A Medically Documented Case of an Irrational Outcome
Allow me to describe an example of the healing power of prayer in one of my patients that will better illustrate my belief.
I examined a 24-year-old young man a few years ago who was diagnosed with either an osteosarcoma, or an aggressive high grade lymphoma which had “eaten” through his shoulder blade into the bone in his upper arm, thus destroying his shoulder joint. The presence of this large and fast-growing tumor was confirmed by x-rays, and an MRI, as well as through clinical tests. No less than three physicians agreed that this was a “nasty” cancer and something had to be done right away.
As a family practitioner, I really had nothing more medically to offer this young man except the power of prayer. I prayed with the man. I asked my family members to join me in praying for him. I made a referral to a nationally known orthopedic oncologist in New York City, who by the way agreed with the diagnosis of the other three specialists. He scheduled a biopsy to confirm the presence of what he felt certain was an aggressive lymphoma. “I’ve seen cases like these a few hundred times and it’s always a lymphoma,” he told me with utmost certainty.
The next afternoon, I received a startled call from that renowned orthopedic oncologist. He had attempted to confirm his diagnosis through biopsy, but found no tumor. There was only a bunch of burned out looking cells,” he told me in disbelief. He added that he had no idea what to make of this and asked me to schedule a PET scan. That led to a lymph node biopsy, both of which showed that the cancer had disappeared. When I reported the results to the expert and asked him what he thought had happened, he paused and said quietly, “I think it’s a miracle.”
And what became of that 24-year-old cancer patient with the large, aggressive high-grade lymphoma destroying his shoulder joint? He’s now playing softball and bowling in his spare time and raising two young children who were born after his diagnosis. He is in excellent health today, living without a trace of disease.
Perhaps you read my story about the healing power of prayer with a healthy skepticism. You might say that, given the limited state of our medical knowledge, along with the natural history of lymphoma, and the limitations of our imaging technology, that the patient never had a tumor in the first place. Maybe you’re right. Maybe we just don’t know as much as we think we do about such matters. You may recall that, Sir William Osler, a father, of modern medicine, is said to have remarked: “Half of what I learned in medical school turned out to be false. The only problem is, I don’t know which half.”
I have presented this medically documented case of an extraordinarily, irrational outcome. I choose to call it a miracle.
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Just another example of many, many cases of the Healing power of prayer . God is irrational by man's standard. Faith is letting go of the five senses and stepping into the illogical, foolish, and irrational realm of the supernatural power of God. This is how God works best. Man's limited brain, which is finite and uses reasoning and logic, can not understand the unlimited, infinite power and wisdon of God except through faith. Faith always works the opposite of how the human mind thinks. God and faith,in all honesty, doesn't have to make sense to those who do not believe. But once you accept this and move beyond your limited scope of rationalization,then things will began to make sense. Faith can not be grasped with ordinary senses.
I could not say it any better.Right on!
Well, I for one am grateful for those who've spent the energy , time and resources to learn how to help others. I appreciate what those honest and sincere folks do in the medical field.
However, none of them come close to Godhood.
I believe we need to have Doctors, but they can't measure up to God.
So, I depend on God first and let the Doctors try as best they can.
But what about you atheist? Who will you hope in and depend on? When the doctors ' fail, and many will and do, then who will you go to? Hmmm.
I've seen and heard of many miracles, and if you have any ounce of truthfulness in you then you'll find enough evidence to validate that prayer works and miracles do happen.
Anyone who is foolish enough to continue to ignore amount of facts out there is simply that, foolish.
"I believe we need to have Doctors, but they can't measure up to God. "
So you can clearly demonstrate cases where God has healed the sick or injured... objective instances that can be independently verified?
"Anyone who is foolish enough to continue to ignore amount of facts out there is simply that, foolish."
Then provide your facts, clearly showing cases of divine intervention.
In fact, on the day I posted this we had a member of my church give a very good testimony of the healing power of prayer over her own daughter. Her daughter was said to have expected to die due to a kidney illness that, at the time was incurable.
