curious about vegan health should read this:
http://www.veganhealth.org /

Here's the vegan food pyramid:
http://www.chooseveg.com/vegan-food-pyramid.asp

Being vegan is easy, satisfying, and healthy. Period.

- ElaineVigneault October 8, 2008 9:46AM

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What about soil?

B12 is not just found in animal products as you say. It's primarily found in soil and is produced by bacteria. Unfortunately with soil contamination and erosion (problems caused by intensive and animal based agriculture) soil is no longer a reliable or safe source. Actually, I wouldn't consider getting B12 from the rotting carcasses of dead animals to be a safe source either...
Also, you are just plain wrong about soy not being a complete protein. PLAIN WRONG. I suggest you read a book that was printed within the last 50 years for verification.
As I said in another comment, I've been vegan for 16 years and take no supplement other than nutritional yeast. I've never had to take any special care to combine the right foods together just to get adequate nutrition and my doctor tells me I'm as "healthy as a horse" (another herbivore). I just eat a variety of whole foods. That's all.
As far as arguing with the "creds" of the ADA, I suggest you take a look at the ADA's position on Vegan diets for all stages of human life. (Spoiler: It's favorable)
I'm willing to bet that you've never seriously tried veganism (or at all) and that it just threatens your complacency to the point that you'll desperately (and erroneously) try to discredit it. I'd say your many factual errors support this conclusion.

- HumanAnimal October 8, 2008 12:21PM

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Bill Castelli

William Castelli directed the long running Framingham Heart Study for over 26 years. Here are some of his quotes;

"Vegetarians have the best diet. They have the lowest rates of coronary disease of any group in the country....Some people scoff at vegetarians, but they have a fraction of our heart attack rate and they have only 40 percent of our cancer rate. They outlive other men by about six years now."

"If Americans adopted a vegetarian diet, the whole thing (the heart disease epidemic) would disappear"

Americans have been "brainwashed to eat meat"

http://www.pbs.org/saf/1104/features/castelli.htm

- HumanAnimal October 8, 2008 1:28PM

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The Paleo Diet

This is the diet I try to maintain, and from what I've seen in people who practice it, it tends to be one of the healthiest diets around.

One of the biggest problems with meat eating is the low quality of meat obtained in the common markets. Meat can be extremely healthy when not overdone, and when eaten from sources that were fed and raised under natural conditions, or a close approximation of natural conditions. Meat can be extremely unhealthy when fed poor quality foods (but cheap, all important to the business of selling meat), when pumped with steroids and hormones and other junk, and when packaged with preservatives, salts, and other additives.

Compare the "average American diet" to just about any diet, whether vegan, raw foods, the paleo diet, or fruitarians...and guess what.... You'll find that almost ANY diet is better than the average American diet. So I don't put much stock in studies that compare "the common diet" to a specific regimen. The real test would be to compare someone on Atkins, to someone on Paleo, to someone Vegan, to someone Fruitarian, etc. Comparing to the average diet is comparing to the lowest common denominator. MOST diets look superior in comparison to that. Not a fair comparison.

The question becomes, "are vegetarians healthier than people on all other diets, or just compared to the average diet?" I would assert that they're healthier in comparison to the average. Based on my personal experience with people on a variety of diets, I would also assert that they're not healthier when compared to people who eat one of these diets: The Paleo Diet, The Raw Foods Diet, or the Mediterranean Diet. All three of those include meat. I have personally seen friends go from diabetic and needing regular insulin, to not needing the insulin any more while eating the Paleo or Raw Foods diets. I have never seen that happen to a vegan.

Resources for the Paleo Diet:
http://www.thepaleodiet.com /
http://www.paleodiet.net /
http://www.paleodiet.com /
http://paleofood.com /

- ebsarver October 8, 2008 3:18PM

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- You make a good point
  
  I agree with most of what you say, however, the bit about diabetics not needing insulin is a well-documented aspect of vegetarianism. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/26/health/webmd/main1837927.shtml
  
  But if you read The China Study, you will see that diets of already quite healthy chinese people were taken into account. There was a direct link between amount of meat proteins consumed, and the chance of being afflicted with some disease or another.
  
  - sonofwill October 8, 2008 5:41PM
  
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  - Thanks!
    
    Thanks for the link. That's some interesting info I'd never seen before. I appreciate it.
    
    - ebsarver October 8, 2008 5:59PM
    
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  - Diabetes + Problems with The China Study
    
    Improvement in the symptoms of diabetes is not uncommon on healthy diets that incorporate meat—even high amounts, as in the paleo diet. A wonderful explanation of why low carb diets improve the symptoms of diabetes is here: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/diabetes / Some anecdotal evidence here: http://robbwolf.com/?p=144
    
    ---
    
    A well written rebuttal to The China Study can be found here: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html
    
    Campbell has a response to that here: http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/campbell_china_response.htm I haven't read the China Study itself but I gather that it advocates abstaining from animal sources of protein. In the response, I think Campbell tries to dodge out of that advocacy and also fails to make any response of substance to Masterjohn's nutritional claims.
    
