Despite Social Pressure, People Still Risk All To Be Gay
Few gay people have had the pleasure of knowing a smooth, controversy-free life. For many of us, our burgeoning sexualities are coupled with a growing awareness of the homophobic/heterosexist notions that still plague society. Yet despite this reality, we still come out. Sometimes we come out and lose EVERYTHING we have known -- friends, families, religious leaders. But we still come out because the pain of living a lie is in many ways worse than the pain of abandonment.
Why would so many of us make this "choice" if we didn't have to?
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...and that is if you are born gay then you should admit to it right away. Not when you pop out of your mother , but when you know. Because if it's true that it's based on you being born that way then there's no point in hiding it no matter who it hurts.
Black people don't get to hide being black. Asians can't hide being Asian. People with down syndrome can't hide it. If you have brown eyes you can't hide it. If you have black hair you can't hide it (eyebrows, arm pit...other hair) all the time. If you have any fingers or toes missing people would know the moment you were born. Why is it the things we are born with are noticed right away but being gay is something that isn't noticed until teens or a little younger?
Why is it if it's something you're born with that one would want to hide it? If you are born with it why can you hide it? Shouldn't that be something noticeable just like a penis or a vagina on a newborn?
People have compared being gay with mental disorder. But with a mental disorder their is a trigger that happens that turns on a switch and what was there since birth is now on and causing problems. The way that being gay and coming out is described sounds like that. But I don't think that it's a mental disorder. But it's hard to sit here and believe it's something one is born with and yet it can be hidden unless it's like a mental disorder in how it activates.
No one explains the reason behind hiding it and fear isn't a good enough reason.
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid. - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
The fact that there may or may not be negative consequences for a certain action or belief is not a good guideline to determine whether a person is choosing to do them.
"Why would so many of us make this "choice" if we didn't have to?"
Extemporaneously I can answer this quite easily. The lack of knowledge of a choice does not preclude the possibility of a choice. Furthermore, it does not follow logically that if someone makes a choice that he or she understands the potential consequences sufficiently so as to dissuade his or her mind from making that choice. Finally, just because a choice may carry with it negative consequences does not mean he or she will choose against it.
Quite obviously, many people make choices which harm themselves (if you consider homosexuality and its consequences as “harmful”, which apparently you do) all of the time. Take the monk whose self-immolation is quite famous. He made a choice to set himself on fire… Under your line of reasoning, no one would ever smoke, do drugs , wear high-heels… etc. Facts and common observation disagree with your method of reasoning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th %C3%ADch_Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_%C4%90%E1%BB%A9c
And this book:
As Nature Made Him : The Boy Who Was Raised as A Girl
Author: John Colapinto
In 1967, after a baby boy suffered a botched circumcision , his family agreed to a radical treatment. On the advice of a renowned expert in gender identity and sexual reassignment at Johns Hopkins Hospital, the boy was surgically altered to live as a girl. This landmark case, initially reported to be a complete success, seemed all the more remarkable since the child had been born an identical twin: his uninjured brother, raised as a boy, provided to the experiment the perfect matched control.
The so-called twins case would become one of the most famous in modern medicine and the social sciences; cited repeatedly over the past thirty years as living proof that our sense of being male or female is not inborn but primarily the result of how we are raised. A touchstone for the feminist movement, the case also set the precedent for sex reassignment as standard treatment for thousands of newborns with similarly injured, or irregular, genitals.
But the case was a failure from the outset. From the start the famous twin had, in fact, struggled against his imposed girlhood. Since age fourteen, when finally informed of his medical history, he made the decision to live as a male. John Colapinto tells this extraordinary story for the first time in As Nature Made Him. Writing with uncommon intelligence, insight, and compassion, he also sets the historical and medical context for the case, exposing the thirty-year-long scientific feud between Dr. John Money and his fellow sex researcher, Dr. Milton Diamond--a rivalry over the nature/nurture debate whose very bitterness finally brought the truth to light. A macabre tale of medical arrogance, As Nature Made Him is first and foremost a human drama of one man's-and one family's--amazing survival in the face of terrible odds. The human intimacy of the story is all the greater for the subject's courageous decision to step out from behind the pseudonym that has shrouded his identity for the past thirty years.
