Experts and users discuss firearms, gun rights, guns, society: A Nation Without Weapons, Crime and Hatred is Not a Realistic Goal
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A Nation Without Weapons, Crime and Hatred is Not a Realistic Goal
- From Second Amendment Sisters
By Second Amendment Sisters - Self Defense is a Basic Human Right
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Oh really? Only in America. Try moving to the UK!
Ummm, I don't suppose it cuts any ice with you that the most civilized societies in the world ARE managing to live without guns? Your logic is flawed and pre-historic. You have more murders in one day in this country than most of Europe in its entirety in a month! The UK police force still manages to work without guns - and guess what - sky hasn't fallen in - and we're very safe than you very much. Only in America... yep, only in America. Get a grip!
See: http://stoptheworldiwannagetoff.com/2008/06/27/repeal-the-2nd-amendment /
- ukmarcus
September 3, 2008 5:28PM
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Indeed?
Does the name 'Jean-Charles de Menezes' ring a bell? No? How about 'Operation Kratos'? Not that either? How about the Iranian embassy siege?
- sandcrystal September 3, 2008 10:10PM
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History lesson
Yes, thanks, well aware... you have to go back some time though to find these isolated incidents eh? A price we're willing to pay to live without guns. If I want to find out the latest school shooting in the U.S. though I'd have to go back all of, um, wait about 5 minutes?
- ukmarcus
September 4, 2008 11:04AM
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History lesson two
I have to go back to yesterdays newspaper to see the violence carried out for example in Mexico, Canada, Brazil,Africa, Iraq, Iran, Georgia etc etc etc by the governments you people so like to love. Your price is to be a peon of the state, subject to every whim of the people in power. No thank you. I and a lot of other people want to live in freedom. The Swiss have a system where every able male has an automatic rifle and ammunition in their house and the Swiss doen't have a tidle wave of shooting crazies. Crime has very nothing to do with guns and a lot to do with the social system to handle conflicts and reduce conflict when it starts. Sadly, the American system is based on a long drawn out process of law which doesn't act proactively has many other flaws that hopefully will be fixed.
- comensense25
September 4, 2008 2:02PM
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UK safer for whom?
If I remember correctly about 60 years ago civilized Europe started WWII. In england good old Winston was asking for volunters to stand on the beaches with pitchforks. Resulting dead of that war 100,000.000. Back in Clintons time much closer to 2008 for the technie people civilized Europe watched and went tisk tisk as the Serbs butchered perhaps 200.000 more. Against that background I don't think Europe or England has much to say to America. The one excepttion is Switzerland where every male over 18 that is fit has and knows how to use an automatic rifle and has ammunition in his closet. Last I checked the Swiss were not having a huge crime wave of gun wielding crazies.
We have guns to protect not against crime but to protect the people from the state. England having no written constitutional rights for its citizens and the people having lost their rights to carry arms, the same rights we had in 1776, could make a law tomorrow to kill any undesirable. Which is what the Nazi masters did. They first took away the guns and than eliminated their undesirables. Can't happen in England? Perhaps not but a lot of English gentlemen thought Adolt was on the right track back before 1938. Remember also boys and girls a well run police state has very little violent crime, North Korea comes to mind as a perfect modern example. Protection from criminals is just a freebee as protection from the state makes the politicians nervous.
- comensense25
September 3, 2008 11:37PM
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Let's burn witches too... I'd feel safer then.
Fair point I guess. Sad though that you have to live like cowboys to feel safe. This 'seige' mentality will ultimately get you nowhere I feel. The French managed to have a revolution without a second amendment and this line of thinking will never move your society forward. So sure, keep your guns and your death penalty, and out of control society like the US obviously needs both. When you're ready to join the rest of the first world let me know! (Although I feel the U.S. is sewing the seeds of it's own destruction and will probably implode from within in the next 100-150 years?) Luckily there are states in the north east that are more akin to European of thinking. You know, the trouble with the gun lobby and the death penalty addicts is that most of them are in the south - which also wanted to fight for keeping slavery. Weird, huh? My guess is that this debate can still be drawn along the north - south divide.
- ukmarcus
September 4, 2008 11:03AM
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Lets get real
This isn't a debate about a north south divide or your other ad homem arguments. Europe has a history of governments killing people that is very current, remember the serbs? remember the French revolution in the 1950's over Algeria? remember England in Malasia? As to your tranquil vision of europe, what about the Moslem riots in France and England and the bombings in those countries and Spain. The problem with europe is the present power structure doesn't want or doesn't know how to integrate people of different backgrounds so you have a vast underground of unemployed youth which will explode. Perhaps thats why europe wants to disarm everybody. Makes the politicians nervous. America in contrast is a nation of minorities all mixing up and making something new sometimes the result is good and sometimes bad but we keep trying. We will be here long after europe is a footnote in history.
- comensense25
September 4, 2008 2:16PM
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England
Problem there is, if you defend yourself they will throw YOU in jail!!!
Gun doesn't do you much good there. That would get you a murder sentence for defending yourself.
- Nightowl22
December 12, 2008 9:19PM
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Try moving to Northern Ireland
The problem for you UK folks is your short memories about government power and how its used by those in power. Remember the Iris troubles, bombing, killing, revenge bombing and killing, the army and police shooting left and right that went on for 50 years or more. You lost several famous statesmen and plenty of people who just wanted to go about their lawfull business. The police went in for no trial detention, shoot the bastards policies and bang their heads law enforcement which didn't work very well. The troubles finnally stopped when the government started paying attention to the causes of the rebellion which lasted into the 1990's. Finnally, I suspose using your logic the Swiss aren't civilized as each male keeps his gun and amunition at home. I respect England I just think you people have taken a wrong track.
- comensense25
September 4, 2008 2:34PM
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