    Masterjohn then has a response to the response here: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Campbell-Masterjohn.html Masterjohn apparently edited out an ad hom in in his original rebuttal, which is kinda shady, but he at least admits it...
    
    - Kobold October 27, 2008 12:37AM
    
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- seconding sonofwill
  
  I want to second what sonofwill said. Check out The China Study when you get a chance.
  
  http://www.thechinastudy.com/about.html
  
  - reckoner October 8, 2008 8:29PM
  
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meat is good for you

Well here's my two cents from the peanut gallery: For 24 years I suffered from hypertension and then a year ago November was I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. I changed my diet. The culprit? Hyperinsulinemia was depleting my magnesium levels causing my blood vessels to constrict and and my pressure to skyrocket to 170/110. I also had become insulin resistant. The fix? I cut out all sugars, grains, cereals, pasta, bread, potatoes and starches. I only eat slow burning carbs (broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, spinach, legumes, quinoa) and fish, eggs, cheese or meat. I cannot tolerate grains or sugars: the mainstay of vegetarian dieters. I am now off ALL medication ( used to take 6 pills/day for the above). Listen folks, I have compassion for animals myself - but I draw the line at my dinner plate. I take great offense when self-righteous animal rights activists try to tell me what's healthy for ME. A carbohydrate type can thrive on your cuisine - but a protein type like myself cannot. My most recent ancestors (I am a quarter-breed Amerindian) didn't just eat "maize": They ate buffalo and deer - raw kidneys, raw liver, raw intestine and they were hunter gatherers - that's what feral man is and has always been for thousands of years. Please don't tell me we are all "higher evolved" than that. I've tried to be vegetarian at least a dozen times with no luck at all. Hunting is in my blood - like a cat chases a ball of string and it's in my genes. I eat what I kill and feel not an ounce of pity. You kill them on the road anyway driving to work for the green frog skin. And I have news for you: farmers have to kill nuisance animals galore just to give you a vegan diet, so you end up killing animals anyway. If wolves and bears can hunt, so can I - and your dietary advice is outdated. Only fermented soy products are healthy for you. (See Dr.Mercola's website for the lowdown. You're not getting nature's goodness but a chemical feast when you eat tofu burgers. And read Dr.Ron Rosedale's article on insulin metabolism). Also I have a question: If you saw a little girl and her puppy dog on the road but coudn't swerve in time to avoid both, which one would you hit? In my book it's a no-brainer (my sympathies to poor fido not withstanding). BTW, I'm also a member of "PETA": People Eating Tasty Animals and tonight I'm having veal scallopini.

- alpan January 20, 2009 8:19AM

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- Meat and diabetes
  
  I know of some similar experiences from friends. There is seemingly a lot to gain from removing the group of foods that you mention.
  I try to be vegan most of the time myself, but even if I am quite carb-tolerant, I have to have some proper protein and fat foods in my diet to feel any good. For veganism to be applicable to a larger group of people other than the carb-tolerant, the type of foods grown and marketed for vegans need to improve. Seed-types that store energy as fat, and have more protein, are the future in that respect. And other legumes need to replace the prevalence of soy. I do agree that soy is problematic (the taste of it alone is a good indicator) and unfortunately, soy is most often the protein-alternative, at least where I'm at in the world.
  But the problem is, for the vast majority of the world's urban population, hunting is not an option (for reasons of both practicality and available game), and meat from domestic animals can't be sustainably produced to the rate so that we can all live like our hunter-gatherer ancestors, the numbers of agricultural area available per person simply doesn't add up. In my opinion, to have more people getting the benefit of a diet more appopriate to us, we may need to approximate a diet that may not be vegan, but has more proper grown and processed, protein and fat-rich foods of plant origin.
  
  - Francis February 5, 2009 6:30PM
  
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What you don't know about soy as a "health food"

For those of you using soy products here's more food for thought:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2004/01/21/soy-part-eight.aspx

- alpan January 21, 2009 1:09AM

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Regarding Objection

Meat is No Health Food

- From PETA

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Grains are no Heath Food for Me