Doesn't this indicate that biology, not nurture, is the primary source of sexuality?
David killed himself! When you mess with sexual identity you mess with someones life. I think David and I stopped a doctor in N. California that once thought homosexuality was ok. My story at www.hope7.highpowersites.com
A boy, you are a boy, period. Not a thing, not an it, you want to do boy things etc and visa versa. If your a boy and you like homosexuality that means your mentally not right, period.
Why do parents allow their tax monies to be given toward homosexual tolerance teaching and homosexual rights in school when they are using these funds to show children pornography , how to fist someone, how to use a dildo, and on and on...when did this become about sex and not about rights?
www.massresistance.org on fistgate videos
How many MORE sons in school will be raped by students using hockey sticks before someone realizes, oh yah, they teach that in health class under diversity in school?
How many more children will suffer mental diorders including sexual identity crisis and abnormal behavior and psychology before a caring person sues the school for indoctrination?
Just thoughts I have that need answers. Have a good day.
"A boy, you are a boy, period. Not a thing, not an it, you want to do boy things etc and visa versa. If your a boy and you like homosexuality that means your mentally not right, period."
-Hope7
I have heard the same things that that boy said about being straight from homosexuals... it was something they felt deep inside, not a choice they made one morning. And I'm not sure how the fact that he was straight 'proves' that homosexuality is a mental illness.
He was male... it was part of his biology such that even being treated as a girl by EVERYONE he was not comfortable as one. This IS what transgender individuals say.
"Yet despite this reality, we still come out."
Is it despite this reality that some people come out? Or because of it?
I'm not an expert (it's obvious if you read my other comments on things) but that doesn't stop me from having my own theories. Research shows children who are raised by homosexual couples are more likely to be gay themselves. That seems to me not an indication of increased tolerance but an affirmation that the social aspect is a lot more influential in a person's sexual orientation than is given credit for. That's the only theory based on evidence now hear one on experience if you would.
Part I think is due to what I would call the "under dog" complex, or a separate term "emotional masochism". Take this all with a grain of salt if you would. Here in America the under dog is idolized. The valiant struggle for rights, the strength of will to be the downtrodden of society and emerge a "better" person than before is portrayed in hundreds of movies and real life stories. How many people want that image of themselves? I know I do and I'll gladly admit it. But I prefer to be a different kind of minority. The white male between 19-25 years of age that goes to college full time has a steady job gets good grades respects women and keeps a clean apartment minority. If you look at where I'm going to school you might be surprised to learn that even here being "responsible" is a rarity. As for the emotional masochism my last roommate was the perfect test case example. Allow me to explain,
Up all night "studying" listening to rock music on his head phones he complains that he can't remember anything he "learns". No duh. With the same situation he complains it takes him an hour to do a math problem. No duh. (What does he do during the day you ask? Watches TV) He complains that he can't keep a steady girlfriend for some unknown reason. (He's cheated on the last 3 and news travels fast). Is there a cure to his ills? Yes there is. Have we told him when he's asked us what to do? Yes we have. Did he listen? No. Why not? The only conclusion I can find is that he likes to have this "right" to complain about how rough his life is. Although she may not like me quoting her "Livvy" had a point when she said, "Yeah...and...who hasn't?" Life is rough. Parents, good ones bless their hearts, tell you that you you have the potential to be anything you want when you grow up. Do we all really believe that?
"Research shows children who are raised by homosexual couples are more likely to be gay themselves."
What research are you looking at? One of my sources tells me otherwise, albeit the sample size is small.
Psychosocial Adjustment, School Outcomes, and Romantic Relationships of Adolescents With Same-Sex Parents. Jennifer L. Wainright, Stephen T. Russell, and Charlotte J. Patterson. Child Development, 2004, Volume 75, Number 6, Pages 1886-1898. Citing Golombok et. al.: Children in lesbian and single- parent households: Psychosocial and psychiatric appraisal. Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, 24, 551-572.