A man from their church prayed over her daughter the night her daughter was on her death bed; by the way, this lady is a retired nurse now and recognized the signs of death. She is a very credible witness. She was expecting to say goodbye to her daughter and lose her overnight, but by the next morning the little girl was up and bouncing around. During the time, nobody just recovered from the form of kidney illness this girl had. {Sorry, I don't recall the name of her illness, but doctors several years later have developed methods to prevent people from dying from this illness.}
They also have x-rays of the daughter's kidneys before and about 18 or so years after. The same doctor who took the original x-rays was still working at the same hospital, of which the daughter had become a nurse at too, and so the doctor couldn't believe it and had the second x-rays taken of her while she was now an adult. The x-rays didn't show an signs of the kidney's past condition.
So, least it to say, the daughter immediately recovered the next day she was prayed for. She is still alive today in to her late 30's or so, with no need for medication to treat her diagnosed condition.
There are all kinds of similar testimonies all over the country today. Just find yourself a miracle believing church and ask the church leaders to provide you with it's cases of people who have experienced miracles.
You do the research for yourself!
God Bless you in your search....
Michael
When my son got cancer his entire school prayed every school day for three years. He died anyway. I believe prayer can heal. But how do you explain when it doesn't?
You provide a case that is anecdotal at best... can you point to any medical documentation of this incident?
As the late, great, Carl Sagan said... "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".
MrBook,
You're not listening. I find this so typical when people just don't want to believe. I told you they have evidence and I know my friend who told this story is a reliable witness; least to say, that there ARE many verifiable cases across America.
You need to get out there and do as I suggested, find some Christian churches that confess in prayer and miracles and ask them for the evidence.
If you choose to ignore my suggestion then that's your issue. I know what I've seen and believe so whether or not you can is ultimately on your own shoulders. I've shared my testimony but you refuse to receive it.
By the way, Carl Sagan's book that they made into a movie, "Contact", has just this very same "belief" vs "facts" issues in it. Maybe you should watch it and meditate on its deeper points. I'd have to say that even for an atheist like Carl, God still used him to make a case for belief in what others can't see.
“You're not listening. I find this so typical when people just don't want to believe. I told you they have evidence and I know my friend who told this story is a reliable witness; least to say, that there ARE many verifiable cases across America.”
It is not that I do not want to believe… it is that I have seen no evidence that would lead me to that belief. I am not calling your friend a liar, only stating that such testimony is by its very nature suspect. Your friend may be exaggerating, consciously or unconsciously, the role that prayer played in the recovery of their daughter. That is why strict review is needed in such cases.
Consider… If I said that I had the flu, but after praying for two weeks I recovered. Was it the prayer that healed me or did I recover from it just as I would if I had not been praying?
“You need to get out there and do as I suggested, find some Christian churches that confess in prayer and miracles and ask them for the evidence. “
I would, but you would be surprised at how many people get upset when you start asking questions about what medical care their loved one was undergoing or asking about those people who had prayed but their loved ones had not gotten better.
“If you choose to ignore my suggestion then that's your issue. I know what I've seen and believe so whether or not you can is ultimately on your own shoulders. I've shared my testimony but you refuse to receive it.”
It is not that I ‘refuse to receive it’… I am just looking at your claims critically.
“By the way, Carl Sagan's book that they made into a movie, "Contact", has just this very same "belief" vs "facts" issues in it. Maybe you should watch it and meditate on its deeper points. I'd have to say that even for an atheist like Carl, God still used him to make a case for belief in what others can't see.”
The movie was more about Science and Religion co-existing… a stand that I have always had some trouble reconciling. At the end of the movies it is not made clear that the aliens did (or did not) exist. The lesson was less ‘the aliens were real, but nobody believed her’ but rather ‘there was no conclusive proof that the aliens were real’… their existence did not reach the level of Scientific proof.
Michael, you are the one making a claim about evidence that you can't produce. The rules of logic dictate that the one making a claim has the burden of proof. If you can't produce tangible evidence for your position, there's no reason any of us should believe it.