Well here's my two cents from the peanut gallery: For 24 years I suffered from hypertension and then a year ago November was I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. I changed my diet. The culprit? Hyperinsulinemia was depleting my magnesium levels causing my blood vessels to constrict and and my pressure to skyrocket to 170/110. I also had become insulin resistant. The fix? I cut out all sugars, grains, cereals, pasta, bread, potatoes and starches. I only eat slow burning carbs (broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, spinach, legumes, quinoa) and fish, eggs, cheese or meat. I cannot tolerate grains or sugars: the mainstay of vegetarian dieters. I am now off ALL medication ( used to take 6 pills/day for the above). Listen folks, I have compassion for animals myself - but I draw the line at my dinner plate. I take great offense when self-righteous animal rights activists try to tell me what's healthy for ME. A carbohydrate type can thrive on your cuisine - but a protein type like myself cannot. My most recent ancestors (I am a quarter-breed Amerindian) didn't just eat "maize": They ate buffalo and deer - raw kidneys, raw liver, raw intestine and they were hunter gatherers - that's what feral man is and has always been for thousands of years. Please don't tell me we are all "higher evolved" than that. I've tried to be vegetarian at least a dozen times with no luck at all. Hunting is in my blood - like a cat chases a ball of string and it's in my genes. I eat what I kill and feel not an ounce of pity. You kill them on the road anyway driving to work for the green frog skin. And I have news for you: farmers have to kill nuisance animals galore just to give you a vegan diet, so you end up killing animals anyway. If wolves and bears can hunt, so can I - and your dietary advice is outdated. Only fermented soy products are healthy for you. (See Dr.Mercola's website for the lowdown. You're not getting nature's goodness but a chemical feast when you eat tofu burgers. And read Dr.Ron Rosedale's article on insulin metabolism). Also I have a question: If you saw a little girl and her puppy dog on the road but coudn't swerve in time to avoid both, which one would you hit? In my book it's a no-brainer (my sympathies to poor fido not withstanding). BTW, I'm also a member of "PETA": People Eating Tasty Animals and tonight I'm having veal scallopini.

- alpan January 20, 2009 1:47AM

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Meat is my health food

Well here's my two cents from the peanut gallery: For 24 years I suffered from hypertension and then a year ago November was I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. I changed my diet. The culprit? Hyperinsulinemia was depleting my magnesium levels causing my blood vessels to constrict and and my pressure to skyrocket to 170/110. I also had become insulin resistant. The fix? I cut out all sugars, grains, cereals, pasta, bread, potatoes and starches. I only eat slow burning carbs (broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, spinach, legumes, quinoa) and fish, eggs, cheese or meat. I cannot tolerate grains or sugars: the mainstay of vegetarian dieters. I am now off ALL medication ( used to take 6 pills/day for the above). Listen folks, I have compassion for animals myself - but I draw the line at my dinner plate. I take great offense when self-righteous animal rights activists try to tell me what's healthy for ME. A carbohydrate type can thrive on your cuisine - but a protein type like myself cannot. My most recent ancestors (I am a quarter-breed Amerindian) didn't just eat "maize": They ate buffalo and deer - raw kidneys, raw liver, raw intestine and they were hunter gatherers - that's what feral man is and has always been for thousands of years. Please don't tell me we are all "higher evolved" than that. I've tried to be vegetarian at least a dozen times with no luck at all. Hunting is in my blood - like a cat chases a ball of string and it's in my genes. I eat what I kill and feel not an ounce of pity. You kill them on the road anyway driving to work for the green frog skin. And I have news for you: farmers have to kill nuisance animals galore just to give you a vegan diet, so you end up killing animals anyway. If wolves and bears can hunt, so can I - and your dietary advice is outdated. Only fermented soy products are healthy for you. (See Dr.Mercola's website for the lowdown. You're not getting nature's goodness but a chemical feast when you eat tofu burgers. And read Dr.Ron Rosedale's article on insulin metabolism). Also I have a question: If you saw a little girl and her puppy dog on the road but coudn't swerve in time to avoid both, which one would you hit? In my book it's a no-brainer (my sympathies to poor fido not withstanding). BTW, I'm also a member of "PETA": People Eating Tasty Animals and tonight I'm having veal scallopini.

- alpan January 20, 2009 1:51AM

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Yes, I agree with Dr. Mercola's article on soya

And that good lean meat is good for us.
I have several friends that are vegetarians
and they are not healthier than I am, and
two of the three have plenty of health
problems actually. The amounts of vitamins
they are taking could be described as too
much to be good for them as well.

- Panther April 10, 2009 12:52AM

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To Say Meat Is Not Healthy Is Ridiculous, but

the rest of the argument was reasonable and from my experience true. When consumed in moderation lean meat can be a healthy part of anyone's diet .

- ieatcomputers June 12, 2009 5:53PM

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Related Debates

Experts on "Yes" Side

PETA
People for Ethical Treatment of Animals See arguments
International Vegetarian Union
Promoting Vegetarianism Worldwide See arguments
PCRM
Encouraging Higher Standards in Research See arguments

Experts on "No" Side

Weston A Price Foundation
for Wise Traditions See arguments
Scott Gold
Author: The Shameless Carnivore See arguments

Most Objections

Fact: Meat is Good For You
6