“A slightly older population was studied in Tasker and Golombok's (1997) longitudinal study of young adult offspring of lesbian mothers. Forty-six young adults, ages 17 to 35, were interviewed in this follow-up to Golombok et al.'s (1983) study of children raised in divorced lesbian mother or divorced heterosexual mother families. In this generally well-adjusted sample, young men and women who were raised by lesbian mothers were no more likely than those raised by heterosexual mothers to experience depression or anxiety. Adult children from lesbian mother families were also no more likely than those from other families to have sought professional help for psychiatric problems. They reported having close friendships during adolescence and were no more likely to remember peer group hostility than were those from other families. Offspring of lesbian mothers were also no more likely to report same-sex sexual attraction or a gay, lesbian, or bisexual identity than were those from heterosexual families. They were, however, more likely to have considered a gay or lesbian relationship as a possibility for themselves and to have been involved in a same-sex relationship, suggesting that although sexual attraction and identity may not be related to parental sexual orientation, the likelihood of considering or entering a same-sex relationship may be associated with parents' sexual orientation.” p. 1887
I'd be interested in reading any studies that contradict this finding.
Here's one that's taking "issue with 20 years of research conclusions that say there are no differences, two University of California sociologists recently re-examined data from 21 studies on gay parenting dating back to 1980. "
http://www.narth.com/docs/does.html
If you speak spanish you can also check out this one.
http://www.fides.org/spa/approfondire/2005/spagna_noesigual.html
And in all likely hood you'll eventually be directed to
http://www.drtraycehansen.com/Pages/writings_legalizing.html
which is bad because the homosexual lifestyle carries the inherent risks listed in this report.
http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS04C02
"the homosexual lifestyle carries the inherent risks"
What exactly *is* the "homosexual lifestyle" anyway? I am gay and I'm in a committed relationship. most days, I go home from work, have dinner with my wife while we talk about what happened during our respective work days. We feed our 2 dogs, watch TV and go to bed. That does not sounds like a risky "lifestyle" to me.
Most gay people are ordinary people who live ordinary lives and don't engage in risky sexual activity, despite the negative image the anti-gay lobby tries to perpetuate.
Thank you for the sources. Anyway, I won't contest whether or not a child raised by two parents will be more prone to exploring homosexual relationships. I will contest, however, whether or not that link from the FRC is representative of the truth.
But I'm already discussing that with you here: http://www.opposingviews.com/comments/dangerous-behavior ^ ^''
You're welcome. If you have any I'd like to see them. The great thing about debate is hearing new ideas it's great to see someone can do it civilly.
"Few gay people have had the pleasure of knowing a smooth, controversy-free life."
Yeah...and...who hasn't? Look at the stigma against women who sleep around vs. men who sleep around. Or the stigma against young men who choose NOT to sleep around. In every walk of life, especially concerning personal stuff like sexual choices, all of us are surrounded by judgmental idiots. Gays are not unique in their controversy-riddled existence . Good grief.
>. But we still come out because the pain of living a lie is in many ways worse than the pain of abandonment.
>Why would so many of us make this "choice" if we didn't have to?
Because it is fun?
The sex drive is extremely compelling. A view by some psychologists suggested that the powerful force behind it was the motivation for all productivity. It was also suggested that the benefits of this energy often drove ore productivity when sublimated.
I had a gay brother in law (now deceased). When he "came out" it had very little effect on my opinions of him or interactions with him. He had been married. We cared for his two children through their high school years. Neither of them is gay.
When he passed away the obituary emphasized that it was lung cancer he died from and not aids.
Since I respect the overwhelming power of the sex drive and what it can make one do I tend to analyze the idea that all species have gays a bit differently. It is not so much a matter of being born with a"different orientation" but rather a matter of opportunism. For instance there are males of all species that will screw anything that holds still for them! It is only a small step from this to men being with men because the opportunity exists or is considered a "better" or "easier" way to get "satisfaction", and you don't need to adjust to the differences (foibles) of "the other sex".
Other than that I do believe one can control their own destiny to a very, very considerable extent- so even with any underlying "orientation" toward being gay one could resist it,
Hal 84
It is this fact that led me to the logical conclusion that being Gay is generally not a choice. The ones that make a choice are the few, especially women from my experience, that enjoy sexual experimentation. They are the exception and don't truly classify as Gay IMO.