Sorry, I said Carl Sagan was an atheist, when in fact he truthfully denied this but said he was an agnostic simply because of the fact than no human can be a true atheist (which is right) because he/she would have to know everything about the cosmos to make such an extraordinary claim.
While it is true that the absolute statement 'There is no God' is not logically or Scientifically sound, one can still be an atheist.
If an individual does not believe in a deity, but feels that it may be possible or that there is some evidence for a deity to exist is agnostic.
If an individual does not believe in a deity and does not see any evidence for one to exist (or has no concept of a deity / religion ) then one is an atheist.
That's just scary.
I'm sorry but logically prayer makes zero sense.
I'll copy the best argument against prayer I've heard, since I can't possibly put it better and the author deserves credit, not me. But I am curious how this so-called expert can explain the logic of prayer. Or will he claim his God doesn't deal in that silly logic stuff?
http://bridgingschisms.org/2008/06/an-offer-of-prayer /
Assumption (1). The patient currently has a medical problem.
Assumption (2). Praying for the patient to be healed can cause miraculous healing of that patient.
Assumption (3). The god to whom the prayer to heal the patient is directed :-
a) Exists;
b) Is all-powerful (omnipotent);
c) Is all-knowing (omniscient);
d) Has perfect judgement;
e) Will only do what is right;
Conclusion (4). An omnipotent being would be able to heal the patient (from 3a, 3b);
Conclusion (5). An omniscient being would already know about the patient’s problem. (from 1, 3a, 3c);
Conclusion (6). Any patient whom the god deems it right to heal will already be healed. (from 3d, 3e, 4, 5)
Conclusion (7). It is not right to heal the patient (from 1, 6).
Conclusion (8). Praying for the patient to heal will not cause miraculous healing of that patient (from 6, 7)
Contradiction : ( 2 & 8 )
...that the being is omnipotent and omniscient in the first place, yes.
However, imagine a god that is omnipotent. Would the god be able to create something that he could destroy? If so, he cannot destroy it, and therefore he is not omnipotent. If not, he cannot create it, and therefore he is not omnipotent.
The same thing applies to omniscience. Could this god be able to create a machine whose inner workings he cannot understand? If so, then he is not omniscient, because he cannot see the inner workings of the mechanism. If not, then he is not omniscient, because there exist a concept which he cannot create.
A god cannot, by logical definitions, be omnipotent or omniscient, therefore (ironically) conclusions 4 and 5 cannot hold by logical definitions. Thus, any subsequent conclusions drawn using conclusions 4 and 5 as a basis are falsified as well.
The argument does not stand because no god is omnipotent and omniscient.
This statement is false.
If the above statement is true, everything asserted in it must be true. However, because the statement asserts that it is itself false, it must be false. So the hypothesis that it is true leads to the contradiction that it is false. Yet the sentence cannot be false for that hypothesis also leads to contradiction. If the statement is false, then what it says about itself is not true. It says that it is false, so that must not be true. Hence, it is true.
Under either hypothesis, the statement is both true and false. Yet....that doesn't disprove the fact that such a statement exists. Paradoxes of nature and science exist everywhere, yet they continue to exist despite being technically illogical. I.E, Carroll's paradox, Denny's Paradox, Hardy's paradox, and so on.
While your paradoxes are mildly amusing, they prove nothing. Even the ancient scientists refused to use paradoxes to prove/disprove laws of science because they knew that paradoxes cannot give a consistent outcome of truth. Get with the bloody program.
"Get with the bloody program."
Wow. There's really no need to be so livid about something like this. I mean, I was going to thank you for pointing out those interesting paradoxes, but dang. o.O
Anyway, you're right, illogical things happen in nature. It's just an argument I was toying with (see: which "side" I'm on), and it's always nice to get feedback on it.
You're right, I'm so sorry. I know it's no excuse, I just had a really awful day and was jonesing for a fight. There's nothing wrong with your thinking, and even if I disagreed with what you wrote - it's still not right of me to belittle your thoughts.
What evidence do you have that your praying and the healing are in any way connected, or are you just assuming one resulted in the other? Please be specific.